From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Nov 28 09:18:37 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27363 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 09:18:35 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id JAA10803 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 09:18:13 -0600 Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 09:18:13 -0600 Message-Id: <200011281518.JAA10803@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1945 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, November 28 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1945 In this digest: Re: IN> Cellphones Re: IN> Cellphones Re: IN> Cellphones Re: IN> Cellphones IN> Thoughts on Tethers Re: IN> Dr. Who Re: IN> The Daleks and Hell *Who-mur* (was Dr. Who) Re: IN> Dr. Who Re: IN> Cellphones Re: IN> Asmodeus discovers a greater Game Re: IN> There is no real urgency to answer this one. Re: IN> Dr. Who Re: IN> There is no real urgency to answer this one. Re: IN> Cellphones Re: IN> Cellphones Re: IN> Cellphones Re: IN> Cellphones Re: IN> Cellphones Re: IN> How Do Word Forces Work? Re: IN> Lilith: Queen of Hell (A Background Variant) Re: IN> Cellphones Re: IN> Asmodeus discovers a greater Game ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 02:26:30 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Whistling in the Dark" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 2:09 AM Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones [snip] > Ahh, but that little chip inside the phone -- the one that looks like > silicon but has Jean's imprint or Vaputech Labs's logo etched in at a > nanometer by a nanometer on the top? It's amazing how well it > encrypts that signal. And weirdly enough, if you open the cellphone's > case, the chip melts into nothingness. a) that must make servicing an absolute bear. b) Great. The phones are now ethereal talismans or something similar? Something enchanted? Break out or invent the relic-detecting gizmos, the opposition just made the mistake of carrying a *standardized* items which is readily identifiable as non-mundane from a distance. (For a much more extreme example of such silliness, think about the GURPS Black Ops 'Omicron Device'. The Greys must have been dumber than J. Fenimore Cooper Indians to not have figured out long ago that the Black Ops are the *only* people on TL7 Earth wearing those specific pieces of TL8+ cyberware in their heads! Complete with active-on-demand location transponders! I mean, come *on*... that's as dumb as ordering all of your Secret Police Spies to have identifiying numbers tattooed on them.) > The NSA and military specs don't hold a candle to Heaven and Hell, > and cryptography's too fluid to be reliable between them. When the > cyphers got to be triple 4096 bit, it was easier to try to follow the > opposition with parabolic microphones.... I'd forgotten this earlier.... Corporeal Song of Tongues. Eesh. It sounds as bad as trying to use cryptography vs. Lensmen. It just don't work, going by the description... > (There's a tiny bit of MST3K wisdom at play here. When you think too > much about the real world particulars, sit back and relax. Enjoy!) To heck with the real world, even the game rules don't quite support it. Besides, I derive a large portion my enjoyment from living in a world where the opposition acts in a manner that would make sense for a reasonably intelligent entity in their position with their resources. (Yes, I am the kind of person who will go to an action movie and spend my time muttering under my breath "No, you idiot, shoot THROUGH the couch!") - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 02:30:27 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Whistling in the Dark" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 2:20 AM Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones > At 1:58 AM -0600 11/28/00, Charles Glasgow wrote: [snip] > I'm not arguing the above, as it's clearly a campaign/style thing. > IMC, however, there's almost *no* agencies "owned" by Heaven or Hell. > Too dangerous. Too many resources committed. It's almost certain that > every black op operation has plenty of Servitors and Soldiers from > both sides (and several factions within those sides) in them, but to > say "the Game owns the phone company" to me makes IN too close to > Illuminati. Fair' nuff. > Yes, the NSA's headquarters is a Tether, but that doesn't make the > organization under Lightning's control. To me, the essence of In > Nomine is that mortal hands control the world, and Heaven and Hell > try to influence it. To make major human institution under the > control of one side or the other is to make humanity secondary to > their Celestial masters, IMO. So I don't touch it. You don't need total control for this to still work. The mere *potential* of the capability being