From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Jul 31 16:27:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA31176 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:27:14 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id QAA32360 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:24:48 -0500 Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:24:48 -0500 Message-Id: <199807312124.QAA32360@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #889 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, July 31 1998 Volume 01 : Number 889 In this digest: Re: IN> IN- Lost Words? Re: IN> Your influences Re: IN> Roles and what happens if you get caught without one? Re: IN> IN- Lost Words? Re: IN> Lost Words? Re: IN> IN- Why not spread the Word (was RE: Roles and what todo...) IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #888 IN> Roles and what happens if you get caught without one? IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #888 IN> Lost Words? IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #887 Re: IN> IN- Lost Words? IN> Medieval Syncretism IN> Investigation Re: IN> Lost Words? IN> The Poker game IN> IN- Lost Words? IN> IN- Lost Words? Re: IN> Investigation ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:23:20 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> IN- Lost Words? Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, wrote: > I have to nitpick here. The Liberal Democrats are the linear > descendants of... Of course you have to nitpick. You're only defending your Word. I guessed wildly at the genealogy of the Whigs. > Glad you liked them. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:36:55 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Your influences BonBon wrote: > Where did you get your influences? By far the primary influence of the game is a pair of *other* roleplaying games, published in France, named "In Nomine Satanis" and "Magna Veritas." These inspired In Nomine, but there are lots of differences in detail and general aim. Other influences include the Talmud and Kaballah and general Judeo-Christian angel folklore. Lilith comes largely from a medieval work entitled "The Alphabet of Ben Sira." > However, I was wondering > whether or not you took other religious beliefs (such as Hinduism, > Buddhism, and Zoroastrianism) into account when making this game. "We" (the list members) did not make this game. The author is Derek Pearcy, who has seldom, if ever, posted to the list. In general, pagan gods and religious figures are supposed to be figures of the Ethereal Marches, the dreamworld, created and shaped by human desires, beliefs, and fancies. >     If you want my suggestion, I believe that it does God and your > diverse array of RPG gamers to go outside of the conventions of your > beliefs and explore options in other faiths and cultures besides your > own.  For example (just to make myself clear), just because Hindus do > not call angels angels does not mean that they don's believe in them > (if you look close enough, you will notice astonishing parallels > between the different systems; you just have to know where to look); > they simply call them by other names.  Gods (lowercase "g") and > spirits are often the labels attatched to them.  In other words, do > not become bogged down by the dogmatic labels of Judeo-Christian > faiths.  That's all.   This is called syncretism, which we have dabbled with, now and then, on the list. A Hindu "angel" is a "deva," isn't it? And a demon is an "asura," and in Zoroastrianism, the labels are reversed (unless I've reversed them myself). Given the way pagan figures are already consigned to the Marches, it's unlikely the published In Nomine materiel will ever do much with syncretism, but it can be an interesting imaginative exercise for list members or individual GMs. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:43:26 EDT From: Akumsa@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Roles and what happens if you get caught without one? >AS for investigating these roles and becoming suspicious, if Joe from >Montana get investigated in Washington D.C. for whatever reason, what are >the odds that the investigators will personally or by proxy investigate >his birth certificate, first grade teacher, old friends, distant >relatives? I do not think they would, unless he's being prosecuted for >some pretty serious things. Presumeably the Symphony has some way of adding an angels/demons corporeal form into itself. Kind of like Touched By an Angel. The player characters are in new places every week, and the symphony automatically adjusts by creating a history per say, whereby a whole bunch of random people in the area know the characters. And when the person leaves/dies, the symphony removes the memory of those persons from everyones mind. (ALA Stchoepa in the Final Episode of Quantum Leap, who jumped from place to place, saving peoples lives in his own body, and when he was done, no one would remember him.) Thats why I say a corporeal form fades away in time. It wont show up on video tapes or audio devices ect., because they are all part of the symphony. This solves a lot of problems. No investigators get curious, no records exist, ect. Soldiers of God, because of thier extra force, will remember any dead angels, because, like the angels, they are now players in the symphony. The real trick is this MAY not work for demons, since they no longer follow the *true* symphony. This also applies to Zombies, Vamps, Imps, ect. