From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Nov 18 21:30:41 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20347 for ; Sat, 18 Nov 2000 21:30:40 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id VAA24458 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 18 Nov 2000 21:30:46 -0600 Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 21:30:46 -0600 Message-Id: <200011190330.VAA24458@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1928 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, November 18 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1928 In this digest: Re: IN>The Demon of Taxes Re: IN>Hi IN> Taxes and motivation Re: IN> Selflessness vs. Selfishness Re: IN> Selflessness vs. Selfishness Re: IN> Selflessness vs. Selfishness Re:IN> The Angel of Communism (not a writeup) IN> The Angel of Taxes, another take Abracadabra (was Re: IN> Selflessness vs. Selfishness) Re: IN> Re: An Affair of Honor Re: IN> Re: An Affair of Honor IN> The Archangel of Time part II Re: Abracadabra (was Re: IN> Selflessness vs. Selfishness) IN> The Demon of Truth ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 03:11:12 -0800 From: Charles E Smith Subject: Re: IN>The Demon of Taxes Shouldn't that be Ethereal Forces 6? And Celestial Forces 5, plus 2 additional characteristic points there.<<< Thanks Beth. :) I still don't have the books, so I guess and rely on corrections like this. :) BTW everyone, it was not my intention to spark any arguments over the subject. Irstia was just a quirky idea I had (and this whole debate over selflessness and selfishness has given me two more). I hope there are no hard feelings over this character or what she represents. :) Charles Smith. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 11:27:20 -0500 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: Re: IN>Hi > Can the Balseraph of > Fate Attunement and the Master of Divine > Knowledge Distinction provide a celestial with > the resonances of: > a) Grigori?>> > > Fnord. Ask someone else. > > <> > > Fnord. All this was eratted in GURPS IN and the answer is a very cop-outish "maybe." What it actually said is that there were no known cases of Balseraphs with the Grigori resonance or one from a minor choir, but that Kronos _might_ be able to do this. Also, if any Balseraphs of Fate had this resonance, they would doubtlessly be keeping really quiet about it. So, in the end, I guess it's up to the GM. Later. Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 13:35:24 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Taxes and motivation I pay my taxes because it's what I do.... Jail is a note about it but I don't fight them and work to undo them because I would go to jail, I don't fear that, I don't fight them because they DO GO to help people with food stamps, education, and the like. That's why I don't want taxes to dissapear. As for motivation, I think in Heaven Eli and a number of Archangels have beliefs that kinduv poke holes in David's theory. God has not commanded you to be unselfish, God has commanded you to be Good. God does not like people who starve themselves in order to feed others, in a perfect world everyone should have enough to eat. Sacrafice is a beutiful thing but it's painful, even for the good. Just .02 - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 15:15:29 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Selflessness vs. Selfishness >>This is probably why we don't see too many selfless >>angels actually being written (officially or >>unofficially); it's hard for us humans to wrap >>our minds around the concept that being selfless DOES >>mean giving away all your money, and that wanting to >>keep something for yourself and enjoy the finer >>things in life IS inherently selfish. (Not evil; >>selfish.) >>- -David > >Thank you ever so much, Mr. Edelstein. Now I have to >try (I'm a perennial anthropomorphizer), just to see >if I actually _can_...* > >:) > >Moe Here's a general IN thing I've been wondering about for a bit, and it fits nicely into this thread. There may be a question buried in here somewhere, but on the other hand I may just be sending an Essence to the Ofanite Angel of Rambling. ;^) It's about the whole concept of Words and Word-promotion. The minute an angel gets a Word, what does it do? According to every description in canon, it immediately goes about promoting that Word, not only in the service of Heaven, but to increase its own power and Forces. It *has* to support a Word decreasing in strength, because it loses power with its Word, and could possibly disappear entirely. Thus, it might almost seem like Words are inherently *selfish* objects. Now, there's obviously a certain balance here. Michael probably has the connections, should he wish to use them, to plunge the Earth into an immediate state of high-tension, near-nuclear