From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Nov 22 21:32:25 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01659 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2000 21:32:25 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id VAA05979 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 22 Nov 2000 21:32:39 -0600 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 21:32:39 -0600 Message-Id: <200011230332.VAA05979@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1935 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, November 22 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1935 In this digest: Re: Abracadabra (was Re: IN> Selflessness vs. Selfishness) Re: IN> Zadkiel Seed Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) Re: IN> They Shall Not Be Forgotten! Re: IN> They Shall Not Be Forgotten! IN> A Deeper Glimpse into Flowers Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) Re: IN> They Shall Not Be Forgotten! Re: IN> A Deeper Glimpse into Flowers Re: Abracadabra (was Re: IN> Selflessness vs. Selfishness) IN> The Dystopias of Asmodeus Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) Re: IN> New Songs... Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) Re: IN> New Songs... Re: IN> Angel of Non-Sequiturs Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) IN> Impudites of Lust Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) IN> The Archangel of Death IN> Real-life variant In Nomine scenario IN> Turkey for you, turkey for me... Re: IN> Historical Magic Re: IN> Servitor Attunements, Superiors, and Rambling ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 01:01:03 -0500 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: Abracadabra (was Re: IN> Selflessness vs. Selfishness) On Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:27:04 -0500 Earl Wajenberg writes: > And all he'd have to do to counter the effect of too many > extra socks would be to destroy something else, e.g. some > nuclear waste, or back issues of old magazines. But I > suppose destroying things is the one thing he can't do. > (Hey, maybe he could destroy hack novels.) Destroying is just another form of creation.:) - --- damienw[et]juno.com "SOY! Soy makes you strong! Strength crushes enemies! SOY!" ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 01:20:49 -0500 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Zadkiel Seed On Tue, 21 Nov 2000 14:32:53 -0800 (PST) Michael Walton writes: > > --- damienw@juno.com wrote: > > Big Wings, Small Mouth? > Ooooo... you're gonna pay for that one, Damien. Block/adsorb/dissipate. :) - --- damienw[et]juno.com "SOY! Soy makes you strong! Strength crushes enemies! SOY!" ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 01:17:34 -0500 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) On Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:52:53 -0500 Elizabeth McCoy writes: > At 5:41 PM -0500 11/20/00, Charles Phipps wrote: > >Well now that we know what Caine's been up to...let's check on old > Abel dear > >boy. > [...] > >Cor-3 Str-6 Agi-6 > >Eth-5 Int-8 Pre-12 > >Cel-5 Will-8 Per-12 > > See CPG errata -- humans _still_ max out at 10, not 12. > http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/errata/corporeal.html > > (Why? Because they're still humans, not angels without a resonance.) OTOH, wouldn't Cain & Abel be sort of a special case? Being older than dirt and probably half-Etherial from their very special position in one of the archetypical legends... - --- damienw[et]juno.com "SOY! Soy makes you strong! Strength crushes enemies! SOY!" ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 17:29:29 +1100 From: "Azrael/Demigouge" Subject: Re: IN> They Shall Not Be Forgotten! [...] > Teraphim Check Digit Results > > 1: The subject will do anything that doesn't violate his or her morals. > 2: The subject will do anything that (s)he has done and enjoyed before. > 3: The subject will do something that (s)he has fantasized about doing. > 4: The subject will do anything that (s)he has done before. > 5: The subject will do anything that (s)he has seen or heard about. > 6: The subject will do anything that the demon suggests. [...] Does anyone else think that these are somewhat out of order? Chances are that if it has been done and enjoyed before then it doesnt violate the morals of the person, possibly this holds true for the has done before, but perhaps not. Demigouge ------------------------------ Date: 22 Nov 2000 11:22:31 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> They Shall Not Be Forgotten! On Wed, 22 Nov 2000 17:29:29 +1100 Azrael/Demigouge wrote: >> Teraphim Check Digit Results >> 1: The subject will do anything that doesn't violate his or her morals. >> 2: The subject will do anything that (s)he has done and enjoyed before. >> 3: The subject will do something that (s)he has fantasized about doing. >> 4: The subject will do anything that (s)he has done before. >> 5: The subject will do anything that (s)he has seen or heard about. >> 6: The subject will do anything that the demon suggests. >[...] >Does anyone else think that these are somewhat out of order? >Chances are that if it has been done and enjoyed before then it >doesnt violate the morals of the person, possibly this holds true > for the has done before, but perhaps