From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Nov 28 02:23:24 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA03199 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 02:23:24 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id CAA31356 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 02:24:19 -0600 Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 02:24:19 -0600 Message-Id: <200011280824.CAA31356@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1944 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, November 28 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1944 In this digest: Re: IN> The Daleks and Hell *Who-mur* (was Dr. Who) IN> I figured that a taste won't hurt (heretical taste, no less) Re: IN> The Daleks and Hell *Who-mur* (was Dr. Who) Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) IN> Lilith: Queen of Hell (A Background Variant) Re: IN> Lilith: Queen of Hell (A Background Variant) Re: IN> The Daleks and Hell *Who-mur* (was Dr. Who) Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) Re: IN> Lilith: Queen of Hell (A Background Variant) Re: IN> The Daleks and Hell *Who-mur* (was Dr. Who) Re: IN> I figured that a taste won't hurt (heretical taste, no less) Re: IN> I figured that a taste won't hurt (heretical taste, no less) Re: IN> You can make anything into a RPG aid, if you look at it right. Re: IN>: DR WHO Re: IN> Cellphones Re: IN> Cellphones Re: IN> Cellphones Re: IN> The Daleks and Hell *Who-mur* (was Dr. Who) Re: IN> Cellphones IN> Asmodeus discovers a greater Game Re: IN> Cellphones Re: IN> The Daleks and Hell *Who-mur* (was Dr. Who) Re: IN> Cellphones Re: IN> Cellphones Re: IN> Cellphones Re: IN> Cellphones ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 03:56:48 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> The Daleks and Hell *Who-mur* (was Dr. Who) [snip] >Needless to say Heaven is laughing it's arse off. Laughing it's arse off, nothing. Who do you think slipped the Daleks the kind of interdimensional tech it would take to reach Hell in the first place? "And at the top of the all-Heavenly news hour today -- it's been six weeks since the Dalek invasion entered Hell, and Archangel Jean is *still* laughing. Spokesbeings for Judgement have stated that Archangel Dominic considers the situation 'a matter of grave concern'." - -- Chuckg _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 19:57:45 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> I figured that a taste won't hurt (heretical taste, no less) I'm working on this Heretical thing that Jonathan came up with (AA of Steam, and let me tell you, I'm going to have more sheer fun with this concept of his than I can stand), but I'm not entirely certain that the bit below would fit. Opinions cheerfully accepted. Real fast, so the rest of you don't have to hunt for his original post: Heresy. Jean takes Raphael's place (I am _astounded_ at what I can do with this idea alone), Vapula gets to go all mechanical, Soldekai takes over the tech stuff, steampunk results. Anyway, here's a rough taste of what kind of roads I'm thinking of going down with this... :) Moe The passing of Jean did not mean the loss of his secrets. The Archangel of Lightning was a careful angel, and made certain that his research, his discoveries, his applications of theory were marked, recorded and properly filed in triplicate, with backup locations. Those few Orphans of Lightning too saddened to seek another's service aimlessly (and mournfully) maintained this treasure trove of accumulated knowledge for hundreds of years. Occasionally Raphael or Eli would come to consult Jean's notebooks and blackboards, but the Halls were otherwise avoided. Vapula didn't even have to kill anyone while absconding with his stolen prize. When Soldekai came into his own, he changed all of this. He gathered up the Orphans of Lightning, and Inspired them to properly honor their beloved lost Superior. First came the Cataloging, which took a full decade (even with old Servitors come back to join in the task); but, by the end, every precious scrap of scientific and technological Truth had been found and prepared. Next came the time of the Great Design. Servitors of Creation, Dreams, Divine Fire, Lightning, Steam, Stone and Wisdom gathered to plan a celestial Engine that could store and retrieve these Truths. They designed it to be accurate, swift and rugged: but they also designed it to be beautiful, clean and bright. They designed it to reflect everything that Jean must have wished to say about his Word, but never could. And then they built it. Today, most of the Halls of Progress is given over to hold THE Engine (to Servitors of Steam, there is only one THE Engine). Merely walking through the insides, watching the endless interplay of gears, wires, and obscure shapes of metal, wood and light is awe-inspiring: but the finest thing about this monument to Jean is that it is useful, as well as beautiful. Those honored with research rights may use one of THE Engine's many terminals and gather the knowledge they need to create their own Devices. There is even a set of 'public' terminals that any may use to gather common scientific knowledge - thus, even after his death, Jean continues to teach new Servitors about the subtle beauty of the physical universe. But that is not the most astounding thing about THE Engine. There is a secret known only to Soldekai and his most trusted Servitors. Some time after THE Engine was built, some of its regular operators noticed that there would be the occasional written reply that seemed a bit… odd. Certain researchers would find themselves receiving information that, while not requested, proved very helpful in their research. There were even cases where THE Engine seemed to have small parts of its design shifted overnight. Eventually, the Archangel of Steam, aided by some of Jean's wisest Servitors, searched through the design, trying to discover an answer... and finding one. They call her Urania. ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:17:28 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> The Daleks and Hell *Who-mur* (was Dr. Who) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 22:46:03 -0500From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Daleks and Hell *Who-mur* (was Dr. Who) Lines in this post that made me laugh out loud: >and the Archangels of Final Judgement decided to >remain uninvolved I can see them looking up, shrugging, and going back to their cribbage game. >Unfortunately the invasion did not go as smoothly as >the Irradiated ones had planned with the demons of >Kobal quickly deducing just how easy it was to >get these guys tipped over. >Malphas has also made inroads by promising them >great power if they kill this, this, this, and this. >while Haagenti keeps trying to use them to season his >food. That one's my favorite, I think. :) >Needless to say Heaven is laughing it's arse off. As did I. :) Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:27:29 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:09:02 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) At 9:57 AM -0500 11/27/00, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >>So that sure sounds like Galahad, the Ethereal >>Superior, can be an add-on to canon, rather than a >>violation of it. >Ethereal Superiors, undead Superiors, Saintly >Superiors, sheep Superiors... >They're all out there in Doubt and Uncertainty land, >sure. But reeeeeeeeeeel unlikely to make it into >_Canon_ Doubt and Uncertainty land, if ya know whatta >mean. O;> What about the Hellsworn cows? Any way we can have the Hellsworn cows? And _where_, precisely, is this Sheep Superior that you mention? Is someone holding _out_ on us? If someone has written up Fenton, and hasn't shared, why, I'll, I'll... (pause) I'll remember that I've got a full writing schedule planned for the next week, and shut up before the queue gets any longer. :) Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 23:27:25 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: IN> Lilith: Queen of Hell (A Background Variant) Blame Moe. Here's part 1. +++++ Lucifer had been the First Balseraph. It wasn't entirely certain *what* his Word was when he Fell, though. Pride, perhaps. He had Pride in droves. And perhaps the very essence of the Balseraph's self-deception is Pride. The sheer hubris to believe you are right and all others are wrong, and the gall to force the Symphony to believe it. Or perhaps "Lies" was his Word. Many believed that of old Scratch, after all. In the end, it didn't matter. He had lies, and he had pride, and eventually they combined into fatal Hubris. He was caught in his House of the Morning Star by Michael, and Michael finished what he started in Heaven. Every Demon felt Lucifer's death scream. They felt it in their dark, beautiful Hearts, rippling and thrumming and crying out with the pain of the First Balseraph's Soul Death. They felt it in their Celestial Forces -- almost dissonantly they felt the outside Symphony complain with their utter, painful loss. Every Angel felt Lucifer's death scream. Felt the pain as the First of the Fallen died true death, the bright Archangel of Light forever stepped beyond redemption, beyond pride, beyond hubris, beyond lies. In the end, Lucifer was wrong and Michael forced it on him. And while some cold Angels of Stone smiled cold smiles with the horror, most Angels -- especially the ancient ones -- knelt and cried for who Lucifer had been, and would never be again. Every human felt Lucifer's death scream. Scientists would later talk about sunspots, or the odd Earthquake that did so much damage in Louisiana, or who knows what -- but every human felt that sudden twisting feeling. A liberation? Maybe. Or maybe the certain knowledge that the Universe was not what it was, and who can say if it were better or worse. In the end, it didn't matter. Lucifer was dead. Dead as a doornail. Rumors of his Remnant walking the streets with a beautiful -- yet anachronisticly dressed and acting -- woman as his guide are dismissed by Host and Hoarde alike. There was little time to mourn. Lucifer was dead. And with him Hell itself was dying. The first days were confused. The Princes were silent on issues -- all below them were assuming power struggles were taking place between the different factions, as the Princes each made a bid for Lord of Hell. All but two. Kronos, sitting in his Archives with a malevolent glower, made no attempt to rise to the Granite Throne. And Lilith, the beautiful Human Princess, stayed not in Hell but on Earth, waiting it out and keeping under wraps. The Demon of