From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Jun 4 13:19:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05664 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:19:12 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id NAA29266 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:08:18 -0500 Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:08:18 -0500 Message-Id: <199806041808.NAA29266@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #807 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, June 4 1998 Volume 01 : Number 807 In this digest: Re: IN> supporting cast Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP RE: IN> Christopher, Zadkiel, Others (was Bright Lilim character creation) IN> Plot device IN> Update--The Death of Michael and beyond! Re: IN> The Question of the Celestial Tongue Re: IN> Movie Trailer: [Jurassic Parkish...] Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP Re: IN> Placing credit Re: IN> Arthurian legend and other questions Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP IN> Summonable Feature Did someone say crib death? (was Re: IN> Role Levels) Re: IN> Christopher, Zadkiel, Others (was Bright Lilim character creation) IN> Arthurian legend and other questions Re: IN> Placing credit Re: IN> supporting cast Re: IN> supporting cast Re: IN> Summonable Feature Re: IN> Summonable Feature Re: IN> supporting cast Re: IN> Summonable Feature Re: IN> Plot device Re: IN> Choirness question IN> Undead and Celestial realm (Re: supporting cast) Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP Re: IN> The Hottest Computer.. plus a question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 19:37:26 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> supporting cast At 3:07 PM -0700 6/3/98, Gerry Mckelvey wrote: >Can someone who is turned into a mummy/vampire ever be put back to normal? >(presuming they want to be that is...) If the GM permits. It would probably be nothing *trivial*, though! >I know it's possible to turn an unwilling person into a vampire (liber >reliquarium had that coffin of undeath thingie that could do it...) so how >would the angles react to one of thier servants getting vamped against >thier will? Could one of the undead work for the good guys? As the GM wills... (Angels would probably be horrified if one of their friends got vamped nonconsensually. [They'd probably be PO'ed if it were consensual...]) Vampires have free will -- one might even decide to 'go Renegade'... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 19:37:14 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP At 8:02 PM +0100 6/3/98, Jo Hart wrote: >At 13:38 03/06/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Earl Wajenberg wrote: >>> Lilith makes occasional deals with Archangels, right? Suppose >>> an Archangel asked for a Lilim. [...] >IMO even if she wanted to, Lilith can't do made-to-order lilim for >archangels. She is a demon. She can't make bright daughters any more than >any of the demon princes can make angels. I guess maybe if she could get >forces from the AAs she could make a free that might tend to go bright, but >what archangel would actually donate its forces into creating a -demon- >which is going to be born in the pit and may never escape, especially if >the Game have anything to do with it. If they want to recruit lilim its >probably more sensible to keep a look out for renegades and send angels out >to convert them. Also, per the IPG, the Lilim not only is created demonic, proto-Bright at best, but may *still* choose Freedom. Or to bind to a Prince, then or later. So now Michael has this tactical genius running around loose, who may or may not decide to work for... Baal. Owch. Even worse -- what if somehow the AA and Lilith managed to trust each other enough to actually joint-create the Lilim. If it's possible (NIMG*), redeeming it as it's created. Does any AA want to give Lilith the possible knowledge of how to create Brights? Free Brights who owe Mom the usual Geases? Who can get to Heaven by following another angel, probably, or going up a Tether? Who can spy...? (Now, I re-iterate the 'in your game whatever you want happens' stuff.) (And I do want to say that Redneck's notion of Price is quite possibly spot-on. And hysterically funny.) (Regarding the Celestial Soap Opera fluff we've been doing -- the Heavenborn were created with 8 AA Forces *fresh from the AA*, during the process, and 1 Lilith Force. And they came out nominally demonic. Green and horned and all. And she ain't never going to use fresh Seraph Forces again. That was *too* weird.) (* Not In My Game.