not. actually, i think this table makes perfect sense as written, because people often times engage in pleasureable behavior against the strictures of their own morals. besides, a CD of 1 could get a man to kiss his wife, but another woman? forget about it. that's why a CD 2 "please kiss me" would work just fine, since kissing has presumably been done and enjoyed before. that's my two cents, anyway. -=|horsefly|=- "It was a different time: a time of blood and guns and killings.... It was a time when killers needed saints, for so much of God's good work was being done." --SAINT OF KILLERS #4, Garth Ennis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 01:09:25 -0800 From: Charles E Smith Subject: IN> A Deeper Glimpse into Flowers Novalis, the Archangel of Flowers, is perhaps one of the most misunderstood Archangels in Heaven. It is easy to classify such Archangels as Michael and Laurence. Michael is the proud Champion of Heaven, dedicated to winning the War against the demons. Laurence is Heaven's knight-errant, sworn to lead the armies of Heaven to victory and honor in the name of his Lord. Gabriel is the flame of divine inspiration and the fire that burns out cruelty in the wicked. But Novalis stands apart from the warriors of Heaven, for she does not fight. Yet, somehow, she commands a strong loyalty usually found in those who have fought and suffered together. Why? To answer that, we must look into her organization. What draws young angels into the service of Flowers when there are far more proactive Words like Fire, Destiny, War, and The Sword to choose from? What type of angel is drawn into her service and what do they find once they have joined up with her? How do they get along with other, more militant angels? Maybe this will explain some of that. - ----------------------------------------- The Organization of Flowers As has often been noted with criticism by Michaelites and Laurencians, the organization of Novalis's Servitors is extremely weak. The Archangel of Flowers is not really the hierarchial type. Much has been made of the fact that Novalis refers to her Flowerchildren as her actual children, keeping them in a loose grip. Novalis's lack of hierarchy, while grating to some of the more martial angels, actually seems to bond the angels of Flowers. To better understand it, think of the organization of Flowers like a giant family. Each member of the family is entrusted with certain responsibilities. Some stay at home, tending the gardens and forests of the Glades. Some serve as diplomatic liasions to the other Archangels, smoothing matters over when the prerogatives of Flowers override or conflict with the prerogatives of the other Archangels. Others travel to Earth, easing relations between mortals and extending the bough of peace and trust to the demons in hopes that they will redeem. Like a family, the Flowerchildren do not feel the need to answer to a strict hierarchy, which enables them to carry out their assorted functions with an easy camaderie and friendliness that utilizes all aspects of the family's capabilities and members. But what of the Word-Bound amongst them? Like Word-Bound amongst the other Archangels, the Word-Bound of Flowers are granted the respect and honor of their lofty position. However, Word-Bound amongst Flowers tend to be a lot less serious and image-conscious than their peers amongst the other Archangelic organizations. It is much more common to see laughter and easy joking between Word-Bound and non-Word-Bound in the organization of Flowers than in, say, the organization of the Sword. - ------------------------------------- Flowery Recruitment Offers So given this relaxed atmosphere, what is it that draws an undecided Reliever or young angel into Novalis's service? Well, take a look at it from the point of a Reliever or a young angel created and given free rein to seek an Archangel. The possibilities of all of Heaven are open to them. Shall one serve the stern purpose of Judgement? The carefree nature of the Wind? Will one smite evil as a Servitor of Fire, or care for the young as a Servitor of Children? It can be so hard to choose. Then consider the nature of Flowers. For those who do not favor military service but who do want to help people and end problems, Flowers is ideal. It enables one to step in and directly interfere in the affairs of mortals, without having to answer to a rigid hierarchy or risk one's own hide in combat. For those whose idealism is not that of a soldier, this can prove highly appealing: helping people without having to fight. But what of Novalis's dissonance conditions? While it may be true that her conditions of not resorting to violence unless there is no other choice and not tolerating or committing unnecessary violence may be grating at times, many young angels can see the purpose behind them. It often takes more strength not to take up arms and fight in a trying situation, a philosophy that elder and more experienced angels of Flowers often explain to newcomers in Novalis's service. This philosophy often enables younger angels of Flowers to withstand the irritated hostility of other angels who serve Words like War and The Sword. At the same time, it provides a comforting sense of moral and emotional certainty that no matter what other angels may feel, those of Flowers are stronger than they think them to be because they have the courage to resist resorting to violence. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 11:33:03 -0500 From: "Jason F. McBrayer" Subject: Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) On Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 01:17:34AM -0500, damienw@juno.com wrote: > OTOH, wouldn't Cain & Abel be sort of a special case? Being > older than dirt and probably half-Etherial from their very special > position in one of the archetypical legends... Not any moreso than Adam and Eve, who were 15-forcers, and presumably 5 forces per realm, 10 points per characteristic. - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@carcosa.net | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:31:02 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> They Shall Not Be Forgotten! - --- Azrael/Demigouge wrote: > Does anyone else think that these are somewhat out of order? > Chances are that if it has been done and enjoyed before then it > doesnt violate the morals of the person, possibly this holds true > for the has done before, but perhaps not. The rationale behind that order is the guilt factor. One may do something that one feels to be wrong but still acknowledge that doing it felt good. It's also possible to have an experience that one doesn't particularly enjoy. The CD chart reflects the ability of Teraphim to get people to do things that they know to be wrong and, at the higher results, that they don't even _like_ doing. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Snore and you sleep alone." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:35:46 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> A Deeper Glimpse into Flowers Nicely done, Charles. It's good to see Novalis in particular -- and conscientious objectors in general -- get some respect. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Snore and you sleep alone." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 12:39:58 -0600 From: "Eeyore" Subject: Re: Abracadabra (was Re: IN> Selflessness vs. Selfishness) - -----Original Message----- From: damienw@juno.com To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 12:31 AM Subject: Re: Abracadabra (was Re: IN> Selflessness vs. Selfishness) > > >On Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:27:04 -0500 Earl Wajenberg writes: >> And all he'd have to do to counter the effect of too many >> extra socks would be to destroy something else, e.g. some >> nuclear waste, or back issues of old magazines. But I >> suppose destroying things is the one thing he can't do. >> (Hey, maybe he could destroy hack novels.) > > Destroying is just another form of creation.:) And here I was, assuming that Joseph Schumpeter was in service to *Trade.* J. Michael Neal ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:27:10 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Dystopias of Asmodeus Here's an idea I had for Hell... Asmodeus despite what Nybbas thinks is not completely devoid of desire for popular entertainment...indeed he is actually quite fond of certain choice bits of literature, television, and movies that have portrayed the not-so-distant future as something bleak and totalitarian. In one of the more disturbing acts Asmodeus has done in the past century, the Prince of the Game has begun gathering the damned from his principality together in isolated communities which has begun designing from these self-same warnings of the Past with his own added 'edge' to them. It satisfies Asmodeus's need to torment on some level that he may use the fiction of others who wished to WARN humanity about the comming dangers of Hellish trends to actually try and bring them about. It is Asmodeus's desire upon gaining insight to whichever "Dystopia" works best to begin to implement them directly into the world and bring about final great victory for the Game....after all he's done it before. Faren-heights: Bordering on the edge of Belial's domain, the city of Lost Lore (nicknamed by Kobalites after the immortal novel Farenheight 451 by Bradbury) is a place that more resembles the domain of the Media than anything else. The written word is outlawed in this place and thus everything is communicated over huge television minitors which routinely send out one of Nybbas's servitor's most subliminal and restrive programming. A group of inquisitors called the Fire-masters are responsible with rooting out those who still share information and then burning them in extremely public ceremonies, they of course are watched by several departments that in turn watch each other. These joint Game/Belial servitors are almost identical and Belial has yet to catch on that Asmodeus is attempting to turn his servitors into fanatics of the Game as much as pyro-maniacs. Asmodeus is experimenting with the idea of having Vapula slowly phase out all craftmanship for self replicating drones so that even if humanity tries to abandon the practice of universal conformity and mindless child care they will be unable to because they as a race will be stuck in the stone age....Asmodeus has been gradually phasing in the horror at "Some Assemby Required" for some time this has been so sucessful and how many people do YOU know how to fix your car if it broke down? Orwellia: Oh where would the Game be without 