there (IOW, the fact that your limited but still notable degree of influence could be exerted in this particular regard today) is enough to deter the opposition. And vice versa re: the Game's phone company people... it only takes one of them to deny your request for a dedicated landline, or sneak through one of their own. > Like I said, style thing. > > > > Heck, you can have your phones coded up with codebooks that change daily > > > or something. > > > >Possible, but *damned* cumbersome. Crypto is a major hobby of one of my > >friends, so I get bombarded with this stuff. *g* > > > >I mean, heck, your characters can be using one-time pads if they want. It's > >just that while one-time pads *are* unbreakable, they're also a royal pain > >in the tsuchis... > > Seems to me that we're assuming mortal methodologies. There is more > in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than can be safely counted in your > cryptography methodology books. 1 + 1 = 2, whether you be celestial, mortal, ethereal, or undead. Ditto for the more complex branches of mathematics that are the foundations of cryptography. > >It darn sure does if said neato idea could lead to ruining the tone... which > >is a possible consequence of making real-time communication between Our > >Heroes and Home Base too easy. > > I think the tone is a lot more ruined, honestly, by phoning up the > Lightning Tether and being told "we can't discuss this on an open > line -- too many people could be listening" instead of calling > Lightning and having an androgenous voice intone "this line is > secure. Report." Depends on what the tone is. After all, if even Lightning's phone lines can't ever be *certain* to be secure, then that right there should teach the players a healthy respect for the Game and/or Technology... - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 03:40:41 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones At 2:26 AM -0600 11/28/00, Charles Glasgow wrote: >a) that must make servicing an absolute bear. Yup. OTOH... well, I'll finish this point in a half-sec >b) Great. The phones are now ethereal talismans or something similar? >Something enchanted? Break out or invent the relic-detecting gizmos, the >opposition just made the mistake of carrying a *standardized* items which is >readily identifiable as non-mundane from a distance. Actually, "Cell Phone" is perhaps the most common Corporeal Relic IMC. So admittedly, I'm assuming that the PCs have at least 1 point and maybe more invested in them. Further, they go along with when they do Vessel swapping and so on and so forth. This covers servicing too, really. Does it make it detectable as a Relic? Sure. But if someone's got a Vapula tricorder set to "Relic scan," I think the half-squad's worth of Fiery Swords will give the group away before the 1 point cell phones will. > > The NSA and military specs don't hold a candle to Heaven and Hell, >> and cryptography's too fluid to be reliable between them. When the >> cyphers got to be triple 4096 bit, it was easier to try to follow the >> opposition with parabolic microphones.... > >I'd forgotten this earlier.... Corporeal Song of Tongues. Eesh. It sounds >as bad as trying to use cryptography vs. Lensmen. It just don't work, going >by the description... I wouldn't personally allow the Song of Tongues to translate an encrypted transmission. That's not a language. I'm not saying there might not be a Song to do it -- just that Tongues won't do it. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 03:51:42 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones At 2:30 AM -0600 11/28/00, Charles Glasgow wrote: > > Seems to me that we're assuming mortal methodologies. There is more >> in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than can be safely counted in your >> cryptography methodology books. > >1 + 1 = 2, whether you be celestial, mortal, ethereal, or undead. Ditto for >the more complex branches of mathematics that are the foundations of >cryptography. I'm sure not looking to get into an argument about this, so don't think I am, but let me amplify my above point. You're assuming that Celestial Cryptography has a basis in mathematics. I'll admit when I mentioned 4096 bit encryption, I was too. Well, maybe it is, and maybe it's not, but Heavenly (and Infernal) technology may use understandings of mathematics and the universe so mind-numbingly advanced that a Ph.D. in three math disciplines, capable of hand-coding a Cray in assembler and not making a single error finds himself certain he's reading gibberish. Perhaps somewhere in the understanding of movement of quarks and superstring theory there is a branch of mathematics describing behaviors and methods for things we have no ability to see or comprehend at our tech level or thirty TLs from now. And maybe that branch of mathematics could be adapted to