From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Aug 24 22:44:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA00443 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:44:33 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id WAA25158 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:33:15 -0500 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:33:15 -0500 Message-Id: <199808250333.WAA25158@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #928 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, August 24 1998 Volume 01 : Number 928 In this digest: IN> Disturbance = Measure of effect on human's free will? IN> Disturbance (was Re:IN> Another disturbance formula) Re: IN> Re: Expanded Angelic Resonances Re: IN> A new way to compute disturbance...? Re: IN> A new way to compute Disturbance? Re: IN> Superheroes and In Nomine Re: IN> A new way to compute Disturbance? IN> Calabim and the Fifth Dimension Re: IN> Re: Expanded Angelic Resonances IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #927 Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #927 Re: IN> Another disturbance formula Re: IN> Re: Expanded Angelic Resonances Re: IN> Disturbance = Measure of effect on human's free will? Re: IN> Disturbance (was Re:IN> Another disturbance formula) IN> The Tsayadim Re: IN> The Tsayadim ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 01:53:13 PDT From: "David Streeter" Subject: IN> Disturbance = Measure of effect on human's free will? Someone wrote: > hMM... But actions dealing with humans, such as revealing the existance of >Angels, don't really interfere with free will, they just give the humans a >different set of information on which to base their decisions. Depends, on what the human is exercising his free-will ON. I'd suggest that some decisions are more important than others. > Gaesea would >definitely count for serious disturbance, under that definition though. Perhaps not Geases so much (since they had the opportunity to refuse the favour), but Shedim (and Kyriotates) sure as heck would. > To be honest, I'm not sure I like that definition, but it has some >implications that could be interesting. In particular, how the appearance of a >superior creates so much disturbance to human free will. Is it possible that >the presence of such a profound conceptual entity on earth has some sort of >effect on the surrounding environment? I.E. When Saminga shows up, the heart >attack rate in the surrounding area spikes, or when Malphas shows up, fights >just coincidentally tend to break out? Like I said, it is a pretty radical change - the tables would need to be re-appraised. It would be neat for role-playing, though - it would make disturbance a role-playing factor as well as a mechanistic factor. IMHO, the concept of "disturbance" is a bit nebulous at the moment - mechanistically, it is a way for celestials to detect one another (and to stop munchkins killing every human that gets in their way). In campaign, it is a disturbance in the symphony - interference in God's plan. If this is the case, why would Demons want to minimise disturbance at all? Making disturbance a measure of effect on Free Will would give the game a more "Devil's Advocate" feel. As Al Pacino's Satan says (IIRC) "Free Will is like the wing of a moth. Touch it and it is destroyed", or something like that. I imagine this change would be for IN 2.0, if at all. SurturZ Habbalite of Factions, Angel of Constructive Criticism ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:42:58 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: IN> Disturbance (was Re:IN> Another disturbance formula) In message , David Streeter writes > >Also, what is disturbance? I propose that it is a measure of how much >celestials interfere with humans' free will. Hence the high penalty for >killing a human. > Not really. Celestials disturb the Symphony just by being here. They're *always* making noise, it's just that its generally too small to hear by themselves and most others of their kind. Bumping into somebody on the street should make noise, but is unlikely to be that loud unless you bowl them over and probably hurt them. But it isn't just _damage_ to parts of the Symphony that make noise. Look at Valefor's Swipe attunement (IN pg 181). Aside from the obligatory essence cost, the demon can also damage the Symphony if he is observed 'Swiping'. By his hand he is creating an unexplainable occurence that fractures reality, so it makes noise. Looking back on it, an angel in a role IMC got hospitalised some months ago, and a friend of his used a corp song of healing to repair him somewhat. The angel really needed to be elsewhere and discharged himself shortly after, leaving doctors who were totally amazed at his recovery! *That* should probably have caused some disturbance, above and beyond the song used. >However, this is a somewhat radical change, and might open more cans of >worms - eg. should there be a disturbance for emptying someone's bank >account, revealing the existence of angels, etc etc. > I don't think that you have hit on a radical change here but its certainly a very good point. The table of disturbance in the core book is very basic and should probably be expanded to cover more unusual circumstances, such as those that you mention. Emptying somebody's account *should* make noise. Revealing the existance of angels on the other hand might well be covered in how you choose to prove it; 'See? I'm an angel!' You _have_ got me wondering though about disturbances being relative to the importance of things within the Symphony though. Killing a human attracts big penalties, so does killing/harming somebody who could have changed history make greater noise? Does pilfering Bill Gates' bank accounts create more disturbance then John Q.Mundane? Does damaging something like the Statue of Liberty mean more noise than wrecking a brownstone in the Bowery? Hmmm... >Making it a measure of free-will interference makes it easier to grasp >for new players, though. I think that it would be easier for new players of celestials to grasp if you explained that because they are alien here, everything that they do is in theory going to be noticeable. - -- Julian jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:58:06 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Re: Expanded Angelic Resonances On Thu, Aug 20, 1998 at 01:57:08PM -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >I just looked at the advanced Mercurian table (the -2 one) > >and thought 'Bright Lilim'. > > Ah, yes, #2 on my list to eliminate/change.... (#1 is the Kyriotate > tables. Both of them. They make my teeth grind.) > I liked the memory-reading ability for Kyriotates. Given generally low Perception among that Choir, it is not a game-breaking ability, and it makes the world more consistent. I'm not sure why Cherubim need to be made into Malakim, though. I also admit to preferring the APG to the IPG in general (though the editing on the IPG was largely better). Oh, and some nitpicky questions which I don't believe were answered. Why in the description of the Djinn of Theft attunement does it define the term person as referring only to humans when the glossary in the main rulebook clearly uses it to include all sapient beings? Is the correct spelling of the first Habbalite's name Camael or Caimael (and how is it pronounced)? I ask because there's a discrepancy between the APG and IPG. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 98 13:14 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> A new way to compute disturbance...? >I like the WSDR, in that it's a simplified system that also "makes >sense" game mechanics-wise, i.e. you're using a pre-existing "celestial >range" table for the distances. What I don't like about it is that it >does make small disturbances easier to hear at appreciable distances. I don't like this either, but it was the simplest thing I could do. It can be ameliorated somewhat by tacking on a constant penalty to the Perception roll. For example, a -3 penalty and "nominal" range (1-10 yards) would make the average 6-Per celestial pretty unlikely to hear a 1-point disturbance. On the other hand, the 12-Perception celestial can still hear a 1-point noise at 200 yards, about 50% of the time. That's definitely the ugly spot in this scheme. The simplified system definitely has drawbacks, but I couldn't find anything else that worked as well and kept the following properties: - simple to compute - higher-Perception celestials more likely to hear things farther away - kept *roughly* the current range of perception for typical celestials and "typical" amounts of noise (about 6-10 disturbance) - didn't create wide disparities in range of perception among people with varying Perception (or Cel. Forces). ...in roughly descending order of importance. >It may be tempered by my biases based on the system in place, but it >seems to me that you ought to have to be pretty close to a celestial >before you hear it spend a small bit of Essence (for example). I'd much prefer that 1-2 Essence shouldn't be commonly be heard more than a few yards away. Putting a small constant negative modifier in fixes this, but Elizabeth didn't like making the formula more complex. She may change her mind after seeing the various comments here, though. >The WSDR as is makes it harder for a celestial to dissapear "into a >crowd" by limiting it's use of supernormal powers. Now, it would >probably have to cut them out altogether. Well, resonances are normally "quiet", but yes, most other things would run some risk at a fair distance, with a high-Perception celestial in the area. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 98 13:29 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> A new way to compute Disturbance? [calculations omitted -- and I should note that I spent some time doing similar ones with a variety of disturbance models] > I think a few questions need to be asked about the disturbance mechanics. >First, Walter, have you tried this new system in your game yet? No. I did check a few cases of pre-existing detections in my game against my proposed rules, though. It *does* do bad things to how far *loud* noises would have been picked up. As a general rule in my campaign, celestials aren't common enough that mid-range disturbances usually matter. Either the detector is rather close (i.e., involved directly in what's going on, or in the neighborhood for plot-related reasons), or rather far away (doing stuff generally unrelated to what the PCs are up to). This distribution is partly why I wasn't so much concerned about the mid-range cases -- I was more worried about the 0-100 yard range, and what happened out at a range of a mile or more. > Secondly, and more generally, what is desired out of the >mechanics? Covered in my previous post, mostly.... > Automatic detection inside a certain range, based on the >disturbance? Yes. > The ability to go unnoticed to anyone outside 10 yards or so >when dropping that 1 Essence? I'd certainly like that, at least for typical celestials. (Note that with the existing rules, the 12-Per, 6-CelForce celestial hears 1 Essence to 36 yards, with a 50% chance.) > How far away should the Loud Stuff be heard? >All across town? To the next town? The next state? Across town, maybe; I don't think much farther unless a celestial drops a nuke or something. (Note that the Thera explosion associated with the death of the AA of Waters (I think) was *very* destructive, and would have been heard a *long* way away, even with my proposal.) > What kinds of disturbances >should be loudest, and why? As it stands, killing humans might need >increasing as far as disturbance is concerned, if that is just a no-no for >practical reasons in In Nomine (at least without some kind of masking effect >in place first), I don't think it needs much boosting, actually. > and Superiors decreased (it makes it almost too hard for >Superiors to pop up anywhere other than Tethers and conduct business. There are other ways for Superiors to show up than manifesting down from the celestial realm -- and these are much less noisy. > And what of Tethers? They're celestially noisy--how do they impact >disturbance detection? Cause static if in the line of detection? They're noisy mostly from celestial activity, though. Some are intrinsically noisy, sort of like the Song of Thunder. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:31:47 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Superheroes and In Nomine On Fri, Aug 21, 1998 at 06:46:41AM +0100, Jo Hart wrote: > >ah, but does Hitler have the spear of destiny. > > > > > > No, but he has the picture of the Madonna with the big boobies! > > > Wasn't that the picture of the _Fallen_ Madonna with the big boobies? For some reason, I can't see Rene as a superhero, though he could be a Habbalite. (It's the only reasonable explanation for his sexual charisma.) Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:31:15 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> A new way to compute Disturbance? On Mon, Aug 24, 1998 at 01:29:00PM -0400, Walter Milliken wrote: > > How far away should the Loud Stuff be heard? > >All across town? To the next town? The next state? > > Across town, maybe; I don't think much farther unless a celestial drops > a nuke or something. (Note that the Thera explosion associated with the > death of the AA of Waters (I think) was *very* destructive, and would > have been heard a *long* way away, even with my proposal.) > As an aside, if you absolutely must drop a nuke, get someone else to do it. The disturbance is massive, even in a relatively small town. I believe we worked out that the echoes from one incident lasted for over a year under the existing disturbance rules, and were worldwide. (Thank God it wasn't my character who did it.) I'm not sure if it could have been heard on the moon, but it would be interesting to work out. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:47:30 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: IN> Calabim and the Fifth Dimension Calabim and the Fifth Dimension. This arose out of a rather weird discussion of mine after a 'con concerning 42-sided dice and faults in the mechanics for such flaws as One Eye in various games. Then I decided that many of Angus Thermopyle's personality traits could be generalised for all Calabim. And then I waited a week to post because I'm lazy. Consider Ofanim. They can sense the location of other places. They can move swiftly out of the way of danger, or into it. They are grace, and decision, and action and confidence. In the most fundamental sense, they know where they are. Imagine having that sense of sureness ripped away from you. Imagine that you can still sense the map, but you are no longer a part of it. It is something _other_, it is much larger than you are, and therefore it is threatening. The only way to safeguard yourself is to destroy it. Try staying