From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Nov 27 13:46:30 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03725 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2000 13:46:30 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id NAA30641 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 27 Nov 2000 13:46:43 -0600 Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 13:46:43 -0600 Message-Id: <200011271946.NAA30641@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1942 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, November 27 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1942 In this digest: Re: IN> You can make anything into a RPG aid, if you look at it right. Re: IN> Demon of Armaggedon Re: IN> Demon of Armaggedon Re: IN> You can make anything into a RPG aid, if you look at it right. Re: IN> Urban Legends Part IV Re: IN> Re: DR WHO Re: IN> You can make anything into a RPG aid, if you look at it right. Re: IN> You can make anything into a RPG aid, if you look at it right. Re: IN> You can make anything into a RPG aid, if you look at it right. Re: IN> Vapula Seed Re: IN> In Nomine Contest> Demons you tend to underestimate Re: IN> Demon of Armaggedon Re: IN> Re: DR WHO Re: IN> New Songs... Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) IN> IN: Vaptoys Re: IN> In Nomine Contest> Demons you tend to underestimate Re: IN> "No! You fool! That's the Time Eraser Button!" Re: IN> Urban Legends Parts I & II IN> The War of the Worlds Re: IN> Re: DR WHO Re: IN> IN: Vaptoys Re: IN> You can make anything into a RPG aid, if you look at it right. Re: IN> IN: Vaptoys Re: IN> You can make anything into a RPG aid, if you look at it right. Re: IN>: DR WHO Re: IN>: DR WHO IN> [NPC] Demon of Public Choice Theory Re: IN>: DR WHO ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:41:20 +1100 From: "Azrael/Demigouge" Subject: Re: IN> You can make anything into a RPG aid, if you look at it right. Subject: IN> You can make anything into a RPG aid, if you look at it right. > I was Zen surfing, and I came across this: > > http://www.beliefnet.com/features/quiz/index.html > On a kind of related topic, a while ago someone posted a site that you used to anaylse personality type, there were four catagories and sixteen personality types. Does anyone remember the website, or need I go searching the archives? Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 01:22:02 -0500 From: Jason Schneiderman Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Armaggedon >Fifth Trumpet -- "In Unity, War Is Embraced" So... who's got the word of Unity? And how can we get her to Embrace Michael? Jason, who thinks she serves David. Or served Uriel. * * * * * Jason Schneiderman jadasc@ma.ultranet.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 00:25:13 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Armaggedon - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Schneiderman" To: Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 12:22 AM Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Armaggedon > >Fifth Trumpet -- "In Unity, War Is Embraced" > > So... who's got the word of Unity? And how can we get her to Embrace Michael? You can't Embrace Michael. Celestials are immune to being turned into vampires. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 17:23:33 +1100 From: "Azrael/Demigouge" Subject: Re: IN> You can make anything into a RPG aid, if you look at it right. Subject: Re: IN> You can make anything into a RPG aid, if you look at it right. > I was Zen surfing, and I came across this: > > http://www.beliefnet.com/features/quiz/index.html > *grump* I scored 17 in the spirituality type, the lowest score listed is 25...I got gypped! I hold you respnsible Moe... Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 22:34:03 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Urban Legends Part IV Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 15:46:44 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: IN> Urban Legends Part IV (friendly exasperation) Mike, why the H**L don't you have a webpage? This stuff oughta be getting a wider audience (not to mention a slightly more print-friendly format). Don't tell me you don't have content: between this stuff, and the minor Choirs/Bands, you've got enough for a decent start. Don't tell me you don't know how to build one. Neither do I, but _I_ manage. Don't tell me you don't have the time. Again, neither do I, but _I_ manage. Get a webpage. Show off your stuff. Glow in the egoboo of random people email you and going 'wow'*. (/friendly exasperation) :) Moe *This goes for the rest of you. I see some primo stuff that _only_ shows up here. Criminal, criminal, criminal. If you need a rationalization, consider that lots of