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 98 13:54 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> IN- Lost Words? >>Woe to the Angel of 8-tracks! > >He's off drinking with the Demon of Pet Rocks, at a little tavern run >jointly by the Angel of 78 RPM Records and the Demon of Telegraph >Delivery Boys. Who all now work for the Demon of Nostalgia.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:00:10 -0400 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: Re: IN> Lost Words? At 1:05 AM -0400 7/31/98, Doug Muir wrote: >Question. > >Is it ever possible for a Word-bound celestial to lose his or her Word? >Or to change it to another one? > >My initial reaction was "no". But... in that case, what happens to the >Word-bound whose Words have simply ceased to exist? Like the Angel of >Passenger Pigeons, or the Demon of Traditional Etruscan Drinking Songs? >Technological advances, social changes, wars and extinction can render >some Words obsolete or completely nonexistent. What happens to the >celestial then? They die. Or they waste away. And sometimes, they Fall before then. Demons whose Words cease to exist have short lifespans. It's part of the territory with Species words, the average species of animal's only around for three million years. With the advance of Human society, more and more words have become transient, so if you want a Word that's going to make you an Archangel, choose it carefully. > >Furthermore, it's canon that some of the Princes had their Words changed >when they fell (like Beleth going from Fear to Nightmare). So >obviously it can happen at least sometimes. When an angel Falls, he is stripped of the divine connections to his former Word, and can't access them any longer. The moment of Falling may strip a Celestial of a whole bunch of power. For this reason, Lucifer had to Re-Word them personally. No more Angels of Fear, Love, Laughter,or Fortitude, they became Demons first, and then Demons of Nightmares, Lust, Dark Humor, and Cruelty. > >Could a celestial have a Word stripped as punishment? Or "upgraded" as >a reward? Or changed to reflect equivalent changes in the Symphony? -- >Like the Demon of Cannon becoming the Demon of Artillery, say. Stripped is possible, apparently. Dominic's been recommending that be done to Eli for awhile. And yes, I suppose a Word can be uprgaded, but it's almost never done. After all, Novalis, though she apparently has dominion over all plant life, still remains the Angel of Flowers. (Which didn't show up until the cretaceous) Furfur attempted to convine Lucifer to change his Word, and fail. You expand the scope of your Word as much as you can, because once you've got one, you're pretty much stuck with it. This is why the Demon of Papercuts is so bitter. Hastily-Written Plot seed: Time to go. (Made-up Species follow) Ten thousand years ago on, a remote pacific island, a number of geckoes washed up upon the volcanic shores, and survived, and eventually, thrived. These reptiles took up a number of niches on the island, and lived there happily for quite some time. about two thousand years ago, the volcano erupted again, placing a divide across the island, turning one species (The Blue-Footed Lowland Tree Gecko) into two: The Blue-Fotted Lowland Tree Gecko, and the Spotted Highland Tree Gecko. The two species weren't all that different; the Spotted Highlands were only slightly better adapted for their habitat on the upper slopes of the volcano. Neverthe less, Kliss, an Elohite of Animals, volunteered for, and won the Word of Angel of the Spotted Highland Tree Gecko. Being animals, and so similar to one another, they shared some diseases: Cottonmouth, various parasites, and the blackscale virus among them. And all was fine until 1996. In 1996, something happened. Perhaps it was a chance cosmic ray, perhaps an error in replication, perhaps something else, but in 1994, a minor mutation in blackscale virus changed it from an inconvenience disease to a fatal one, for the Spotted Highland Tree Gecko. And what's worse, it became an epidemic. Within a few short years, it was set to drop the numbers of the Spotted Highlanders to dangerous levels. And with the Blue-Footed Lowlanders right there, it seemed like this would be the end of the Spotted Highlanders. Unfortunately, Kliss wasn't ready to let that happen. Slowly, but surely, he's becoming resolved to save the Spotted Highlanders, And he's aready started to act, organizing "Save the Highlanders" rallies, and sending out petitions, tyring to bringh the plight of the geckoes to the island's human population, perhaps setting up inovulstyion and breeding centers, to nurse the species back to health.. Three things lie in his path, though. First, it's a perfectly natural extinction. And as such, Jordi is opposed to stopping it. Extinction is part of the life