From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Nov 12 18:41:16 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18528 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2000 18:41:15 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id SAA07344 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 12 Nov 2000 18:39:08 -0600 Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 18:39:08 -0600 Message-Id: <200011130039.SAA07344@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1919 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, November 12 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1919 In this digest: Re: IN> What you've all been waiting for... RE: IN> What you've all been waiting for... Re: IN> What you've all been waiting for... Re: IN> What you've all been waiting for... IN> In Nomine Animals IN> Alternate Words for yo-yoing Superiors IN> Kronos' Fate/Destiny IN> In Nomine Animals Re: IN> In Nomine Animals Re: IN> Kronos' Fate/Destiny Re:IN> What you've all been waiting for... IN> More insomnia work... Re: IN> More insomnia work... RE: IN> What you've all been waiting for... Re: IN> Speculation time... Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1915 IN> The Princess of Cute IN> Fear and the Power of corruption Re: IN> Falling the other way... Re: IN> Falling the other way... Re: IN> New Heretics.... IN> An affair of Honor ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 20:28:24 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> What you've all been waiting for... Hee!! Thank you, Beth. Allow me to honor the Impudite Princess of Cute, in my own humble way, by implanting everyone's mind with the picture of the fallen Angel of Anime... ...now in service to the Impudite Princess of Cute, as the Demon of SD Kawaii. William ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 20:31:50 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: RE: IN> What you've all been waiting for... >>Iolanthe, Impudite Princess of Cute Very Cute, Beth... But I can think of One Prince Hostile to Iolanthe... Furfur, Prince of Hardcore. Why him? Come on... Since when has "Hardcore" ever tolerated "Cute"? Speaking as a frequent visitor to Flash movie sites like newgrounds.com, I can tell you that "Cute" often means "Target of Mockery" for the Truly hardcore. I've lost track of the number of "Kill the Pokemon/Barney/Teletubbies" that are on the net, for exemple. Here's what I see Furfur's reaction to Iolanthe being: "Oh yeah, I know the little kid... I like her, really... But Beth keeps sending back all the toys I send the kid... The Chainsaw, the Acid-filled water balloons, the woodchipper... I tell you, she's a party pooper... Me and the baby would get along Just Fine if we could get a few seconds together... *Nasty Grin*" Yeah, I know, I've got a sick mind... Blame newgrounds.com - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 19:46:20 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> What you've all been waiting for... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rolland Therrien" To: "In Nomine Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2000 7:31 PM Subject: RE: IN> What you've all been waiting for... > >>Iolanthe, Impudite Princess of Cute > > Very Cute, Beth... But I can think of One Prince Hostile to Iolanthe... > > Furfur, Prince of Hardcore. > > Why him? Come on... Since when has "Hardcore" ever tolerated "Cute"? > > Speaking as a frequent visitor to Flash movie sites like newgrounds.com, I > can tell you that "Cute" often means "Target of Mockery" for the Truly > hardcore. I've lost track of the number of "Kill the > Pokemon/Barney/Teletubbies" that are on the net, for exemple. > > Here's what I see Furfur's reaction to Iolanthe being: > "Oh yeah, I know the little kid... I like her, really... But Beth keeps > sending back all the toys I send the kid... The Chainsaw, the Acid-filled > water balloons, the woodchipper... I tell you, she's a party pooper... Me > and the baby would get along Just Fine if we could get a few seconds > together... *Nasty Grin*" > > Yeah, I know, I've got a sick mind... Blame newgrounds.com Oh, Furfur might *think* this deep in the depths of his depraved mind, but he definitely ain't ever gonna *say* it... .. I mean, when every other Superior in the universe likes you, what does this mean? This means that touching one hair on Iolanthe's head is a *really* stupid idea. Assuming that the Djinn Princess of Nitpicking doesn't shred Furfur into his component Forces all on her own (YOU SIMPLY DO *NOT* MESS WITH A MOTHER DEFENDING HER CHILD -- even Furfur knows this much), there will be a line for the privilege of shredding him that stretches halfway around the universe. We're talking about Novalis declaring him Beyond The Pale, Michael and Baal gearing up for some tag-team mosh pit with Furfur in the middle, Belial showing Furfur that even though his amp goes to 11 Belial can crank the dial up to *twelve*, Beleth replaying the worst nightmares of all creation