webpages = increased presence on the Web, which couldn't hurt IN sales. Who needs sleep, anyway? :) ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 06:52:46 -0000 From: "I. Inayat" Subject: Re: IN> Re: DR WHO - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Prodigal" To: Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 5:04 AM Subject: Re: IN> Re: DR WHO > From: "Charles Glasgow" > > > > From: "Prodigal" > > > > > From: "I. Inayat" > > > > > > > > Question: Would the Daleks try to take over Hell? > > > > > > No, the question is "How far would they get, and who would they ally > > > with?" > > > > Just try and keep the Vapmeister *away* from them! > > No wonder Vapula hates humanity so much - they keep tipping over that funky > motorised wheelchair of his. > Davros: Soldier of Technology, or secret vessel of Vapula? I think we should be told... Imran (Anyone who uses dialogue like 'Such power would set me up above the gods! And through the Daleks, I shall have that power!' _has_ to be linked to Technology...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 01:48:38 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> You can make anything into a RPG aid, if you look at it right. Azrael/Demigouge wrote: > On a kind of related topic, a while ago someone posted a site that you used> to anaylse personality type, there were four catagories and sixteen> personality types. > > Does anyone remember the website, or need I go searching the archives? Sounds like the Meyers-Briggs test. Do a search for that on Yahoo or Google and I'm sure you'll get numerous hits. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:00:57 +1100 From: "Azrael/Demigouge" Subject: Re: IN> You can make anything into a RPG aid, if you look at it right. Thanks Mr Edelstein, that's the ticket! Azrael You laugh at me because I'm different...I laugh at you because you're all the same. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 09:51:00 +0000 From: Pak Chan Subject: Re: IN> You can make anything into a RPG aid, if you look at it right. At 01:48 27/11/2000 -0600, you wrote: >Azrael/Demigouge wrote: > > On a kind of related topic, a while ago someone posted a site that you > used> to anaylse personality type, there were four catagories and > sixteen> personality types. > > > > Does anyone remember the website, or need I go searching the archives? > > >Sounds like the Meyers-Briggs test. Do a search for that on Yahoo or >Google and I'm sure you'll get numerous hits. > >-David Another one would be the Keirsey Character/Temperament Sorters at http://www.advisorteam.net/AT/User/kcs.asp and http://www.keirsey.com/cgi-bin/keirsey/newkts.cgi Not sure what the difference is between the two; they ask different questions, but come to a similar conclusion. Pak ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 04:55:53 -0600 From: "Cthulhu" Subject: Re: IN> Vapula Seed I was just thinking about this one over the weekend, when I had an awful thought... What if Kobal slips him a copy of "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes" ? Cthulhu _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 06:09:03 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Contest> Demons you tend to underestimate Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 19:34:04 -0500 From: "Jason F. McBrayer" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Contest> Demons you tend to underestimate >There's been some discussion on the list of how the >simple additive mechanic for upgrading Geases doesn't >work very well. I would use a house rule that for >each higher level geas, you need two of the lower >level. So to build a Geas/6 from Geas/1s, you'd need >2^(6-1) = 32 Geas/1s. Still possible to get from a >regular customer in not much more than a month, but >not _quite_ as bad. That actually sounds pretty reasonable, considering that you actually have to RUN the fast food joint. That's not the most fun job in the universe. :) Hmmm. No books with me: acquring a Geas doesn't cause disturbance, right? Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 08:37:18 -0600 From: "Bradley Paranial" Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Armaggedon >From: "Charles Glasgow" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: >Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Armaggedon >Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 00:25:13 -0600 > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jason Schneiderman" >To: >Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 12:22 AM >Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Armaggedon > > > > >Fifth Trumpet -- "In Unity, War Is Embraced" > > > > So... who's got the word of Unity? And how can we get her to Embrace >Michael? > >You can't Embrace Michael. Celestials are immune to being turned into >vampires. > *Groan* Brad _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 06:42:40 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Re: DR WHO Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 23:04:49 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Re: DR WHO >>>>Question: Would the Daleks try to take over Hell? >> >>>No, the question is "How far would they get, and >>>who would they ally with?" >> >>Just try and keep the Vapmeister *away* from them! >No wonder Vapula hates humanity so much - they keep >tipping over that funky motorised wheelchair of his. Hmmmmm. Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 09:47:53 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> New Songs... Michael Walton wrote: > Of course not. That's covered by the ornamental Numinous Corpus > "...Or Are You Just Glad To See Me." Half of a line originated by Mae West, and also re-used in the Classical section of the Boston Art Museum, where there is an ancient Greek vase bearing the images of a nymph and "two satyrs who are obviously glad to see her," to quote from the label. The other great Mae West quote for use in IN is part of a two-liner, in which her maid helps her undress and remarks, "Goodness! What beautiful diamonds." "Goodness had nothing to do with it, dearie." Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 09:57:31 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > But before she was a Princess, Lilith was a 15-Force human. > > After she became a Princess, she entered into the "doubt and > uncertainty" land. So that sure sounds like Galahad, the Ethereal Superior, can be an add-on to canon, rather than a violation of it. Ditto Vlad Dracula the Undead Superior. Ditto Mary or Gautama or Peter or Paul or the Hidden Imam or Lao Tsu, the Saintly Superiors. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 09:21:36 -0600 From: "Cthulhu" Subject: IN> IN: Vaptoys This is my first major Artifact creation, and is done without the benefit of the *Liber Reliquarium * or *Superiors 4* (for Vapula), so there might be some glaring errors... please forgive. - -- Okay, these could potentially unbalance a campaign, so take care with them... Probably better not to let Players buy them, and keep them for rewards. Hotlines On one of those days in Tartarus, Vapula was flipping through the sheaves of notes which litter his lab. The pages were covered in scores, terrible, twisted scores drawn in ink and blood and other things; scores drawn in a tiny, crabby style; scores which would tear out the eardrums on anyone forced to listen to them. The Princes eyes skimmed down the pages, then raised a second in thought. And in doing so, they cought sight of a loose diagram scrawled across a notepad, flickered back to the sheet clutched in the demons claw, and back to the diagram again. A tiny, telltale spark crawled across the back of his tortured eyeballs, and Sparky, catching sight of this, groaned softly... "brr..brr...brr..brr... Hello, you have reached Hell. No-one can take your call at the moment, but please hold while we try to connect you... " The labs of Technology have a lot to answer for, not least the creation of the Mobile Phone. However, when Vapula got hold of one of these, and ... adapted ... it, things got a lot worse. The Hotlines come in pairs; one a Corporeal Artifact, one Celestial. They appear as generic cell phones, of no distinct design or brand, though no two sets of Hotlines are exactly alike either. Both of these are woven through with a variation of the Song of Projection which allows them to be used to call one another across Planes. Vapula created only a few of these before going off to work on something else, and so they are understandably rare and valuable. A few Servitors of Technology have attempted to recreate them using Vapula's (inconcise) notes, but only one out of a hundred made actually work. The Corporeal Hotline is usually given to a specific favoured Servitor of Technology* before their dispatchment to Earth, while the Celestial counterpart remains lying somewhere in Vapula's labs**. Once in the Corporeal realm, the demon can use the phone as a regular mobile anywhere on earth, with unlimited free calls. But by spending a point of Essence to fuel the Song and calling a certain, very secret, number, the phone will connect to it's other half, and the ringing will start in Hell. Then the demon will be able to report or receive instructions directly from her superiors, and possibly even call for backup. Or so it goes. But this is a tool of Technology... The problem is not in the hardware, the phones work 100% of the time, without a hitch. The problem, as any tech will tell you, lies in the lowest common element: Personal. The Celestial Hotlines are not kept in the same place as the Corporeal versions are when not in use. The general lack of order in Tartarus, combined with the phones special power (see ** below) has resulted in them being scattered about the labs pretty much at random; lost under piles of paper, or dropped behind furnaces. The Corporeal versions are all kept on a shelf in a certain room, deep inside the Principality, and when one is assigned to a Servitor, they get handed the nearest one. Where the other end of it is can be anybodies guess. Because of this, when a Hotline is used from Earth, the GM needs to roll the check die to find out who takes the call. Use the following table for guidance, but feel free to change it to meet your needs or views. CD Result 1 The Phone is totally lost for the moment, and rings out. Try again later. 2 Useless/Petulant Underling - the phone is answered by a dim-witted Gremlin, or possibly by a demon with a grudge against the character. They may or may not be capable/willing to be of much use. 3 A grunt researcher picks up the phone, and does whatever it can. This can include general information, or possibly getting someone who knows what they're doing, if buttered up right. 4 A direct Superior of the player, who knows what your current assignment is, and can provide relevant information (including locations of nearby Servitors of Technology) without too much hassle. 5 One of the high-up lab assistants gets the phone. This demon knows everything the CD 4 demon would, and can also offer rather more substantial aid if the situation merits it. 6 Dr. V himself happens to be beside the phone when it goes off, and decides to check how his invention is working. The GM should be careful about how much the player can get out of this call. If a character is using this every minute of the day as a personal tether, they'll get chewed out next time they reach anyone of any importance for wasting time. Similarly this cannot be used as an easy solution to any problem ("We've got a problem involving the water mains. Put on the Demon of Plumbing"), for similar reasons. If the call reaches Vapula you may want to roll the CD again to determine his mood, as with an Invocation. But that's the _only_ way that this is like an Invocation - Vapula will be far less inclined to present the kind of aid he would if he were there in flesh. Demons who overuse _this_ one will simply draw Vapula's attention back to his invention, and of possible tests to preform on it. Tests running along the lines of "I wonder if I can get the other end of this to autodial Heaven with it's GPS code..." Cost: I tentatively price the Hotline at 18 CP, broken down thusly: Relic/6 (Song of Projection - sort of) 18 Can only be Servitors of Technology +3 Easily hidden +3 Does not store Essence -3 Requires Essence to Power -3 As I say, this is without the LR, so if you think I have it priced to high/low, let me know. * And _only_ Servitors of Technology can use a Hotline, even if another being steals one and learns the right number to call. ** A Celestial Hotline _cannot_ be removed from the centre of Tartarus. Any attempt to do so results in the phone exploding in a flash of scorching Essence, and then reforming somewhere in the Labs. Cthulhu _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 10:14:23 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Contest> Demons you tend to underestimate At 6:09 AM -0800 11/27/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >So to build a Geas/6 from Geas/1s, you'd need > >2^(6-1) = 32 Geas/1s. Still possible to get from a >>regular customer in not much more than a month, but >>not _quite_ as bad. > >That actually sounds pretty reasonable, considering >that you actually have to RUN the fast food joint. >That's not the most fun job in the universe. :) Bill seems like an almost Djinn-like Lilim anyhow (which is fine. I love characters who break type). If his temperment isn't against tedium, which it isn't, then a tedious service industry job is ideal for him. Weirdly, I could see an Angel performing such a job willingly for centuries if needed. I don't particularly see boredom as a problem for most of the Host. For Demons, it depends on the Demon. But, if they're not easily bored, immortality means being able to spend lots and lots and lots of time just doing what they do. And as they work in that fast food joint, and work their way up the ladder, you *know* they're entrenching more and more into their Role. >Hmmm. No books with me: acquring a Geas doesn't cause >disturbance, right? Right. Non-destructive resonance use. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 10:32:41 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> "No! You fool! That's the Time Eraser Button!" Ryan Elias wrote: > Possibly Kronos is able to grant new words, but not stop their > deterioration. Wordbound in Hell need to make regular trips to the > Archive to have their Words rejuiced. Kronos, at this point, has > more power over Hell than Lucifer did. At what price? There's got to be a price, because if that configuration would have given Lucifer more power for free, he'd have taken it. Because I don't believe the inventor of selfishness would ever for a moment stop studying how to increase his power. The price might well be that granting Words is hard work. Kronos can keep renewing Words only at the cost of exhausting himself of Essence or some other resource. Which means he may have to let a Word-bound die from time to time, to keep himself breathing, and Hell is still slowly deteriorating. At the very least, there would be occasional cases of, "You haven't been much damned use lately. I'm too tired to re-Word you. You can die and I'll re-issue your Word to some more promising demon, when I'm rested." Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 11:01:40 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Urban Legends Parts I & II Michael Walton wrote: > If memory serves, Pratchett cast the Tooth Fairy as someone who > knows how to delegate A franchise, as I recall, was how the situation was described. Pratchett's Tooth Fairy was a very, very old bogeyman, who became quite fond of children and worried about the way they shed teeth, since this gave an obvious and dangerous hold over them to whoever picked up the teeth and used them for voodoo-like sympathetic magic. So it decided to collect all the teeth. But it needed help. So it hired large numbers of young women, who, while they're on the job, have the ability to go about unnoticed on their rounds, despite carrying extension ladders, bags of coins, and (for the occasional stubborn case) pliers. They receive regular written instructions, like "Veruca Cake, age 7, 613 Swallop Street, Ankh-Morpork, second floor bedroom, upper left incisor." There is a whole infrastructure of runners shipping coins out and teeth in, and the Residence is a house that looks like it was drawn by a five-year-old, containing almost-aleph-null collector's cabinets full of carefull mounted and labeled teeth. Any number of these elements might be usefully borrowed for the IN Tooth Fairy. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 08:07:23 -0800 From: tcp@zoomnet.net Subject: IN> The War of the Worlds Thanks. I really love your work by the way. Samingas was more interesting but Christopher's wasn't especially shabby either. In fact let me do one of my own. Davidville ...A divine being of the masses for the masses - -THX-1138 The world was alot different once David was in charge of the War and it was like what everyone expected; brutal and hard but few suspected it would also be short. Once all the demons were crushed and broken, David turned his attention from the few remaining weak but ultimately harmless demons to the sum of humanity where his servitors charged forth to slaughter the wicked and foster humanity to a stronger and more potent planet. Currently the Earth is radically different than what it is today with the vast majority of humans living underground in cities composed entirely of stone. The cities above ground are also stone with the majority of power being provided by geothermal energy which is both clean, efficent, and plentiful. Humanity is in something of a caste system now with very few individuals outside of the system meeting with other members but unity prevails as they recognize each other as part of the different layer in the glorious collective sum of humanity. The government is somewhat communist and femmine traits have been all but eliminated from humanity even in the women with women openly as strong, tough, and brutal as the men. Art is surprisingly still plentiful but for the most part it has taken a back turn towards hard work ethic and is usually sculpture serving as a reminder of the glorious triumph of patience and power over chaos and weakness. Baal's world War is peace - -1984 It started when Baal killed Michael. Humanity was calling out for a champion and not to save them but to destroy their enemies....Baal took up that mantle and slew his foe on the fields of Armageddon. Uriel who had returned from the Higher Heavens was next to die then was David as Baal became an engine of death against Heaven that was unstoppable...finally Laurence was on the ground and refused to yield to Baal despite Malakim had started to fall and it was clear Heaven had lost. He Baal spared before going before Lucifer's gloating form. "You fool, with the victory of Hell War and the Game and many other words are