cycle, and has been since the beginning.It happens, and if you're willing t go for a Word that will eventually die, you should expect it to happen. He'll take steps to stop this interference, if neccesary And as an Elohite, Kliss should know that. Second, Kliss is starting in on some dissonant behavior. His motives are a bit suspect He claims that it isn't a natural extinction, if he could only prove it... Ways to go with this... Jordi's Right. The exinction is natural, and Kliss shouldn't be stopping it. PC's could be given the dubious honor or stopping these rallies, pmphlets, and flyers, at the expense of looking completely environmentally ccallous, in an attempt to brig an Elohite to his senses (or his destruction) before he turns Habbalte. Kliss is right. The extinction isn't natural. Perhaps something in the air, or in the water hjas made the Spotted Highlanders more suceptible to blackscale, or perhaps it isn't blackscal at all. If Kliss can find the evidence, he can bring his Archangel onto his side, and perhaps, he won't fade away after all. It's a Conspiracy, I tell you! Someone deliberately engineered the change in the blackscale virusm with the intended result of Kliss turning against his Archangel and Falling. Perhaps it's someone from Kliss' past, who has a grudge agaisnt him. You never know what kind of enemies one makes on remote Pacific islands.... ===== ><{{"> =================================================== <"}}>< ====== Nana-Yaw "The Fish" Ofori, Freelance Soldier of Heck, presenty serving Santos, Habbalite Knight of Death, the Demon of Evolution in Action. nofori@pop3.utoledo.edu | Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~maltesh maltesh@usa.net | In Nomine: http://members.tripod.com/~maltesh/T317 ===== ><{{"> ============ "Life's a Fish, then you Fry." ======= <"}}>< ====== ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:48:11 -0700 From: "Akira" Subject: Re: IN> IN- Why not spread the Word (was RE: Roles and what todo...) Yossi wrote: > If people are raised to the belief that angels and demons are >just fairy tales, naturally they won't contemplate "doing the good >thing"; >but if they knew that demons and angels *are* out there, that their >actions >*are* counted, even if the local police didn't catch them breaking and >entering\shoplifting\vandalising\whatever, then they'll be prone to >contemplate their actions. I think this is why Celestials work in more subtle ways. The model for In-Nomine is our own world with a twist, so I haven't met any angels on a regular basis. Anyways, that's why celestials work towards placing moral guidelines, and lead by example and increase philosophical discussions etc... In your view, I would interpret it as everyone getting a first place ribbon for a race, even if they didn't finish. Infernals and Hell is_not_a_good_place_to_be. But Hell doesn't want you to know that.. So, that's why Impudites seem like your best friend but they're actually sucking your essence! Humans wouldn't really jive with 'em if they knew the truth. Shedites as well, they don't just crudely posses someone and make him do something bad. They rather breakdown that persons own morality bit by bit. The actions are still at heart, the humans sins! I'm sorta discussing this from an Angels viewpoint, mind you. Apparently the same questions are being figured out in Heaven. (Pg 18-19 Angelic guide). In summary I see it as a parent who is pleased with his childs decisions in life as opposed to being told what to do. Akira--- I don't know what I am I don't know where I've been human junk just words and so much skin stick my hands thru the cage of this endless routine just some flesh caught in this big broken machine - -NIN ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:28:07 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #888 Message text written by INTERNET:in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Another way to be a Come-Back Kid might be to get a new Word. Jordi probably has to face this regularly. "Okay, boss, I did good with the trilobites. Sorry I didn't get them through that last mass extinction, but you've always told us no species lasts forever, right? ('Course, you usually say it about Homo sapiens...) Anyway, got any openings? I've got a lot of background experience suitable for horseshoe crabs. Butterflies would be nice, though..."< Gabriel has always claimed when talking on the record that fossil records of trilobites were created with the world around 14 August 4004 BC. Adam ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:27:54 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> Roles and what happens if you get caught without one? Message text written by INTERNET:in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Or, maybe, somewhere in South Dakota, there is a small town that is run very quietly by angels and soldiers. Perhaps it is where a portion of the heavenly bureaucracy set up shop on earth. In addition to keeping records for other parts of the heaven's function, they answer the phone to say, "Sam Spade? Sure I've heard of him. Went to high school with him. Just a sec; I have to look in my files for that information." < IIRC In RL there is a town called Hell in the Grand Cayman Islands. Note however thetre are certain roles where the authorities expect no documentation. Illegal Immegrants and Refugees for example. Also in England you can have your birth certificate changed under certain circumstances [like changing your name by deed poll.]