absolutely still. Imagine that what you see in front of you has no fundamental reality at all, that it is nothing other than a picture. Imagine that you can reach out your hand and rip part of the picture away, or grab hold of a piece of it, and twist it. Imagine that you also are no more substantial than that piece of paper. That is what it is to see the world as a Calabite does. The world is against you, and you are against it, but you have an edge in that you have direct control over the world, and you will never willingly give that edge up. Better to shred yourself or warp your soul to its core than to do so. Wounds can be healed. Discord is survivable, and can even be turned to an advantage as it causes others to underestimate you. But nothing can replace your resonance. Without it, the universe will crush you. With it, your control is demonstrated, and therefore your fear is eased. Clearly, a Calabite should have no truck with such concepts as loyalty, duty, honour, friendship or love. They are tools to manipulate other people, and have no value except insofar as they prevent others from seeking to destroy you immediately, or get them to destroy others for your sake. This essential cowardice is not usually evident to others, because Calabim understand the need to put up a front. The characteristic grin is an act of defiance, of bravado, rather than of genuine complacency. In addition, Calabim prefer fight to flight. If you can destroy something, you should, because then it will not threaten you again. And if you can't escape, then you shouldn't try to. Better to do as much damage as possible to the bastard who's trying to kill you. Maybe you'll luck out. Just don't count on it, or on anything else for that matter. Calabim are descended from Ofanim, and because of this they retain a sense of pattern. They can analyse anything for weaknesses that can help them take it apart. The converse of this is that they have a gift for construction, at least in theory. They make good planners, architects, designers and artists. But no Calabite will make anything which they can't take apart in case it's used against them later, and neither would most Calabim do anything so revealing of themselves as create art. Even whatever misdirections were placed in it would tell a discerning eye too much about them. Better to keep your head down, stay silent, and keep grinning. You're just another faceless Destroyer, who'll stay loyal as long as you get to break stuff. Of course, not all of the characteristic act of Calabim is a facade. The sheer omnipresence of the universe distresses them on a fundamental level, and they can only partially get rid of their frustration by acts of petty destruction. They also possess the ability to look to the long term, and because of this many Calabim of the War, for example, will willingly go out to fight angels because not to do so is to let them free to attack you. Demons can be used in the short term. Angels can't, and therefore it is better to get rid of the angels before turning upon other demons. Therefore they deliver the results of loyalty without possessing any loyalty whatsoever, for as long as it offers their best chance of survival. Deep down though, all Calabim believe, to quote the Highlander slogan, that in the end there can be only one. Opinions on other Bands: Balseraphs: "Head-wreckers. They're far too much like us for my comfort. At least we live in the real world, but that's not much comfort when they drag you into theirs." Djinn: "They seem to lack any idea of the big picture, and to be too lazy to be a threat, but don't underestimate the danger they represent. If you get in the way of their fixation, they'll put you out of their way." Calabim: "We're each others' worst enemies, in the long run. In the short term, we can work together." Habbalah: "You'd think they'd have worked out by this stage that everything's weak. This only means that when they realise that you're weak, you're fried. Very dangerous." Lilim: "One great benefit of aggressive behaviour is that it tends to keep them the hell away from you. Hanging around with Shedim also works, but they're not much of an improvement. If they weren't so obsessed with their own pleasure, the bitches would own everything." Shedim: "How they haven't been wiped out long ago is beyond me. They're clearly a danger to everything, and they draw angels like flies. When with them, remember that they always have enemies, and you have nothing to do with them. In fact, you never met it before in your life." Impudites: "It's bad enough that humans are everywhere in itself, but that they're so useful to Impudites makes it unconscionable. And they can mess with your head in such a way you don't even notice them. Slimy bastards." Opinions on Choirs. Seraphim: "Scary. They know the Truth and act on it. Best say as little as possible and hose them when you can. Against them, the truth tells less than lies." Cherubim: "Worse than Djinn, because they'll