a Cryptography that would make the NSA shudder and hide under their nonexistent beds. Note that if it's true, Hell came up with it first. This is the area where Technology has an edge -- the adaption of new learning to novel ideas. Jean doesn't anticipate serendipitous responses to innovation nearly as well as Vapula finds them. But, once Infernal Technology seizes it, sooner or later Lightning will duplicate it, and the technological neocryptographic arms race commences. You want a frighteningly real world physics example? Postulate a pair of blank 1 time use "pads" with entangled electron pairs. (Real world physics, here.) When the message needs to be sent, the key is scribbled on one pad with a sensitive stylus, shaping the electrons to match the key on one pad. Instantly, the entangled electrons on the other pad match it, and you have a key you program into the two comms. Of course, if we're postulating working entangled electron spin pairs, there's no point in wasting them on cryptography pairs, since you can use them to build an FTL radio that's *incapable* of having its signal intercepted, but I'm being pedantic here. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 18:07:29 +0800 From: Manny Nepomuceno Subject: IN> Thoughts on Tethers Heyo, Got an e-mail client. Hopefully, all will be well now. Been thinking about Tethers. I know Liber Castellorum answered a lot of questions about Tethers, but it never reached these benighted shores, and the core rulebook wasn't very clear on Tether rules. So, this isn't a question about rules. It's a long ramble about the concept of Tethers, touching slightly on whatever the rules might be. As I understand it, Tethers are like Words. They aren't Words, strictly speaking, or else Word-bound Seneschals wouldn't be able to become Seneschals in the first place. They are similar to Words in that a selected Celestial can be attuned to the theme of the Tether running through the Symphony. But they are also unlike Words in that they are attuned to a chosen Superior, who is himself/herself attuned to a Word. Killing Jordi wouldn't destroy the Word of Birds. But what would happen to a Tether of Animals if Jordi were killed? *mumbles to self* Hmmm, if Tethers don't die when the Superior dies, there might still be Tethers to Knowledge or Purity and the like somewhere out there... *looks up distractedly* Whoops. They are also unlike Words in that they require a single Superior to stabilize. Granting of divine and infernal Words needs the combined effort of the Seraphim Council or the Morningstar's dark will (or the will of the Divine). But stabilizing a Tether doesn't take all of that -- if I'm not mistaken, it requires a Superior who is willing to spend Essence. On a side note, can a Superior run out of Essence in the first place? Doesn't really seem likely, but the writeup on Kobal in Superiors 2 seems to indicate this. But can Tethers be attuned to Superiors who aren't even remotely related to the Tether's concept? In an alternate history, could the US Supreme Court building, one of Dominic's Tethers, have been stabilized and thus claimed by Novalis? More on the Tethers-as-Words concept: If Tethers are Words, shouldn't Tethers have something similar to Word-forces? Or is a 12-Force Seneschal weaker than a 12-Force minor Wordbound? (All other things being equal, of course.) And on the Tethers-as-not-quite-Words concept: Why can't non-Superior Words have Tethers? After all, it's the Word that's important, not the celestial attuned to the Word. Unless Superiorhood changes the nature of the _Word_, not just the celestial... Yeah, yeah, someone's probably going to point me to the Liber Castellorum...in which case, I hope overseas delivery won't hurt my Christmas budget too badly...:) Head hurts. Me go now. Manny Neps ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 10:16:52 +0000 From: Pak Chan Subject: Re: IN> Dr. Who Nice write up! However a few changes from a Brit... At 16:34 27/11/2000 -0500, you wrote: >Some of you may remember a character of mine from a while back called Isaac. >This is based alot on him if you remember. > >(he's in the Archives around Nov 18) > >Dr. Who >Elohim of Time in service to Destiny >(depending on incarnation Outcast and even briefly a Habbalah) >Timelord >Friend of the Sages > >Cor-2 Str-4 Agi-4* >Eth-6 Int-12 Pre-12* >Cel-3 Will-6 Per-6* > >Vessel: 13 Human 2/ > >Servants: The Doctor has a tendancy to pick them up....don't ask how. > >Songs: * Song of Attraction (Corporeal 1/, Ethereal 4/, Celestial 3/), Song >of Charm (Corporeal 1, Ethereal 2/, Celestial 4/), Song of Fruitation Not sure why he would have the Song of Fruitation...I don't remember him fathering anyone? >(Corporeal 1/, Celestial 3/), Song of Harmony (Corporeal 3/, Ethereal 6/), >Song of Healing (Corporeal 3/, Celestial 3/), Song of Shields (Corporeal >2/), Song of Tongues 4/ > >Skills: Artistry 2/, Chemistry 2/, Driving 2/, Computer operation 4/, Escape >2/, Electronics 6/, Fast Talk 3/, Fighting 3/, Dodging 4/, Large Weapon >(Sword) 4/, Lock Picking 1/, Medicine 4/, Move Silently 1/, Pick Pocket 2/, >Ranged weapon (pistol) 2/, Running 1/, Savoir Faire 6/, Survival 4/, Tactics >3/, Throwing 2/, Tracking 6/* > >Artifacts: Tardis ???