warfare on a global scale(couple governments here, couple terrorists there, a few accusations in the Security Council meeting), thus skyrocketing the Word-forces(should he really want them) of War. But he doesn't. Eli could walk up to a respected group of scientists, have himself sealed in a carefully-weighed glass box, and then use Abracadabra to his heart's content, thereby increasing the weight of the box and overturning the Law of Conservation of Mass-Energy -- once the results were published(along with verifiable procedures for contacting Eli and having an angel with the same attunement assigned to the lab for replication of the results), the Word of Creation would receive a substantial boost. But he doesn't. Obviously, the reason they don't is because they're not selfish about it. Doing these things wouldn't serve Heaven right now, so they don't. I guess lesser Word-Bound are chosen with a careful eye toward how well they'll balance the need to keep their Word viable with the realization that, while the Council decided a certain Word needed to be strengthened, maybe there's only a certain level of strength the Symphony needs; trying to promote your Word regardless of the consequences has doubtless led to a number of Falls. My point? I dunno. An observation for the list, I suppose. A certain selfishness seems to be part of being Word-Bound. Does this seem strange(or even true) to you? William ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 13:42:26 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Selflessness vs. Selfishness > I may just be sending an Essence to the Ofanite Angel >of Rambling. ;^) > Much appreciated :) I agree with most of your observations. I think however that angelic Word bounds aren't selfish, but focused. All angels serve the will of Heaven through the Word of their Superior, and when they get their own Word through it. Basically it determines the methodology of serving Heaven they are best at, and gives them a bonus in defending that part. For demons a Word represents the ultimate expression of self, mastery over a piece of the real Symphony. They promote the Word to increase how much of the Symphony they have mastery over. The fact that it helps Hell's cause is incidental, and a good way to keep Asmodeus off your back. That's just my take. - -- Timothy, Angel of Rambling Ofanite of Creation ArchRival of Mathus If you have time to kill, why not kill it at http://ucsub.Colorado.edu/~grothtp/In.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 15:47:11 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Selflessness vs. Selfishness At 3:15 PM -0500 11/18/00, William J. Keith wrote: >My point? I dunno. An observation for the list, I suppose. A certain >selfishness seems to be part of being Word-Bound. Does this seem >strange(or even true) to you? I think it's accurate enough, though.... Hm. Here's an alternate take. Not necessarily any more accurate. In fact, maybe less accurate. But different. A Word is a filter through which an Angel sees the Symphony, even as a Word redefines a Demon's selfish personal Symphony. Where a Demon claws for power, making the Word greater to increase themselves, an Angel drives to make the Word that the Seraphim Council has entrusted to him as powerful and prominant as possible, always in an angelic way. Which is why Michael isn't out starting pointless Wars. Instead, he's striving to promote a Heavenly Ideal of War -- Might *for* Right, instead of Might Makes Right. He has been entrusted with War, on Heaven's behalf, and he serves perfectly. Just another take. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: 18 Nov 2000 22:41:20 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re:IN> The Angel of Communism (not a writeup) On Fri, 17 Nov 2000 17:32:28 -0500 Whistling in the Dark wrote: [snip good story seed] >Without getting the pus kicked out of him by a flight of Stone >Malakim, naturally. man, ain't it great Stonies can't hit first? :) seriously, this sounds like a fabulous campaign idea. i'd love to play in it or run with it to some extent or another. i think the primary antagonits would be Asmodeus and Kronos when the angel gets his crew together and working earthside. -=|horsefly|=- God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 17:43:43 -0500 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: IN> The Angel of Taxes, another take A slightly less silly version of the AoT: Sharezerel Elohite Friend of Trade Angel of Tithes Corp: 2 Str: 2 Agi: 6 Etherial: 5 Int-10 Pre-10 Celestial: 4 Will- 4 Per-12 Vessel: Human /4 Role: Harry Capax /5 (tax accountant) Skills: Bureaucracy/3, Computer Operation /2, Economics /6 Mathmatics /6, Fast Talk /3 Songs: Charm (Celestial /3), Harmony (Ethereal /5), Tongues (Corporeal /6) Attunements: Elohite of Trade, Friend of the Shareholders, Angel of Tithes