try to hunt you whether you've hurt their toys or not. Hurt their toys first. That way their head is messed up and they'll make mistakes." Ofanim: "They're everywhere, speeding around the place as if they had a right to. And they're very hard to hit. If you can hold them in one place, you've won. Otherwise, prepare to die." Elohim: "Sneaky, but not so much in love with their own cleverness that they'll refrain from offing you if it's their best option. Assume they know your intentions at all times." Malakim: "They want to destroy all evil, and we want to destroy everything. You'd think we could work up a truce, but none of us are dumb enough for that. Shoot first, before they see you. You probably won't manage it, but keep a sharp eye out." Kyriotates: "They're here, they're there, they're everywhere. Time for indiscriminate violence when they're around. Shoot everything that moves, and they'll have quite a dilemma, and maybe dissonance." Mercurians: "Wouldn't you know it? They can't harm anyone, except us. It just proves the universe is against us. Keep in mind everything I said about Impudites, with interest. Unlike their brethren, the haloes aren't addicts." Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 15:19:00 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Expanded Angelic Resonances At 8:36 PM -0400 8/23/98, Matthew D. Gandy wrote: > Would mind posting a tentative list of APG expanded resonances we might >want to throw out *before* it becomes canon? I'd really appreciate knowing >which ones aren't like to survive canonically. Look at Kyriotates and Mercurians and look long and hard at them... (In particular, the -4 table for Kyriotates is just *evil*, not to mention making Kyrotates of Destiny much less interesting, and the - -2 table for Mercurians may well overlap way too much with Lilim.) The Cherubim -4 table is potentally just annoying, though Cherubim usually have the problem that their resonance is a dissonance- generator, so boosting them isn't necessarily bad. Those are my personal hates, at a minimum. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:05:29 PDT From: "Martin Arnold" Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #927 Hello, sports fans... Celestial Sightseeing in London (an A to D) Hampton Court This is one of London's oldest and most interesting royal palaces. Famous for its maze which was originally considered a religious penance to impress upon ordinary mortals the labyrinthine complications of a life in the service of Christ. Bethnal Green Museum of Childhood This extension of the Victoria and Albert Museum is housed in the building once known as the Brompton Boilers where the decorative arts collections were kept in the 1850's. Jealously guarded by Angel, Christopher's seneschal. Like all museums it is linked to Yves' Library as well. Trocadero Centre This is where you will find 'Sturm und Drag' from NM; the Tangle-bearded man created this celestial arcade game before he became a remnant. Like his creation he still haunts the place. Hyde Park Prince Albert, Queen Victoria's consort, is immortalised here in a somewhat deteriorating memorial. The memorial, featuring him in the centre with a catalogue for the 1851 Great exhibition which he organised, is a reminder of Victorian values; as such it is maintained b angels of Stone and Destiny. Also found here is a miniature graveyard - for animals; this was organised by Marianne of Flowers to store the dead/injured vessels of Jordi's angels should they ever have the misfortune to come to London. The ground here is celestial in nature (made form the same stuff as the Tomb of the unknown warrior in Westminster Abbey) and can preserve the vessels of the angels while they recover. The cemetery grew up in the 1880's around the grave of a Maltese Terrier named 'Cherry'. When Cherry was followed by the Duchess of Cambridge's dog a fashionable precedent was set. In 1967 the last animal was buried there - 'Prince' a marine commando dog whose substantial gravestone reads: 'He asked for so little and gave so much'. Tate Gallery Ever since Eli left, many of the potential tethers to the Halls of Creation have gone unused or wasted. this is one of them; once a proud testament to the artistic and creative endeavours of the British, it is now in danger of playing into the hands of Hell - in particular Kobal. His servants will never forget the day the gallery purchased a huge pile of bricks. Dominic just saw it as one more reason to excommunicate Eli, but there are those who think that Eli, as always, is playing a crafty game. Adam, on the other hand is not to bothered, he rarely hangs out in such cool places (although he liked the KLF). Street Markets One of the best things about London, at least ion the humble opinion(s) of Valefor and Janus. Here's a list: Bermondsey: Bermondsey Square and Long Lane, open on Fridays 5am - 2pm. Where professional antique dealers come to pick up their wares. Berwick Street: Soho. Outstanding fruit and veg