. I have two with different names. The more creative among you will work out what you can do with that. Adam ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:28:04 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #888 Message text written by INTERNET:in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >And what about Angels of cities, organizations, or political entities that no longer exist? The Demon of the Soviet Union might try to work for a comeback, but what about the Angels of Carthage, the Hanseatic League, or the Whig Party? < The Whig Party Still Exists. It was effectively a slang term for the Liberal Party in much the way that the Tory party was and is the Conservatives. Since angelic names seem to embody underlying concepts [in Angelic rather than english] rather than specific phrases [Se Novalis for an example] The Angel of the Whig Party [Now probably translated into engish ads the angel of the Liberal Democratic Party.] is still around and fine. Adam The Prince of the Game is incharge of the Great Game, is he also supported by our liking for this game? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:27:57 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> Lost Words? Message text written by INTERNET:in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > My initial reaction was "no". But... in that case, what happens to the Word-bound whose Words have simply ceased to exist? Like the Angel of Passenger Pigeons, or the Demon of Traditional Etruscan Drinking Songs? Technological advances, social changes, wars and extinction can render some Words obsolete or completely nonexistent. What happens to the celestial then? < They lose power and fade with their word like the Old one in Austin. The Angel of POassenger Pigeons is probably still around as the concept associated with her word is still resonant in some sections of humanity. Adam ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:28:01 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #887 Message text written by INTERNET:in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >A clear demonstration of the existence of demons would, of course, cause every rational thinking person to immediately change their ways and follow the straight and narrow path< Quickly followed by the American Government atempting an empirical experiment to discover the radiation and blast tolerances of demons. Adam "My Lord we have secured the city of dallas. The US army is in retreat and our beech head is se.".Boom. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 21:33:45 +0200 (MET DST) From: Jasper Reijer Floor Subject: Re: IN> IN- Lost Words? On Fri, 31 Jul 1998, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Jean's angels present the same thing, only faster. "Hello, I'm > Sariel, Angel of CDs, formerly Angel of 78s, formerly Angel of > Player-Piano Rolls. This is my friend Carenel, formerly Angel of > Phonograph Cyliners, then it was LPs wasn't it? now 8-tracks, but > he's got his eye on audio chips, don't you old fellow? We're a > sort of team, you see." My own personal take on the situation is that you are in trouble if your word dies. So don't apply for trivial words. I think the Seraphim council (or Lucifer) would allow trivial words just as an example to others. The problem with words is that you not only represent the word, you become the word. You think the word, you eat the word, you breathe the word. If your word dies, I'd let you live, a very miserable existance. Your power would be the same as that of a non-wordbound angel (demon), but you still have the need to be your word. Pathetic really. I'm not sure it's really kosher to change words, under these circumstances. It would be like having a heart transplant, while you were awake (unless you fall (are redeemed) which is painful enough as it is.) mvg, Jasper Floor Nothing is given so profusely as advice. Francis, Duc de La Rochefoucauld - Maxim 110 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:48:02 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Medieval Syncretism The recent post by BonBon re-introduced the idea of syncretism -- identifying figures from one mythology with those from another. It might interest some list members to know that medieval Christendom played a little with syncretism. They sometimes identified some pagan gods with angels, linking the two groups by astrology. In the medieval astronomy, there were seven planets circling the Earth -- Luna, Mercury, Venus, Sol, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn. (The sun and moon are planets in this system.) In the dominant view of the time, each planet was piloted by an Intelligence, an angelic spirit. Paganism, using the exact same astronomy, had assigned each planet as the property of one of the major gods. The identification of a planetary