From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue May 9 05:44:48 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA12897 for ; Tue, 9 May 2000 05:44:48 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id FAA28207 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 9 May 2000 05:42:26 -0500 Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 05:42:26 -0500 Message-Id: <200005091042.FAA28207@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1616 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, May 9 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1616 In this digest: Re: IN> Pushing Books (Re: Players and Supplements) Re: IN> Pushing Books (Re: Players and Supplements) Re: IN> Jophiel, Archangel of Temperance Re: IN> Pushing Books (Re: Players and Supplements) Re: IN> Pushing Books (Re: Players and Supplements) Re: IN> Re: Best Choir for Angel of Comedy Re: IN> Re: Best Choir for Angel of Comedy Re: IN> What happened? Re: IN> Re: Best Choir for Angel of Comedy IN> New angelic superior. Re: IN> New angelic superior. IN> Followup to New supplements Re: IN> Followup to New supplements Re: IN> Followup to New supplements Re: IN> Followup to New supplements Re: IN> Followup to New supplements IN> New Heretic Superior (Yup, another one) Re: IN> GMG break Re: IN> Followup to New supplements Re: IN> Followup to New supplements Re: IN> New Heretic Superior (Yup, another one) IN> Cool Lilith Quote Re: IN> Re: Best Choir for Angel of Comedy Re: IN> Re: Best Choir for Angel of Comedy Re: IN> Followup to New supplements Re: IN> Followup to New supplements Re: IN> Re: Best Choir for Angel of Comedy Re: IN> New Heretic Superior (Yup, another one) Re: IN> New Heretic Superior (Yup, another one) Re: IN> New Heretic Superior (Yup, another one) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 11:07:34 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Pushing Books (Re: Players and Supplements) At 6:40 AM -0700 5/8/00, Casca wrote: >On Mon, 08 May 2000, "Liam Astley" wrote: >Speaking as a writer, yes, I can practically guarantee that there would be some level of hurt feelings. But Derek is a paid employee of SJG, and if Evil Stevie wants to change the game, then he can. Case closed. Actually, no, Derek is not a paid employee. However, far more importantly, IN is/was _work for hire_. This means that SJGames owns it and can do wht they please iwth it. (And if you can't deal with that as an author... stay out of the kitchen. I had to give up my firstborn for GURPS IOU, and man, was that a shock, even knowing what work-for-hire meant... It does get easier.) (Since it was part of the In Nomine project, and I've no reason to believe otherwise, it's unlikely to be _not_ WFH. None of the other vignettes are not WFH, to my knowledge. And I think SJ would have told me if they weren't WFH... O:> ) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 11:10:33 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Pushing Books (Re: Players and Supplements) At 11:07 AM -0400 5/8/00, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >Actually, no, Derek is not a paid employee. However, far more >importantly, IN is/was _work for hire_. This means that SJGames >owns it and can do wht they please iwth it. (And if you can't >deal with that as an author... stay out of the kitchen. I had >to give up my firstborn for GURPS IOU, and man, was that a shock, >even knowing what work-for-hire meant... It does get easier.) Why does this put me in mind of the Theodore Sturgeon line on writing? "Writing is the simplest thing in the world -- just sit in front of a typewriter and open a vein..." - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 11:21:22 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Jophiel, Archangel of Temperance Douglas Muir wrote: > > I like her. Thanks. Temperance is a very necessary virtue, but it's a hard sell. >>The Higher Common Sense: > I *like* this one. Thanks again. The name comes from the novel "Cold Comfort Farm," origin of Flora Post, Ethereal Servant of Temperance. In the novel, she is an intelligent, not to say cunning, and entirely normal young woman who sets herself the task of curing all the melodrama her relatives are inflicting on themselves at the family farm in Sussex. "The Higher Common Sense" is a book she has read and uses to guide her strategy. I think the title is a parody of "the Higher Thought," which was a notoriously rarified meditation movement of the 1920s, when the book was written. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 19:25:22 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> Pushing Books (Re: Players and Supplements) From: Robert Veneman-Hughes > > She uses a song to knock her former servant across an alley; it is dissonant > for Mercurians to do violence of any kind towards a human. > fair enough then :) to be honest it's been a while since i read the vignettes (since i got the book, basically). i remembered her being a pain in the arse but not particularly violent (at least, physically violent). but i guess if a mercurian sent someone flying with a song IMC i'd give them dissonance liam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 19:37:18 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> Pushing Books (Re: Players and Supplements) From: Casca > But this isn't Derek's game. It's Steve Jackson's game, and Derek merely the writer. > Speaking as a writer, yes, I can practically guarantee that there would be some level of hurt feelings. But Derek is a paid employee of SJG, and if Evil Stevie wants to change the game, then he can. Case closed. well, i realised as much, i was just giving my quite-possibly-misguided opinion, for what it's worth. there just seems to me to be a moral difference between a game that someone's written, which obviously may need altering for needs of rules problems and stuff, and actual fiction, which is always going to be a matter of subjective taste. i realise this is what editors do, but surely (in theory) they make suggestions (or demands) to the writer during the process of writing, rather than a few years after the story's been published? From: Caias Brian Ward > That's the nature of Work For Hire. It's not yours anymore. Granted, > editors learn that if you jerk the writers around too much, they go and stop > working for you. But it's part of the package. i see what you mean, and i'm certainly not disparaging an editor's right to, well, edit. i guess it just seems a bit odd to take a story someone's written and say "well, i like the story, but i don't like the central character, so i'm going to change them", which seemed to be what some people were suggesting. if they're that bad, why not get pearcy or someone else to write some new ones? (though i realise that's more in the realms of a 2nd edition) i think my main problem with the vignettes as they stand isn't that the angel character is an SOB, it's that the story isn't told through her point of view, it's told through the human's, and considering that it's very unlikely that anyone will actually play a human in the game it seems like a bit of a wasted opportunity liam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 19:39:41 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Best Choir for Angel of Comedy From: Earl Wajenberg > I was going to recommend a Malakite or a Seraph, on the grounds > that a, say, Seraph of Comedy is already a funny idea. puts me in mind of those people who say "it's funny, because it's *true*!" the angel of observational comedy? i have this image of a deadpan seraph still slightly bemused by the humour he's able to cause in others liam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 13:49:01 -0500 From: Jonathan B Lotzer Subject: Re: IN> Re: Best Choir for Angel of Comedy Why do I have a picture of Seinfeld with a huge pair of angel's wings going through my head? Along with his little Reliever pal Jason Alexander? Liam Astley wrote: > From: Earl Wajenberg > > I was going to recommend a Malakite or a Seraph, on the grounds > > that a, say, Seraph of Comedy is already a funny idea. > > puts me in mind of those people who say "it's funny, because it's *true*!" > the angel of observational comedy? i have this image of a deadpan seraph > still slightly bemused by the humour he's able to cause in others > > liam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 13:53:47 -0500 From: Matt Trent Subject: Re: IN> What happened? Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > Probably things like: > * vignettes Yipppie! > * more detail on Malakim and "evil honor" humans IMC there isn't an evil human that isn't Hellsworn. Cruel yes Evil no. > * Orphans Defiantly useful. Especially since I've got a itch to play around with Onaes > * Grigori I know that I was personally very disappointed to not see any info at all about the Grigori in the APG. > * Heavenly Choirs Ya mean the ones that never go corporeal side? sure. why not? > * Inventing a minor Choir As in a How To section? That would defiantly be very cool. Might be a nice way to sneak another new one in as well... as an example of course. Matthew Trent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 14:53:27 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: Best Choir for Angel of Comedy At 1:49 PM -0500 5/8/00, Jonathan B Lotzer wrote: >Why do I have a picture of Seinfeld with a huge pair of angel's wings going >through my head? Along with his little Reliever pal Jason Alexander? Well, maybe not *angel's* Wings. At least, not the Seinfeld version of Jerry Seinfeld. Remember, the basic theme is Selfless versus Selfish, and that foursome is a clear cut Impudite, Lilim, Calabite and Djinn.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 00:06:57 +0100 From: "mink" Subject: IN> New angelic superior. }:) hi all, i never put stuff in to the digest before. i dont know really how to but im gonna give it a shot. i hope this works (:{ I got to thinking a while back about angels and words, this one came up in a game i ran when i first got in nomine. i hope you like it. please feel free to critisise it in any way possible. through the critisism i hope to write better stuff. BARSABEL Angel of the Arcane Cherubim Friend of Sages {only ever used as an npc, so i never done stats for her} {{this angelic npc came out because a player wished to play an angelic 'occultist' but found none of the standard superiors sutable to her tastes. i hope you enjoy her, i've not seen any other angel for this word or any words that are similar. all appoloigies if it has been done before. perhaps some one could do a demon counter part based on her, with the word of 'occultism' or similar.