1984? Never has more a novel made Asmodeus more famous which causes him to take great pleasure in perverting Saint George's tome to recruit soldiers of the Game and these three cities outside the lands of Gehenna. It is a testament to George Orwell that very little has actually changed from his nightmarish dream save the Inquisitors are much much better and the spirits encouraging children to inform on their parents are much more pleasing (Asmodeus to compensate for the lack of child spirits and parental care have reduced normal spirits to babies with the Song of entropy and allowed them to be raised more 'perfectly' to the game). Asmodeus uses his own visage for Big Brother in a small conciet and it is rumored that Joseph Stalin himself is somewhere inside the city, paying for his sins by living as one of the Proletariat and most outspoken members. It is a tesatement to Asmodeus's treatments that the majority of people in Orwellia do not even REALIZE they are in Hell rather than simply not care...for all their knowledge this is Earth and it has always been Earth...they grew up here and they love Big Brother. Consumia: The most vapid and egotistical place in Hell of course is on the edge of Shal Mari. Based on a multitude of ideas including A Brave New World, Harrison Berginon, and THX-1138 Consumeria is a place where Asmodeus has taken his pick of his favorite ideas from them to create a place where everyone is completely happy with their life because everything good is not illegal and not immoral but simply invisible and therefore irrelevant. Taking A Brave new world's liscenteous views on Sex and Drugs, "happy pills" (infinately more effectve than soma) are available freely and everyone has been altered by Vapula in experiments that have been erased from their minds to be extremely beutiful to one standard. Books are not necessarly unavaiable but they're a bother to get and people are free to speak their minds but in doing so are "awarded" bizzare items that inhibit them and make them weaker and disrupt their thinking. Asmodeus has made allowances for rebels in his realm by the most disturbing means yet, if a person suceeds in thinking and throwing off all their shackles, Asmodeus gives them the priviledge of "elevating them to demonhood" or undeath. Because a strong sense of selfishness is necessary to get anyone to do this...no single person has ever escaped Consumia without becomming one of the opressors. Altruisia: Harkening back to the days when Asmodeus's power greatly stemmd from the Inquisition, Altruisa is a place which Asmodeus is very proud of...a place completely devoted to Godly virtues and yet still blasphemous to him and them all. Altriusia is lorded over by the Pontiff Maximus who is chosen as a Balseraph of the Game with particular enjoyment of lording over the masses (given most Balseraphs this says alot). The Universal Church of Theoretical Thought is the complete overlord and master of the realm as everyone is required to attend church three times a day and make five confessions each day (encouraging a person to sin or confess on others). Saints of the Church include Jesus, Muhammed, Hitler, Stalin, and famous serial killers with the general lesson that anyone who is "great" did something but no one exactly knows what they did really either but it was something attention getting. Punishment is completely without knowledge in this place as everyone is willing to ignore other people's actions because it's what the Church says (which is ultimately nothing). Opinions by the various Princes: Asmodeus: The Game is developing a new face, I merely have to pick which one.... Andrephalus: I enjoy Consumia as it looks like it's exactly the sort of place Nybbas and I want our "New Jerusalem" to look like, however I am RIGHETOUSLY disturbed by this whole Orwellia thing...sure sexuality was liberating but those guys are just STOPPING enjoying it. I'm not going to be no stinking word bound thank you...now I just need some of Lilith's help. Baali: War is PEACE! I love that book. Belial: Whatever...they're unpleasant and some burn stuff....but it's Asmodeus so I can't say much good about him. Kobal: Must...resist...temptation...wait why am I doing that? BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Lilith: I HATE THEM! I HATE THEM ALL! Nybbas: You know it's amazing that the Media survives in no matter what sort of place the Prince's come up with...yes I'm proud...camera...close up! Adventure Seeds: * The character's Prince finds something offensive in one of Asmodeus's dystopias and they charge them with starting an underground resistance inside of the place. The players must live like the humans do in Hell for a time as they are disguised as the oppressed...or hide....will the dystopia's break their will towards hell or inspire them ever more to carnage? * One of the "deviants" in Asmodeus's dystopia's goes renegade and with a unholy pistol he's managed to dispatch no less than two game servants on his way out of the Dystopia...extremely free thinking still he intends to make his way...well somewhere...he doesn't remember it but it's nice. The character's Prince for reason of their own charge them with finding him and bringing them to them. * The players are demons in the Dystopias for some time before Asmodeus arrives before them and informs them that they are charged with preparing their dystopia in a third world country whose government has collasped with great rewards to whichever demon or demon group acomplishes the most perfect reflection of the Dystopia resulting. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 15:57:11 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) At 1:17 AM -0500 11/22/00, damienw@juno.com wrote: >On Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:52:53 -0500 Elizabeth McCoy writes: >> See CPG errata -- humans _still_ max out at 10, not 12. >> http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/errata/corporeal.html >> >> (Why? Because they're still humans, not angels without a resonance.) > > OTOH, wouldn't Cain & Abel be sort of a special case? Being >older than dirt and probably half-Etherial from their very >special position in one of the archetypical legends... In In Nomine canon, they're either human, or they're not. If they're human, they max out at 15 Forces: five per realm, 10 per characteristic. If they're not human, they _are_ ethereal (or celestial) and max out as ethereals. Natch, that's canon, and you can fold, spindle, or mutilate it as you will for your own games. But in canon, there aren't "special cases." (I actually had a discussion about this with SJ a longish while back, regarding the CotG and whether they were "human," "angel," or a half-breed. No half-breeds. One's nature is a binary thing. (Well, maybe trinary, depending on the celestial-ethereal link or lack thereof.) You're either human, or you _aren't_.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:14:09 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> New Songs... - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Stiffening (Common) > > Rude jokes aside, these Songs do not originate with > Andrealphus. Of course not. That's covered by the ornamental Numinous Corpus "...Or Are You Just Glad To See Me." ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Snore and you sleep alone." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: 22 Nov 2000 23:28:25 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) On Wed, 22 Nov 2000 15:57:11 Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >In In Nomine canon, they're either human, or they're not. If they're >human, they max out at 15 Forces: five per realm, 10 per characteristic. >If they're not human, they _are_ ethereal (or celestial) and max out >as ethereals. > >Natch, that's canon, and you can fold, spindle, or mutilate it as you >will for your own games. But in canon, there aren't "special cases." LILITH . more seriously, does this mean that Lilith herself, not counting her Word-Forces, is no larger than 15 Forces? that is impressive compared to any living human, mind, or even undead, but it is amusing that every Archangel and Demon Prince is at the very least 3 Forces up on her (with the possible exception of our favorite dullard, Saminga...). >(I actually had a discussion about this with SJ a longish while back, >regarding the CotG and whether they were "human," "angel," or a >half-breed. No half-breeds. One's nature is a binary thing. (Well, >maybe trinary, depending on the celestial-ethereal link or lack >thereof.) You're either human, or you _aren't_.) thanks for noting that--it's one of those bits of canon i *will* be folding, spindling, and mutilating ;) ------------------------------ Date: 22 Nov 2000 23:41:46 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> New Songs... On Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:14:09 -0800 (PST) Michael Walton wrote: > >--- Maurice Lane wrote: >> Stiffening (Common) >> >> Rude jokes aside, these Songs do not originate with >> Andrealphus. > Of course not. That's covered by the ornamental Numinous Corpus >"...Or Are You Just Glad To See Me." LMAO as funny as that is, i didn't think there was a Numinous Corpus song that affected *other* people--all of 'em that i can think of affect the singer, and only indirectly (horns, tail, acid, fangs, claws, etc) affect other people. ...OAYJGTSM would be sung *on a target,* and used for comedic or seductive purpose. -=|horsefly|=- God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 16:09:21 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Angel of Non-Sequiturs - --- darkness@i-manila.com.ph wrote: > Jiminy > Ofanite Servitor of the Wind > Angel of Non-Sequiturs This would be an interesting way to get a bunch of PC's into serious trouble. Lilith, you say... ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Snore and you sleep alone." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 19:32:09 -0500 (EST) From: Damien Wellman Subject: Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) - ------Original Message------ From: Elizabeth McCoy To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sent: November 22, 2000 8:57:11 PM GMT Subject: Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) In In Nomine canon, they're either human, or they're not. If they're human, they max out at 15 Forces: five per realm, 10 per characteristic. If they're not human, they _are_ ethereal (or celestial) and max out as ethereals. - ------ Very interesting, but doesn't Lilith, who is a human Demon Princess (so to speak) blow that right out of the water? Obviously, Lilith has a bit of *oomph* from having a Word, but C&A would seem to be a similar case under certain interpretations. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 19:33:29 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) At 11:28 PM +0000 11/22/00, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >On Wed, 22 Nov 2000 15:57:11 Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>In In Nomine canon, they're either human, or they're not. If they're >>human, they max out at 15 Forces: five per realm, 10 per characteristic. >>If they're not human, they _are_ ethereal (or celestial) and max out >>as ethereals. >> >>Natch, that's canon, and you can fold, spindle, or mutilate it as you >>will for your own games. But in canon, there aren't "special cases." > LILITH . more seriously, does this mean that >Lilith herself, not counting her Word-Forces, is no larger than 15 >Forces? Remember, the "18 Forces plus Word Forces plus Superior State Change" isn't Canon. *If* a Superior is just a trumped up Word-Bound with no additional Forces, then perhaps Lilith is a 15 Force+, and her position remains inviolate because she's careful and has protectors and Lucifer's blessing. Unless whatever Lucifer did to give her a Word allowed her to have those 3 Word Forces as well. As for myself, personally, I take the Superior State Change as being far more extensive. Lilith may still be human, but she's a human pushed through the veil to a World we don't understand, and has the same ability to affect that world as the Celestials who've gone through that veil. She is human, but Superior. Even as an Angel is limited to 18 Forces and 12 stats, but a Superior far exceeds mere measurability while remaining an Angel (and the same for Demons), so Lilith remains human but exceeds the 15/10 limit. It's an interesting question. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 16:50:30 -0800 From: "Kish" Subject: IN> Impudites of Lust The corebook states that Impudites of Lust add their Corporeal Forces to any attempt to use their resonance on someone they've had sex with. The Infernal Player's Guide, on page 121, states that Impudites of Lust add their Corporeal Forces to any attempt to use their resonance on someone they touch. Neither book's errata clarifies this, so I wondered, which is intended? (I expect it's the corebook's version, but either way, it might be worth putting in the errata.) - -- Kish ICQ#: 28085879 AIM: Kish K M Kish_K@mindspring.replacewithcom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 19:44:51 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) At 7:32 PM -0500 11/22/00, Damien Wellman wrote: >From: Elizabeth McCoy > >In In Nomine canon, they're either human, or they're not. If they're human, >they max out at 15 Forces: five per realm, 10 per characteristic. >If they're not human, they _are_ ethereal (or celestial) and max out as >ethereals. >------ > >Very interesting, but doesn't Lilith, who is a human Demon Princess (so to >speak) blow that right out of the water? Obviously, Lilith has a bit of >*oomph* from having a Word, but C&A would seem to be a similar case under >certain interpretations. Lilith doesn't just have a Word, she has a Princess's Coronet. Cain and Abel aren't Superiors, and don't fall under the same heading. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 20:13:27 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Archangel of Death I like the Lady Malakim a great deal truly my friend though I do have some things to mention. >Kronos: "He was creepy. I don't think I'd want him for a Servitor. He had >issues." To my knowledge I never read that Kronos existed in Heaven/Hell before the 900. I doubt somewhat she'd know of him, then again if anyone WOULD it would be her. >Michael: "The Firstborn of the angels is a Seraph worthy of any angel's >respect. I hope he earns a Word someday. I think he would carry whatever >Word he earns well." Still some debate over whether Michael was War before the War my companion. Otherwise I love Sorantine, very cute and amusing gal. - -Charlemagne Donate to the Sudanese refugee "Bridge of Hope fund" 1800-424-8644 The Hunger Site: http://www.thehungersite.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 20:15:02 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: IN> Real-life variant In Nomine scenario > http://www.miaminewtimes.com/issues/1997-06-05/feature.html Anybody who doesn't get a multitude of story ideas from this just isn't doing their job... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 19:09:22 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Turkey for you, turkey for me... >...and enjoy them, everyone, because I've just scraped >the bottom of my creative barrel for this week. I'm >tired, weary, zonked, wiped out, burned out, you name >it, I'm feeling it. I have every intention of >spending every second from Thursday afternoon to >Sunday evening in bed. Sorry. >Moe You know, I meant that, I really did. Apparently (glaring up at presumed muse location), SOMEBODY wasn't listening... Anyway, _this_ time I'm going to bed after this and sleeping. I _mean_ it. :) Moe Meleagris Ofanite Friend of Beasts Angel of Turkeys Corporeal Forces: 4 Strength: 10 Agility: 6 Ethereal Forces: 4 Intelligence: 6 Precision: 10 Celestial Forces: 5 Will: 10 Perception: 10 Suggested Word Forces: 6 Vessel: female