Special Rites: As Angel of Tithes, "Harry" gains Essence when he convinces a formerly unwilling person to pay a just tax or tithe. If he is responsible for the passage of such a tax into law, he gets 2 Essence. Sharezerel's Word is better translated as "the giving of money for the greater good, in exchange for the greater good giving to you." This concept includes tithing, taxes, and the simple pooling of resources. Because of the implications in Earthly languages, however, his Word is usually translated as Tithes. In the modern day, "Harry" works an uphill battle. While ideally in his eyes all taxes would be voluntary, Harry does recognize that humans tend to be selfish and sometimes need a little prodding to see the need of the community. To this end he encourages such things as social programs, socialized medicine, and the like, with as fair as possible taxes to support them. This does not go so far as to include the idea of "pay this or go to jail", present in income taxes and the like, although he has no qualms about "pay this or we won't be particularly hasty about sending out firefighters or police". If you aren't holding up your end of the bargain, you don't get the benifit, after all. Harry is also one of the prime instigators and supporters of communism as an economic system (far before the idea had ever occurred to Marx), which gives him the unique status of being one of the few Servitors of Trade with whom David can get along, as an ideal communism supports Stone quite nicely. It is not unknown for David to request a favor of Sharezerel directly, and Sharezerel almost always follows through. For his part, Marc encourages this; as hostile as David is to Trade, a go-between that won't be hounded by Malakites of Stone is damn useful. His word is not overly powerful thanks to the work of the Demon of Taxes and the hundreds of pointless or unjust taxes she's taken a hand in spawning, but the existence of stable communes, church offerings, and the like keep it steady. In Heaven, Sharezerel also takes on the task of "reminding" angels with valuable relics and the like of those who might need them more. This is rarely needed, given the nature of angels, but Dominic keeps tabs on those that Sharezerel needs to remind more than once... - --- damienw[et]juno.com "SOY! Soy makes you strong! Strength crushes enemies! SOY!" ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 18:37:32 -0500 From: "Jason F. McBrayer" Subject: Abracadabra (was Re: IN> Selflessness vs. Selfishness) On Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 03:15:29PM -0500, William J. Keith wrote: > Eli could walk up to a respected group of scientists, have himself > sealed in a carefully-weighed glass box, and then use Abracadabra to > his heart's content, thereby increasing the weight of the box and > overturning the Law of Conservation of Mass-Energy Presumably the law of conservation of mass-energy is a special case of the law of conservation of mass-energy-essence (or mass-energy- disturbance), which Jean considers humans insufficiently advanced to have access to. Of course, this if that's the case, then there's the possibility for Vapulan artifacts that generate essence either by tapping sources of Corporeal energy (wall outlets, nuclear reactors, hamster wheels) or by disintegrating Corporeal objects. Then again, maybe that's how the Sorcerous 'sacrifice for essence' skill works, though if it were, Fluffy would have to disappear completely rather than bleeding on the drop cloth/newspapers that the sorceror put out for the purpose. Hmmm... - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@carcosa.net | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 16:16:51 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Re: An Affair of Honor Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 18:07:09 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: An Affair of Honor At 4:11 PM -0500 11/17/00, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>Besides, Gabriel's an Ofanite, and "long term >>relationship" for an Ofanite means that they visit >>for a few seconds every few minutes... O:> >I have this hideous image of Michael and David >sitting and pigging out on ice cream, with Michael >saying "I feel so *used.* She never even took off her >*shoes.