in Furfur's sleep for a subjective eternity, Blandine tormenting Furfur's nighttime visions with an eternal marathon of "My Little Pony" and "Sailor Moon" (ironically enough, this hurt Furfur far far far worse than the conventional nightmares did. Beleth was later seen stomping around in a*horrible* mood, growling "Why didn't *I* think of that?!?"), Saminga giggling "Dead Demon Prince. Cool Heh heh hmmh heh heh...", Laurence skipping over to the Halls of Progress to temporarily trade in his sword for an Omnitaser Supreme(tm), with optional Mega-Hurting setting, Yves tsking sadly and making enigmatic comments about 'darkest Fate imaginable', and Kronos giggling and skipping and doing the hamster dance in his Archives because he *likes* seeing people destroy their lives via Ultimate Stupidity... .. etc, etc. For crying out loud, *Lucifer* thinks that Iolanthe is the cutest thing since... since... well, just plain *since*. Unless Furfur wants to suddenly end up as the new Demon of Stale Bong Water, there's no *way* he's going to try to put even the slightest amount of mean on Io-chan. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 21:51:14 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> What you've all been waiting for... At 7:46 PM -0600 11/11/00, Charles Glasgow wrote: >We're talking about Novalis declaring him Beyond The Pale, Michael and Baal >gearing up for some tag-team mosh pit with Furfur in the middle, Belial >showing Furfur that even though his amp goes to 11 Belial can crank the dial >up to *twelve*, Beleth replaying the worst nightmares of all creation in >Furfur's sleep for a subjective eternity, Blandine tormenting Furfur's >nighttime visions with an eternal marathon of "My Little Pony" and "Sailor >Moon" (ironically enough, this hurt Furfur far far far worse than the >conventional nightmares did. Beleth was later seen stomping around in >a*horrible* mood, growling "Why didn't *I* think of that?!?"), Saminga >giggling "Dead Demon Prince. Cool Heh heh hmmh heh heh...", Laurence >skipping over to the Halls of Progress to temporarily trade in his sword for >an Omnitaser Supreme(tm), with optional Mega-Hurting setting, Yves tsking >sadly and making enigmatic comments about 'darkest Fate imaginable', and >Kronos giggling and skipping and doing the hamster dance in his Archives >because he *likes* seeing people destroy their lives via Ultimate >Stupidity... Well.... I agree with all that. But getting every Superior, on either side, so pissed at you that they'd all want you dead. All of them.... Now. That. Is. *HARDCORE!* - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 16:58:09 -0800 From: James Walker Subject: IN> In Nomine Animals >Oh God, I hope *not.* The idea of a dog using Songs and potentially >attunements frankly bothers me, unless that dog is a Celestial in >disguise. So possibly, we shouldn't mention that said dog ('Rusty') has the Corporeal Song of Form? Out of curiosity, why does it bother you? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 17:01:49 -0800 From: James Walker Subject: IN> Alternate Words for yo-yoing Superiors From Charles E Smith, for Beleth: >I would think Hope would be a good one. :) Yes, but is already taken by the most senior of the Menunim. (Who is hopefully* on the way towards Superiorhood.) *Sorry about that. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 17:13:14 -0800 From: James Walker Subject: IN> Kronos' Fate/Destiny >Unfortunately the only Destiny I CAN see for Kronos is >self-destruction.<<< > > >Or maybe that's just the optimistic Flowerchild in me.... Granted, fulfilling one's Destiny is supposed to involve some Self-Sacrifice, but I can't help thinking that Kronos' Fate may be a double negative; the very concept of Fate itself is "Doomed!". Partly this is because I'm fairly sympathetic to Kobal's view on the matter - that the Fall is just a sick joke. However, suppose the following: Kobal contacts Yves, asking for an alchemical preparation containing the Divine Destiny attunement pumped up to Yves' level; Kobal wishes to use the thing on Kronos and then, if Kronos' Fate is sufficiently grisly, bind the memories into a Memory Pearl which Kobal will dissolve into Kronos' cup of tea. Kronos then knows his own Fate and must either work towards his own destruction OR start wracking up dissonance as he avoids his Fate. And Kobal sits back and laughs. >It occurs to me that Kronos might have a very bright Destiny. Perhaps he >is Destined to switch sides in the final battle, saving Yves from some >fatal blow and thus dying an unlikely but beloved hero? Can he have a Destiny if Yves didn't name him or know of his existence? After all, if Yves' knows the Destiny of everything, and doesn't know Kronos, that implies that no Destiny exists for Kronos. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 17:25:08 -0800 From: James Walker Subject: IN> In Nomine Animals >Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 12:28:17 -0600 >From: David Edelstein >Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1915 > >James Walker wrote: >> No! As Earl has pointed out: >Earl was drawing a distinction between what you seem to mean by >"self-awareness" and by what the rest of us mean. > >> Remember, a modern car can have the equivalent of a nervous system. >No, it has an artificial analog that with some imagination could be >considered a "nervous system." Which 'informs' the car of injuries. This is only morally relevant if there is a 'self' to feel the pain. The fact that the system is artificial is irrelevant; if your nervous system was replaced with wiring that would not have any moral significance whatsoever. > >> Are you saying that the people the nazis ordered into mass graves/gas >> chambers etc were 'selfless'? > >No, and this is precisely why we draw a distinction between humans and >animals. If an animal kills a lot of people (say, a shark or a tiger), >we might destroy it because it's dangerous, but we wouldn't consider it >"evil" or blame it for maliciously choosing to kill people. If a human >does that, however, we say that that person made a conscious choice to >do something evil. You seem to have missed the point I was making. You had given the example of a horse following its' training blindly as an example that it is not sentient; I gave counter-examples of people who also obeyed orders that they knew were going to get them killed. > >> Cats are solitary hunters, dogs are pack animals. A cat does at it >>pleases> because it thinks as an individual > >No, it does as it pleases to the same extent that a dog does as it >pleases. Cats instinctively act as solitary animals, dogs instinctively >act as pack animals. And humans act instinctively as humans; the fact that we can override our instincts makes us different how? Cats and dogs also do so. In fact, any animal that can learn does so. > >> - a cat can still be considerate > >A cat can show affection; this is not the same thing as making a >conscious choice "I want to be nice to this person." I know; humans do this all the time. > >> (I was> brought up by a cat) >Uh.... Probably should not have mentioned this without an explanation; and tying up this board with an explanation would not be productive. Simple explanation is that I'm living proof of why you should need a licence to have kids. >- -James ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 01:12:56 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Animals James Walker wrote: > Probably should not have mentioned this without an explanation; and tying> up this board with an explanation would not be productive. Simple > explanation is that I'm living proof of why you should need a licence to> have kids. Well, this and your posts indicating that you really have no knowledge at all about animal behavior and cognitive processes beyond anthropomorphic wishful thinking makes me inclined to agree with Eric that continuing this discussion with you would not be productive. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 01:31:42 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: Re: IN> Kronos' Fate/Destiny >Granted, fulfilling one's Destiny is supposed to involve some >Self-Sacrifice, but I can't help thinking that Kronos' Fate may be a double >negative; the very concept of Fate itself is "Doomed!". Partly this is >because I'm fairly sympathetic to Kobal's view on the matter - that the >Fall is just a sick joke. However, suppose the following: >Kobal contacts Yves, asking for an alchemical preparation containing the >Divine Destiny attunement pumped up to Yves' level; Kobal wishes to use the >thing on Kronos and then, if Kronos' Fate is sufficiently grisly, bind the >memories into a Memory Pearl which Kobal will dissolve into Kronos' cup of >tea. Kronos then knows his own Fate and must either work towards his own >destruction OR start wracking up dissonance as he avoids his Fate. And >Kobal sits back and laughs. While I (as a Kobal-lover) think this I great, I do have to point out Fate doesn't necessarily mean self-destruction. If you tried this, you'd probably get that Kronos's Fate is to damn everything in the universe to an eternity in Hell, which he's gleefully working towards already. > >It occurs to me that Kronos might have a very bright Destiny. Perhaps he > >is Destined to switch sides in the final battle, saving Yves from some > >fatal blow and thus dying an unlikely but beloved hero? >Can he have a Destiny if Yves didn't name him or know of his existence? >After all, if Yves' knows the Destiny of everything, and doesn't know >Kronos, that implies that no Destiny exists for Kronos. My personal take is that Yves and Kronos are Destiny and Fate, not just the Archangel and Prince of such, and thus talking about Yves's Fate or Kronos's Destiny is meaningless, in that there's no such thing. (And, when you get down to it, I don't think Yves has a personal Destiny or Kronos a personal Fate, either; they just try and get everything else to meet theirs.) - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 