turkey/3, cooked turkey/4 Skills: Dodge/3, Fighting/4, Small Weapon/4 (cleaver), Tactics/2 Songs: Beasts (All/3), Darkness (All/3), Entropy (Ethereal/3, Celestial/3), Light (Celestial/6), Might (Corporeal/3), Motion (Celestial/3), Shields (Corporeal/3) Attunements: Ofanite of Animals, Call of the Wild, Friend of Beasts, Angel of Turkeys Angel of Turkeys: Meleagris can spend Essence without immediately causing disturbance, provided that she is in turkey form. The disturbance will build up until she takes celestial form, at which point it all goes off at once. Special Rite: Set a doomed turkey free from captivity. Word-bound of Animals aren't bothered when their charges are consumed: it's all part of the biosphere. They do get incensed when humans don't properly appreciate what they're consuming. This makes the American holiday of Thanksgiving very odd for Meleagris: turkeys are eaten, in frightening amounts, but they aren't really wasted. Even the leftovers are eventually consumed. Of course, the conditions in which the birds are raised are often horrifying, but the Angel of Turkeys has the entire year to work on correcting that problem. She saves Thanksgiving for fun things. You see, even Hellsworn have mothers. Mothers that expect them at the table at 2 PM sharp, hands clean and ready to carve the bird. Unfortunately, sometimes the bird just doesn't want to be carved. American Soldiers of Hell _never_ get to eat big Thanksgiving dinners anymore (this has actually led to more than one renouncing a life of evil). There's just been too many cases where the turkey has suddenly come to 'life', grabbed a carving knife, and started to reap a bloody harvest. Meleagris hasn't minded too much, though: there's always one or two Hellsworn out there convinced that she won't notice just one little helping of turkey, just one nibble of pie, just one, single, solitary slice of cranberry sauce. Truthfully, she doesn't... but she limits herself to one exhibition per year. Noticing one idiot is all she needs to do. It's even better if the idiot is eating with his or her equally nasty family (dysfunctional or sadomasochistic family structures are a distressingly common condition among Hellsworn). That's when Meleagris gets to play. With the right application of the Songs of Entropy and Darkness, she can produce a tableau that will turn the unwilling participants off Thanksgiving forever. Meleagris is very careful to only do this to those who actually deserve to be scared half to death (if she's feeling merciful) by nightmare visions of a headless entrée shooting off laser beams from its neck. Otherwise, she feels no need to restrain herself in dealing with these petty, unappreciative, virulently evil gluttons. There _are_ people starving in Africa, after all. ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 19:18:19 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Historical Magic Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:14:01 -0500 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: Re: IN> Historical Magic >You might want to also throw in another pseudo->discord: >Famous Name: >The demon's true name is written down in occult >texts, and will thus be summoned more frequently than >usual. At level 1, its name is written in only the >most obscure and esoteric texts, while at level 6, >its true name is found even in cheap paperback >editions of occult works. The quality of summoner >varies with level, too. At level 1 the demon is >occasionally called on by a knowledgeable and cynical >sorcerer who won't won't waste either party's time >(and might even be a valuable contact in his own >right). At level 6, the demon gets frequently paged >by pimply-faced Crowley-quoting outcast teenagers who >want the demon to, like, perform rilly kewl tantric >sex rituals on them. This could quite possibly be one of the nastiest things to spring on a demonic PC that I've seen in a long time*, especially since the only two ways I can see to get _rid_ of this is to either Redeem or get blasted back to Remnantship and then get rebuilt. Don't _ever_ piss off Hatiphas, that's all I can say. Moe *I mean that as a sincere compliment, BTW. :) ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 19:57:34 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Servitor Attunements, Superiors, and Rambling Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:58:19 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Servitor Attunements, Superiors, and Rambling >- ----Why don't Superiors share their Servitor >Attunements with each other? Or do they? Well, if >they did, things might look very strange -- should >Michael really have some of David's attunements? >Janus'? Novalis? (The idea of Michael dropping a >Crown of Joy on someone's head and then cleaving them >with his axe is just Wrong.) But Effective. Mike likes Effective. Besides the Angel of Cognitive Dissonance works for War... well, she _will_, just as soon as I get some sleep.* :) Moe *Although she's been called a 'vertical yo-yo' for her tendency to oscillate between War's and the Wind's service. They both want to keep her: it's just that sometimes they really _do_ make you an offer that you can't refuse... ;) ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1935 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.