* Next time, I'm going to just tell her no >way -- you'll see!" Ow. Ow. Ow. Don't DO that! :) Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 16:36:07 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Re: An Affair of Honor Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 16:45:07 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Re: An Affair of Honor >An eagle would look at at Michael and think "female"; >with them, the females are bigger and stronger. >Earl Actually, an eagle* would look at Michael and think, "Be polite. Be very, very polite with this one, dumb**s." :) Seriously, though, it's a good point, although I'll probably keep on anthropomorphizing, unless I want to make a point or something. More fun to write stuff that way (at least for me. YMMV). Moe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 19:49:22 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Archangel of Time part II Superior Opinions Heavengly: Blandine: The Ethereal realms are completely seperate from time save what mortals wish to apply to them. Isaac holds an important position in the mortal symphony but our words rarely interact. "Beutiful Beutiful Beutiful Blandine, how you have remained timeless in your lovely realm enjoying both the fruits of the memories past and guiding mortals to the dreams of the future. My hand is not needed though I wish you would acknowledge the glorious present." Christopher: Sometimes I wish he didn't exist while other times I'm grateful for his presence. I guess I'm just accepting. "All children have to grow up but when they do they give birth to new children. Such is the way of things." David: Stone is long lived and thus I have a stronger appreciation for his word which breaks down even the rock but allows it to calcify into mountains if given time again anew. He will strengthen us well if given enough time. "Patience is a virtue when dealing with David and he is one of the few among the Archangels who can really appreciate the magnitude of the wait we must endure. There is more wisdom to him than commonly ascribed." Dominic: Who is this angel who claims to know the will of God and what shall come to pass? He manipulates and defies the Symphony in ways that I do not like and suspect to be extremely close to the ways of the Enemy. His views must be changed or he will fall as surely far as Lucifer. "Dominic lives in the Fall and the Final Judgement has not moved a single step out of those momments since they occured simultaneously. Judgement is black and white, 2 + 2 equals 4, and extremely linear....it is the fruit of many things but he must acknowledge as even I a fellow Seraph has, that some things have no clear cut answers and must be flowed with." Eli: Great guy. I'm glad he finally found a word he could enjoy....ooops I got cofee in Tawain, Tah. "Eli is an excellent fellow and knows the potentiality for bringing about great things....I just wish he'd stop trying to give me a heart attack with promises of a time machine." Gabrielle: Time burns brightly across each being crushing mountains, giants, towns, kings, and Archangels....yet this fire is what tempers their steel....I glimpse the depths of his mind and enjoy dwelling there. "Beutiful noble prophetess who is the fiery apex of change, passion, and cleansing. She is everything one might desire in an angel and time will tell all what will occur to her. I have only glimpsed an ounce but I remain in awe." Janus: Like I always said, the Seraphim Council has to keep with the times and finally here's a guy to help them do it. Sure he's alittle straighter than the folks I usually hang with but he's got a good idea of what I'm all about. "The winds of change as strong a part of time as the patience and stability of stone. We are all indepeted to Janus for his occasional "flights" of fancy." Jean: For an angel who is working to the same goal I am objectively, he stands as a marked impediment to my goals. "Jean is a creature of the future having moved from the past but he stands as a marked enemy of the natural flow of time if he does not cease 'tweeking' humanity's technological and social advancement....I am fine for stopping Vapula but he interferes with forces he can neither comprehend nor appreciate. The results could be disasterous." Jordi: I find him disasteful. Time is something that animals know well but his interpretations leave a sour taste in my mouths. "Jordi is a creature entirely of the past and intends to firmly remain there...I wonder if he regrets being the one to discover vessels. The Dinosaurs were doomed from the momment they were born as were the Dodo as will be others...other races will replace most but try to set yourself in the way of God's will Jordi...and you will be torn to shreds that even you cannot reform from." Khalid: All is predestined, that so few recognize this is foolish. "Khalid has strong opinions about the nature of time and while I appreciate such firm interest, I disagree with some of his conclusions. Still I percieve that faith in Khalid will be rewarded in the future and his past transgressions have been learned from....I hope such is repeated for all regarding him." Laurence: I wish I could understand him but there are some mysteries I'm fine with just being revealed....besides he's an excellent resource as is. "The time of knights was a bloody, violent, short lived affair where religeon was the