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:34:57 -0700 From: "Steven Feldon (Exchange)" Subject: RE: IN> Christopher, Zadkiel, Others (was Bright Lilim character creation) While I haven't done as much work on it as I should have recently--the last upload is a month out of date, and none of the construction promised in the home page has been done, the INdex (formally, the In Nomine Character Encyclopedia) could have answered all of these questions, other than the minorness/majorness of the Superiors. It's at http://www.serv.net/~srf/index/. For some reason, that trailing slash appears to be important--my apologies for the pickiness. The pages under construction should be done in the next month or two. The main list already includes everything but the last two Pyramid articles. steve > -----Original Message----- > From: Elizabeth McCoy [SMTP:emccoy@nh.ultranet.com] > Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 1998 4:27 PM > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Subject: IN> Christopher, Zadkiel, Others (was Bright Lilim character > creation) > > At 2:03 PM -0700 6/3/98, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: > > who *are* Christopher > >and Zadkiel, though? i've seen mention of Christopher in the APG, and > i'm > >still looking for a more detailed write-up on him. > > Christopher, Cherub AA of Children, is in Night Music. He is a minor > Superior. > Fleurity, Habbalite DP of Drugs, is also there. Also minor. > > Zadkiel, Cherub AA of Protection, is in Heaven & Hell. She is minor. > Mammon, Balseraph DP of Greed, is in Heaven & Hell. Minor, interestingly. > > Magog, Shedite DP of Cruelty, will be in... Final Trumpet. > Khalid, Elohite AA of Faith, will be in FT. > > Litheroy, Seraph AA of Revelation, is in GMPack adventure, Feast of > Blades. > Alaemon, Impudite DP of Secrets, is there too. > > > --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor > GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 16:47:51 PDT From: "Peter Martin" Subject: IN> Plot device I've been working for a while on The Angel of Vigilantes (A servitor of Dominic who previously served pretty much every Archangel at one time or another.) No, He's not a Malakim. He's the most optimized combat machine I could cook up with power of GM (unlimited... Geez, I love my job.) Here's what I came up with for attumements (the rest you can fill in as you see fit, he's not finalized.) Name: Eltaar Choir: Ofanite 6 of each force, all characteristics at 12 Attunements/distinctions: Ofanim of David Malakim of David Kyriotate of David Ofanim of Dominic Incarnate Law Heavenly Judgment Vassal Of Conscience Friend of Judgment Master of Law Malakim of Eli Abracadabra Ofanim of Gabriel Malakim of Gabriel Smite Ofanim of Janus Vassal of the Wind Friend of the Unseen Master of Motion Swipe Ofanim of Laurence Kyriotate of Laurence Blade Blessing of Laurence Hunt Scabbard Ofanim of Michael Malakim of Michael Kyriotate of Michael Ofanim of Yves Kyriotate of Yves Malakim of Yves Vassal of Destiny Friend of the Sages Master of Divine Knowledge (Kyriotate resonance) Malakim of Litheroy This dude makes a nice plot device to smack Demon groups that get too cocky into line with. Once they get stalked by a small gang of statues armed with smite, scabbard (and hence, a small arsenal) and The ability to move at unbelievable speed and walk through walls, they start to get paranoid. Also an interesting side note: It's the ATTUMEMENTS, not the RESONANCE of Malakim that makes the combat machines. Ofanim and Kyriotates are much better suited to battle. A kyriotate can be a whole squad, and an ofanite is a pretty poor target, moving so fast and all. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:34:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: IN> Update--The Death of Michael and beyond! Michael is dead. Gabriel has gone deeper into her insanity, and has sounded her trumpet. One more blow of the horn, and Armageddon Starts. The Orphans of Michael have founded the 13th Celestial Cavalry. The engines of their cycles simultaneously roared into life, creating a Tether for many Archangels as long as the group is together. This, naturally, causes concern for many Infernals, so they plot anew. A Demon Princess has revealed the future to an Orphan Malakite of War...and he remains silent as to the details of the prophecy. A temporary Cease Fire has been established by Baal, in honor of his fallen foe. Four days remain into the truce. Armageddon awaits, and the Orphans of War ready themselves for the final battle. None mention how difficult it will be to win without Heaven's best Soldier. Michael is dead. But his Word lives on. Graveyard Greg, Malakite of Creation _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:44:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> The Question of the Celestial Tongue - ---Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > (And had solved it several moons ago, actually... O:> When > things conflict, check errata for each book where it conflicts. > If it still conflicts, then ask me about it or report it as > errata, and I will happily bop over and flog it into something > that makes sense.) Huh. Must've been updated the day AFTER I looked at it, because I didn't see it. And I, too, will burn candles at the alter of the Second Edition. Not TOO close, though, mind you--paper burns so easily... Graveyard Greg, Malakite of Creation The Reliquary: http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/everquest/46/ _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 18:14:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Movie Trailer: [Jurassic Parkish...] - ---Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > [Disclaimer: I haven't seen Lost World, and it's been a while since I saw > the original... However. My own