From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed May 3 06:21:52 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA02166 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 06:21:51 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id GAA10073 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 3 May 2000 06:20:10 -0500 Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 06:20:10 -0500 Message-Id: <200005031120.GAA10073@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1609 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, May 3 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1609 In this digest: RE: IN> Pushing Books (Re: Players and Supplements) Re: IN> What happened? Re: IN> What happened? Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1606 Re: IN> What happened? IN> Something silly for Dom fans. Re: IN> Pushing Books (Re: Players and Supplements) Re: IN> Anti-Munchkin - formerly : Player mistakes RE: IN> In Nomine : Cybernetics and Cyberpunkesque Terrorism - Re: IN> Pushing Books (Re: Players and Supplements) Re: IN> Pushing Books (Re: Players and Supplements) Best Choir for Angel of Comedy (Was: Re: IN> Anti-Munchkin - formerly : Player mistakes) Re: IN> Pushing Books (Re: Players and Supplements) Re: IN> Flavortext and Worldview IN> Cybertech, pt 1 - Available Cybertech IN> Cybetech, pt 2 - Dangers of Cybertech IN> Pyramid Coverage of IN IN> Dr. Angel and Mr. Habb Re: IN> Pushing Books (Re: Players and Supplements) Re: Best Choir for Angel of Comedy (Was: Re: IN> Anti-Munchkin - formerly : Player mistakes) Re: IN> Christian Mods Re: IN> Pushing Books Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1606 Re: IN> Pushing Books Re: IN> Pushing Books (Re: Players and Supplements) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 15:57:14 -0700 From: "Robert Veneman-Hughes" Subject: RE: IN> Pushing Books (Re: Players and Supplements) > I don't think book updates will ever be popular until publishing moves > substantially to the web; then you may be able to buy > "upgrade copies" just > like you do for computer programs. I could also see > "renting" books, or > entire game-system lines, for a yearly fee. Not sure the > economics would > work, though -- the bane of net publishing. > AEG did a decent job with the 7th Sea Compendium between the first and second printings of 7th Sea. Of course, it was also free... A $15 update is still rather expensive... - -Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 18:24:57 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> What happened? Gregory Gietzen wrote: > In the heading under "Stan Paxton Games," they > said a few things about always turning out consistently quality games, but > then went on to say "what their games lack in spirit and imagination they > make up for in charts and sidebars." They also mentioned SP Games' latest > foray into modernity & ethical dilemmas, a game called _Holy Damnation_. > "However, the fact that no member of their staff has ever visited a > nightclub, kissed a member of the opposite sex or tried an illegal drug > hamstrung their efforts." Hmm. Probably falls into the "cruel but not entirely undeserved" category. Probably also falls into the "White Wolf is still bitter about GURPS Vampire being better than WoD Vampire" category. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 18:25:32 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> What happened? From: "David Edelstein" > > Hmm. Probably falls into the "cruel but not entirely undeserved" > category. Probably also falls into the "White Wolf is still bitter about > GURPS Vampire being better than WoD Vampire" category. I would guess that the category it falls into is actually the "We're making fun of the entire industry" one. No major company was spared, and most were svaged more mercilessly than SJ Games (one example being the mention of the card game "Buy more Sorcery!") ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 18:36:05 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1606 SteelHarbinger@aol.com wrote: > > How do I remove myself from the mailing list? You follow the directions that came in the e-mail you received when you first subscribed to this list, which you saved because you're not a total moron. Or if something happened to it, you use a search engine (perhaps even the one on SJG's site) to find the appropriate page which describes how to subscribe or unsubscribe from the list, which shouldn't be hard to do because you're not a total moron. If you can't do that, you send e-mail to the list admin, but NOT to the entire list, basically asking someone to do it for you, because you're not a total moron. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 19:30:14 -0400 From: "Gregory Gietzen" Subject: Re: IN> What happened? From: David Edelstein > Hmm. Probably falls into the "cruel but not entirely undeserved" > category. Probably also falls into the "White Wolf is still bitter about > GURPS Vampire being better than WoD Vampire" category. The other satires were equally... pointed. Including their examination of "LSD, inc." (which recently merged w/ "Magicians of the Beach," IIR the name correctly). They described this game as one where the designers weren't creative enough to come up with an actual setting, so they just hammered something together from Tolkein and Arthurian lore. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 23:23:54 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: IN> Something silly for Dom fans. This is seriously off-topic, but Dominic fans might like it. http://www.people.virginia.edu/~rwh5a/judgment.htm Reverend Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 21:13:38 -0500 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: IN> Pushing Books (Re: Players and Supplements) > >GURPS > >markets to every player having a copy of whatever Sourcebook the campaign > >is being run in. > I don't think that's true at all. GURPS markets to every player having a > copy of the Basic Set (plus, perhaps, one or both Compendia). I don't > think there's a need for every player in an Egyptian game to have a copy of > GURPS Egypt. Sure, it'd be *nice*, but it's by no means a requirement. Perhaps not specifically marketed but it always seemed that once someone began to run a specific setting every player or darn near every player came in to buy the sourcebook. I would also say that "need" and "want" are two different concepts in marketing. No, you're not trying to convince every GURPS player that they need to buy every supplement in order to play the game, or even that they need to buy the specific supplement to play that setting (only the GM need do that) but what you say through the content of the book and the cover blurbs say that they will/do want to... > >Imagine WoTC > >trying to tell every AD&D player that they had to buy every Module, > >Monsterous Compendium, Sourcebook, whatever for a certain campaign setting > >in order to play it. No-matter if they were player or DM. > TSR tried to do that, and it drove them under. WotC is following a saner > marketing scheme...as is SJG, with both GURPS and IN. Believe it or not, > we *do* think about these things when we're setting print run sizes. Even TSR didn't try to tell players that they needed to buy an adventure module to play the game. I also don't see this as an issue of run size but content. Perhaps SJG doesn't intend for every book to have a built in hook for the player to want(I won't even say need) to buy but darn near every book seems to have info in it that both a player and a GM would need/want. LS being the most gratuitious in this sense. Roles and NPC's in the same book... > >Face it, WW really did change the way a lot of people viewed the manner in > >which a game needed to be supported. Remember Vampire? A supplement came out > >every month for Pete's sake for the first year, and they weren't always $20 > >dollar book either. And for the most part they were well written, mostly > >well laid out, had great art that was consistant, and they never forget who > >thier audience was. > Yes, but Vampire at the time was competing with TSR more than SJG, and TSR > was doing essentially the same thing--one product a month for its main > lines. It drove TSR bankrupt. (That and underpricing their stuff.) > The other thing to realize is, WW had *one* game line at the time, so of > course they could release one thing a month for that sole line. SJG has > two main lines and lots of independent products. I wasn't talking about who WW was competing with, and in fact I don't think that WW was "competing" with anyone that first year. The game took the industry by storm pretty much and surprised themselves as much as everyone else as I recall. It was in the second year that I think they really began to feel thier oats and consciously start to compete. The release schedule and product line showed it. > >That's what consumers want... If the they have to buy another copy then they > >don't feel to bad because they only spent $10-$15 and when the inevitable > >reprint comes it doesn't hurt. > I'm sorry, but that's NOT what the research in the industry indicates. > >From my own reading of mailing lists and Usenet, people who already own > material tend to avoid reprints unless there's substantial new material in > them, and they resent new editions of stuff that they've just recently > bought. Doh!, you're correct and I miswrote myself and should have stated "2nd Editions" rather than reprints. David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 22:25:11 -0500 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: IN> Anti-Munchkin - formerly : Player mistakes > You information , yes - absolutely valuable , and I have saved you email as further reference to better myself as both a Storyteller and a Game Master. Ooooh, I get all tingly when I read stuff like that. Thanks! > However - my problem is not in the Hi-Power situations as you would place it - but really in the crazy hack and slash players that would rather go out and hunt down