justification rather than the detterent or inspiration for the most part...yet Laurence's soul is indeed honorable and I have seen the crucible he is to pass through, I pray he suceeds and takes his prize for the ordeal." Litheroy: Finally someone who can help me unearth the mysteries that have physically had all traces removed of. We are of the same mind and ours is an alliance that will not end until all secrets are revealed. "The cycle of abuse and destruction ignorance fosters of the lessons of the Past is something Litheroy is the complete enemy of...and the mysteries of the future he would trumpet to the score of the world if he could. His is a friendship I value greatly." Marc: As long as my people get to work on time and meetings are properly scheduled, he and I get along fine. "He's organized, I'll give him that." Michael: I mistrust his ties to Yves because there is only one end to the universe and that is our standing victorious. I will give him the benifit of the doubt however. Novalis: Mmmmm I like him, he helps me grow and compost and mortals to feel. "The giving of love, peace, friendship, and cheer is a part of the cycle more than people often realize...I know what the world was like without Laughter and Love and Novalis has taken more than the lion's share of the lost words." Yves: He understands a great truth about the symphony that quite a bit depends on one's own perspective, I see a bright destiny for him. "If my word is the progression of the Symphony toward an end, it is he and all my efforts are toward bringing this truth about." Zadkiel: We rarely interact much but he protects some important beings and I suppose that is enough. "Gabriel and Novalis's martial discipline, the femmine to Laurence's masculine aspect of part of the War. Intriguing is her potential future and more important than people usually recognize." Hellish: Alameon: He represents a dire threat to my plans. What is past and gone should remain so buried. "If Alameon had his way, the universe would be an endless repeating cycle of ignorance and treachery. All secrets are able to be revealed though by simply being one with what is to come and what is past. His power is nothing but a delusion." Andrephalus: My uses for time and delays are a bit more "inventive" than Heaven would like to think possible. He's no fun and safely ignorable....my second favorite type of angel. "Andrephalus is a vile depraved thing as much of history and much of the future will show but he was not always such...pinpointing what made him what he is in time will correct this abberation in the Symphony." Asmodeus: Time is useful for it lends a sense of urgency but divide how you wish the Game into rounds, turns, or seasons....it still remains Eternal. "Asmodeus plays for stakes higher than he possibly imagines and ticks ever closer to the final round where he will lose everything or cash his chips in....the future is not set for him but even I admit it looks bleak." Baal: Another snivelling bureaucrat Archangel to muddy the waters between my war with Michael. My soldiers know coordination and strength and his insepid predictions are worthless as mad Gabriel's without the sting. "Baal cycles repeatably through his mindset during the fall and will continue to do so until it is interrupted with the blade of a sword or with the clarity of truth...Armageddon is not the destiny he holds." Beleth: He is an annoyance and one I would prefer not to deal with...kill hi s servitors where you can and corrupt them when you will...they're knowledge I wish to possess to make the Nightmares everlong. "All beings wake up from nightmares Beleth...even you and the dawn will slay you if you do not become less than shadow." Belial: You can't burn time, what a cheesy word. *flame thrower sounds* "All fires are eventually extinguished by Newton's law of thermo-dynamics...Belial is the same. Only Gabrielle's fire is eternal." Fufur: Hardcore Time...hmmm....Michael J. Fox...wussy boy....H.G. Wells...puss....Terminator...ALRIGHT! "Teenagers pass eventually through the perils of adolescence into the wisdom of adulthood...unless they die first. Such is with Fufur the truth." Haagenti: Mmmm Dinner Time..... "Haagenti is a greater threat than anyone realizes, stop him before he devours the very universe itself." Kobal: Okay now this is funny. At first glance we have generally sweet amusing Seraph who combines all the dullest aspects of Novalis and Dominic...hehhe that's a comparison right there...add a dash of Elohite. Stir well and sick on Kronos. Hilarity ensues as said figure is not necessarily destroyed on the spot! HAHAHA....well I think it's funny. "God gave Kobal a special task, this I saw. What shall emerge I am forbidden to tell." Kronos: HE IS *WRONG*. This creature stands in the way of Fate and claims to see the future as it is to be not what it may