sequal. (I'm taking a few liberties with > attunements, but why should Fire have *all* the smiting fun, eh?)] > > fade to black, title comes up <> > How about...DINOS FROM HELL: JURRASIC PARK 2 LOL! I couldn't resist! Graveyard Greg, who will wait for the novel _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 18:35:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP - ----=|horsefly|=- wrote: > i like it. i REALLY like it! it reminds me of the section in the > APG on Angelic Reproduction, especially the few lines pertaining to > environment shaping the angelic child's choice of race--angelic or > demonic, depending on with whom s/he consorts. question: the angels > created with the Song of (dang, i'm blanking here--the one the Grigori > didn't even need Fruition, bubba. The Song is Fruition Graveyard Greg, Malakite of Creation _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:38:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Placing credit On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Walter Milliken wrote: > BTW, Word Forces may appear in canon -- I'm doing some stuff on Tethers > where they help solve some problems in explaining how Seneschals and > Tethers work. I don't know if the idea will pass the Seraphim Council, > though.... The main problem is that adding them now will require > errata'ing all the prior published Word-bound characters. Nah. Just release a general errata, along the lines of "All previously written word-bound characters are assumed to have Word Forces equivalent to approximately one-third their total (written) Forces. The GM may adjust this where appropriate, of course." Then write up a short list of important NPCs who have significantly more/fewer WForces. > If this goes through, Superiors will probably have *lots* of Word Forces > (probably a low of about 20 up to maybe 100-200 for the most powerful > Superiors) -- the current (early) draft requires every Tether have at > least one Force invested in it by the Superior who owns it. And it > looks like typical Superiors will have *lots* of Tethers. As I noted, > this may change when other people review it. That sounds good. Think you'll be letting us playtesters look at this one, this time? Since it'll probably not be part of the "plotline", it should be safe... Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! | "Fuck 'Em If They Can't Take A Joke is more than just a meaningless | | slogan; it's actually a pretty serious statement, and one that I hold | | true to, with a cream pie in one hand and a chainsaw in the other..." | | -- Me | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:43:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Arthurian legend and other questions On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Andrew Frades wrote: > Probably give the artifact the Concealed Weapon advantage (p.55 Liber > Reliquarum) and say it is concealed within the Shedite's celestial form (kind > of like Laurence's Scabbard attunement). If you don't have LR quick synopsis > of what the Concealed Weapon advantage does: +5 point cost, one essence > "hides" the weapon which can be drawn out for no cost, celestials can detect > the artifact on a perception roll with a 6 check digit. > There is a summonable advantage as well in LR but it is intended for > vehicles and other big stuff (definitely not for weapons), and causes > disturbance in the symphony when you use it. Untrue; there's no reason it can't be used for weapons. In fact, it specifically says that the base cost and disturbance are for SMALL (less than mansized) items! Larger items use the added costs (which also add to the disturbance). Think of it this way...all the Summonable feature is is the Concealed Weapon feature without any Essence cost and a little disturbance. (If he doesn't have the LR, it's +7 point cost, causes disturbance equal to the level of the artifact when summoned, no essence cost). Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! | "Fuck 'Em If They Can't Take A Joke is more than just a meaningless | | slogan; it's actually a pretty serious statement, and one that I hold | | true to, with a cream pie in one hand and a chainsaw in the other..." | | -- Me | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:48:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > I don't know that "Lilith creates only demons" is a big barrier > here, since a Bright is still a Lilim. That is, there doesn't > seem to be a change of nature on the same scale as that between > seraph and balseraph. You can't look at the celestial form and > see which side they're on. Actually, you can. The IPG goes into it. Bright Lilim lose the green and the horns. Instead they're surrounded by a soft pink aura. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! | "Fuck 'Em If They Can't Take A Joke is more than just a meaningless | | slogan; it's actually a pretty serious statement, and one that I hold | | true to, with a cream pie in one hand and a chainsaw in the other..." | | -- Me | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:00:09 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Summonable Feature >>>There is a summonable advantage as well in LR but it is intended for vehicles and other big stuff (definitely not for weapons)<<< That's not correct. The Summonable Feature is very appropriate for weapons. It costs more for vehicles and other big stuff, but any artifact can have it. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 21:50:59 -0700 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: Did someone say crib death? (was Re: IN> Role Levels) Walter Milliken wrote: > > I don't see why it couldn't be done, though it might not be commonly > done, for much the reason why you might prefer avoiding it. > > ---Walter Look how Kyriotates of Larry grab a vessel/role from a soldier who died in a meaningless way. Now think about this crib deaths Lilith still gets blamed for in some isolated parts of New York.(It's not her fault...crib deaths really don't give the same Freedom they used to what with adoption and all in much of the world) So perhaps with the help of Yves or Kronos, this same trick is pulled with infants for various Superiors, sliding a Celestial into place in such a way that they Symphony never misses a beat. Wham, pow...Role in the making. Just my personal idea, of course. Sean (stay tuned for Habbalah week!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 06:16:18 +0100 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Christopher, Zadkiel, Others (was Bright Lilim character creation) At 19:27 03/06/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Magog, Shedite DP of Cruelty, will be in... Final Trumpet. > Not a Habbalite? Wow. jo "Whatever was required to be done, the Circumlocution Office was before hand with all the public departments in the art of perceiving HOW NOT TO DO IT." -- Dickens (Little Dorrit) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 04:00:21 -0400 From: "Matthias Müller" Subject: IN> Arthurian legend and other questions Thanks for the advice, but maybe I should note that the campaign is taking place in present day GB, the demons are trying to follow the hints left from the legend. So while I'll of course do research for inspiration, it won't have to be overly realistic. I'm twisting things around already. Earl Wajenberg wrote: >I'm not aware of any Arthurian IN material, but one thing to >keep in mind is that Merlin is often supposed to be a >demon/human hybrid. That would be the IN equivalent of a first- >generation Child of the Grigori, though you could pick the choir. >(In one major version, he was the child of Lucifer, a failed attempt >at begetting the Antichrist.) Hmm, that's right, his mother was supposed to be a succubus. I was going to have his ghost show up, but that's likely to change now... Sam Kington wrote: >I would have thought Laurence would be very interested as >well - not only to prevent Baal getting his hands on a major artifact, >but also because, if anything goes to the heart of his Word, the most >famous sword ever probably does ;-). Oops, I really forgot about Laurence ! However, I wouldn't want to confront the poor demons with Sword-servitors early in the game. The Host finds out about all this only later, but then Michael should be even more interested than Baal, since Excalibur is a symbol for war, not just 'the war'. And also for lightning and the old lightning gods, which is why Jean just wants it to be left alone. Andrew Frades wrote (about the artifact sabre): >Probably give the artifact the Concealed Weapon advantage >(p.55 Liber Reliquarum) and say it is concealed within the > Shedite's celestial form (kind of like Laurence's Scabbard > attunement). Sounds good, thanks. And if that's to expensive for him, he'll just have to hand the thing down from host to host. > My understanding is that demons/angels can > automatically come to Earth if they wish, the problem is > getting a vessel which only a superior can give them. Well, it says that you end up near the place on Earth you've left from last time. So a celestial who's new to Earth needs a guide. It's not that relevant to my campaign, I just wondered who guided the first celestial. But then, Archangels are a different league. -Matthias Instant madness - just add brain ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:20:47 +0100 () From: "David.Evans" Subject: Re: IN> Placing credit Rev Pee Kitty sic scribit: > > On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Walter Milliken wrote: > [much stuff on Word forces snipped] > > If this goes through, Superiors will probably have *lots* of Word Forces > > (probably a low of about 20 up to maybe 100-200 for the most powerful > > Superiors) -- the current (early) draft requires every Tether have at > > least one Force invested in it by the Superior who owns it. And it > > looks like typical Superiors will have *lots* of Tethers. As I noted, > > this may change when other people review it. > > That sounds good. Think you'll be letting us playtesters look at this one, > this time? Since it'll probably not be part of the "plotline", it should > be safe... Need another playtester? :-) Be seeing you... David. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 10:13:09 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> supporting cast Andrew Frades wrote: > One little problem with all of this... When an undead dies he/she is > dead for good. No soul going on to its eternal reward/punishment, > nothing. The Undead's celestial forces are bound up into the > corporeal there is no soul to be loosed and thus no soul to save. Right. That's why I recommended "translation." This happens while you're alive. It is supposed to have happened to the pre-Flood patriarch Enoch, the prophet Elijah, and the resurrected (and hence no longer dead) Jesus. I think Catholics hold that translation, or something very like it, happened to Mary, too. It means going to Heaven while still in the body. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:50:28 -0700 From: "Gerry Mckelvey" Subject: Re: IN> supporting cast > Right. That's why I recommended "translation." This happens > while you're alive. It is supposed to have happened to the > pre-Flood patriarch Enoch, the prophet Elijah, and the resurrected > (and hence no longer dead) Jesus. I think Catholics hold that > translation, or something very like it, happened to Mary, too. > It means going to Heaven while still in the body. > > Earl that reminds me...according to the rulebooks (I don't remember where exactly..) it says that no mortal form or material could ascend (or descend, depending on where you're going) to the celestial realms with the possible exception being the marches. But, in the heaven/hell sourcebook, the pages talking about Saminga's realm states that the undead are all over the place there...and it makes a distinction between the damned souls and the undead...so, can the undead wander Hell in corporal form or do they 'translate' to a celestial analog? not that this is really important, I just have way too much free time on my hands... Jerry McKelvey Exitus Acta Probat. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 11:46:19 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Summonable Feature David Edelstein wrote: > > >>>There is a summonable advantage as well in LR but it is intended for > vehicles and other big stuff (definitely not for weapons)<<< > > That's not correct. The Summonable Feature is very appropriate for weapons. > It costs more for vehicles and other big stuff, but any artifact can have > it. David is exactly right. Plus there's a version of Summonable called 'concealed weapon' that has an interesting twist. It costs one point more, but you pay Essence when _concealing_ it, rather than when summoning it. If anyone wonders why Corporeal artifacts are cool, you can always point to the Summonable feature. It's astoundingly useful and flexible. I'm thinking about writing a vignette where a demon has built an amazing vehicle, but it's stuck in the cavern where he built it because it won't fit through the entrance! A great reason to have Summonable! ;) All those times when you _need_ something right now... well, there you go. Another thing that a GM might let you do is to make Summonable containers that continue to carry their contents. There should be a cost involved in this... +4 for a pouch-sized object up to +whatever for REALLY big things. This won't work on creatures and I'm not gonna work out the implications of time passage and food spoilage and whatnot, but you can see how useful this might be. Well, okay, I _will_ do it. ;) Non-Canon stuff follows, but it's kinda cool... =) Summonable Containers A Summonable object can be made a container for twice the price of the normal Summonable feature. Objects in the artifact will vanish with the container and reappear with it. No time will pass for the 'vanished' objects. Living creatures or other sentients within the artifact will either cause the attempt to vanish the container to fail or will leave the creature behind (at the whim of the GM). This _cannot_ be used to strip people of their clothes and possessions simply because they are sitting in a car that is vanished! The cost for a Summonable Container is based on the _largest_ thing it could contain. So a car cover (normally a +4 cost for Summonable) would cost +16 if it was a container (+8 for car-sized Summonable, and then doubled for the container aspect). - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 12:10:50 -0400 From: "Mark McKenzie" Subject: Re: IN> Summonable Feature Well, now I'm curious. Does this imply that a "summonable" or "concealable" gun (for example) moves, but any ammunition it contains doesn't? (Or, the amazing vehicle moves, but the fuel/floor mats/contents of ashtray doesn't; other examples will doubtless spring to mind). Kind of restricts the utility of some Summonable items, if so... John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > - -snip- > Another thing that a GM might let you do is > to make Summonable containers that continue to carry their > contents. There should be a cost involved in this... > +4 for a pouch-sized object up to +whatever for REALLY > big things. - -snip- - -- Mark McKenzie E-mail: markadv@kinekom.com ICQ 7946364 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 12:13:21 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> supporting cast Gerry Mckelvey wrote: > > > Right. That's why I recommended "translation." This happens > > while you're alive. It is supposed to have happened to the > > pre-Flood patriarch Enoch, the prophet Elijah, and the resurrected > > (and