Intelligence with a pagan god seems to have happened in poetry almost exclusively, and never to have threatened Christian monotheism. To work such a thing into In Nomine would violate canon somewhat concerning the Marches, but, if you wanted, you *could* assign an angel or (probably a new) Archangel to each planet in the Solar System, along with the Sun and Moon, and identify these with the equivalent gods of pagan pantheons. Non-astronomical gods would then be a mixture of true Ethereals and other celestials. C. S. Lewis did exactly this in his Space Trilogy. A modern man visits Mars ("Malacandra") and Venus ("Perelandra") and meets physical Maritans and Venusians, an interplanetary race of, as it were, multidimensional energy beings that are identified with angels, and major members of that race who rule planets and are the originals of the pagan gods. He went even further. The Intelligence of each planet has ambassadors to all the other planets. So the *immediate* model for Venus, Aphrodite, Hathor, Ishtar, Innana, and Freya is the energy being who is the ambassador from Perelandra. And there is an ambassador from Earth in the celestial court of each of the other Intelligences. (These ambassadors are in embarassing diplomatic positions, since the Intelligence of Earth is Satan.) If you wanted to use the ambassadorial idea in In Nomine, perhaps the various ethereal gods of the various pantheons are the ambassadors of various Intelligences to the various human cultures. You would then, perhaps, make the Intelligences a new, non-canonical choir, one that presumably took a VERY dim view of Uriel's crusade. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:55:52 -0400 From: NICK_JOST@Non-HP-USA-om42.om.hp.com Subject: IN> Investigation - --openmail-part-0e76bee4-00000001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="BDY.TXT" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="BDY.TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My goodness....how often will that happen? The whole point is to keep a low profile. Do you think a celestial goes to a hospital where the doctor notices that his body doesn't seem to need nourishment? That he heals *really* well? As for the doctor calling, I just can't see him doing that unless this is a well paid doctor and not some intern and a country conglomerate. They won't call. All this does seem paranoid to me. No one is that interested in that guy. To illustrate: 1.) How do spies work (and don't tell me they are all sleepers)? 2.) Undercover cops? 3.) Witness protection program members? 4.) Gangsters? If you can tell me the system can catch all four of these *reliably* then I'll buy your problem with roles. Nick - -------------------Various edits---------------------------- Joe is homeless in DC. Various organiztion see to his care, but need to verify his existence so that they can help him back on his feet. They start pulling at all the records that they can get their hands on to verify education. If anything looks questionable, they're going to want to talk to someone. If there isn't anyoe to talk to, then they're going to get curious. As a GM, I think that I must have the most paranoid group on the face of the planet. I told them about the paperwork system, and they started in on all the ways that there character could be traced around and found out for not being who they say they are. This did not sit well with anyone, especially not the Seraph player. As I say, though, I've got paranoid players. - --openmail-part-0e76bee4-00000001-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:09:37 -0400 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: Re: IN> Lost Words? At 3:02 AM -0400 7/31/98, Akira wrote: >So whatever word you accept in the first place, make sure you want it. Well, in the case of the Seraphim council, it's more a matter of going after a word, rather than accepting one offered to you, in most cases. In the case of Lucifer...well, you rarely have a choice... "You shall be the Demon of Gangrenous Ingrown Toenails." "Thank you, Mighty Dark Lord." "And you, you shall be the Demon of Captain Crunch Poweder That Half-Fills The Last Bowl Poured From The Box." "Yes, my Lord Lucifer." "You shall be the Demon of Worthless Comic Book Misprints." "No thank you, sir." "No?" "If it's all the same to you, sir, I'd rather not." "That's the first time anyone's said 'No.' to me in a thousand years. Are you sure this is what you want?" "Perfectly sure, sir." "Very well, then, you may go....Let's see, who's next...Ah yes. You shall be The Demon of Rancid Condiment Packets." "Um...uh...No..?" *FWOOOOM* "GYAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGHH!!" "Hasn't been a thousand years yet. Next!" ===== ><{{"> =================================================== <"}}>< ====== Nana-Yaw "The Fish" Ofori, Freelance Soldier of Heck, presenty serving Spiner, Djinn Knight of Dark Humor, the Demon of Straight Men nofori@pop3.utoledo.edu | Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~maltesh maltesh@usa.net | In Nomine: http://members.tripod.com/~maltesh/T317 ===== ><{{"> ============ "Life's a Fish, then you Fry." ======= <"}}>< ====== ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:18:29 -0500 From: The Bard Subject: IN> The Poker game - --------------1E82C5E16D61DE26589ACCCA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a bit of story telling on my part. I hope no one minds me posting it on the list. And if anyone has an IN webpage feel free to post it. You may have to do a few spelling and grammer modifcations. And now The bard proudly presents The Poker Game My cel-phone rang again, I knew who it was because I was already running late. The guys were tring to call again. I still had alot to do before I headed over to the house. I had to get my servant to pick up some blinds for the windows, get red of the body, feed the pets, and start transilating the artifact. I was going to help but I had to arrange for my bike to be tuned up and get my Cherub frind to do a job for me. After I got all my chores done I headed to Siman's house to play some poker. I had been playing poker with the same group of demons every week for about a month. I was the only angel in the group. Which made for some very interesting games. The only standing rule was no politics were to be disscussed. I arived at the house more than two hours late I was greeted by laughter and lite harted jeers. We never talked about what bands or chours we balonge to but I figered out most of them. Balok , Bal for short, was a Calabim and did alot of the higher profile jobs for the demons of the city. Arifile was a Djinn and never said much but seemed to grumbal alot. Simon was the comedion of the three. A Balseraph who reminded me of Gilbert Gotfree so much it hurt to hear him talk. "It's about time you got here. Bal kept eyeing the V.C.R. funny" Simon said as I walked in the door. "Yeah well I had stuff to do" I said sitting down at the table "deal me in" As the night started and the game built up more momentem. "Anyone want a beer." I offered as I got up to get one for myself. After a round of declines I headed to the kitchen to get my beer. As I opened the ice box I reached deep into my laether jacket pocket and pulled out the Holy Granaid. I pulled the pin and rolled it under the stove. I had maybe two or three min. before it went off. I walked back into the living room. "Well guys I got to go. See ya later" "Yeah we figered it was getting late for you pussy devine types" Bal said "Uh hu" I walked out the door and got on my bike. I was just a block away when I heard the blast. I laughed to myself. Ya know I think other Malakim could learn some sutalty. There it is my story. I hope you all like it and if there is no objection the will be more to follow...someday. Sincerly The bard - --------------1E82C5E16D61DE26589ACCCA Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a bit of story telling on my part. I hope no one minds me posting it on the list. And if anyone has an IN webpage feel free to post it. You may have to do a few spelling and grammer modifcations. And now The bard proudly presents
 
The Poker Game
    My cel-phone rang again, I knew who it was because I was already running late. The guys were tring to call again. I still had alot to do before I headed over to the house. I had to get my servant to pick up some blinds for the windows, get red of the body, feed the pets, and start transilating the artifact. I was going to help but I had to arrange for my bike to be tuned up and get my Cherub frind to do a job for me. After I got all my chores done I headed to Siman's house to play some poker. I had been playing poker with the same group of demons every week for about a month. I was the only angel in the group. Which made for some very interesting games. The only standing rule was no politics were to be disscussed. I arived at the house more than two hours late I was greeted by laughter and lite harted jeers. We never talked about what bands or chours we balonge to but I figered out most of them. Balok , Bal for short, was a Calabim and did alot of the higher profile jobs for the demons of the city. Arifile was a Djinn and never said much but seemed to grumbal alot. Simon was the comedion of the three. A Balseraph who reminded me of Gilbert Gotfree so much it hurt to hear him talk.

"It's about time you got here. Bal kept eyeing the V.C.R. funny" Simon said as I walked in the door.

"Yeah well I had stuff to do" I said sitting down at the table "deal me in"

As the night started and the game built up more momentem. "Anyone want a beer." I offered as I got up to get one for myself. After a round of declines I headed to the kitchen to get my beer. As I opened the ice box I reached deep into my laether jacket pocket and pulled out the Holy Granaid. I pulled the pin and rolled it under the stove. I had maybe two or three min. before it went off. I walked back into the living room.

"Well guys I got to go. See ya later"

"Yeah we figered it was getting late for you pussy devine types" Bal said

"Uh hu" I  walked out the door and got on my bike. I was just a block away when I heard the blast. I laughed to myself. Ya know I think other Malakim could learn some sutalty.

There it is my story. I hope you all like it and if there is no objection the will be more to follow...someday.