among the peep shows. Open everyday except Sunday with ,lunchtime closing on Wednesday. Brick Lane: Whitechapel, open Sunday morning. Very popular market where East End barrows try to offload their junk, especially furniture and old books. Brixton: Electric avenue, open daily except Sunday, with lunchtime closing on Wednesday. London's biggest Caribbean market, with ,music, exotic vegetables, goat's meat and wafting spices. Camden Lock: between Camden High Street and Chalk farm road, open Saturday and Sunday. A weekend institution with a magnificent array of books, clothes, records and assorted antiques by the canal. Camden Passage: Islington, open Wednesday and Saturday only. High-class antiques market in a quiet street next to the bustle of Upper Street. Chapel Market: Islington, closed Mondays and lunchtime Thursday and Sunday. An exuberant North London food market, with excellent fish and as a sideline, lost of cheep household goods and clothes,. Collector's Market: in the basement car park at embankment Place (Charing Cross Station), open Saturday morning. Intriguing setting for trade in stamps, coins, military memorabilia, phonecards and just about anything else. Columbia Road: Shoreditch, open Sunday morning. The city's best flower market. Greenwich: College Approach, Greenwich, weekends only. Lots of crafts, books, furniture and coins. Leadenhall Market: the City, open Monday to Friday. Somewhat forlorn because of the recession, but still a high-class market with lots of fish and game. London Silver Vaults: Chancery Lane, open Monday to sat (closed lunchtime Saturday). A cluster of underground ships with antique and modern silver galore,. Petticoat Lane: Middlesex Street, whitechapel, open Sunday morning. Leather, cheap fashion and household goods at London's most famous Sunday market. Portobello road: Notting Hill, Monday to Saturday with luchctime closing Thursday. Perhaps the most atmospheric market in London. The southern end is stuffed with antiques dealers, while the northern end is ,full of design shops, cafes, food stalls, jewellery stalls, records stalls and more. Walthamstow: Walthamstow High Street every day except Sunday. Way out in the back of beyond of Northeast London is the city's fastest-growing street market. Guildhall With stained glass windows that incorporate the names of over 600 past Lord Mayors, the Guildhall was built to house the meetings and ceremonies of the City Livery Companies. These are the modern equivalent of the mediaeval trade guilds. Today the Livery companies support the industries they represent by funding research and educational activities. From their ranks the Sheriffs and Lord Mayors are chosen to run the City's affairs, and the Guildhall is where they are installed, amid great ceremony. Looking down from the west gallery are two statues of Gog and Magog, the mythical founders of old Albion (Britain). London Central Mosque This rather remarkable mosque, the glint of whose golden dome winks across the top of regent's park, was built in 1978 as a centre of worship for the city's growing Moslem population. This serves as a focal point for Khalid's angles, built the place isn't yet a tether and has no seneschal. All it needs, though, is the right angel to come along and really take the place off. Davenport's Magic Shop Tucked away in a corner of the underground concourse at Charing Cross station is Davenport's the finest magic shop in the world. Lewis Davenport, a celebrated magician whose speciality was the lightning-fast manipulation of solid billiard balls, founded it in 1898. The shop remains in family hands and a fifth generation of Davenports continues to ply the founder's magical arts. Over the years Davenports has assembled an intriguing collection of magic items and literature, including a very early book on the subject, The Dictionary of Witchcraft, published in 1584 and describes tricks thousands of years old. Peace Pagoda The London Peace Pagoda is located in Battersea Park and from its northern niche a golden image of the Buddha gazes serenely across the Thames to the Chelsea embankment. The Pagoda, which was completed in 1985, was a gift from the Nipponzan Myohoji Buddhist order. It is one of 70 pagodas worldwide, all dedicated to peace. Based on ancient Japanese and Indian tradition, the Pagoda is over 100-foot high. Around the central tower, in niches, are four gilded statues of the Buddha set against coloured backdrops. The slim green bronze pinnacle at the top carries seven umbrellas and is topped by a gilded Kota; a kind of spiritual weathervane ringed by eight golden wind-bells. Similar wind-bells hang from the corners of the canopies. The Pagoda can be seen as a map of spiritual life. Sacred beliefs of the Buddha are enshrined inside the fabric of the Pagoda. Since its completion it has become a focus for peace activities. Two hundred yards away, screened by trees, is a small temple associated with the Pagoda. The monk-in-residence is a Soldier of God and