/, Reliquary Scarf 2/, Reliquary Coat 10/ You forgot the Sonic Screwdriver and the Regeneration Chamber (see below). >* These skills tend to change drastically as the Doctor improves himself, >suffers amnesia, loses and gains forces. I think that the regeneration could better be done with a song, one whose effects varies with the number of times a particular time lord has already used it. Off the top of my head, what about something like this (no guarantee that the mechanics are remotely correct as I've never done this before!) Songs of Entropic Regeneration Corporeal: Essence Cost: (Vessel Level). Disturbance: 1. Range: Self. This allows the complete regeneration of the singer's vessel, but the singer has little control over the way the song works. The use of this song completely alters the appearance of the vessel, only keeping the same gender and species as the previous appearance of the vessel. The new vessel is subject to spontaneous disintegration unless the Ethereal Song of Entropic Regeneration is also used. Song Result: CD 1 = Vessel will be of random gender, random appearance. 2 = Singer can control the vessel's gender. 3 = Singer can control one more aspect of the vessel's appearance (e.g. eye colour, height, etc.). 4 = Singer can control two more aspects of the vessel's appearance. 5 = Singer can control three more aspects of the vessel's appearance. 6 = Singer can control four more aspects of the vessel's appearance. All CD results are cumulative (or override) with lower results (e.g., CD 6 allows the user to control the vessel's gender and ten aspects of the vessel's appearance). GMs should feel free to improvise for Interventions. Ethereal: Essence Cost: (Ethereal Forces). Disturbance: 1. Range: Self. This song stabilises the vessel resulting from the use of the Corporeal Song of Entropic Regeneration and must be completed within a minute of the vessel's regeneration. The song takes 40 seconds to complete, during which time the singer must concentrate on it, resulting in the vessel appearing confused for that time. A side effect of this song is that the singer's personality is changed. This personality change does not fundamentally alter the singer's goals in life, but may alter the approach taken (e.g. changing from flower-child approach to a war-child approach to solving problems or dealing with people). Song Result: CD 1 = The vessel is stabilised for 4 years. 2 = The vessel is stabilised for 8 years. 3 = The vessel is stabilised for 16 years. 4 = The vessel is stabilised for 32 years. 5 = The vessel is stabilised for 64 years. 6 = The vessel is stabilised for 128 years. The Song is unusual as any roll of 12 (e.g. 6 6 x) will result in the automatic failure of the Song. GMs should feel free to improvise for Interventions. Celestial: This hypothetical song, if it existed, would stabilise the other two songs if sung first. It would remove the automatic failure condition in the Ethereal song of Entropic Regeneration and allow greater control over the appearance of the vessel. New Artifact: Sonic Screwdriver. Cost ? An artifact that grants +1 to the difficulty and +3 to the check digit of any electronics skill roll when tampering with any electronic system. It is also capable of manipulating small items (e.g. screws, rivets), usually in order to gain access to an electronic system to tamper with... New Artifact: Regeneration Chamber. Cost ? A reliquary that holds sufficient essence to cast the Corporeal Song of Entropic Regeneration, followed by the Ethereal song of Entropic Regeneration. The artifact can cast the Corporeal Song of Entropic Regeneration, but not the Ethereal version, hence usage of the Regeneration Chamber can only be used only by those who know the Ethereal Song of Entropic Regeneration. Comments? Suggestions? Pak ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:55:32 -0000 From: "I. Inayat" Subject: Re: IN> The Daleks and Hell *Who-mur* (was Dr. Who) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Glasgow" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 8:06 AM Subject: Re: IN> The Daleks and Hell *Who-mur* (was Dr. Who) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "I. Inayat" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 1:53 AM > Subject: Re: IN> The Daleks and Hell *Who-mur* (was Dr. Who) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Charles Glasgow" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 3:56 AM > > Subject: Re: IN> The Daleks and Hell *Who-mur* (was