Stale Bong Water was the first. Imbap's painful, pathetic death took just ten days after the Death of Lucifer, his last Celestial Force winking out into the night publically, the fragment demonling who remained sobbing loudly enough for Heaven and Hell alike to hear before its tongue was silenced forever. And many weren't surprised. How long could such a pathetic Word last? What good was it, beyond the example it set forth? But the question was *why* did he die? And over the next few days, more and more of Hell's Word Bound died, their Words dying in them. Even the Seneschals weakened and died, even though their Tethers were potent still. The Words were failing in them. The Servitors of Lightning trapped the powerful Demon of Hubris himself, a Duke of Hell, and one of Baal's Servitors. Holding him locked down in the basement of the M.I.T. Media Lab, the Jeanites dispassionately measured and watched as the Duke's Word fell. Each day, another Word Force. The Demon begged and pleaded, twisting in his bonds as his very Word degraded. And yet, hubris was alive and well in the world. The Infernal Words were dying. Heaven launched assaults on all fronts -- military, conceptual and spiritual -- as Hell foundered. The Princes desperately began campaigns to bolster their failing Words before they lost their power and position. Vapula desperately began research to tame the Power of the Word itself.... But Kronos did little, and the Demons of Fate continued to ply their trade among humanity. Kronos didn't even seem to mind his Word-bound falling like flies. And Kronos himself seemed unaffected by the carnage. And no one knew where Lilith was. No one, that is, but Kronos himself... and Yves. It is said that both Yves and Kronos visited Lilith at the site of her Boston Harbor tether -- minor, compared to her nearby Lexington Green tether, but of special significance to Lilith herself. The three sat and drank tea in a shop by the docks, and spoke of many things, late into the night. At the end of the evening, Yves tied his coat tight against the evening mist and walked away. And Lilith and Kronos stayed, and Kronos whispered in Lilith's ear, and she agreed. The next morning, as yet another Word Force failed among Hell's dying Word-bound, Lilith and Kronos returned to Hell. They walked through the gates, without looking to the Angels of Final Judgement. They made their way through the streets and stenches. And they entered each of Hell's domains, one at a time, and Lilith stood upon a pedestal in each, Kronos standing below her, to her left side, slightly behind. In each domain, Lilith gave the same speech. "I am Lilith, the Daughter of Man," she said. "I was once Princess of Freedom. Where others obeyed, I chose. And I have been given the final choice. I am Queen of Hell now. All who would survive will serve me. Any who deny me will regret it." And so Lilith, who walked away from Eden and chose the path of self-governance, made her last choice -- and chose Selfish Power, without compassion for others. And then Kronos, the Prince of Fate, spoke, always the same way. "I am Fate," he said. "Fate is not denied. It is embraced. Lucifer has met His Fate. He is dead, his campaign dead with him. Fate serves the Queen of Hell. And Fate recognizes the Queen's Infernal Right to Rule, to assign territory, to promote the cause of the Revolution, and to cede Words and Principalities as *She* sees fit, and no other." And then they left, but at each stop -- in Perdition, in Hades, in Shal Mari, in Stygia and all the rest, more and more demons followed the pair, until finally they reached Lucifer's Granite Throne, which rejected all Princes and fools who attempted to sit upon it. And Lilith sat upon that cold throne, and the fires of Hell flared. And in that moment, all knew that Lilith truly was the Queen of Hell, now and through eternity, her Fate secure. Every Demon felt Lilith's Ascension. They felt it in their dark, beautiful Hearts, rippling and thrumming and crying out with the selfish hope of the First Woman's iron fist. They felt it in their Celestial Forces -- almost dissonantly they felt the outside Symphony shudder with their new leader's terrible vision. Every Angel felt Lilith's Ascension. Felt the pain as the Mother of Lilim accepted selfish Fate completely and utterly, of her own Free Will. And while some mournful Angels of Flowers wept hot tears with the horror, most Angels -- especially the ancient ones -- steeled themselves for the battle yet to come, and hardened their shining Hearts against her. Every human felt Lilith's Ascension. Scientists would later talk about plagues, or the odd volcanos that erupted worldwide, or who knows what -- but every human felt that sudden twisting feeling. A liberation? Maybe. Or maybe the certain knowledge that the Universe was not what it was, and who can say if it were better or worse. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 23:41:19 -0600 From: "Bradley Paranial" Subject: Re: IN> Lilith: Queen of Hell (A Background Variant) Bellisimo, Hope to see the other parts soon. Bradley Paranial, Elohite of the Sword _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 01:01:12 -0500 From: "Jason F. McBrayer" Subject: Re: IN> The Daleks and Hell *Who-mur* (was Dr. Who) On Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 08:17:28PM -0800, Maurice Lane wrote: > Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 22:46:03 -0500From: "Charles > Phipps" > >while Haagenti keeps trying to use them to season his food. > That one's my favorite, I think. :) Mine too. I can just see him picking them up, tipping them over, and shaking them over his plate. - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@carcosa.net | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 01:09:41 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) - --On Monday, November 27, 2000 8:27 PM -0800 Maurice Lane wrote: > And _where_, precisely, is this Sheep Superior that > you mention? Is someone holding _out_ on us? If > someone has written up Fenton, and hasn't shared, why, > I'll, I'll... The Dark Lord of the Pasture will probably poke his head out any day now... Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation (Rite: Create an itchy wool sweater.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 00:10:21 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: Re: IN> Lilith: Queen of Hell (A Background Variant) >Lilith Now that is just plain great prose. Damn straight. - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 00:11:18 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> The Daleks and Hell *Who-mur* (was Dr. Who) From: "Jason F. McBrayer" > On Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 08:17:28PM -0800, Maurice Lane wrote: > > Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 22:46:03 -0500From: "Charles > > Phipps" > > > >while Haagenti keeps trying to use them to season his food. > > > That one's my favorite, I think. :) > > Mine too. I can just see him picking them up, tipping them over, and > shaking them over his plate. Then once he finds out about the organic bits on the inside, taking one of those specialised knives used to open clams and oysters to them. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 00:13:44 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: Re: IN> I figured that a taste won't hurt (heretical taste, no less) >Steampunk IN Now, have you ever read The Difference Engine, by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling? It's great Steampunk, where Babbage was prime minister, while Disraeli kept writing romance novels, and there were steam-powered analytical engines all over the place. Excellent source of background material... - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 00:19:23 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> I figured that a taste won't hurt (heretical taste, no less) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Santiago" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 12:13 AM Subject: Re: IN> I figured that a taste won't hurt (heretical taste, no less) > Now, have you ever read The Difference Engine, by William > Gibson and Bruce Sterling? It's great Steampunk, where Babbage was > prime minister, while Disraeli kept writing romance novels, and there > were steam-powered analytical engines all over the place. Excellent > source of background material... And for those who wish somebody to have already done the work for them... GURPS Steampunk came out a couple weeks ago. Whip out your GURPS:IN conversion guides and work backwards? *g* - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 22:51:44 -0800 (PST) From: "O. S. Kerr" Subject: Re: IN> You can make anything into a RPG aid, if you look at it right. > I have occasionally thought it would be mildly amusing to > list the M-B types for IN Superiors, but the types are > probably too little-known for it to entertain the list as > a whole. Or, based on the M-B, assign temperaments to the AAs and DPs. Their personalities are archetypal anyway... O. ===== "...An' then... then I'm gonna get *medieval* on his arse." "How, exactly?" "I thought maybe a maypole," said Mr. Tulip reflectively, "An' then a display of country dancing, land tillage under the three-field system, several plagues, and if my --ing hand ain't too tired, the invention of the --ing horse collar." -- Terry Pratchett, The Truth __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 07:28:42 -0000 From: "I. Inayat" Subject: Re: IN>: DR WHO - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl Wajenberg" To: Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 7:44 PM Subject: Re: IN>: DR WHO > I. Inayat wrote: > > Mm. May need to factor in a few alterations; perhaps, like the > > Children of the Grigori, they have a Symphonic Connection, but > > _theirs_ is to time. And regeneration'd also have to be > > 'explained' somehow... > > A hereditary connection to the "time signature" of the Symphony > would be very appropriate to the Children of Destiny. Hmm. May try doing a writeup of Gallifreyan History along these lines... (maybe drawing on that Cosmic/Planetary divide you mentioned). > As to regeneration, perhaps they're born with 13 vessels and > zero Trauma. Enough to make any Malakite envious. Only after > they lose the 13th vessel, they're plain ol' mortal souls. Not 'no Trauma'... but perhaps a lessened or altered form. A vessel-to-vessel switch _would_ have effects (shake-up of Ethereal Forces, maybe, accounting for the personality changes...). And they _might_ be given extra vessels, beyond the thirteenth... but the price, and cost, would be too