a servant of Marianne. Well there are probably tons more places (bring 'em on!), but... Now i'm going to write a campaign based in this setting which will personalise the stuff i've posted a great deal. i dare say it'll be a long time before it's done, but anyoe who's interested can always email me privately (unless i feel like posting it to the list). i'm always happy to share ideas. also if anyone's interested, i think pooling al the available stuff people have for UK based campaigns into one source would be a fun idea - especially for GM's who have servitors of Janus/Valefor in their group; know wot i mean! STUPID QUESTION FOR THE DAY: does an Elohite gain dissonance for ducking when shot at? (It's early, i'm tired!) Marnie ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:07:25 +0100 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #927 At 13:05 24/08/98 PDT, you wrote: >Hello, sports fans... > >Celestial Sightseeing in London (an A to D) > >Hampton Court >This is one of London's oldest and most interesting royal palaces. >Famous for its maze which was originally considered a religious penance >to impress upon ordinary mortals the labyrinthine complications of a >life in the service of Christ. > I thought Henry VIII used to chase his wives through it :) jo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 98 17:18 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Another disturbance formula >I think there should be a modifier for other disturbances that might be >heard, say, -1 per other disturbance with a positive modifier at the >listener's current location? This would limit the range of the louder >disturbances. I'm not entirely clear on what you're proposing here, but the notion that a loud "noise" close by masks your ability to hear other noises further away (unless they're louder) makes sense. I'm not sure how to do this in mechanics in a way that will make sense, though -- you need to account for the distance and magnitude of all the relevant disturbances somehow. >Also, what is disturbance? I propose that it is a measure of how much >celestials interfere with humans' free will. Hence the high penalty for >killing a human. Actually, I think it's more "how much do celestials interfere with the natural order of the corporeal realm"... it's not limited to messing with humans, and I think there may be a canon reference to disturbance (or something similar) happening before humans. (I vaguely recall something about angels having increasing difficuly getting into the corporeal realm until Jordi invented vessels.) Certainly messing with humans qualifies. However, mental manipulations and mere presence in the corporeal are too subtle for most celestials to pick up. >However, this is a somewhat radical change, and might open more cans of >worms - eg. should there be a disturbance for emptying someone's bank >account, revealing the existence of angels, etc etc. Exactly. Damage is fairly obvious, and *generally* easy to understand. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:43:28 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Expanded Angelic Resonances At 5:58 PM +0100 8/24/98, Kevin Walsh wrote: >On Thu, Aug 20, 1998 at 01:57:08PM -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> >I just looked at the advanced Mercurian table (the -2 one) >> >and thought 'Bright Lilim'. >> >> Ah, yes, #2 on my list to eliminate/change.... (#1 is the Kyriotate >> tables. Both of them. They make my teeth grind.) >> >I liked the memory-reading ability for Kyriotates. My problem is that it's too powerful at the high end of the check digit -- it *totally* devalues the Choir Attunement of Kyriotates of Destiny. I might keep some aspects of it, but it needs to be toned down, IMO. (And the -2 Kyrio table is, upon reflection, not as bad as it might be. It just needs some tweaking so the little bodyhoppers don't go taking over people, mind-reading them for the information, writing down the information and mailing it to their buddies or something, and then leaving. Shedim, at least, have to Ooze or make disturbance to pull that kind of abuse.) >makes the world more consistent. I'm not sure why Cherubim need to be made >into Malakim, though. The Cherubim is a Dissonance-generator as often as not -- they're supposed to be guardian angels, but they wind up being Djinn... >Oh, and some nitpicky questions which I don't believe were answered. Why >in the description of the Djinn of Theft attunement does it define the >term person as referring only to humans when the glossary in the main >rulebook clearly uses it to include all sapient beings? Because it was clarified to be that way, and one doesn't have to worry about them enthralling angels and making them do dissonant things. Cherubim of the Wind are similarly restricted. >Is the correct spelling of the first Habbalite's name Camael Camael. He/she/it is in Gustav's Dictionary of Angels, and your guess is as good as mine for pronunciation. I'd probably do it "KAH-mail". - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 98 17:30 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Disturbance = Measure of effect on human's free will? >IMHO, the concept of "disturbance" is a bit nebulous at the moment - >mechanistically, it is a way for celestials to detect one another (and >to stop munchkins killing every human that gets in their way). In >campaign, it is a disturbance in the symphony - interference in God's >plan. If this is the case, why would Demons want to minimise disturbance >at all? Mostly because there's a fair chance of attracting local Malakim, I think. I don't think they have any ethical objections to it, though.... Some demons may also take pride in twisting the Symphony in the most subtle way possible. In their case, disturbance is a measure of the use of inelegant brute force. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 98 17:32 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Disturbance (was Re:IN> Another disturbance formula) >Looking back on it, an angel in a role IMC got hospitalised some months >ago, and a friend of his used a corp song of healing to repair him >somewhat. The angel really needed to be elsewhere and discharged himself >shortly after, leaving doctors who were totally amazed at his recovery! >*That* should probably have caused some disturbance, above and beyond >the song used. Actually, I think that's sort of the intent behind the disturbance factor for Songs, above and beyond that made by the Essence spent. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:42:40 -0400 From: "Matthew D. Gandy" Subject: IN> The Tsayadim I have a general question about the nature of the Tsayadim, Uriel's hunters mentioned in the intro story of The Marches: what are they? Are they a nickname for servitors of Purity who continue to wander the Marches slaying ethereals 1200 years after Uriel's removal, still loyal to their master's Word and never having Fallen? If so, it is the first time a group has gotten a nickname that sounds like a Choir designation. Are they a new Choir, serving only Purity, as Menunim only serve Dreams? If so, why did only *they* decide to continue Uriel's Crusade? Are they akin to the Malakim, as the story suggests (Baal is apparently asking Kronos about Malakim and how to induce them to fall, and Kronos replies obliquely with the fact that none of the Tsayadim have Fallen either)? I ask because they would be an important facet of a historical setting for In Nomine during the Purification Crusade (which has been much discussed as a possible spin-off game), and I'm toying around with writing some material in this direction... - -Matthew D. "Demiurge" Gandy still looking for the face I had before the world was made ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:33:56 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> The Tsayadim On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Matthew D. Gandy wrote: > I have a general question about the nature of the Tsayadim, Uriel's > hunters mentioned in the intro story of The Marches: what are they? When I read about them, I got the feeling that they were the Servitors of Purity who had not entered into the service of the Sword or any other Word when Uriel was recalled. The story read like they were all Malakim, but I have a feeling that there are other Choirs mixed in as well (I believe it is canon that *no* Servitor of Purity could Fall). IMC, that is how I treated them. Of course, I also used the Cult of Uriel (on the INC, check it out), so there were very few Tsayadim left. Most of them had been either corrupted or destroyed by the Cult. > Are they a new Choir, serving only Purity, as Menunim only serve > Dreams? If so, why did only *they* decide to continue Uriel's Crusade? > Are they akin to the Malakim, as the story suggests (Baal is apparently > asking Kronos about Malakim and how to induce them to fall, and Kronos > replies obliquely with the fact that none of the Tsayadim have Fallen > either)? A case could be made for this being true as well. In fact, I believe Krowe wrote them up as a Choir on his web page (although I don't remember what his URL is, so I couldn't say for sure). I prefer them being the loyal Servitors of Purity of all Choirs, but that's just a style thing. > I ask because they would be an important facet of a historical > setting for In Nomine during the Purification Crusade (which has been > much discussed as a possible spin-off game), and I'm toying around with > writing some material in this direction... Cool. Would it be possible for me to see what you come up with? Richard "Mr. Uriel" Gant PS (and blatant plug): I have a write-up for Uriel on my In Nomine page, which might be useful for you. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit my web page. The Gaming Ghetto, at In Nomine: The Last Days, at Walking the Planes, at - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #928 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.