Dr. Who) > > > > > "And at the top of the all-Heavenly news hour today -- it's been six > weeks > > > since the Dalek invasion entered Hell, and Archangel Jean is *still* > > > laughing. Spokesbeings for Judgement have stated that Archangel Dominic > > > considers the situation 'a matter of grave concern'." > > > Oh dear God... Now I've just flashed on the Dalek Invasion of *Heaven*. > > Actually, the 'matter of grave concern' I was thinking about was the fact > that Jean had been hysterically laughing for six weeks straight. If he were > Kobal, nobody would pay much mind. But *Jean*? > > Uncontrolled and prolonged emotional episodes are worrisome when they show > up in any Elohite. For Jean, they're not just worrisome, they're downright > alarming. > > (And, given that I had Jean being the one who leaked the info that let the > Daleks go to Hell in the first place, perhaps even dissonant -- he's > enjoying the results of his own actions too much.) Whoops. I'd worked out what the 'matter of grave concern' was, but the mention of Heaven just inspired me to think 'what if?'... On a tangenital note, consider: The Time Lords bind black holes, manipulate stars, travel in space and time... Now consider, if that's what _they're_ capable of, what Lightning and Technology have access to in the Doctor's universe. Be afraid. Be very, _very_ afraid... Imran ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:55:37 -0000 From: "I. Inayat" Subject: Re: IN> Dr. Who - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pak Chan" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 10:16 AM Subject: Re: IN> Dr. Who > Nice write up! However a few changes from a Brit... > > At 16:34 27/11/2000 -0500, you wrote: > >Some of you may remember a character of mine from a while back called Isaac. > >This is based alot on him if you remember. > > > >(he's in the Archives around Nov 18) > > > >Dr. Who > >Elohim of Time in service to Destiny > >(depending on incarnation Outcast and even briefly a Habbalah) > >Timelord > >Friend of the Sages > > > >Cor-2 Str-4 Agi-4* > >Eth-6 Int-12 Pre-12* > >Cel-3 Will-6 Per-6* > > > >Vessel: 13 Human 2/ > > > >Servants: The Doctor has a tendancy to pick them up....don't ask how. > > > >Songs: * Song of Attraction (Corporeal 1/, Ethereal 4/, Celestial 3/), Song > >of Charm (Corporeal 1, Ethereal 2/, Celestial 4/), Song of Fruitation > > Not sure why he would have the Song of Fruitation...I don't remember him > fathering anyone? > Well, he has a granddaughter, which suggests he had a child. And his granddaughter does seem to be a Time Lady in her own right. (which would make the concept of 'Doctor as Celestial' harder to do. Not impossible, but harder...) Imran ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 07:17:33 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones - --On Tuesday, November 28, 2000 2:26 AM -0600 Charles Glasgow wrote: > (Yes, I am the kind of person who will go to an action movie and > spend my time muttering under my breath "No, you idiot, shoot > THROUGH the couch!") ...and, to the sound of thunderous applause, Rachel Greene finally gets it in the head... Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("Full Metal Gunther?") ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 07:30:28 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Asmodeus discovers a greater Game - --On Tuesday, November 28, 2000 2:00 AM -0600 Graveyard Greg wrote: > OK, for those of you who know me, I write an online comic called > Gaming Guardians. The basic idea behind it is that every game > system is a complete universe by itself, so... > > What if Asmodeus discovered the truth about his universe? That he > is in a GAME? > > Would he become even more powerful? Less? Opinions, because I might > just be visiting the In Nomine universe....Heaven help us all! > You've skimmed over the fact that one of the Princes already *knows* he's in a game. He's keeping the punchline to himself.[1] I have an ancient Champions character with the "role-playing aware" trait. Great, great fun... Max cradled Jenni's unconscious form. "Oh man, this looks bad. I think she broke her arm or something in the fall!" The giant elemental peered down at the girl. "Look like greenstick fracture of ulna. Bump head but not break skull." *Everyone* turns and looks at Rock, askance. "Rock have Paramedic, eighteen or less," he shrugged, by way of explanation. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation (Safety Tip: Reality Storms have no place in IOU.) [1] So does one of the Archangels, but he wandered off to play Amber. Go fig. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 12:33:47 -0000 From: "Laurent" Subject: Re: IN> There is no real urgency to answer this one. Azrael wrote: > Perhaps a slight modification similar to the Supernatural Damage/Strength of > Nightbane, or the Mega Damage/Strength of Rifts/Heroes Unlimited/Palladium? I was wondering about that the other day, during a ShadowRun game. Our troll character, the usual 500 pounds death-machine all-cyber type wants to break into an appartment and says "I smash the door with a kick". The GM makes him roll an average TN for that, and the Troll misses (somehow). The little human standing next to him then tries and litteraly obliterates the door. Well, it just didn't feel right. So what I think is that we just get a bit mixed up between strength and weigth. Or that weigth should give you a bonus for every pushing test. I mean, let's take a standard situation: your walking your pet elephant in town, and suddenly, it starts scratching its back against a wall. The wall collapses but it's due to the weight of the elephant compared to the resistance of the wall, not the strength of the elephant. The animal didn't even push! So my ruling on this type of situation would be not to roll what shouldn't be rolled. If Mothra is as heavy as the Empire State Building and it lands on the PC, the PC dies. Point. Just allow him a dodge roll and that's it. As for a giant ant destroying a building, a troll smashing a door or a little mouse crushing a car, it's the very same situation: check the weigth difference between the attacker and the object, and give the attacker a fighting dodge with a more or less easy TN, then cumulate the attack damage. Dunno if I answered any question, but I did my best. Laurent. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 07:36:40 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Dr. Who - --On Tuesday, November 28, 2000 10:16 AM +0000 Pak Chan wrote: >> Songs: * Song of Attraction (Corporeal 1/, Ethereal 4/, Celestial >> 3/), Song of Charm (Corporeal 1, Ethereal 2/, Celestial 4/), Song >> of Fruitation > > Not sure why he would have the Song of Fruitation...I don't > remember him fathering anyone? You're thinking of the song of *fruition*. The Corporeal Song of *Fruitation* produces a number of bowls of a certain breakfast cereal, to a maximum of the song's level times the check digit. Try not to think about the Ethereal version. I dare you. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("Follow your nose.") ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 07:54:27 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> There is no real urgency to answer this one. - --On Tuesday, November 28, 2000 12:33 PM +0000 Laurent wrote: > Azrael wrote: >> Perhaps a slight modification similar to the Supernatural >> Damage/Strength of Nightbane, or the Mega Damage/Strength of >> Rifts/Heroes Unlimited/Palladium? > > I was wondering about that the other day, during a ShadowRun game. > Our troll character, the usual 500 pounds death-machine all-cyber > type wants to break into an appartment and says "I smash the door > with a kick". The GM makes him roll an average TN for that, and the > Troll misses (somehow). The little human standing next to him then > tries and litteraly obliterates the door. Well, it just didn't feel > right. > If it were the campaign I play in, that would've been played for laughs, but I think the GM wasn't on the ball in that scenario and you're right - mass should count. Case in point: I stepped into the line of a Panther when I shouldn't have once and ended up needing a full-bore bioware muscle job to make up for the, um, "missing tissue." I ended up with a strength of 9 on the SR scale, which for those of you playing along at home is a dead lift of a little over a quarter-ton without breaking a sweat, or even hardly noticing. But my *body weight* still clocks in at just under 200 pounds. To me, playing the detective and being me, this is comedy paradise. While it's true that there is no jar on God's earth I can't open now, I'll occasionally do things like grab an orc's collar to yank him down to my level and do an involuntary chin-up. Or catch the troll's fist (it's the size of my *head*) as he's trying to flatten me, and involuntarily take flying lessons. Human maxima, soldiers notwithstanding, is 10. It could be convenient to fudge that upwards, an effective point per 100 pounds of weight above 'average' human if two titans ever really needed to compare scores. I wholly agree that numbers should stay the heck out of the cinematic parts. =) I don't have my books with me at work...is the greater size reflected by or add into body hits, or not? Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation (Tess goes medieval, on the next episode of "Shoved through a wall by an Angel.") ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 07:21:31 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Whistling in the Dark" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 2:40 AM Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones [snip] > I wouldn't personally allow the Song of Tongues to translate an > encrypted transmission. That's not a language. I'm not saying there > might not be a Song to do it -- just that Tongues won't do it. Why isn't it a language? What *is* language, after all? - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:32:02 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones > >[snip] > > I wouldn't personally allow the Song of Tongues to translate an > > encrypted transmission. That's not a language. I'm not saying there > > might not be a Song to do it -- just that Tongues won't do it. > >Why isn't it a language? What *is* language, after all? > You're a GURPS player, aren't you? :) jo _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 08:40:55 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones - --On Tuesday, November 28, 2000 1:32 PM +0000 Jo Hart wrote: > > >> >> [snip] >> > I wouldn't personally allow the Song of Tongues to translate an >> > encrypted transmission. That's not a language. I'm not saying >> > there might not be a Song to do it -- just that Tongues won't do >> > it. >> >> Why isn't it a language? What *is* language, after all? >> > > > You're a GURPS player, aren't you? :) > Or he's being investigated by Ken Starr. It's hard to tell. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("And just what IS a gun, anyw-" *BANG*) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 08:04:53 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jo Hart" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 1:32 PM Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones > >[snip] > > > I wouldn't personally allow the Song of Tongues to translate an > > > encrypted transmission. That's not a language. I'm not saying there > > > might not be a Song to do it -- just that Tongues won't do it. > > > >Why isn't it a language? What *is* language, after all? > You're a GURPS player, aren't you? :) Yes. *Chuckg enters theory mode* I'm also making a point -- by going *with* the "It's a bloody miracle, don't limit it!" theory that has been the rationale as to why Corp. Shields can stop nuclear blasts without scuffing the paint, why *shouldn't* Corp. Tongues translate codes? Codes and ciphers are effectively artifical languages... at least from the POV of immortal beings who predate anything that human beings ever used as a linguistic concept... Yes, I know. Who would ever invent codes and ciphers in Heaven? (Raphael, as a purely intellectual exercise... kinda like crossword puzzles). But down in Hell's way... ... well, there has to be a reason why Kronos and Asmodeus haven't encrypted their files yet. It's not as if they *want* people mucking about in them after all. Instead, the descriptions read like how anybody who can physically enter the stacks can read the papers, and how their only security measures lie in controlling physical access and in trashing the card catalog so that they're the only people who can find anything in the stacks. Mayhap effective encryption is impossible to celestials? (Then again, Superiors 1 contains a mention of how Michael has encrypted his secret files... but then again, unlike the Archives in Hell Michael is the *only* person who is ever intended to read those things, so they're not really designed for communication with anybody else. His 'encryption' probably lies in the fact that those files are merely a notepad full of mnemonics and memory joggers [1], not the actual information itself... so even being able to read them in plain text wouldn't do anybody but him much good.) - -- Chuckg [1] Roleplaying example -- how hermetic mages in Shadowrun keep their grimoires. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 09:42:45 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones At 7:21 AM -0600 11/28/00, Charles Glasgow wrote: > >[snip] >> I wouldn't personally allow the Song of Tongues to translate an >> encrypted transmission. That's not a language. I'm not saying there >> might not be a Song to do it -- just that Tongues won't do it. > >Why isn't it a language? What *is* language, after all? From the writeup of Corporeal Tongues, p.85.... "A successful performance lets the subject in any human language -- in fact, in all human languages at the same time." Electronic encryption is not a human language. It is an electronic signal of patterned information that can be converted by a computer into signals that can be resolved by a telephone into human language. Listening to a conversion of the encrypted signal yields a squeal that has no basis in language. In other words, the encryption technology takes a human language, translates it into a *non* human language, submits the signal, resolves and decrypts it into a human language again. Ergo, the miracle doesn't apply here. As far as a verbal code or cypher being decrypted -- that mostly depends on the code or cypher. A verbal doubletalk code I might well let Song of Tongues decypher, since encoded text is still working in the langue sign/significator/significated relationship. A code that resolves to "execute plan 47, found in the blue book, decrypted by using code wheel 9" in communication I probably would not translate in terms of intent -- ie, the Singer might get the bits about plan 47, a blue book and code wheel 9, but they won't get "feed the President an ipicac while he's dining with the Japanese Prime Minister," because the listener wouldn't get that. So once again -- I wouldn't personally allow the Song of Tongues to translate an encrypted transmission. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 09:49:48 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> How Do Word Forces Work? Word Forces are an optional (I think) piece of game mechanics, introduced in the GM's Guide, to help people write up Word-bound celestials. They are a fourth kind of Force, in addition to Corporeal, Ethereal, and Celestial. Like any other Force, they let the owner store additional Essence. Their number can be added to various tasks, to make those tasks easier or surer. They wax and wane as the GM judges the Word-bound's influence waxes and wanes. The GM's Guide did not particularly want to give Word-Force numbers for Superiors, but reluctantly recommended that a brand-new, wet-behind-the-ears, Superior have a minimum of 20 (or 21, I forget) Word Forces. But really, the book recommends Superiors stay unquantified, except maybe for ranking of relative power, on the grounds of the First Law of Munchkinism, "If you give it stats, they will kill it." Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 10:12:24 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Lilith: Queen of Hell (A Background Variant) Very, very nice. One tiny quibble: Lilith would not announce herself as "Daughter of Man." She is no one's daughter, unless it be God's, a relationship she might or might not want to acknowledge. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 09:13:36 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Whistling in the Dark" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 8:42 AM Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones [snip] > From the writeup of Corporeal Tongues, p.85.... > > "A successful performance lets the subject in any human language -- > in fact, in all human languages at the same time." > > Electronic encryption is not a human language. It is an electronic > signal of patterned information that can be converted by a computer > into signals that can be resolved by a telephone into human language. > Listening to a conversion of the encrypted signal yields a squeal > that has no basis in language. > In other words, the encryption technology takes a human language, > translates it into a *non* human language, submits the signal, > resolves and decrypts it into a human language again. The problem here is the definition of 'human language'. I'd let Tongues translate binary code and/or ASCII into English and vice versa... and thus we start down the slipper slope... Plus, even if Corp Tongues can't do it straight out the gate, how much effort would it be to research a variant version in an electronic relic that *can* do this? Yours now from Vaputech... > Ergo, the miracle doesn't apply here. > > As far as a verbal code or cypher being decrypted -- that mostly > depends on the code or cypher. A verbal doubletalk code I might well > let Song of Tongues decypher, since encoded text is still working in > the langue sign/significator/significated relationship. A code that > resolves to "execute plan 47, found in the blue book, decrypted by > using code wheel 9" in communication I probably would not translate > in terms of intent -- ie, the Singer might get the bits about plan > 47, a blue book and code wheel 9, but they won't get "feed the > President an ipicac while he's dining with the Japanese Prime > Minister," because the listener wouldn't get that. That much I can agree with. > So once again -- I wouldn't personally allow the Song of Tongues to > translate an encrypted transmission. But *I* would... ... it lets the players have *so* much fun... ... and the DM, too. *g* - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 10:15:51 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Asmodeus discovers a greater Game Marc Bowden wrote: > I have an ancient Champions character with the "role-playing > aware" trait. Great, great fun... One of the suggested campaigns for "Over the Edge" is to slowly reveal to the PCs that they are PCs. E,g., they walk into a bar in The Edge and encounter this pointy-eared guy in medieval garb who natters on about being three points away from his next level. Earl ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1945 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.