demons than be involved in the plot > This incident happened the other night : > The Presence of Yves - angels and solemn staring at one of my PC's - > "I'm Jack" pulling out both his guns - and firing them into the air... > I hope you get my problem - > Is there a way to convert the Hack and Slash player into something MORE of a Roleplayer? All the responses to this that I have seen so far boiled down to "give them what they want and let them choke on it" The problem is that most hard-core H/S don't care. Personally I just let the universe continue to wipe them out until they leave the game (and that is generally what happens) it provides agreat deal of amusement for most of the rest of the group, and generally a little headache... That being said, I also have people drive for an hour to play and generally don't have to worry about finding new players or really ticking off my friends (They are *not* H/S) and you may not be similarly blessed. Soooo... One story and then a suggestion. Back in the days of yore when I still GM'd at Cons I would run these four-day long, BYOC, any level any class, marathon events. I got every darn thing you could imagine and I would run 10,15, 20 players through at a time. Basically if you showed up you could play... Imagine the group is sitting in between Time and Space on a big huge floating asteroid that has a free-standing door, negotiating with a huge Dragon who they have been informed is a god of some sort, Good, and they need to get past him in order to continue the adventure after four hours of game play. The group of earnest role-players clustered around the screen is talking with the Good, Noble cousin to a certain platinium hued dragon when when the Dragon asked "Why are you here?" There is much back and forth among the players as to how best answer when I hear float down from the other end of the table "We're here to kick your a--" I raise my hand, asked who said that, the player raises his hand (it was barbarian-type) and repeats the statement. Me "Ok, the Dragon focuses on you and your character explodes." Shock "Don't I get a save?" "No. The Dragon looks at you all again and ask's again 'Why are you here?'" The table was silent for a moment and then the role-players continued as if nothing had happened. Other players at the far end of the table convinced the barbarian-types brother not to attack the Dragon, a cleric ressurected him and the game went on. Everyone had a great time, and everyone got the point. Have the players play your campaign, don't play thiers. Fighting the Dragon served no purpose, was stupid, and did nothing to further the plot. If they do something you don't like and think is deserving of death then just kill them and be done with it. Change the rules... 1- Provide them with characters, *don't* let them make them thier own until they've played through one campaign and know what you expect. 2- Run the entire campaign in Heaven where the Pax Dei is in effect and combat is not allowed except for dueling in the Groves, and then it cannot inflict Soul Hits. If they break the rules say it is choosing evil and have them Fall. Whoops! Time for new character... 3- Empasize that combat is dangerous and to be avoided. *Never* let them win a fight for the first few sessions and have them running constantly from the Game (Look for the Hellhound post a few days ago) and have them totally outclassed in every way. Let them know that combat is for schmo's and generally just gets you a bad case of the deads... 4- Play a game with no need for combat. There has been one instance of combat in Kiara's current IN campaign, and the the little newby 9 Force Seraph of the Sword still has no idea how outclassed he was, he just ran like Forrest Gump... That's in 10 game sessions mind you... And something has been blowing up churches all around Chicago and the National Guard has been activated. If we find it I'm sure that there will be one heck of a fight but the Seraph rolled a 666 and tripped over a very powerful Shedim that we've run into once or twice already. (And were very polite...) The Other David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 23:53:07 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: RE: IN> In Nomine : Cybernetics and Cyberpunkesque Terrorism - At 13:46 -0400 5/2/00, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >I'd say "checking e-mail and bookmarked web sites at least four times >a day, at least thirty minutes apart" or the equivilent... Too Media-ish, for me. Another good one: - Allowing spammers (and other network abusers) to go unpunished - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 00:07:41 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Pushing Books (Re: Players and Supplements) At 14:04 -0400 5/2/00, Emily Dresner wrote: >Those people here who are making it an issue of money and selling have >missed the point completely, and it's probably why In Nomine is dying. Unfortunately, you can't put out something unless there *is* a bottom line, and it's at least a