Sincerly
The bard
  - --------------1E82C5E16D61DE26589ACCCA-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:42:24 PDT From: "Doug Muir" Subject: IN> IN- Lost Words? >>Or to change it to another one? > >Apparently possible, or Furfur in Night Music wouldn't have tried to get >his changed. Right! Good point. >>My initial reaction was "no". But... in that case, what happens to the >>Word-bound whose Words have simply ceased to exist? > >They weaken greatly, possibly even die. Everybody keeps saying this, but it doesn't seem to be directly supported by canon. There was the Demon of Steam in H&H, but he was still very much around, albeit rather discordant. The Old Guy in Night Music appeared to be fading because his *tether* was dying, not his *Word*. >> Like the Angel of Passenger Pigeons, > >In this case, at least, the Word hasn't ceased to exist, just the >physical species it refers to. The *concept* of the Passenger Pigeon is >still with us, as a major example of ecological tampering. So this one, >at least, I would claim is alive and well, and possibly more powerful >than before, though with rather different duties. I knew someone would say that. But I think that job would go to the Angel of the Dodo. And even if you want to argue it, there's still the question of what happened to the Angels of the mammoth, ground sloth, Carolina parakeet, Steller's sea cow, triceraratops, ammonite, multituberculate, thylacine, and smallpox virus. Threre are gajillions of extinct species... tens of thousands even if you restrict it to the famous or "important" ones. Their celestials can't *all* be pushing Discovery Channel specials on biodiversity. >> or the Demon of Traditional Etruscan Drinking Songs? > >Who says he hasn't translated them into other languages and spread them >around? Then he's trespassing on the turf of the Demons of Traditional Latin, Gothic, and Frankish Drinking Songs... who are still very much around, and in better shape 'cause they're drawing essence every day. >>Technological advances, social changes, wars and extinction can render >>some Words obsolete or completely nonexistent. What happens to the >>celestial then? > >They weaken back to roughly what they'd have been without a Word, I >think. Possibly even further in some cases. It's canon that Word-bound >Senschals typically die when their Tether goes. Okay, I could go with that... but do they then have a shot at a new Word? Especially if they did well with their old one and were taken out by circumstances beyond their control? Doug M. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:55:56 PDT From: "Doug Muir" Subject: IN> IN- Lost Words? >> Okay, but how *is* the Angel of Passenger Pigeons going to empower his >> word? Work to heighten awareness of extinct species? > >Carefully tending the dovecotes full of surviving passenger pigeons >that he set up years ago in self-defense? Snork. Then we'd better step carefully around the Angel of Smallpox. >Actually, it would appear that Words allow of a certain amount of >"linguistic drift." Thus Gabriel presides over the fires of >inspiration and madness as well as literal fire, and Novalis >presides over peace and mercy, which have no very real connection >to flowers. Agreed. The Symphony isn't a lawyer, apparently, and allows some definitions to be fuzzed. >If he was clever, industrious, and lucky, the demon of the >Hanseatic League is now the demon of the Gnomes of Zurich. Maybe the Angel of the Holy Roman Empire now watches over NATO and/or the European Community. >Or not. I don't say these shifts always succeed. Yes... I would agree. I think it would require a certain flexibility, perhaps painful and difficult, on the part of the celestial. >I don't think a ruling exists on the status of Worded celestials >with extinct Words. Personally, I'd have them dwindle back down >to pre-Word power levels, and played with a certain amount of >nostalgia, depression, or grudge-bearing. Some of them, certainly. Some might be relieved -- yeah, I'm a lot weaker than I was, but being the Angel of the League of Nations was just a sh*t job, and I'm glad it's over. >Another way to be a Come-Back Kid might be to get a new Word. >Jordi probably has to face this regularly. "Okay, boss, I did >good with the trilobites. Sorry I didn't get them through that >last mass extinction, but you've always told us no species lasts >forever, right? ('Course, you usually say it about Homo sapiens...) >Anyway, got any openings? I've got a lot of background experience >suitable for horseshoe crabs. Butterflies would be nice, though..." Yeah. I think I like this approach. After all -- no species is forever, not even sharks or cockroaches. The interesting ones, like tyrannosaurs and neanderthals, tend to just stick around for a few million years. So Jordi would probably have some procedure for judging performance and recycling the Word-bound appropriately: "Yah, you did a good job with trilobites. They were the centerpiece of every marine ecosystem for, what, three hundred million years? Maybe you could have made them a little more adaptable, but okay, 96% of all oceanic arthropods went under in that last mass extinction. Okay, butterflies won't be available until the Cretaceious , but if