high for most... > > Yep. Might be better off as Eternals, though (from the Fifth > > Doctor's (Peter Davison) era). Immortal beings who exist outside > > Time and Space, and seem to play games with mortals... does that > > sound like Superior behaviour (as seen by a mortal) or _what_? > > Oh, yes. Perhaps it's just that Eternals = Celestials. > Then Black Guardian = Kronos, White Guardian = Yves, and > the Eternals we saw in the one Davison episode were some > Outcasts or Renegade, or servitors of Dark Humor. Maybe from the Celestial-only Choirs/Bands... Heh. Think about it. This one Soldier has faced off Yves _and_ Kronos... and he's still alive. (Hmm. Makes me wonder how you'd do the companions. Mortal, naturally... but are they Soldiers? Or ordinary people who're aware that there's 'more out there'?) And it'd be tempting to crowbar other Superiors in (Asmodeus as the Celestial Toymaker, for example). Why do they behave differently elsewhere than Earth? Maybe the Earthly manifestation is only _one_ aspect of who/what they actually are... ...and perhaps Yves and Kronos are _far_ more then the others can concieve (well, that's true in IN canon, but it'd translate well...) Imran ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 07:32:41 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones >... and there ain't a long-distance phone link in the world that I know of >that doesn't go through at least one microwave or satellite relay (IOW, >that >isn't being *broadcast*). Not true. Actually, it's illegal for long distance links to be sent both ways via satellite because the round trip delay is too long. One way is normal (for public telephony), although if you're lucky you will get a land line both ways. For celestial or military purposes, I don't see why you couldn't get the land lines allocated if you wanted. > >Oh, and there's a word for people who trust their PGPhone scrambler chips >in >a world where both sides have tech geeks of superhuman intellect and >resources... > >... "busted". [1] Heck, you can have your phones coded up with codebooks that change daily or something. If it's a fun thing to have in the game, then you can assume there would be a way to do it. Or you can give your messages in code. This is a cinematic game, it doesn't make sense to lay down the smack on neato ideas. jo _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 07:34:53 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones > >[snip] > > Of course, you shouldn't mention anything > > too important over a cell phone, though using a scrambled hard line > > is generally okay. > FYI, it's much easier to tap a landline than it is to decode a mobile signal (I'm assuming digital mobile here, not analogue) especially since you'd have to follow the subject around in order to stay in the same cell. jo _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 01:50:28 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jo Hart" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 7:34 AM Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones [snip] > FYI, it's much easier to tap a landline than it is to decode a mobile signal > (I'm assuming digital mobile here, not analogue) especially since you'd have > to follow the subject around in order to stay in the same cell. While local law enforcement finds doing so to be moderately tough sledding, good old No Such Agency can do it in their sleep. (The things I hear from friends of mine still in the service who got to play with the *milspec* frequency scanners...) - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 07:53:25 -0000 From: "I. Inayat" Subject: Re: IN> The Daleks and Hell *Who-mur* (was Dr. Who) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Glasgow" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 3:56 AM Subject: Re: IN> The Daleks and Hell *Who-mur* (was Dr. Who) > "And at the top of the all-Heavenly news hour today -- it's been six weeks > since the Dalek invasion entered Hell, and Archangel Jean is *still* > laughing. Spokesbeings for Judgement have stated that Archangel Dominic > considers the situation 'a matter of grave concern'." > Oh dear God... Now I've just flashed on the Dalek Invasion of *Heaven*. And two images pop up. Gabriel getting one of those truly *beatific* smiles on her face, popping over to Jean's Hall 23 and asking him if he'd mind lending her 'The Hand of Uriel'... And several _very_ confused Daleks trundling around Novalis' Glade, with garlands of flowers over their eyestalks... Imran ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 01:58:51 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jo Hart" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 7:32 AM Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones > >... and there ain't a long-distance phone link in the world that I know of > >that doesn't go through at least one microwave or satellite relay (IOW, > >that > >isn't being *broadcast*). > > Not true. Actually, it's illegal for long distance links to be sent both > ways via satellite because the round trip delay is too long. One way is > normal (for public telephony), although if you're lucky you will get a land > line both ways. I stand corrected. > For celestial or military purposes, I don't see why you couldn't get the > land lines allocated if you