}} Choir Attunements Seraphim: Gain an additional +1 bonus to the check digit of all songs of Projection. Cherubim: Gain an additional +1 bonus to the check digit of all songs of Attraction. Ofanim: Gain an additional -1 bonus to the check digit for Disturbance only, for all songs of motion. Elohim: Gain an additional +1 bonus to the check digit of all songs of Harmony. Malakim: Gain an additional +2 bonus to the check digit of the Corporeal song of Entropy. Kyriotates: Gains an additional level (at cha gen) to all songs of Form, however the song of possesion can not be initially taken at cha gen. Mercurians: Gain an additional +1 bonus to the check digits of the Corporeal songs of Charm, Attraction and Tongues. Servitor Attunements Cantrips: The angel spends a point of essence between 6am and 9am, once that is done they gain any one song at level one. They gain the song only in one sphere (corporeal/celestial/etherial). The effects last for 24 hours only. High Magic: By spending extra time to sing a song the target number is modified. 1 extra round: +1 bonus 3 extra rounds: +2 bonus 1 extra minute: +3 bonus 5 extra minutes: +4 bonus 30 minutes: +5 bonus Distinctions Vassal of the Acolyte: The angel gains a unique insight to the structure of the Symphony, they can locate any Disturbances,Tethers and Artifacts by spending 5 Minutes in a meditational trance and then passing a test with their celestial forces +1 as the target number. A sucess determines the degree of power and general direction. A failure causes them Soul hits equal to the check digit. Friend of the Magi: By this stage an angel has total mastery of their own disturbance in the Symphony. The charecter causes less disturbance for any manifestations of 'divine' ability. The charecters Celestial Forces are subtracted from any disturbance generated. Master of the Wards: This distinction enables an angel to ward an area from any malevolent behavior. The area affected is equal to the angels corporeal forces in meters in diameter. No offensive action can be taken against those inside the warded area. Also, no Demon or Soldier of Hell may approach the warded area unless they pass a contested will power test aginst the invoker of the ward. The warding effect is negated once anyone inside take an offensive action. To use the ability the charecter must pass a Willpower test. Failure indicates that the ward was not invoked properly and they may not attempt it again for hours equal to the check digit of the failure. Relations Allied: Yves, Eli, Novalis and Blandine. Associated: David. Hostile: Dominic, Laurance. Basic Rites Spending at least 2 hours pouring over old texts of 'arcane' nature. (This includes pamphlets on new age mysticism to listening to tales of the indian elders/shamens). Resting/sleeping in a Holy Tether for at least 8 hours. Chance of Invocation Base chance: 3 Modifiers +1 a Talisman of power level 1-3 +1 on a Layline +2 in a sacred site (churches do not count for this) +2 4 hours in medtative trance in a hand drawn circle +2 within an hour of spending at least $100 on newage/mystical books or items +3 a Talisman of power level 4-6 +3 in a Tether linked to Yves library or Novalis's Garden History of Barsabel Ever since mankind has had idols to worship they have also practiced the arcane ways, from the american indian shamens to the druids in england to the spiritualists who conjour the dead to give messages from the beyond to living relatives. One angel who noticed the increasing trend in magic over relegion worked for Yves. Barsabel studied for many centuries the ways that the humans perfomed their own 'songs' and reweaved the symphony to acheive effects that were more than natural. She took her findings to Yves who told her that he knew such would come about one day and mentioned that Eli may have a hand in its doing. Barsabel went to Eli, asked why the humans are able to sing the symphony, albeit weakly, and acheive the results they do. Eli smiled and said that the humans are a part of the symphony and they are merely finding themselves and expressing what they find. Barsabel spent many years on earth learning from each culture as it achieved the ability to sing in the symphony, then after many centuries she went to Yves and told him yet more of what she had discovered. Yves asked if she would like to be a guiding hand to those on earth who study the arts arcane. not realising that Yves was offering her a word for her duties and discoveries, Barsabel asked to think on it for a while, so that she may better understand the humans and the symphony. After many years she accepted and only after another few centuries was she gifted with the word 'Magic'. Many centuries passed, and she found that through relegion she could reach the truly enlightened ones who would write of the 