you want something that can fly, there are these little theropod dinosaurs I've had my eye on... "Sorry, I am _not_ impressed. I gave you ammonites -- the biggest, smartest, most interesting members of the whole molluscan phylum -- and all you do is fiddle with their shell design for fifty megayears and then you let them go extinct. No, the asteroid wasn't your fault, but you should have been prepared. Yes, there will be Marine Mammals in this new era, and no, you may _not_ have that Word... I'm sticking you with the chambered nautilus. Try to do something interesting with it." >Jean's angels present the same thing, only faster. "Hello, I'm >Sariel, Angel of CDs, formerly Angel of 78s, formerly Angel of >Player-Piano Rolls. This is my friend Carenel, formerly Angel of >Phonograph Cyliners, then it was LPs wasn't it? now 8-tracks, but >he's got his eye on audio chips, don't you old fellow? We're a >sort of team, you see." Chuckle. I like it, although that seems to easy... there are still 8-tracks and piano-player rolls around, after all. I don't think anyone should be able to ditch his Word until it's pretty close to totally gone. Doug M. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:04:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Jayson Howell Subject: Re: IN> Investigation I think background checks are common. Granted, 99% of them are satisfied with a photo ID. Most people on this list have a job, and I'd be surprised if anyone here goes through thorough background checks. I'd bet the most the average person says is "Can I see some photo ID and a major credit card please?" Roles are not about fooling the feds, investigators, or the mob. Roles are about establishing a niche in the Symphony for someone who was never supposed to be there. Certainly a good role will cover these things, but a celestial without a role might cover them as well. It's not about fooling the Symphony either, as I understand it. The Symphony knows you don't belong there. However, you've arranged the Symphony around you such that if you interact with it, it doesn't have quite the same jarring action that a stranger would cause. You've managed to find a loose thread in the Symphony and wrapped it around you. Think of it as a celestial behaving so "in character", that the lines between the celestial and his "character" begin to be less obvious... I was reading IN p.43 again, and the example they gave was impersonating a cop. How if you have a role, no amount of checking up will reveal you as anything else because you ARE a cop. There'd be a cup with coffee stains sitting on your desk at the station. You're a cop. I noticed it made no mention whatsoever of past friends. No mention of your fond Academy days. No mention of a background supplied for you. Merely that to have a role, you can't have a background that *betrays* your role. I've since re-evaluated how I think roles should be handled. If you've played your part well, and covered your tracks, you can have a role. You don't need a history. You just need to *not* have a contradictory history. Because of this, I now allow my players to obtain roles *if* they get the character points *and* they play the roll they want to embrace them. If they do a good job of staying "in character", then I'll let them weave themselves slowly into the Symphony. This will however take quite a bit of time and effort. Any thoughts? Disagreements? Pointless flames directed at my mom? -Jayson PS - Leave Mom out of this. - ---NICK_JOST@Non-HP-USA-om42.om.hp.com wrote: > > My goodness....how often will that happen? The whole point is to keep a low > profile. Do you think a celestial goes to a hospital where the doctor notices > that > his body doesn't seem to need nourishment? That he heals *really* well? > > As for the doctor calling, I just can't see him doing that unless this is a well > paid doctor and not some intern and a country conglomerate. They > won't call. > > All this does seem paranoid to me. No one is that interested in that guy. To > illustrate: > > 1.) How do spies work (and don't tell me they are all sleepers)? > 2.) Undercover cops? > 3.) Witness protection program members? > 4.) Gangsters? > > If you can tell me the system can catch all four of these *reliably* then I'll > buy your > problem with roles. > > Nick > > -------------------Various edits---------------------------- > Joe is homeless in DC. Various organiztion see to his care, but need to > verify his existence so that they can help him back on his feet. They > start pulling at all the records that they can get their hands on to verify > education. If anything looks questionable, they're going to want to talk > to someone. If there isn't anyoe to talk to, then they're going to get > curious. > > As a GM, I think that I must have the most paranoid group on the face of > the planet. I told them about the paperwork system, and they started in on > all the ways that there character could be traced around and found out for > not being who they say they are. This did not sit well with anyone, > especially not the Seraph player. As I say, though, I've got paranoid > players. > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #889 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.