wanted. Because the Game owns the phone company, and Lightning owns the NSA. *g* (IOW, the Game blocks Heaven from getting landlines... and Lightning keeps the landlines that the Game is hogging from being secure enough for safe Game usage... and thus the stalemate grows...) > >Oh, and there's a word for people who trust their PGPhone scrambler chips > >in a world where both sides have tech geeks of superhuman intellect and > >resources... > > > >... "busted". [1] > > Heck, you can have your phones coded up with codebooks that change daily or > something. Possible, but *damned* cumbersome. Crypto is a major hobby of one of my friends, so I get bombarded with this stuff. *g* I mean, heck, your characters can be using one-time pads if they want. It's just that while one-time pads *are* unbreakable, they're also a royal pain in the tsuchis... > If it's a fun thing to have in the game, then you can assume > there would be a way to do it. OTOH, if the DM *doesn't* think it would be fun, then my laundry list of Reasons Why It Don't Work might be a great help to him... > Or you can give your messages in code. The problem with codes is that they attract attention. Anybody who hears you using them wonders why you're using code. And that's for people who *don't* know what you are. For people who *do* know what they're listening for... well, at this rate both Heaven and Hell will have 'Black Chambers' full of cryptanalysts. A limited exception is the way that professional espionage tradecraft techniques make heavy usage of signals that are designed to appear as commonplace, everyday conversational exchanges. You *never* call somebody on the phone to say "Meet me in the park at midnight as planned". You don't even say something that's obviously a code phrase, such as "The long sobs of the violins of autumn / Wounds my heart with a monotonous languor..." [1]. What you say is something like "Is Penny Stevens there? Oops, my bad. Wrong number." *click*. (Of course, the recipient knows that 'Penny Stevens' means 'Execute Plan A', while 'Bob Sinclair' means 'Abort' and 'David Winson' means 'Wait another week before activation') Ideally, it works best if there really is a Penny Stevens in the phone book... whose phone # is only one digit off from the # you called. But that's why God invented reverse-lookup phone directories... > This is a cinematic game, it doesn't make sense to lay down the smack on > neato ideas. It darn sure does if said neato idea could lead to ruining the tone... which is a possible consequence of making real-time communication between Our Heroes and Home Base too easy. GURPS Space had a great chapter on the various possible speeds/availabilities of communications, and each one's respective effects on gameplay... - -- Chuckg [1] Two brownie points for spotting where that one is from. *g* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 02:00:16 -0600 From: Graveyard Greg Subject: IN> Asmodeus discovers a greater Game OK, for those of you who know me, I write an online comic called Gaming Guardians. The basic idea behind it is that every game system is a complete universe by itself, so... What if Asmodeus discovered the truth about his universe? That he is in a GAME? Would he become even more powerful? Less? Opinions, because I might just be visiting the In Nomine universe....Heaven help us all! Graveyard Greg Writer of Gaming Guardians--the comic! http://gamingguardians.keenspace.com _______________________________________________ Why pay for something you could get for free? NetZero provides FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 02:51:08 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones At 7:32 AM -0500 11/28/00, Jo Hart wrote: > >This is a cinematic game, it doesn't make sense to lay down the >smack on neato ideas. Now *that* bears repeating. Remember, kids. It's Miraculous. Sometimes, you can get away with things. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 02:06:50 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> The Daleks and Hell *Who-mur* (was Dr. Who) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "I. Inayat" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 1:53 AM Subject: Re: IN> The Daleks and Hell *Who-mur* (was Dr. Who) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charles Glasgow" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 3:56 AM > Subject: Re: IN> The Daleks and Hell *Who-mur* (was Dr. Who) > > > "And at the top of the all-Heavenly news hour today -- it's been six weeks > > since the Dalek invasion entered Hell, and Archangel Jean is *still* > > laughing. Spokesbeings for Judgement have stated that Archangel Dominic > > considers the situation 'a matter of grave concern'." > Oh dear God... Now I've just flashed on the Dalek Invasion of *Heaven*. Actually, the 'matter of grave concern' I was thinking about was the fact that Jean had been hysterically laughing for six weeks straight. If he were Kobal, nobody would pay much mind. But *Jean*? Uncontrolled and prolonged emotional episodes are worrisome when they show up in any Elohite. For Jean, they're not just worrisome, they're downright alarming. (And, given that I had Jean being the one who leaked the info that let the Daleks go to Hell in the first place, perhaps even dissonant -- he's enjoying the results of his own