08:09:42 -0500 From: Ben Pollack Subject: Re:IN> What you've all been waiting for... Original message from: Elizabeth McCoy: >Iolanthe, Impudite Princess of Cute > >The world is wrapped around my little finger. I am *still* of the opinion that the demonic rendition of this word is "Ky00t". Ben ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 09:37:03 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> More insomnia work... Ethereal Spider Webs These relics are, naturally, spun by ethereal spiders. (See _You Are Here_ for one example; the spider-god Anasi is another.) They are, it should be noted, _relics_ -- they work on celestials. Even celestials in celestial form. But what do they do? Well, that's the interesting part... Ethereal spider webs are very hard to spot, requiring a Perception roll minus the relic's level. Once one touches the web, one must make a Strength/Intelligence/Will roll (depending on the form one is in: corporeal/in-the-Marches*/celestial), also minus the relic's level. (* There is no ethereal form. There is only the state of being in the Marches, and having a "viewpoint icon" to designate the point of one's perceptions. See GURPS IN for a better explanation of that.) Now, here's the tricky part. Being stuck in the web produces a feeling of... patience. Calmness. The ability to _wait._ Unless one has an intellectual reason to want to get out of the web, one doesn't even care to _try_ to escape. Even Ofanim feel this Spider Patience. It takes a direct threat of harm, or an intellectual reason (e.g., "Gotta get out and do what my Superior ordered") to make that roll to escape. (Anyone with Arachnophobia (Fear: Spiders) makes an Intelligence roll, _plus_ the level of the Fear; if they make it, they _want out now_.) It is said, among spiders and Kyriotates of Jordi, that the great spider-god Anasi is spinning a web that is meant to capture the Archangel of Fire, and that once she is shrouded in its folds, she won't _want_ to escape (though naturally she could do so easily, being a Superior versus a weakened ethereal god). Then, tucked safely away in the depths of the Marches, she could be... ...ransomed? ...helped? ...held forever? ...wrapped up until Anasi comes up with a way to destroy her? Who knows what a spider thinks? Well, Jordi might, but do you think _he's_ talking about this? - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 08:25:16 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> More insomnia work... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth McCoy" To: Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2000 8:37 AM Subject: IN> More insomnia work... [snip] > It is said, among spiders and Kyriotates of Jordi, that the great > spider-god Anasi is spinning a web that is meant to capture the Archangel > of Fire, and that once she is shrouded in its folds, she won't _want_ to > escape (though naturally she could do so easily, being a Superior versus a > weakened ethereal god). Then, tucked safely away in the depths of the > Marches, she could be... > ...ransomed? > ...helped? > ...held forever? > ...wrapped up until Anasi comes up with a way to destroy her? > > Who knows what a spider thinks? Well, Jordi might, but do you think _he's_ > talking about this? First thought that came to my mind -- if Jordi's covering up for Anasi leads to Gabriel's severe harm or destruction, then for the first time in millennia both Michael and Dominic will be in total agreement on something... .. specifically, the urgent need to drag Jordi out into a back alley and beat him severely with clubs. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 10:08:31 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> What you've all been waiting for... At 8:31 PM -0500 11/11/00, Rolland Therrien wrote: >>>Iolanthe, Impudite Princess of Cute > >Very Cute, Beth... But I can think of One Prince Hostile to Iolanthe... > >Furfur, Prince of Hardcore. Point -- I was kind of deliberately leaving him out since he's semi- optional. I might do up the "optional Hardcore addendum" sometime, though. (I am working on the Laundry List Of Superior Opinions at them moment, after all.) >Speaking as a frequent visitor to Flash movie sites like newgrounds.com, I >can tell you that "Cute" often means "Target of Mockery" for the Truly >hardcore. I've lost track of the number of "Kill the >Pokemon/Barney/Teletubbies" that are on the net, for exemple. Much to my gratification, Iolanthe the real doesn't seem interested by those shows either. (We won't go into why _I_ won't _let_ her watch Teletubbies. It's a relatively off-topic rant serving only to underscore why The Media is a demonic Word.) She does play with her Barney and Baby Bop rattles, though (a friend gave them to her!), and bites Barney's head a lot. Maybe Furfur would find himself liking her after all, much to his dismay. O;> ("Hey, cool, Barney-mangling! No, no, NO! What am I SAYING???") - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 15:21:50 