little in the black. Otherwise you're just another fly-by-night hobby publisher. And there have been a lot of those. A good gaming company strikes a balance between the bottom line and fun. In general, I think SJGames has done a good job of this -- I know SJ has published stuff he *knew* wouldn't sell well, just because he wanted to. But he can't afford to make a regular habit of it. The bottom line to the bottom line is that a line that doesn't sell *can't* go on very long. At least, not as a commercial product. Of course, if it's not fun, it won't sell well, either. But the line has recently, as far as can be told, been producing what people have wanted. This is not only good for the bottom line, but it's good for the customers -- they're getting what they want. If they aren't, they won't keep buying, and the line will (deservedly) die. This doesn't mean, of course, that *everyone* gets what they want. Obviously, you aren't. But so it goes.... >While concentrating so hard on the bottom line, no one was having any fun. I don't think that's it at all -- you seem to be assuming everyone thinks the same things are fun as you do. Certainly Elizabeth has been trying to do things she thinks will be fun, as well as worrying about keeping the line going. In fact, she's not particularly in the loop on the "bottom line" stuff. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 00:13:18 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Pushing Books (Re: Players and Supplements) At 17:35 -0400 5/2/00, Galen G. Silversmith wrote: >How large is the next edition going to be? Same page count as the current, >or is it looking to expand? I would expect it to be roughly the same number of pages; most of the likely changes have already gone into the GURPS version, and there's not a lot of new stuff. A sentence here or there for clarification, mostly, or even just a word or two. A few things got pulled into GURPS IN that probably wouldn't need to go into a 2nd ed. IN book, since they're already handled in supplements. They got pulled into GURPS IN because they had enough rules stuff that needed GURPS treatment that it didn't seem appropriate to just point people at the IN supplement. >(Stuff like more on the superiors, better rules clarifications, a longer >skill list, more on artifact creation, could all be used in a new edition) I doubt the additional material would make the book enough more attractive to justify the price increase needed for more pages. Apparently there's a strong dropoff in sales after the price hits about $20; "main" books can go a little higher in price, but more pages still hurts, from what I've heard. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 21:19:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Best Choir for Angel of Comedy (Was: Re: IN> Anti-Munchkin - formerly : Player mistakes) Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 16:11:57 -0400From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Anti-Munchkin - formerly : Player mistakes >* How do you lose all six clones in PARANOIA during >character creation, >I ask you? You think he'd keep his mouth shut after >#4, but noooooo... Ok, two points: 1) That post had me on the floor, laughing. Literally. If you subscribe to Pyramid, crosspost that on .roleplaying so I can give you a Made Morgan (FAW) point properly. 2) Is there already an Angel of Comedy? I suppose that the opposition of Dark Humor might be a problem, but it might be doable. A Creationer would be my best bet, but Choir is a puzzler. Mercurian seems _too_ pat. Hmmm... Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Belly Laughs __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 00:22:26 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Pushing Books (Re: Players and Supplements) At 17:43 -0400 5/2/00, Jonathan B Lotzer wrote: >Then why should we buy this product? What will it offer that we will not already >have? Not really a lot, if you don't mind the page-flipping in the current edition. It wouldn't be so much for the current players, as to make it less unfriendly to newcomers. Not that anyone will complain if old customers wanted the new version, but it wouldn't be the main target for the new edition. > Sorry, but putting it that way doesn't sound so much that different from a >SJG revised edition. That's basically what it would be -- a more user-friendly version of the current core book. Not a "we added 16 pages of new material, so all the old customers should buy the new book" book. Unsurprisingly, that tactic tends to draw a a lot of fire from customers.... Every once in a while, SJGames has done a *drastic* revision for a new edition, but usually because a reprint would wind up repeating a lot of stuff that's now become "core" material in GURPS. But that's been more the exception than the rule. > I was hoping for more mood, possibly some fairly significant >changes in underlying mechanics.. I wouldn't hold my breath on either of those, though it might wind up with a new set of vignettes, as GURPS IN did. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 00:29:46 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Flavortext and Worldview At 18:07 -0400 5/2/00, Perry Lloyd wrote: >>Now, I'll tell you what _I_ slaver and drool for, and that's >>for SJGames to get the _fiction_ license. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. >>Maybe someday. No telling what the asking price is. *sigh* > >That SJGames has to pay to get a fiction license? I thought anybody could >write fiction and try and get it published. You have to purchase a license >to go so?? If it's in a copyrighted world, yes. Try publishing Star Trek fiction without Paramount's blessing.... The In Nomine game universe is a derivative work from Croc's original INS/MV game. Publishing fiction (commercially, not fan-fic) set in that world requires a license, yes. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 21:38:20 -0700 From: "Robert Veneman-Hughes" Subject: IN> Cybertech, pt 1 - Available Cybertech This is the first part of the cybertech section of IN2020 - It has the available sorts of cybertech, game effects, and point costs. The second part has the dangers of cybertech. I am interested in thoughts and comments, especially about play-balance. - -Robert - ------------ ***In Nomine Cyberpunk*** **Cybertechnology** A hallmark of the cyberpunk word is cybertech - bionic limbs, implanted computers, and all the other meldings of man and machine. Here’s how the point costs break down. A note on terms: Most cybernetics alter attributes one way or another. For the purposes of the rules, the terms cybernetic attribute and natural attribute will be used. While the specific differences between a natural attribute will be used below, the general rule is that cybernetic attributes are wholly mechanical - thus, they don’t affect any metaphysical part of the character, like forces, celestial combat, or the like. *Available Cybertech* - -Cybernetic Strength Increases Cybernetic strength increases are typically cybernetic limbs that replace the normal arms or legs of a person, oftentimes making them stronger. Because In Nomine is a relatively rules-light system, distinctions between what limbs are and aren’t cybernetic are cosmetic; having cybernetic strength costs 1 point per level- this could be one cybernetic arm, or an entire cybernetic body. This strength replaces natural strength - so, for eight points, Joe Cyberdeck has a cybernetic strength of 8. Cybernetic strength does not alter body hits or forces; natural strength is used calculate those figures. - -Cybernetic Agility Increases More rare than cyber-strength, artificial increases in the agility are generally a limited replacement of key nerves with artificial material that increases reaction time, though sometimes the agility increase is purely mechanical in form of cybernetic limbs or close-fitting exoskeletal modification. Again, these increases are 1 point per level, and replace the natural attribute just like cybernetic strength. This level of cybernetic nerve modification is generally safe -the real nasty ones are reflex chips, below. - -Cybernetic Sensory Increases Various cyber-senses - artificial eyes, ears, and the like - increase Precision and Perception in a very limited fashion. For 2 points per level, cyber-senses replace Precision and Perception in regards to hand-eye coordination (Ranged Weapons, Throwing, Driving, etc, but not Medicine, Engineering, and the like) and for specific sensory checks, like rolling Perception to notice something corporeal. Cyber-senses give no bonuses to anything celestial or ethereal - so no bonuses in ethereal or celestial combat. - -Onboard Computer Having a computer in your head costs one point. In and of itself, it does nothing more than act as a fancy calculator, but it has the space for five chips. In most cases, chips are interchangeable, but there are exceptions. - -Onboard Cyberdeck If your onboard computer can act as a cyberdeck, allowing full connection to the Net, it eats up chips. A poor cyberdeck (-1 to all rolls when netrunning) uses two chip slots. An average cyberdeck (0 to all rolls when netrunning) uses three chip slots. These chip slots are permanently devoted to the cyberdeck. All onboard cyberdecks cost one point. - -Interface Jack A port that can be connected to the outside costs one point and permanently uses one slot. - -Skill Chips Skill Chips provide a +2 bonus to any specific Knowledge skill. (Medicine, Engineering, Chemistry, Electronics, Languages, and Chemistry also can gain such a bonus) They cost one point apiece. - -Combat Chip Combat Chips are terrible things. An individual with a combat chip ignores pain; he keeps fighting until he is dead. Combat chips also provide a +1 bonus to the check digit of all corporeal combat rolls per level of the chip; while the chip is active, they also grant the Berserk discord at a level equal to the chip. Combat chips are not generally left continuously on; instead, they can be activated and deactivated at will. Upon