be...his predictions are flawed, his ideas the ranting of a madman, and his workings an affront to my order. Slay them as if Yves and bring them before me to crush. "Kronos is indeed a clock...he is a nonfunctioning one that is stuck at the stroke of midnight binging every momment at the witching hour for all eternity. It is this unspringed coil in the clockwork of the Symphony that makes Hell such as it is and why it must be of paramount importance to remove it." Lilith: Mmmm another new costumer. "God did not make a mistake with Lilith, this I am sure of....though admittadly I have yet to follow the strains of the path which would reveal exactly HOW the lady isn't....I am confident she has a purpose as beutiful as she should be." Malphas: Given time even the most strong friendships and loves will grow apart but the heat of the momment is the true ally to reveal in startling clarity just how little alliance means. "Patience, Foresight, and Hindsight will undo anything Malphas may offer or think to." Mammon: Time is unnecessary since stocks can be traded 24 hours a day....ignore the fool. "All his possessions shall be reduced to dust and he will be left crying over the resulting desert....this I have forseen and thus shall it come to be." Nybbas: Time is a beutiful thing. Scheduling! Time slots! Television Seasons! Weekly updates! Where would I be without it? It's people like this guy who keep the whole shebang running, now if he can only tone down the whole cryptic wise man Obi Wan/Old Gypsy bit and add some shouting predestined doom and we've got ourselves a good guy for predicting trends! "I am not a man of violence by nature but there is little that galls me more than watching this little impudite and his enforcement of mankind's most heinous acts. Wasting time is something that has always made me violently ill but this man does what Meserach could only have dreamed of!" Saminga: The Dead are Immortal! "Saminga's undead desires are an oxymoron to the natural flow of time and thus a paradox....slay them all and allow their souls and their bodies to rejoin with the Symphony to once again decay and grow in the cycle." Valefor: Where does the time go? Ask me. "I have the one word he cannot effect....and I intend to keep him from trying." Vapula: Time travel is an intriguing concept and the idea of directly bringing back objects in the future or altering the past to destroy all that stands in the way of the progression of science before it becomes a threat is an intriguing one...hmmm let me see...nuclear reaction...chronotons...ahh...VERY interesting. "All that I fear Jean might do and unrepetantadly. Vapula is too uncoordinated to divine what I fear most he might of the Symphony but one never knows when such a thing might occur by accident...well usually. I will make sure his works never rise past theory." Soldiers: The servitors of the Celestial realms are well aware of the War and who they serve and for better or for ill this is the way it should be. It is one of my ultimate goals that I work for that each human may someday as they percieve the realm of time for what it truly is. I have seen that someday this will be the case....and thus no choices exist save what time dictates. Ethereals: The Ethereals are not anything inherently debased or corrupt by themselves but are mere reflections of the memories and desires of humanity given life. Such things should be cultivated as allies and redeemed for insight into the mindsets of the past and alliance of such for the future....in the meantime keeping them from the Earth is merely a stalling tactic. Humanity: Time will tell what God's plan is for this race but actions in the past lean towards the idea it is something great. The Cathedral of Isaac The Clocktower The Clocktower exists in the Eternal City as one of the most foreboding and large appearing structures present. This reflects Isaac's belief that the passage of time need always be visible. The clock itself posseses a odd set of four hands which detail the time in Hell and on Earth and then the hands of Heaven appear as whatever those Heavengly residents wish to see. The exception in Heaven is those demons who might go around it clocked, for them the clock is a perfect midnight that chimes with bells that inflict a point of discord for everyone in hearing distance of it per round. The clocktowers insides are full of strange arcane gears that serve as both methods of transportation, homes, and offices. Along the walls are clocks in which hearts are hidden and of which special doorways to simulated times may be taken for relaxation, comtemplation, and thought. Most servitors of other words find the place quite strange. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 20:37:55 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: Abracadabra (was Re: IN> Selflessness vs. Selfishness) >On Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 03:15:29PM -0500, William J. Keith wrote: > >> Eli could walk up to a respected group of scientists, have himself >> sealed in a carefully-weighed glass box, and then use Abracadabra to >> his heart's content, thereby increasing the weight of the box and >> overturning the Law of Conservation of Mass-Energy > >Presumably the law of conservation of mass-energy is a special case of >the law of conservation of mass-energy-essence (or mass-energy- >disturbance), which Jean considers humans insufficiently advanced to >have access to. To angels, I think that "natural law" is not quite so binding a concept as human scientists conceptualize it. God is Natural Law, in that whatever He wants to happen, will. Of course, others may argue in turn that God Himself follows the laws of His nature, and that these are your basic "physical laws," the way humans picture them. These "laws" have to do with the nature of God and the Symphony, and so would sound more like philosophy than physics to a mortal observer. >Of course, this if that's the case, then there's the possibility for >Vapulan artifacts that generate essence either by tapping sources of >Corporeal energy (wall outlets, nuclear reactors, hamster wheels) or >by disintegrating Corporeal objects. Then again, maybe that's how the >Sorcerous 'sacrifice for essence' skill works, though if it were, >Fluffy would have to disappear completely rather than bleeding on the >drop cloth/newspapers that the sorceror put out for the purpose. >Hmmm... I always figured Abracadabra didn't generate matter from Essence; rather, it tapped a small amount of the power of God as Creator. If there exists even one infinitely massive or energetic object in some system, a Law of Conservation of Mass-Energy is meaningless, since if you have an infinitude of some unit in a system, adding any finite set of such units does not change the cardinality of the set of such units that exist. I don't find it difficult to imagine the In Nomine God as infinitely energetic, or at least having access to an infinite amount of energy, and most conceptions of God are as omnipresent, and thus He would be present in all systems. An alternative formulation would be that God is potentiality, as in Destiny, Fate, and the term potentiality as used in canon, and Abracadabra merely collapses a possible potential that already existed. Essentially the same as above. See what I mean about sounding more like philosophy than physics? ;^) >-- >+----------------------------------------------------------------+ >| Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@carcosa.net | >| The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | >| forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | William ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 22:28:42 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Demon of Truth Moriel Duke of the Shattered Mind Captain of the Broken Promise Captain of Integrity Knight of Influence Balseraph of Fate The Demon of Truth Cor-5 Str-8 Agil-12 Eth-6 Int-12 Pre-12 Cel-6 Will-12 Per-12 Vessel: Human 6/, Raven 2/ Servant: Judges, Lawyers, Preachers, and Newspaper men 1-6/ Skills: Computer Operation 4/, Detect Lie 6/, Dodge 4/, Emote 6/, Economics 5/, Fast Talk 6/, Fighting 3/, Law 5, Savoir Faire 5/, Seduction 5/, Tactics 5/, Tracking 3/ Lgn (English 5, Latin 5, Greek 4, French 4/, German 3/, Japanese 3/, Russian 4/ and many forgotton dead lanquages 3/) Songs: Song of Attraction (Corporeal 3/, Ethereal 6/), Song of Charm (Corporal 5/, Ethereal 6/, Celestial 6/), Song of Healing (Corporeal 5/, Celestial 5/), Song of Possesion 5/, Song of Shields (Corporeal 3/, Celestial 4/), Song of Tongues 5/ Artifacts: Ring of Mindscan 4/ Attunement: Balseraph of Fate (Seraphim Resonance), Captain of the Infernal Hourglass, Captain of the Shattered Promise, Captain of Integrity, Confession, Duke of the Shattered Mind, Fated Future, Habbalah of Fate, Humanity, Impudite of Fate, Imbrologio, Knight of the Winged Chariot, Knight of Influence, Suffer in Silence, Temporeal Projection...and others. Word Forces: 16 Confident: This odd ability for a demon is insideously useful for it allows Moriel to compell others to consider him a trusted friend or at least someone who can be told something horrid about their past that is eating them up inside. With a resisted will roll the demon will cause the person they look upon with the expenditure of three essence to spill their guts regarding anything that they fill guilty about. Suffer in Silence: The reverse of Confident is the ability that causes a person to avoid speaking about something that they know whether they had an affair or that they witnessed a murder. Suffer in Silence has the added benifit to Servitors Moriel bestows the gift upon to cause no end of emotional