GMT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Speculation time... >From: Elizabeth McCoy >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> Speculation time... >Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 18:57:49 -0500 > >At 12:04 PM -0800 11/10/00, Bevan Thomas wrote: > > >If Beleth redeemed, she would definetly need a new word. I can't > >think what it would be, though.... > >Courage? > >Forgiveness? > > Beauty. jo _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 15:36:55 GMT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1915 These are the notes, if anyone is interested ;) jo _Dreams of all Creation_ All living beings need to sleep; even the humble amoeba goes through periods of activity and periods of rest. Blandine sees sleep and rest as a gift which God gave to all of His creations, and her responsibility to nurture dreams extends to the protection of the sleep of animals, and of plants. Animal dreams are fundamentally different from the dreamscapes of humanity. Only the more intelligent species - primates and higher mammals (such as dogs, cats, and larger predators) - are capable of forming their own individual dreamscapes. Angels can recognise the dreamscapes of animals by the simpler, brighter images. Just as animal souls are so pure that all eventually wind up at Jordi's Savannah, individual animal dreamscapes are usually found on Blandine's side of the Vale of Dreams (Near Marches). Less complicated creatures also dream, but in a very different way. Instead of forming individual dreamscapes when they sleep, they dip into the combined subconscious of their species. These combined animal-dreams form as large shadowy dreamscapes in the Marches, anchored to one location. Any who venture inside will find only a strange landscape. The sleeping animal-minds who inhabit the dreamscape may never appear to curious angels - but the location itself acts as if it were "alive." These animal dreams are amongst the purest and most sacred locations in Blandine's protectorate; and although they are more than capable of defending themselves against intruders, they are never left unguarded. _The Forests of the Night_ Plants are not conscious. They exist in a half-aware twilit world, in which sun and rain (in their seasons) are good, and drought or pollution are bad. But even these more basic forms of life have natural cycles of growth, hibernation, and rest. To servitors of Dream, all plantlife takes part in the dreams of the eldest trees -- a half-waking ethereal landscape which all living plants can share. In the Marches, this manifests as a dark forest, which marks one of the borders between the Vale and the Far Marches. The boundaries between the dreams of trees and the corporeal realm are at their weakest in ancient forests, where the trees have grown and dreamed together for centuries without interference from mankind. In these places, angels who know Dream Walking, or the Corporeal Song of Dreams, can use the dreams of trees to enter the Marches directly, as if a tether was present. (The dreams of trees form a conduit between the corporeal realm and the Near Marches, which manifests on Blandine's side of the Vale, but not within her tower.) Ethereals have also discovered these "weak points" between the realms, so Blandine's servitors try to patrol both corporeal and ethereal sides of the forests, to stop "illegal aliens" from slipping through. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 12:45:11 -0800 From: tcp@zoomnet.net Subject: IN> The Princess of Cute Oh well.... I can't resist... Awwwwwwwwwwwwww - -Charlie - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 12:52:18 -0800 From: tcp@zoomnet.net Subject: IN> Fear and the Power of corruption I think one of heaven's biggest problems is that Beleth is gone personally. Not because it hurts poor widdle cutsie Blandy (hmmm Iolanthe's writeup has affected me more than I thought) because I'm one of the few, the proud, and the many to say that even if the Bel of Hell's ball redeemed...they're relationship is over. But because the word of fear is missing... Fear is a rarely understood emotion but it like Hunger, Exaustion, Anger, Death, Weakness, and Pain are all part of God's plan...existing well before Lucy decided to take a nose dive off the top of the Pearly gates (okay admittadly someone pushed him). Fear is the warning of danger, the knowing that you are not yet strong enough to overcome something or that something is a VERY bad idea. Lucifer had to corrupt Beleth because if he didn't then Heaven would have crushed him early on, or destroyd his "moral" base. Like andre, she chose one aspect of her word to exalt above all others to the point of corruption...same with Kobal. Hey interesting idea also if anyone ever does Beezlebub, wouldn't he make a great Seraph of Light (Lucifer's second in command?). - -Charlemagne - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 15:51:32 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Falling the other way... (Bal-Elohim) I like these guys. My PCs once encountered, as a one-shot unique "monster", a fallen Elohite that had become convinced that it *was* God. And it did seem to be able to do some very unusual stuff... it has built itself a palace in the Ethereal Plane, and was very dangerous indeed when encountered on its home ground. The episode was very loosely based on "The House that Jack Built" from Grant Morrisson's old _Doom Patrol_ series, if that means anything. I just wanted to use the one line where Red Jack introduces himself... Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 14:38:26 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Falling the other way... Brilliant comic. God's last line before death "Oh, bugger." Got to love it. Of course, the guy probably wasn't God, but then is anyone anything in Doom Patrol, or isn't evryone everything? - ----- Original Message ----- From: Douglas Muir To: Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2000 11:51 AM Subject: Re: IN> Falling the other way... > > The episode was very loosely based on "The House that Jack Built" from > Grant Morrisson's old _Doom Patrol_ series, if that means anything. I just > wanted to use the one line where Red Jack introduces himself... > > > Doug M. > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 23:48:08 +0100 From: Benediktq@t-online.de (Benedikt) Subject: Re: IN> New Heretics.... Brad Julius schrieb: > >A simpler, sadder option is a demon of Fate who knows that he's Fated to be > >destroyed attempting redemption...(But what would his Destiny be?) > > Unfortunately the only Destiny I CAN see for Kronos is self-destruction. CAN Kronos be destroyed? He is (like Yves) a part of God, and I don´t think one can destroy God. Sammael ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 16:57:14 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> An affair of Honor This came to me on my way back from DC. I liked writing it, and I hope the rest of you like reading it. :) Moe Michael's Challenges: An Affair of Honor The Archangel of War was busy re-examining the American election returns when Laurence came in. "A waste of time, Michael. Neither side's acting with much Honor any more." "Too true, but there's always their Electoral College. I don't suppose that we could..." Michael noted Laurence's face beginning to frown. "No. You're right. If we start interfering, so do they, and pretty soon there'll be rioting in the streets. We will have to double our observers, of course. No sense trusting to enlightened self-interest. "Well: to business. Do I see two challenges there?" "Actually, no: just one. It was forwarded to me by Blandine." "Who's it from?" "The envelope doesn't have my name on it, Michael." "Subtle, Laurence. I apologize for the implied insult. Well, let's see who the latest challenger is..." Michael opened the heavy envelope and quickly scanned the contents: one eyebrow quirked. "Well. Well, well, well. This should prove interesting. I presume you've got a free hour or two?" "The challenge is for right now?" "Apparently, he's waiting in the Vale. On our side, no less. We’ll have to swing by the Savannah, first." Laurence's own eyebrow quirked. Michael chuckled. "I wouldn't dream of spoiling the surprise. Are you free?" "If it has to happen right now, yes, I suppose so." "Excellent. We mustn't keep my challenger waiting." The Archangel of War rose, idly sending a message to his Servitors to collect the necessary items for this challenge. "Incidentally, Laurence: is that other item for me as well?" The Archangel of the Sword flushed slightly. "No, Michael. It is ... a personal matter." "You're still getting those? Amazing." Michael's eyes narrowed. "That paper looks familiar. Doesn't the Hyena use it?" "Yes." The statement was final. "Don't tell me he's signed up…" "NO! Not at all!" "Really, Laurence, who else would have access to his personal parchment..." At that moment, Michael _did_ remember who else had access to Dominic's personal parchment, and moreover, would feel free to borrow a page or two. "Ah. It's always the quiet ones. Oh, stop glowering at me, lad. It's your fault for not asking for advice first." Laurence still looked mutinous. Michael sighed. "Fine, fine, I won't bring it up again. And, yes, I apologize for calling you 'lad'. "Now can we get to the challenge?" Part II The field was grassy, empty except for one figure, dressed in full plate mail and hunched in prayer before his sword, his graying hair rustling in the breeze. The sky was blue, the breeze was sweet, and in the distance one could hear birdsong. There actually weren't any birds, but birdsong fit the dreamscape, so birdsong there was. The two figures (both leading a war-horse) that appeared out of nowhere took a moment to take in the scene before they approached the praying knight. *It was surprisingly easy to get the horses, really,* thought Michael. *Of course, these were the two finest war-horses on Earth, ever. They were probably bored out of their minds by now: nothing to do but run around and eat grass. _I_ would be.