From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Jan 23 07:27:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA20793 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 07:27:56 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) id HAA26623 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 07:26:27 -0600 Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 07:26:27 -0600 Message-Id: <199901231326.HAA26623@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1103 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, January 23 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1103 In this digest: IN> Pregnancy & Kyrios Re: IN> Nephallim IN> Looking for John Maurer... Re: IN> Looking for John Maurer... IN> Re: Nephalim ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:41:38 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Pregnancy & Kyrios >>>Now- -I- wonder if Shedim children grow up to become Soldiers of Hell...<<< This probably does happen sometimes, but it's by no means a certainty. Technically there's no reason why the child of a Kyriotate or Shedite-possession should be any different from any others. I tend to think a child conceived that way might be likely to have the potential for extra Forces, but there's no inherent divine or diabolical taint to him. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 02:31:26 -0500 From: Casey Hartman Subject: Re: IN> Nephallim Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > BillionSix@aol.com wrote: > > > When do we get to see stuff on the Nephallim? In more than one > > place, especially in the Songs of Fruition, we see references to > > the children of humans and celestials as the monstrous Nephallim. > > What does monstrous mean? > > The Bible passage that the legends of the nephilim are based on > is > > "And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the > earth, and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God saw the > daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all > which they chose. ... There were giants in the earth in those days; and > also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, > and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of > old, men of renown." -- Genesis 6:1-5 Actually, in the NIV version of the Bible (IMO a much better translation), it speaks directly of the Nephilim. 'The Nephilim were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.' - Genesis 6:4 > In the apochryphal books of Enoch, the nephilim are depicted > as giants who nearly wipe out the human race, first by eating > all the food, then by starting in on the humans. To my knowledge, in the Books of Enoch it's the Watchers (Grigori) who are the base cause for God creating the Deluge. The Children of the Grigori, themselves, are the Nephalim, there's no real difference. There's a copy of the Books of Enoch online, the first few chapters a very good source of Grigori/Nephalim information. http://wesley.nnc.edu/noncanon/ot/pseudo/enoch.htm Casey Hartman The End is Nigh! Play on Armageddon MUSH: telnet://minerva.erisian.net:6996 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 99 19:23:05 CST From: Michael Nutt Subject: IN> Looking for John Maurer... Sorry to hit the list with this, but I'm looking for John Maurer (speaks@mindspring.com>. He's a player in an IN PBEM I was *hoping* to get started this weekend, but mail sent to his address has started bouncing for some reason. John, if you see this, please get in touch with me! Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 21:02:39 -0500 From: John Maurer Subject: Re: IN> Looking for John Maurer... Michael Nutt wrote: > Sorry to hit the list with this, but I'm looking for John Maurer > (speaks@mindspring.com>. He's a player in an IN PBEM I was *hoping* to get > started this weekend, but mail sent to his address has started bouncing for > some reason. Hmmm... here I am. let me resend you my E-Mail first move. Speaks ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 05:23:45 PST From: "Martin Arnold" Subject: IN> Re: Nephalim "When do we get to see stuff on the Nephallim?" And the Grigori! "Have any of you come up with any cool Neph ideas for your own campaigns?" Well, after I read this I had a little think; I haven't set anything in stone yet for my game, but I plan on using the Grigori at least. On a basic level one could say that Nephilim are mortals (i.e. with 5 Forces) that have celestial powers; in fact probably only angelic powers (assuming the Grigori were not a Band). In other words they are a little lie relievers except: They don't cause Disturbance They probably don't have Servitor attunements, only Grigori Choir attunements (whatever they might be) They can consciously spend essence - maybe? Maybe they have to learn They may have a certain Discord to reflect their mythological 'monstrous' status They have a corporeal soul and a human body Essence regained at sunrise Cannot become wordbound - maybe? Don't have rites (or rights!) This is an off-the-cuff baseline excluding any unique traits they may have (like being giants for instance - I suspect that won't be too popular). One question: are the children of the Grigori - the Nephalim - the same as any other celestial/human hybrid? Or are they unique among such creatures simply because of the Grigori? "I'm not really big on doing conversions, so systems might be a bit of a bear, and the histories as they are written are certainly not compatible. (The Tyrannosaur Prophet-King Mu of the sentient lizard people, for example.)" Neither am I as it goes! ~g~ Perhaps the Nephalim are SO monstrous they got/get mistaken for dinosaurs (legend has it they were giants)! ~lol~ "In a nutshell, Chaosium Nephilim are like "good" Shedim." Nephilim is a superb game - and maybe one day ill get to run it (after I buy the rulebook back!), but I never considered them to be particularly 'good' - in any sense of the word. In human terms I wouldn't like to be involved with one and its schemes. Alien is an apt description I think! god bless 'em! "Also note that the Nephilim of that game are nothing like the Nephallim of IN." Well that remains to be seen doesn't it! ;-) "The main book and the follow-up sourcebooks are fabulously well written." The only sourcebook I red was the Chronicle of awakenings which would be as useful as the main book if you were planning in buying the game, at least as an IN supplement. (Its kind of a players guide in that, IIRC, it contains more character types and eras to choose from.) You're' right the whole game is frighteningly well written! "In the apochryphal books of Enoch, the nephilim are depicted as giants who nearly wipe out the human race, first by eating all the food, then by starting in on the humans." So THEY ate all the pies then! ~g~ Martin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1103 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.