hence no longer dead) Jesus. I think Catholics hold that > > translation, or something very like it, happened to Mary, too. > > It means going to Heaven while still in the body. > > > > Earl > that reminds me...according to the rulebooks (I don't remember where > exactly..) it says that no mortal form or material could ascend (or > descend, depending on where you're going) to the celestial realms with the > possible exception being the marches. But, in the heaven/hell sourcebook, > the pages talking about Saminga's realm states that the undead are all over > the place there...and it makes a distinction between the damned souls and > the undead...so, can the undead wander Hell in corporal form or do they > 'translate' to a celestial analog? > not that this is really important, I just have way too much free time on my > hands... My guess is that Saminga has a special 'undead zone' in his realm that allows them to exist. Lord knows with the amount of Death in the world, he has Essence to blow. Possibly special servitors might get a new Attunement that allows them access to Hell? I don't like using the translation idea since this opens up all sorts of cans of worms. The 'zone' idea is self-limiting in that a)they can't leave the area and b)if his influence wanes, the zone will probably shrink or vanish altogether. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 12:55:11 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Summonable Feature Mark McKenzie wrote: > > Well, now I'm curious. Does this imply that a "summonable" or > "concealable" gun (for example) moves, but any ammunition it contains > doesn't? (Or, the amazing vehicle moves, but the fuel/floor > mats/contents of ashtray doesn't; other examples will doubtless spring > to mind). Kind of restricts the utility of some Summonable items, if > so... Rats. I forgot to mention that some things would be considered 'part' of the standard artifact. Fuel, ammo and car mats are included. Random stuff is not. The whole idea is non-canon, anyways, so I imagine that GM's will fudge for standard Summonable items. The problem with making Summonable items automatically as containers is the abuse problems that might occur. (The car cover-car is a good example of this.) OTOH, the intention was never to have a car vanish and leave its new coat of paint behind! Another abuse is that Summonable items become the perfect hiding place for things which is waaaaaay beyond what it was meant to do. For space reasons, I left this topic out of the Summonable description in LR (which was already the largest feature included) and just left it to GM perogative. So, things that can reasonably be considered part of an item (fuel in a vehicle's tank, ammo in the clip, fuzzy dice on the mirror) will vanish with the item. Other things (the body in the trunk, the gun's holster, a gas can sitting on TOP of the car) would not vanish with the standard Summonable feature. Of course, hard-nosed GMs might decide that fuel and ammo _don't_ count and you have to refuel or reload each time. This is valid, but not what was intended! ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 18:27:19 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Plot device On Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 04:47:51PM -0700, Peter Martin wrote: > paranoid. Also an interesting side note: It's the ATTUMEMENTS, not the > RESONANCE of Malakim that makes the combat machines. Ofanim and > Kyriotates are much better suited to battle. A kyriotate can be a whole > squad, and an ofanite is a pretty poor target, moving so fast and all. > Not just the attunements (in fact, for many of the attunements, I'd say not the attunements at all), more the attitude, I'd say. And I've said myself that the Malakite resonance is the least useful major angelic resonance in combat. The Mercurian resonance might allow them to pick up favourite tactics of the really combat obsessed. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 18:41:15 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Choirness question On Tue, Jun 02, 1998 at 07:18:19AM +0100, Jo Hart wrote: If they are quite young or quite new to the work then I don't > think they'd necessarily know that much about what attunements other > superiors grant, unless they'd either been specially briefed or had a > friend who worked for that superior, or if it was an especially well known > or noisy one (like Smite :) ). I tend to assume that people have been building up a database of the other side's powers for years. There are Falls and Redemptions, and Band and Choir attunements are fairly static, so that knowledge has been building up for a long while. So I don't see why angels wouldn't know that sort of thing, if they could be bothered to learn and remember it. I assumed that the stuff in the main book was common knowledge, and that most people knew that Calabim of Theft could blow up doors with their resonance easily (while Ofanim of the Wind have to kick them down, unless they want to run through them) and that Habbalah of Death were completely useless. I don't think this should apply to such as Arguments of Casuistry, or that Laurentine one that sucks up other people's dissonance. It will vary a lot for