worthless. I now may take this world as soley my own." Lucifer said (paraphrased) before he realized Baal had allowed Heaven to retreat and the War wasn't over...would never be over. Baal lifted his kattana and at the momment of dawning revelation on Lucifer's eyes severed his head before purging the ranks of hell as equally as he had Heaven. War now covers every walk of life on Earth from street gangs in anarcho-collectives to technocracys with armies of cyborgs dreaming of union. The world is deeply divided with no particular idealogy in any hope of gaining ascendancy on Earth but Baal knows deeply in his heart that it doesn't matter what every king, supreme commander, potentate, president, prime minister, or boss fighst for...it's merely that they fight. Hell has become one large Gehenna with soldiers permenantly entreched in an endless war with the Lower Hells as Malphas rules with Kronos as his chief advisor in the Dark Regions...having hope of someday fostering a revolt that will destroy Baal and in Heaven the same lines have been drawn as Laurence has created a purely war faction Hell to annhilate Baal and free the Earth. Baal himself merely looks on in peace as he allows mortals to freely choose Heaven or Hell but making sure that they destroy each other to get either and knowing that this was God's plan all along...he is finally content. - -Charlemagne - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 11:13:18 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Re: DR WHO IN / "Dr. Who?" is actually a pretty good crossover. There's a populous universe out there, conveniently full of humanoids (with non-humanoids for spice) and pretty clearcut Good and Evil. The Timelords should probably be a whole race of Soldiers, which was one of the possible make-overs that I suggested for Arisians and Eddoreans in an IN/Lensman crossover. Or maybe Timelords should be a legitimate and (usually) benign version of Children of Grigori, only they trace their ancestry back to Yves. The Superiors are already foreshadowed in the form of those metaphysical critters (the Black and White Guardians, I think they were called) from the Key to Time story arc of the fourth Doctor (Tom Baker), which introduced Romana. Jean and Vapula become REAL prominent, of course, as do Yves and Kronos because of the time angle. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 10:18:46 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> IN: Vaptoys From: "Cthulhu" > > Hotlines Hee. Hee hee. Hee hee hee hee... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I need to run a game with a Technology servitor RIGHT NOW! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 11:27:16 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> You can make anything into a RPG aid, if you look at it right. Pak Chan wrote: > >Sounds like the Meyers-Briggs test. > Another one would be the Keirsey Character/Temperament Sorters at [...] > Not sure what the difference is between the two; they ask different > questions, but come to a similar conclusion. The Temperament Sorter is just Keirsey's own test for placing someone in the Meyers-Briggs personality classification. All the people concerned are Jungian psychoanalysts. I have occasionally thought it would be mildly amusing to list the M-B types for IN Superiors, but the types are probably too little-known for it to entertain the list as a whole. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 10:59:13 -0600 From: "Bradley Paranial" Subject: Re: IN> IN: Vaptoys Lol! *Bu Bo BEEP* The number you are trying to reach is not available at this time, due to the fact that it may very well have been eaten by a gremlin, Please Try again, If you urgently need assistance and would like to talk to someone press "1" now. If you are being pursued by Malakim, and need help NOW press the "*" key and The Archangel of Technology will be with you shortly. Hopefully Brad _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 13:05:21 -0500 From: "Jason F. McBrayer" Subject: Re: IN> You can make anything into a RPG aid, if you look at it right. On Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 11:27:16AM -0500, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > I have occasionally thought it would be mildly amusing to > list the M-B types for IN Superiors, but the types are probably > too little-known for it to entertain the list as a whole. I'd say go for it -- I think they're probably well-enough known (and anyone who doesn't understand them can figure them out with 5 minutes and a search engine). So... Jean, INTJ, of course. Vapula is an ENTP. - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@carcosa.net | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:51:09 -0000 From: "I. Inayat" Subject: Re: IN>: DR WHO - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl Wajenberg" To: Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 4:13 PM Subject: Re: IN> Re: DR WHO > IN / "Dr. Who?" is actually a pretty good crossover. There's > a populous universe out there, conveniently full of humanoids > (with non-humanoids for spice) and pretty clearcut Good and Evil. > _Most_ of the time. Humanity _is_ still important here, but it's not necessarily the be-all and end-all. (eg - there were sentient species on Earth before humanity evolved in the Who universe. Which raises the question of why, in IN terms, the Fall would happen when the apes turn up...) > The Timelords should probably be a whole race of Soldiers, which > was one of the possible make-overs that I suggested for Arisians > and Eddoreans in an IN/Lensman crossover. Or maybe Timelords should > be a legitimate and (usually) benign version of Children of Grigori, > only they trace their ancestry back to Yves. Mm. May need to factor in a few alterations; perhaps, like the Children of the Grigori, they have a Symphonic Connection, but _theirs_ is to time. And regeneration'd also have to be 'explained' somehow... ...perhaps some of the Grigori escaped to Gallifrey. Hmm... > The Superiors are already foreshadowed in the form of those > metaphysical critters (the Black and White Guardians, I think > they were called) from the Key to Time story arc of the fourth > Doctor (Tom Baker), which introduced Romana. Yep. Might be better off as Eternals, though (from the Fifth Doctor's (Peter Davison) era). Immortal beings who exist outside Time and Space, and seem to play games with mortals... does that sound like Superior behaviour (as seen by a mortal) or _what_? > Jean and Vapula become REAL prominent, of course, as do Yves > and Kronos because of the time angle. Oh, definitely. Thinking here... Celestial intervention on Earth would be low-to-medium - low enough that humanity isn't aware of them, for whatever reason. (Aliens seem to invade on a daily basis, but do people at large know? Nooo....) Perhaps it's because the Superiors have to divide their attention across the universe. Perhaps it's because Earth is a 'nexus point'... and when you ask your Superior what a nexus point actually _is_, you get told 'It's ineffable.' As you can guess, CDaU would be used a _lot_ in a crossover - the Doctor himself's never espoused a religious position, human or alien... ..which would bring in the alien problem. Create different Choirs/Bands/Superiors/etc for other worlds, or spread the existing ones across space and time? Difficult decision. In the Who universe, time travel is possible... which brings up the question of history changing. The problem is that, as the TV series developed, different production teams had different ideas of whether (or even _when_) time could be altered. Simplest answer? Let time work however you want to. Some events are inevitable. Some events can be changed... with effort, or by someone familiar with time. Some events can be changed simply by turning up. And it _might_ be possible that a single event could become all three when different people visit it... after all, the only beings who may actually understand time are Yves, Kronos, Lucifer, and God. And _those_ four are ineffable. (For a _really_ fun campaign, have the Doctor be ineffable too. His origins _are_ supposed to be a mystery, after all... and the series contradicted itself on precisely what those origins might be.) Imran PS: Hmm. Anyone out there want to find out more about the series? There are a few websites I could point to for info, but it'd be OT for the list, and the Wrath of Beth (tm) is great. Which means email. (For a TV series that finished 11 years ago, there's still a _lot_ of fan activity out there... and if you thought IN canon debates were bad, wait till you see the Who ones...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 14:18:36 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN>: DR WHO I. Inayat wrote: > ..which would bring in the alien problem. Create different > Choirs/Bands/Superiors/etc for other worlds, or spread the > existing ones across space and time? Difficult decision. And one that has to be faced with IN/Lensman, too, or any other IN/sf crossover. My own preference is to let the bands & choirs be the same all over, but the "humanoid" ones turn out to be available in a wider range of shapes than previously thought. E.g. a Mercurian's celestial form looks like the sapient species of the planet where the Mercurian was created (plus wings or some other options) OR like its last vessel, whichever it prefers. As for Superiors, I think the really old and cosmic ones, like Gabriel, Michael, Lucifer, and Yves, should be truly cosmic in an sf game, while younger and more social ones could be local, e.g. Furfur, Laurence, Christopher. This makes a fairly major split in the Superior ranks between Cosmic League and Planetary League, of course. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 14:37:48 -0500 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: IN> [NPC] Demon of Public Choice Theory This one is a little late for the flamewar, but I've been busy. - -*-*-*- Coze Demon of Public Choice Theory Shedite of the Game Quote: "Yes, I think you're right. Those nasty huge corporations have been skimping on safety procedures to increase profits! There ought to be a law! In fact, I'll help you pass it...." (18 months later): "Oh dear, oh dear. It appears that the safety bureau you advocated is helping those corporations jack up prices by creating regulations to raise barriers to entry and quelch its competitors. How unexpected! How dreadful! Who could possibly have expected regulatory capture to occur? Perhaps you should consider changing some incentives by smiting those *awful* people with fire and sword?" Personality: More than a third of the great princes of Hell -- Asmodeus, Malphas, Kobal, Valefor and Lilith -- are happiest making sure that no large-scale human institution actually works. This means that they frequently strive to create perverse incentives, bad regulations, inefficient budgets, and unrepresentative governments for mankind. Coze, as the Demon of Public Choice Theory, is tasked with explaining exactly how and why (complete with intricate mathematical theory and elaborate statistical analysis) this process is accomplished. There is something intensely satisfying to the demonic mind in explaining to its victims how and why they are going to fail, telling them how they could avoid it, and then watching them choose to self-destruct anyway. Asmodeus has assigned it to Earth, where it has spent some time making sure that mankind understands *exactly* what they are doing wrong. (This is one of the few ideas both the Game and Dark Humor consider good.) Coze is not a combatant, really, and isn't even much interested in luring academics to Hell. It prefers to teach them game theory and institutional economics just a little bit beyond the current capabilities of mankind, so that they can see what exactly their society is doing wrong. Typically, Coze chooses to possess economists and political scientists, and as such is usually found inhabiting badly-dressed middle-aged men and women. It doesn't mind; and neither do they, usually -- of course you get crabby and distracted when you are working on a really groundbreaking problem. Unsurprisingly, Coze is an extremely condescending creature, and automatically assumes that anyone with even the least fragment of fanaticism or idealism in their makeup -- whether human, angel or demon -- can be trivially manipulated because they won't pqay sufficient attention to the actual incentives their favored polices will create. It is, unfortunately, correct an astonishingly large fraction of the time. It does like to "keep its hands in" from time to time, and will help celestials (even angels!) manipulate the political process. It is deeply knowledgeable about who needs what, and is happy to tell celestials which wheels need to be greased. Teaching humans is fun, of course, but watching supposedly-superior celestial beings make fools of themselves is even more entertaining. [A free point to the person who can figure the origin of this little guy's name.] - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 14:44:26 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN>: DR WHO I. Inayat wrote: > Mm. May need to factor in a few alterations; perhaps, like the > Children of the Grigori, they have a Symphonic Connection, but > _theirs_ is to time. And regeneration'd also have to be > 'explained' somehow... A hereditary connection to the "time signature" of the Symphony would be very appropriate to the Children of Destiny. As to regeneration, perhaps they're born with 13 vessels and zero Trauma. Enough to make any Malakite envious. Only after they lose the 13th vessel, they're plain ol' mortal souls. > Yep. Might be better off as Eternals, though (from the Fifth > Doctor's (Peter Davison) era). Immortal beings who exist outside > Time and Space, and seem to play games with mortals... does that > sound like Superior behaviour (as seen by a mortal) or _what_? Oh, yes. Perhaps it's just that Eternals = Celestials. Then Black Guardian = Kronos, White Guardian = Yves, and the Eternals we saw in the one Davison episode were some Outcasts or Renegade, or servitors of Dark Humor. Earl ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1942 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.