* The Archangel of War and his companion stopped a respectful enough distance from the knight and waited until he crossed himself. "Good morn, good knight." Arthur, King of All Britain, leader of the Knights of the Round Table, opened his eyes, stood, and bowed. "Good morn, Saint Michael. Good morn, Commander Sir Laurence." Michael looked at his ethereal opponent. Arthur had obviously weathered the machinations of the Media well enough, but there was a hint of pain in the brown eyes. But his hands were steady, and he moved within his armor as if it were made of air. "Have you come then to accept my challenge?" "With an offer so chivalrous, how could I refuse? At your request, I brought also the needed steeds. You wish a tourney, I presume?" "That would be my desire, Saint Michael. For there is great honor to be found when two servants of God and His Son meet on the open field, to strive for their Lord and their love, and to trade blows without malice. I would joust with you, Archangel of War, and meet you sword to sword." "And I you, King Arthur." *Laurence looks likes he's about to sputter at my granting him the title. Respect costs nothing, kid, especially when it's to somebody with this much courage.* "You have no retainers with you, to witness your efforts?" "Alas, as you well know, me and mine are under the Ban. While you were gracious enough to grant me exemption, I did not wish to presume that others would be likewise permitted. At any rate..." - Arthur's lips quirked - "this field is made of dream-stuff. I will need no assistance to mount my steed." "Very well, King Arthur. If you would choose your horse, we shall begin..." At this point, Laurence cleared his throat. "Forgive me, but I must point out that neither has stated what boon they fight for." King Arthur's head cocked quizzically. "Why, I presumed that it would be the traditional prize. The armor and arms of the vanquished would go to the victor, to use as he saw fit. What else would it be?" *What else, indeed. He's carrying Excalibur! Granted, a sword isn't my usual weapon, but wouldn't _that_ look good on the wall... no. Unfair to keep a blade like that out of the service of God. Tough call: do I do the noble thing and give it back to him, or the practical thing and give it to Laurence?* Michael internally frowned. *There's something very, very odd going on here, and somehow I don't think that it really involves me at all.* None of this internal musing showed on his face as he smiled his acceptance of the conditions. "Laurence... it occurs to me that I only brought my axe. Would you be so good as to... thank you." *You needn't look so peeved. I know you carry a backup, and it's not like the blessed thing's unique or anything. You only started using it two days ago.* The two combatants retreated to opposite sides of the field, couched their lances, and waited for Laurence's command to begin their charge. He's looking more cheerful. *Well, he enjoys this sort of thing, and it's mythic, if nothing else.* At Laurence's cry in medieval French, the two immediately galloped towards each other. The lances were padded, of course: this was a joust, not a fight to the death. Michael hadn't jousted in five hundred years, and hadn't been on a horse for nearly that long... which meant absolutely nothing, of course. The two met in the center. Arthur's lance shattered; Michael's did not. The familiar sound of metal clanging echoed across the field. Arthur lay still for a moment, shook himself, and stood. Drawing sword, he declaimed the pro forma statement, "The son of a mare hath failed me" - Arthur's horse looked insulted at that statement; the ethereal took the time to pat his flanks in apology - "but I wot well that my father's sword never shall." Michael nodded and dismounted. *Catch me doing this in an actual battle. Well, the rules are different. Besides, I'd like to see how well he fights.* Michael noted that Arthur had raised his visor in order to kiss his lady's favor. *Catch me doing that _now_. The kid would have a fit.* However, Michael did briefly touch the rose etched in gold silk on his own favor. When both combatants had composed themselves, they saluted each other. Michael stood his ground, letting his opponent come to him: Arthur charged, bellowing war cries as he came. The Archangel had enough time to be particularly bemused at hearing "For God and Saint Michael!" - *Sorry, I've got a conflict of interest here* - before the fight began in earnest. The fight was confusing. Arthur was good, no question about it, but he wasn't that good. Michael knew as much about this style of fighting as he did about every other: that is, everything worth knowing and most of the things that weren't. His major problem was keeping from accidentally striking hard enough to rip off Arthur's arm or head. Michael wasn't exactly toying with the ethereal: his actions were designed to more give a practical lesson or two before he ended it. *The poor guy will need some more expertise, if he's going to lose Excalibur, assuming that I just don't give it back to him. What on earth is going on here? He knows he can't beat me, so why wager the most precious material possession he has?