stress especially when the victems have born witness to something obscenely horrible. The usage of the attunement requires a resisted will roll and the expenditure of three essence. Special rites: * Reveal a truth that causes no end of horrible suffering (1-3 essence regarding the level of suffering) * Learn a secret that could cause someone no end of suffering. Moriel is one of the most powerful non-Superior demons in Hell and certainly one of the most sucessful by the litany of titles that follow his every introduction into a in the land of darkness. Moriel was orginally an newborn Seraph of Light when the revolt in Heaven began to stir, Moriel was pitying the mortals for the suffering on Earth that he could no longer aid due to God's ban on Earthly intervention. Attending his Lord's almost nightly meetings on the truth, Lucifer's words began to make sense to him in ways that startled and more than alittle horrofied Moriel. The Seraphim turned fully against God when his Archangel's words revealed something that he could not help but believe was true despite his very form rebelling against it...the truth of God was not necessarily the truth for all and perhaps even any. During the war in Heaven he tore at his fellow angels with a vengence before he witnessed Michael cast down his lord and he fled into the night, his beliefs suddenly deeply called into question. In the darkness of Hell he approached his Dark Lord and asked him if he could lay to rest the doubt in his mind. "Moriel, you alone among my surviving servitors know the beuty and power of truth and thus I charge you to reveal it to all." to which Lucifer placed upon him the word of Truth. Moriel then realized that God's truth was only part of it and became the living embodiment of the revelation of truth that destroys....realizing that Heaven was filled with liars and that their lies were damning all the world....so be it for Hell would be where all lies were revealed for they were, not honeycombed and sweet as in Heaven thus he vowed. Moriel served under Prince Gebbeleth for many years as he played the part of the wandering traveller specializing in the corruption of priests of whom he revealed by logic that the Gods were corrupt and vile...leaching instead of nuturing. When Gebbeleth dissapeared Moriel found himself in the service of Malphas where for years he played upon the vanity of rulers and legalists which caused men to fall upon each other with knives. It is said in this time that Moriel was an advisor to the Pharoah Rames the Second where he pointed out that the God of the Hebrews threatened terrible things and that it would be horrofic for him to need to bow under pressure to let them go....and thus caused the deaths of many many more for horror was the only way to do so. Moriel specialized in making sure that people followed the letter of the law rather than the spirit as he viewed it as a great slap in the face of Heaven which would fail such. As the religeon of Israel grew stronger Moriel served in it as a Rabbi as he did serve as priest in others and Malphas gladly gave him up to Asmodeus who gave great tribute to have the Word of Truth underneath him and Moreil gained many powerful servitors such as Legalism, Blind Devotion, and Broken Oaths. Moriel finally made his last move to service of another Prince when he took himself and all his servitors to the new Prince that he saw embodied all the truth of the Symphony and the will of Hell....Kronos. Asmodeus bears Moriel a grudge still for this outrage but as yet has refused to jeopardize his ally's new great state for his own vengence. Moriel himself now serves less as a direct agent on Earth but a manipulator of many demons both experienced and newborn...not to mention a vertible army of Hellsworn and unwitting dupes. Moriel in Kronos's library specializes in making sure that questionable activities are promoted but these "hard decisions" are never understood by the mortal man....all because of the fundamental flaw of God in Moriel's opinion of not making himself or his will completely known to his followers....Moriel thus considers himself still righteous and his followers have a tendancy to follow this twisted belief themselves. As it can be imagined, Moriel is hated by literally every Seraphim in the Symphony in some ways. Even the most newly fledged Seraph can know exactly who and what Moriel is from the momment they spy him if not for the precautions he has learned to make sure to take. Michael and Dominic both have groups specifically devoted to tracking Moriel down and destroying him utterly though neither group works with the other and some believe even quiet sabotage has occured between the two...though that must be false. In any case...beware. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1928 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.