actions too much.) - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 03:09:16 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones At 1:50 AM -0600 11/28/00, Charles Glasgow wrote: >(The things I hear from >friends of mine still in the service who got to play with the *milspec* >frequency scanners...) Ahh, but that little chip inside the phone -- the one that looks like silicon but has Jean's imprint or Vaputech Labs's logo etched in at a nanometer by a nanometer on the top? It's amazing how well it encrypts that signal. And weirdly enough, if you open the cellphone's case, the chip melts into nothingness. The NSA and military specs don't hold a candle to Heaven and Hell, and cryptography's too fluid to be reliable between them. When the cyphers got to be triple 4096 bit, it was easier to try to follow the opposition with parabolic microphones.... (There's a tiny bit of MST3K wisdom at play here. When you think too much about the real world particulars, sit back and relax. Enjoy!) - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 08:10:31 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones > >While local law enforcement finds doing so to be moderately tough sledding, >good old No Such Agency can do it in their sleep. (The things I hear from >friends of mine still in the service who got to play with the *milspec* >frequency scanners...) GSM is difficult to break -- not impossible, but requires rooms of mainframes. UMTS was designed as a military system, and is that much more difficult even than GSM. It isn't a trivial problem. That doesn't mean agencies can't do it, but if you want to let celestials phone home in your games, it isn't that much of a stretch to give them secure lines. (If I was an agency, I would be trying to tap into the main exchanges rather than scanning the air interface -- it would be a lot easier.) And like I said, you can always give your messages in code. jo _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 02:17:34 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jo Hart" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 8:10 AM Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones [snip] > (If I was an agency, I would be trying to tap into the main exchanges rather > than scanning the air interface -- it would be a lot easier.) True enough, which is how we got Carnivore and darn near got Clipper Chips. Of course, celestials *have* agencies... > And like I said, you can always give your messages in code. And like I said, sometimes the usage of code gives away more than it conceals. (Traffic analysis can be *such* a bear...) - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 03:20:43 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones At 1:58 AM -0600 11/28/00, Charles Glasgow wrote: >Because the Game owns the phone company, and Lightning owns the NSA. *g* > >(IOW, the Game blocks Heaven from getting landlines... and Lightning keeps >the landlines that the Game is hogging from being secure enough for safe >Game usage... and thus the stalemate grows...) I'm not arguing the above, as it's clearly a campaign/style thing. IMC, however, there's almost *no* agencies "owned" by Heaven or Hell. Too dangerous. Too many resources committed. It's almost certain that every black op operation has plenty of Servitors and Soldiers from both sides (and several factions within those sides) in them, but to say "the Game owns the phone company" to me makes IN too close to Illuminati. Yes, the NSA's headquarters is a Tether, but that doesn't make the organization under Lightning's control. To me, the essence of In Nomine is that mortal hands control the world, and Heaven and Hell try to influence it. To make major human institution under the control of one side or the other is to make humanity secondary to their Celestial masters, IMO. So I don't touch it. Like I said, style thing. > > Heck, you can have your phones coded up with codebooks that change daily >or >> something. > >Possible, but *damned* cumbersome. Crypto is a major hobby of one of my >friends, so I get bombarded with this stuff. *g* > >I mean, heck, your characters can be using one-time pads if they want. It's >just that while one-time pads *are* unbreakable, they're also a royal pain >in the tsuchis... Seems to me that we're assuming mortal methodologies. There is more in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than can be safely counted in your cryptography methodology books. >It darn sure does if said neato idea could lead to ruining the tone... which >is a possible consequence of making real-time communication between Our >Heroes and Home Base too easy. I think the tone is a lot more ruined, honestly, by phoning up the Lightning Tether and being told "we can't discuss this on an open line -- too many people could be listening" instead of calling Lightning and having an androgenous voice intone "this line is secure. Report." If you don't want home base to be too easily contacted, let that become a mission parameter. "Due to the sensitive nature of this mission, it is forbidden to use terrestrial methods of communication, even if said methods are celestially secure." I have little problem enforcing tone when I need to. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1944 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.