* The Archangel thought about it as he beat off a sudden flurry of blows. *For that matter, he's not even the best fighter of his bunch. The Arthur of the legends was known more for his political acumen...* *Of course. My, my, my: that's a move worthy of me. The kid will be fairly annoyed at me if I let him get away with it, of course.* A shifting of perception showed that the Archangel of the Sword was rapt at the battle. *Big deal: it's a stupid policy, anyway.* *Time to end this.* Michael shifted into full combat mode. A swift beating down of Arthur's upraised sword, followed by a twitch of the shield, and suddenly Arthur's side was exposed. The flat of Michael's sword descended in a blow to the waist that sent the ethereal sprawling. As he began to rise, the point of his opponent's sword lightly tapped Arthur's helm. "Yield, Arthur. Yield with honor." "Well struck, good Saint. Well struck. I yield me. My life and my possessions are in your hands." "Then I give back the life of an honorable fighter of God. As for the possessions, well…" Michael picked up Excalibur. "I am not the leader of the Host. It is not my decision whether or not to deprive it of such a potent weapon." Arthur nodded as Michael presented the sword to a surprised Laurence. "Here, Commander of the Host. This is legitimate prize of battle, to be disposed of at your command." A mild hum - much softer than usual - sounded as the Archangel of the Sword took Excalibur in hand. Michael could tell that Laurence was tempted beyond belief: however, the Archangel's honor wouldn't permit him to violate the conventions. The conventions said nothing about holding on to it for a moment, however, so he took the opportunity to get a good feel for how it fit into his hand. At last, of course, he extended the blade back to Arthur. "Take back thy sword. You have suffered defeat, but not dishonor." Arthur rose to one knee. "I gladly take thy sword, Archangel, and freely pledge it, and that of my vassals, to the service that it represents. "My liege." It was all Michael could do to keep from laughing aloud. Laurence's face had frozen as he mentally reviewed the symbolism of presenting a sword to a defeated foe. Searching for an out, he managed to reply, "Ah… but this is not my Sword, King Arthur. I merely confirm the decision of Michael..." "Your vassal." Michael murmured quietly. Laurence shot him a grateful look. "Yes, my vassal, who has determined to return a noble weapon to its owner. It is ultimately his hands that present it to you, not mine." Michael cleared his throat. "Not to dispute your wisdom, my liege," - Laurence's look was _not_ grateful this time - "but I'm afraid that that is not precisely True. When you took Excalibur, did you not imbue it with a bit of your Word? I did sense that something of the sort happened." At Laurence's eloquent silence, Michael continued. "Thus, in a very real sense, the Sword stopped being Arthur's and became yours at that moment. And, seeing as you returned it to him, and seeing as I am your vassal (dare I say, your Champion?), and seeing as your actions show striking similarities to your usual induction of new Servitors to your service... "Well, I don't think that Sir Arthur can be much blamed for assuming that you were offering to let him swear fealty. And who would not serve such a noble knight and War leader, if given the opportunity to accept that boon?" *A little butter never hurts. A shame it's wasted.* "Of course, if you personally wish to refuse it..." *he enters my service in a heartbeat. This is one prize I take with both hands. Think about it, Laurence: do you want him working for you, or for me? Because he's working for one of us, whether you like it or not.* What Laurence might have said next would never be known, for at that moment a Wheel of the Wind chose to suddenly blast into the scene and skid down half the length of the field. When the smoke cleared, the Wheel had taken on a mortal form - in a page's outfit, no less. Her breath was ragged as she spoke. " Bro... Commander Laurence, Lord Michael, you're needed at the Council! Lord Janus says it's urgent!" *Lily's being formal. This could be bad.* Michael opened his mouth, remembered that he was supposed to be a loyal vassal, and let Laurence speak first. "What is it, Lady Lily? Has there been an attack, or a disaster?" The Ofanite shook her head. "No, Commander. It's the Ladder. Someone's descended from it!" Both Archangels blinked at the news. "What's more, I don't know who it is, but... He has the GRAIL!" "Ah." The sound interrupted the three celestials. Arthur had not moved from his position of submission - and strength - but his eyes were bright. "That would be Galahad." ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1919 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.