demons, though. Information is more expensive in Hell. Some attunements are more obvious, and thus more likely to be well-known than others, though. > This is partly because I do _not_ expect all players to memorise all > attunements. Even I don't do that! (except possibly if they are playing > seraphim of lightning). > Damn. I've memorised them all (except some of the ones in books I don't own). How can I get them out of my head? > I also suspect that superiors don't appreciate it if their servitors tell > too much about their internal organisation, including complete details of > all attunements, to other parties. Of course, hey don't have to find out :) I'd assume they wouldn't get too much about internal organisation, but attunements are different. They have a way of making themselves known. > But I'm a politics-junkie. I like it that people are keeping secrets from > each other and surprising each other from time to time with unexpected > allies or abilities. It keeps things fairly mysterious and allows each PC > to be an expert in its own superior's affairs (when compared to the > others). Unless players are looking at each other's character sheets, they don't know what Songs and skills the other person has, or whether they have spare Vessels, and the like. And just because Mithredath is a Seraph of the Wind doesn't mean she doesn't also have the Malakite of the Wind attunement, or any of 4 other Windy Choir attunements. > I'd also say that its quite feasible that angels wouldn't reveal their > choir/ superior to any old angel they meet. That gives infoprmation that > can be used to manipulate them, even by an ally. Some will (PCs tend to :) > ), It is expected though, I'd imagine. And putting on a show of openness can lead people away from questions they might ask if they had to drag your Choir and Superior out of you. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:59:42 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Undead and Celestial realm (Re: supporting cast) At 10:50 AM -0700 6/4/98, Gerry Mckelvey wrote: >But, in the heaven/hell sourcebook, >the pages talking about Saminga's realm states that the undead are all over >the place there...and it makes a distinction between the damned souls and >the undead... It does? I don't find this. It says undead are corporeal, and are made in the corporeal realm. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:52:38 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP At 9:48 PM -0400 6/3/98, Pee Kitty wrote: >On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > >> I don't know that "Lilith creates only demons" is a big barrier >> here, since a Bright is still a Lilim. That is, there doesn't >> seem to be a change of nature on the same scale as that between >> seraph and balseraph. You can't look at the celestial form and >> see which side they're on. > >Actually, you can. The IPG goes into it. Bright Lilim lose the green and >the horns. Instead they're surrounded by a soft pink aura. Only if they work for Novalis, or happen to be the Angel of Bubble Gum... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 18:52:31 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> The Hottest Computer.. plus a question On Tue, May 26, 1998 at 01:12:57PM -0400, John Karakash - LUCENT ASCC wrote: > > Firstly, nothing is said about what happens when the resistance roll has > > the same check digit as the resonance roll. In the general section on > > resistance, it's said that such a score can be considered a draw. Is it > > true that there is no result when this occurs? Can the Calabite refocus > > its resonance on that target? > > That's for a _Contest_. This is a simple resistance > roll. If the resistance roll succeeds (with any check digit) > then the damage bounces. Using the Calabim Resonance on > high Strength targets is NOT recommended! > I don't have the book in front of me, which is why I delayed replying to this for so long. (I'm more or less resigned to being without it for more months now.) However, I'm pretty sure that the Calabite resonance rules specifically state "resists with a higher check digit". Beyond that, I'm surprised by your mention of a simple resistance roll. I was under the impression that whenever the invoker of a power had to make a roll, that any applicable resistance was a contest, with the sole exception of the Balseraph resonance. Otherwise it's just too easy to make characters immune to mental assaults, and the Ethereal and Celestial Songs of Entropy become even less useful. > > Seventhly, what happens if a Calabite runs out of alternate targets? > > The Calabite can _always_ attack themselves and choose > to fail the resistance roll. Yeah, it stings like the mother, > but considering the alternatives... What I meant here was that the Calabite had failed the resonance roll on itself, the ground, and all its clothing. That seems implausible, but I suppose the answer is that the Calabite has to take the dissonance. WRT to targeting, what is defined as a single object? Is the wheel of a car a single object, or part of the car? Is the human eye? The handle of a door? Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #807 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.