activation, however, the user must roll three dice - If all dice are below the level of the chip, the user permanently gains a level of Discord. (The GM chooses a discord appropriate to the situation; common discords include Berserk, Angry, Murderous, and Paranoia.) Combat chips cost two points per level. Reflex chips are illegal, though some soldiers receive them. - -Reflex Chips Reflex Chips decrease the rate at which the user sees the world, allowing them to move and react incredibly quickly. In game terms, reflex chips act like the Art of Combat attunement, allowing the user the act more than once per round. The user can act each round a number of times equal to the level of the chip. The chip’s level can be no more than half the user’s agility, whether that is natural or cybernetic. Each round the reflex chip is used, the user must roll three dice, as above with the Combat Chip. If the check is failed, the user permanently gains a level of discord; chosen by the GM. Reflex chips are highly illegal. They cost three point per level. - -Armored Exoskeleton An armored exoskeleton that provides Protection costs one point per level of Protection. Up to two levels of Protection can be concealed to eyesight; levels past that are obvious to cursory examination. A detailed search will always reveal the presence of an armored exoskeleton. - -Built-in Weapons Built-in weapons, regardless of type, cost one point per weapon. Reasonable size limitations apply to the weapons. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 21:38:23 -0700 From: "Robert Veneman-Hughes" Subject: IN> Cybetech, pt 2 - Dangers of Cybertech Ladies and gentlemen, here is part 2. Comments and critiscm, please. - -Robert - -------------- **The Dangers of Cybertech** Cybertech doesn’t come easy, by any means. In addition to the neurological problems Reflex and Combat chips can cause you, there are some social and metaphysical issues involved in using cybertechnology. It’s not that having cybertech is a stigma - except in a few rare occasions, like among certain members of the elite or to the Luddite anti-technology groups - but rather that cybertech is expensive, and it is demand. Walking alone through the slums with a cybernetic arm is a good way to get set on by roving gangs employed by shady cyber-resellers. If you are lucky, you’ll wake up bleeding and short an arm. More likely, you won’t wake up at all. There is also the possibility of having your tech go bad on you and malfunction, depriving you of critical abilities at an important time. Still, most people feel these are minor prices to pay for the added abilities of cybertechnology. Of course, your average Joe doesn’t know that there are angels and demons walking the streets. Angels of Jean give those loaded up on cybertechnology quite a headache. Kyriotates can possess cybertech and cause all sorts of havoc, and any angel with the Remote Control attunement can also cause real problems for the cybered-up individual. Users can resist the Kyriotate with a Will roll and Remote Control with a Will roll +2. There are more inimical effects in on the cyborg’s soul, however. Cybertechnology tends to eat essence, so that each day at noon a user with any cybertech regains essence only 50% of the time. Curiously, this isn’t a problem if the user is in the Net at the time. Anyone who can spend essence voluntarily doesn’t have to deal with this problem; they are fully capable of denying essence to the cybertech. However, the presence of cybertechnology on the symphonically aware person’s body makes them a little symphonically deaf. For every five points of cybertechnology a user has (rounded up), all disturbances are reduced in power by one point of disturbance. It gets one step worse for celestials. Celestials who have cybertech receive a minus to their rolls to enter celestial form as they try and incorporate the cybertechnology; this penalty is minus one for every ten points of cybertech the celestial has, rounded up. This is in addition to the penalty imposed upon hearing disturbance, so especially tanked-up celestials have found themselves basically stranded on earth, cut off from the Symphony. Rumors exist that this has driven at least one angel to Falling. Dominic, understandably, is less than happy with excessive cybertech usage. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 23:55:11 -0500 From: Jonathan B Lotzer Subject: IN> Pyramid Coverage of IN I've been working on a C++ project the last couple of hours, but have thought of several ideas for how to increase coverage. Some of those ideas would include more con conversage, posters for stores/individuals, more connection with church groups. On the last, I've had the (mis)fortune to read a couple of the old 'How to Change RPGS from the Devil's Tool to a Holy Lesson' pamplets, and there are elements that could be used. BUT, the major point that I wanted to make right now...IN coverage in Pyramid. I did a search for topics..finding only 25 articles over a 6 year period. If I figured it out correctly in Excel, that came to around 85 days between articles..with as much as over an entire year between postings. I'm not entirely sure if these findings are correct..but they would seem to suggest that it just isn't a big topic for Pyramid. Perhaps there could be more interest if there were more articles? Another idea that I've been playing with: I know that I've asked this question before, but why are we on a mailing list rather than a usenet list? Having a usenet group would provide greater flexibility and coverage of the potential public. I think that it could be a real attractor if A) The casual reader didn't have to read through every single topic B) I'll admit it, I'm dreading going off for vacation for two weeks at the end of Summer. I was away from my computer for a weekend and had over 200 posts...how many more will build up over a two week period? This is a very active list, at least in my limited experience. C) Lots of cool official type people are involved in this list. I remember that it was a major turnon on both here and alt.games.whitewolf that LE's and writers were actively involved and really gave a damn about those that chose to have a voice in their games. D) I know that I've said wow..I'd really like to use that in my campaign several times on both this and the WW newsgroup. If we move away from this mailing list, it could be possible to post more of those ideas without offending the powers that be. If people see ideas that they think are cool, they might be more interested in picking up books, or at least deeper investigation. E) On the downside, it would also make it more available to the average person. All too often, on the WW newsgroup, there seems to be a 'all of the freedoms, none of the responsiblities' mentality. I've seen it a few times on here, and might even be guilty of saying things too quickly and too harshly, so it might not get worse. BTW, to any people that feel that I have been rude or nasty to them, a heart felt apology. Hopefully, between these two ideas there might be a gem of advice. Thanks for your time, Jonathan B Lotzer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 00:59:41 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: IN> Dr. Angel and Mr. Habb Falling and Redemption. Redemption and Falling. You think Vapula hasn't been looking into this? If you could *control* either of these, the War would be more or less over. (Free Will? An illusion. An interestingly _complex_ illusion, but in the end it's all reactions. Once our model is sufficiently nuanced...) Okay, so far the results haven't been spectacular. Attempts to induce Falling (in captive angels) have simply resulted in the obliteration of the angel. Attempts to induce redemption in demons... why, no, good officers of the Game, of course not. What a silly idea! [presses button] Certainly you can look around my laboratory. Just ignore that puddle in the corner. Smell? No, I don't smell anything. - -- But now there's been one partial breakthrough. Vap has managed to induce something like severe Multiple Personality Disorder in a Habbalite. And for a while -- up to a day or so -- the Habbbie can pass as an Elohite. Sort of. The "good" personality believes it's an angel... an *outcast* angel. It's rather heavily discordant, but it can pass as an Elohite in almost every regard, even in Celestial form. It _thinks_ it still has the Elohite resonance; what actually happens is that it does its best to guess the subject's emotional state, then uses the Habbalite resonance to induce it. If it doesn't work, it shrugs and figures that its resonance must be malfunctioning from all the Dissonance it carries as a poor outcast... The "angel" will seem to be _pathetic_; it desperately wants to get back into Heaven's favor, and will approach PCs and ask for help. Seraphs will register it as sincere; Mals will pick up on the honor and dishonor only of the "angel" persona. Unfortunately, the persona is only a scrim over the underlying Habbalite; it must make a Will roll every two hours or flip back. And the Habbalite persona is severely insane even by Habbalite standards; Vapula's treatment has rendered it both discordant and violently malicious... it believes that it must serve God by destroying His weakest servants, but it loathes its "good" persona. It doesn't resemble the "good" persona one bit, though; looks different in celestial form, and uses a different vessel. And it retains all of its memories. And it's still quite intelligent and cunning. The creature is racking up Discord like nobody's business, and it probably won't be around for long; other demons dislike and distrust it, and its Divine Interventions are _very, very_ bad for it... someone upstairs really doesn't like this thing. But while it's around, it could do a lot of damage to a group of angelic PCs... Thoughts? Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 22:30:20 PDT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Pushing Books (Re: Players and Supplements) >I wouldn't hold my breath on either of those, though it might wind up with >a new set of vignettes, as GURPS IN did. > > But why? The current ones are great. I didn't really understand the need to put new vignettes into GURPS: IN in any case. jo ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 01:43:12 -0400 From: "Aaron Medwin" Subject: Re: Best Choir for Angel of Comedy (Was: Re: IN> Anti-Munchkin - formerly : Player mistakes) From: Maurice Lane > 2) Is there already an Angel of Comedy? I suppose > that the opposition of Dark Humor might be a problem, > but it might be doable. A Creationer would be my best > bet, but Choir is a puzzler. Mercurian seems _too_ > pat. > Hmmm... In my campaign, the Seraphim Council decided to have the word go to the only Malakite(yes, a Creationer) who was testing. Something about embodying the Word through irony. :) > Morgan (FAW) > Kyriotate of Destiny > Petitioner for the Word of Belly Laughs - -Aaron Medwin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 02:16:50 -0500 From: "Tafka J." Subject: Re: IN> Christian Mods At 11:21 AM -0400 05/02/00, Doctor TOC wrote: >Agreed. One of the things that turns me off a by-the-book campaign is >the political aspect; smacks a little too much of the World of Darkness >to me. Or Amber DRPG. . . Or any _GOOD_ Story-based game. Politics is what drives the story. If you don't have internal strife, then all you have is a bunch of fluffy-bunny Angels that love each other to little-itty bits. *ahem* I'm not trying to knock anyone, really. It's just maybe I find that when you _have_ no conflict, the story lacks something in quantity. (Yes, fighting against Hell, can be considered conflict, but then again it's a little one sided really. What _if_ Lucifer is right? This is a game of infinite possibility after all.) Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = tafkaj@thrifty.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur ------------------------------ Date: 3 May 2000 07:22:08 -0000 From: "Chris Rose" Subject: Re: IN> Pushing Books Perhaps the most relevant question ... How many copies are in the reprint print run ? If It's 8 million copies, we're stuck with 1st ed for a while longer. If it was a couple of hundred, then they should be gone relatively soon .. Official people ? Chris - -------- Chris Rose ofanite@gospeedgo.com Angel of Phone Technical Support Ofanite of Lightning ________________________________________________________________ Get Free Email, Anime News, and The Best Prices at http://AnimeNation.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 09:52:25 +0100 From: "Laurent" Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1606 David Edelstein wrote: <<< You follow the directions that came in the e-mail you received when you first subscribed to this list, which you saved because you're not a total moron. (...) >>> Now THAT is an objective and constructive remark. And most of all, it's useful. I'm being sarcastic, in case you didn't notice... this kind of email shouldn't be sent to the entire list though, I agree. Here's how you do it. Send the following command in email to : unsubscribe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 07:06:46 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Pushing Books At 7:22 AM +0000 5/3/00, Chris Rose wrote: > > >Perhaps the most relevant question ... (Amen.) >How many copies are in the reprint print run ? I don't know for sure. I can _GUESS_ that it is between 2500 and 5000. I _THINK_ I remember a web page saying there were 15000-20000 of the original main book printed (that number including the hardcovers). Those took what, three years to sell out? So even a reprint of 5000 would about a year...? Note the high degree of uncertainty in those numbers. If I'm wrong -- so it goes. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 07:02:32 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Pushing Books (Re: Players and Supplements) At 10:30 PM -0700 5/2/00, Jo Hart wrote: >>I wouldn't hold my breath on either of those, though it might wind up with >>a new set of vignettes, as GURPS IN did. > >But why? The current ones are great. Reasons why the vignettes _might_ be changed or replaced... * Original vignette(s) didn't reflect current canon correctly. [Remember, the blessed thing's been through more than one major revision -- _how_ many Choirs has Blandine been cast as? Or was that Dominic, who was 2 different Choirs in the 2 older playtest drafts I found?] * Original vignette(s) too long to be kept along with revised rules. * SJ decides he doesn't like a particular interpretation anymore (which is really the first reason with different nuances). * I/SJ think of something we like _better_. > I didn't really understand the need to >put new vignettes into GURPS: IN in any case. Space reasons in some cases, flow in others, interpretation in yet others, style in others elsewhere. Are they _bad_ vignettes? - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1609 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.