'supernatural'. Still more time passed and she found that her word was waning, she asked Eli and Novalis, with whom she had become fast friends with to petition Yves to change the word she was given. This caused uproar in heaven, Dominic was all for striping Barsabel of her forces because magic was taking many people away from GOD, Uriel was also against the change, for he was against the concept of magic for similar reasons as Dominic. The arguement waged back and forth for a long time but eventually Barsabel was given a new word that was to have related to her original word. She chose the word 'Arcane' because to her magic was not the best of words, many dark deeds were done in the name of magic, but arcane she reasoned meant long studying and it also meant that many of the 'forgotten gods' would survive, but all prayers offered up to the false gods would go via her to the GOD above, thus bringing relegion and the arcane closer. By this time modern society as we know it had through its socialogical upheavals, including the Inquisition, the Knights Templar and into the near modern refuge of books of philisophy and the resurgance of occultism and spiritualism and the arcane. Barsabel spent much time with Novalis and Eli in the Marches, helping Blandine fill peoples dreams with strange fantasy worlds populated with many strange peoples and full of mythical creatues and magical places. Also by this time Uriel had ascended and Laurance had taken his place, Laurance has as much disdain for Barsabel as did his former superior did. With each fantasy filled dream that was dreamt and each book written she gained a large amount of power and now considered as a power in her own right to equal many of the younger Archangels. Barsabel still enjoys a great deal of power, she knows that science is slowly replacing peoples need for fantasy, but at each persons heart lies the dreams of being able to fly in the form of a bird, or to run with the wolves or to see with magical x-ray vision and she thinks that science will only compliment her word. Each person wants a super fast computer to play the latest game where the player is the hero of a land filled with many strange creatures and many magical powers. Appearance On earth Barsabel likes to appear as a young woman in her early twenties, wearing flowing dresses often in red and purple, with many necklaces and a few new age items such as tarot cards, rune stones and other similar items. Her hair is always dark red in colour, her eyes are a hauntingly beautiful green, her skin is also pale, when ever she speaks it is with a slight Irish accent, she comments how she had ancestors in the celtic home lands. When she does appear she only causes 1 point of disturbance. She often takes the name of Barbara Sable, and the role of a new age author of some popularity. Her other vessel is that of an old man with greying red hair and green eyes. he appears to be in his eighties but is a sprightly old chap who is happy to go to the local school and tell the little children about all the worlds of fantasy and the magical powers they have. When he appears in this form he takes the name of Harris Bell. {{well thats it, i like her, i hope you all do to.}} }:) Garothialmes, Demon of Damnation, Shedite who just wants to have a lil fun.(:{ sandsnick@hotmail.com icq 60645575 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 18:29:49 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> New angelic superior. > BARSABEL > Angel of the Arcane > Cherubim Friend of Sages > > {only ever used as an npc, so i never done stats for her} If she is just a Word-bound Servitor and not an Archangel, she wouldn't have Choir Attunements or Distinctions. > perhaps > some one could do a demon counter part based on her, with the word of > 'occultism' or similar.}} There is a Demon of Sorcery in the Corporeal Player's Guide. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 10:17:41 +1000 From: "David Streeter" Subject: IN> Followup to New supplements First, a mea culpa - OK, OK the CPG was mainly new material, not a re-hash as I said. What I was complaining about was the it was not a new SUBJECT. Corporeals had been dealt with in a previous supplement. The main redeeming feature of the CPG for me was the line "In Nomine is game about angels and demons, but the War is about humans". This made it worth the cover price for me. And to re-iterate a plea - if an EPG is planned, I would be MUCH happier buying it if it includes an adventure based on the Purity Crusade, and has a write-up of the Grigori. A write-up of Uriel would be good, too (but unprecedented - no lost superiors have been written up officially yet IIRC). Since this would mean that it would not be totally a PLAYER'S guide, perhaps the EPG could be the last half of the book. (I personally love those books with two front covers and half the insides upside down). Maybe the covers could be a whole bunch of Angels of Purity on one side, with a whole bunch of ethereals on the other, forming a large fold-out picture. Then again, maybe I'm dreaming :-) SurturZ Habbalite of Factions, Angel of Constructive Criticism ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 19:32:48 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Followup to New supplements David Streeter wrote: > And to re-iterate a plea - if an EPG is planned, Planned and written, so pleas for anything that would constitute a major shift in focus and extensive rewrite are probably to no avail at this point. > I would be MUCH happier> buying it if it includes an adventure based on the Purity Crusade, and has a > write-up of the Grigori. Sorry. > A write-up of Uriel would be good, too I wanted to include that. They said no. Sorry. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 18:15:19 -0700 From: Ryan Elias Subject: Re: IN> Followup to New supplements > A write-up of Uriel would be good, too (but > unprecedented - no lost superiors have been written up officially yet IIRC). You recall correctly ^_^ The closest thing to dead Superiors IN has hit so far are un-fallen Demon Princes (and fallen Archangels in Superiors 1), and even those were edited out. (I have played around with the idea of submitting a proposal for a book of lost Superiors, and still may if I find the time... I'm hesitant as well because I can think of at least three people I'd rather see write the book than myself. I'm also not at all certain that a proposal for such a book from anyone would be accepted at all. It's a nice idea, though) Cheers, -Ryan "You used to be so amused, At Napolean in rags and the language that he used, Go to him now, he calls you, you can't refuse When you ain't got nothing, you've got nothing to lose" -Bob Dylan, Like A Rolling Stone ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 19:00:33 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Followup to New supplements I dunno I liked the CPG, the topic wasn't covered very well previously. There are numerous issues for ethereals that NEED to be addresed and hopefuly they are addresed in the EPG (maybe David could tell us if the mechanics of how ethereals die from lack of essence, etc are indeed in the EPG). About purity crusade stuff there should be information on how the crusade changed the ethereal landscape and lifestyle. But a full acount of the crusade itself really doesn't belong in a players guide. However the double cover fold out idea would be really cool, and those books are neat. Timothy, Angel of Rambling Ofanite of Creation ArchRival of Mathus My international broadcasting agency: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 22:29:41 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Followup to New supplements On Tue, 9 May 2000, David Streeter wrote: > And to re-iterate a plea - if an EPG is planned, I would be MUCH happier > buying it if it includes an adventure based on the Purity Crusade, and has a > write-up of the Grigori. The Grigori??? That doesn't make sense. They had nothing to do with the Ethereal Plane. Maybe a writeup on the Tsaydim (sp?)... actually, I'd almost expect a few pages about them. > A write-up of Uriel would be good, too (but > unprecedented - no lost superiors have been written up officially yet IIRC). > Since this would mean that it would not be totally a PLAYER'S guide, perhaps > the EPG could be the last half of the book. (I personally love those books > with two front covers and half the insides upside down). I doubt that... it'll no doubt be hard enough just trying to fit in all the Ethereal info! They're gonna NEED all 128 pages just for the concept; you can't cram an entire plane of existence into 60-70 pages. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! GET SOME SLACK, CREATE SOME SLACK, OR DIE THESE ARE YOUR *ONLY* CHOICES -- St. Bubba ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 20:51:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> New Heretic Superior (Yup, another one) Gee, it's that time again, huh? Why yes, it's time for another round in my endless quest to write non-profitable material! This one is about Novalis, actually, and no, I didn't make her Fall. She's too cool to make fall. So, what have I done? Check out http://www.familyshoebox.com/family/Oops for the gruesome details. She's on page two of the In Nomine stuff. I need a better web page server. Now, about now I usually do my "any feedback is appreciated" spiel. This time, I _really_ need it. I did NOT like writing this one. It is not Bright at all. I think that it works, but I found it highly distasteful. Right now, I could use somebody telling me whether or not what I did to my favorite Archangel seems a logical extension to the previous stuff. Not whether or not it was a nasty thing to do to a nice girl: I already know it was. Just whether it was valid, artistically speaking. Thanks for reading! Morgan, FAW Kyriotate of Destiny* Petitioner for the Word of Reluctant Creativity *Yeah, I know I said I like Novalis best. It's just that Yves Kyrio attunement is _so_ cool... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 21:21:02 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> GMG break >By the way, if any of you don't have the Game Master's Guide, buy it now. >Right this minute if humanly possible. No rules, no flavor text, 100% >ideas >for gaming. Now that's how I like my supplements. > >Later > >Daedalus I couldn't agree with you more, Daed. I was returning from an out of state trip today and visited a gaming store I *in*frequent. they had a copy of the GMG. Holy cow, although hesitant to by it because I didn't have much ca$h, I was persuaded by my girlfriend (a fellow gamer, praise the gods) to let her charge it. And when I finally got a chance to look through it more seriously, well, damn, talk about a whole lot of good ideas to think about. :) I *especially* like that there's a whole lot of "alternates", suggestions for different ways of doing things. Wowee. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/6045/index.html "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 00:42:39 -0400 From: "Aaron Medwin" Subject: Re: IN> Followup to New supplements From: Rev. Pee Kitty > On Tue, 9 May 2000, David Streeter wrote: > > > And to re-iterate a plea - if an EPG is planned, I would be MUCH happier > > buying it if it includes an adventure based on the Purity Crusade, and has a > > write-up of the Grigori. > > The Grigori??? That doesn't make sense. They had nothing to do with the > Ethereal Plane. Maybe a writeup on the Tsaydim (sp?)... actually, I'd > almost expect a few pages about them. Just what are the Tsayadim, anyway? There are quite a few references to them as former servitors of Purity, but are they a Choir of their own(a minor one, like the Menunim), or are they just a group of Outcast angels? > Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian - -Aaron Medwin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 01:01:42 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Followup to New supplements >From: Rev. Pee Kitty >Just what are the Tsayadim, anyway? There are quite a few references to them >as former servitors of Purity, but are they a Choir of their own(a minor >one, like the Menunim), or are they just a group of Outcast angels? The latter. Former servitors of Uriel who have refused to give up his fight. All the major choirs are included among them. They're all outcast, but none have (yet) fallen, ever. There aren't many Tsayadim left, but the ones that have managed to survive this long are very cunning and very dangerous. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 00:40:57 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> New Heretic Superior (Yup, another one) From: "Maurice Lane" > > I think that it works, but I found it highly > distasteful. Right now, I could use somebody telling > me whether or not what I did to my favorite Archangel > seems a logical extension to the previous stuff. Not > whether or not it was a nasty thing to do to a nice > girl: I already know it was. Just whether it was > valid, artistically speaking. It was. The section on her transition was gripping, if repellant, reading. It was a perfect reason for her to undergo the change she suffered, and covered the repercussions excellently. Dominic's reaction was bloody PERFECT. Prodigal Calabite of Traffic Demon of Calling Into Tech Support Without The Product Nearby ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 03:43:03 -0500 From: Jonathan B Lotzer Subject: IN> Cool Lilith Quote Found a really cool quote in Barlowe's Inferno (a art book) Lilith, I believe, is the victim of biblical character assassination. In an era when there was a growing shift from matriarchal to patriarchal religions, Lilith went from being something of a Mother Goddess symbol to a discredited harlot-demon in an alarmingly short period of time. Created, supposedly, at the same time as Adam, she had none of the subservience later found in Eve. She was sexually aggressive, independent and strong-willed, characteristics not tolerable in the minds of those men reshaping the newer religions, and so, for her "faults", she was cast into the Pit and consigned to the role of Evil's consort. She was then given the feet of a predatory bird and ascribed the habit of spiriting off babies in the night. Lilith appears in pilgrimage in an aspect of unlikely purity and sexuality. This is pure iconoclasm on my part, but I have a problem dealing with her sudden transformation. Was she created as Adam's wife merely to become a demon? She is clearly more complicated than that, as she does not really belong in Hell. Here, with her broken wings bound in red, she is flanked by two grotesquely leonine creatures, her guardians and companions. And at her feet is her namesake and traditional familiar, albeit distortedly humanoid, that quitenssential creature of the darkness - an owl. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 02:06:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "O. S. Kerr" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Best Choir for Angel of Comedy > > I was going to recommend a Malakite or a Seraph, on the > > grounds that a, say, Seraph of Comedy is already a funny > > idea. > > puts me in mind of those people who say "it's funny, because > it's *true*!" the angel of observational comedy? i have this > image of a deadpan seraph still slightly bemused by the > humour he's able to cause in others I've been following this tread, and the more I think about it, I think Elohim is the way to go with Comedy. They can objectively suss out what is funny to people, and have the flexibility to do or say anything that would make people laugh. JM.02 O. ===== ** Lead Playtester for Storyteller: The Colon ** ** I minored in behavioral psychology. Tragic irony and human suffering are just hobbies. ** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 02:07:38 -0700 (PDT) From: "O. S. Kerr" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Best Choir for Angel of Comedy > Why do I have a picture of Seinfeld with a huge pair of > angel's wings going through my head? Along with his little > Reliever pal Jason Alexander? Nah. Buster Keaton, with shabby halo, wings, and That Look on his face... O. ===== ** Lead Playtester for Storyteller: The Colon ** ** I minored in behavioral psychology. Tragic irony and human suffering are just hobbies. ** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 02:24:55 -0700 (PDT) From: "O. S. Kerr" Subject: Re: IN> Followup to New supplements > If an EPG is planned, I would be MUCH happier buying it if > it includes an adventure based on the Purity Crusade, and > has a write-up of the Grigori. Purity Crusade info, sure. Adventure, no thanks. Ethereal holdouts (griffin, dragons, etc), yes, please! Why would the EPG have info on the Grigori? They were hanging about on the Corporeal level of things... > A write-up of Uriel would be good, too (but unprecedented - > no lost superiors have been written up officially yet IIRC). > Since this would mean that it would not be totally a PLAYER'S > guide, perhaps the EPG could be the last half of the book. No! I'm still holding out for IN Heresy! Book One: The Lost -- Metatron, Oannes, Raphael, and Uriel Book Two: The Taken -- Gebbeleth, Genubath, Legion, Makatiel, Mariel, Meserach, and Vephar Book Three: The Long Step Down -- Fallen Archangels Book Four: Into the Light -- Redeemed/Pre-Fall Demon Princes > (I personally love those books with two front covers and > half the insides upside down). Yuk! I remember a few from the 70's... hard on the alphabetizing librarian that lives in my heart... O. ===== ** Lead Playtester for Storyteller: The Colon ** ** I minored in behavioral psychology. Tragic irony and human suffering are just hobbies. ** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 04:36:43 -0500 From: Jonathan B Lotzer Subject: Re: IN> Followup to New supplements > No! I'm still holding out for IN Heresy! > > Book One: The Lost -- Metatron, Oannes, Raphael, and Uriel > > Book Two: The Taken -- Gebbeleth, Genubath, Legion, Makatiel, > Mariel, Meserach, and Vephar > > Book Three: The Long Step Down -- Fallen Archangels > > Book Four: Into the Light -- Redeemed/Pre-Fall Demon Princes > Oh very very cool idea. I would put these books in the must have category. > > > (I personally love those books with two front covers and > > half the insides upside down). > > Yuk! I remember a few from the 70's... hard on the > alphabetizing librarian that lives in my heart... > On a more practical note, I have to wonder how easy these would be for tabletop reference. Having to flip the book to get to different sections..sometimes almost hold it sideways if you want to read multiple sections. Not to mention the difficulties involved in trying to grab a certain book. "Uhhh, grab the Grigori book for me." "I don't see a Grigori book." "What, I'm sure that I brought it..oh, its also the Ethereals book, gotta flip it over." I know this was a bad example, but hopefully shines a dim light on some of the inherent problems. Jonathan B Lotzer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 10:51:00 +0100 From: Sam Kington Subject: Re: IN> Re: Best Choir for Angel of Comedy Liam Astley wrote: > > From: Earl Wajenberg > > I was going to recommend a Malakite or a Seraph, on the grounds > > that a, say, Seraph of Comedy is already a funny idea. > > puts me in mind of those people who say "it's funny, because it's > *true*!" the angel of observational comedy? i have this image of a > deadpan seraph still slightly bemused by the humour he's able to cause > in others No; we're talking about a Seraph here. Both because the angel of Comedy must really *understand* his Word, and because he's a Seraph, and thus can see the Truth, the Seraph Angel of Comedy must *know* he's funny. In fact, I believe the angel of Comedy is, possibly, the only Seraph who really *gets* it. He sees the Truth - and it's hilarious. Sam - -- Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/inwo/ Of course it's the murder weapon. Who would frame someone with a fake? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 02:54:46 -0700 (PDT) From: "O. S. Kerr" Subject: Re: IN> New Heretic Superior (Yup, another one) > So, what have I done? You made me cry, is what you've done. Damn you. It was the image of Dominic, looking up to weather a playful barb... a barb that never comes. (Eight eyes drop to the papers on the table, wings shift uncomfortably, clearing his throat.) > I think that it works, but I found it highly > distasteful. Right now, I could use somebody telling > me whether or not what I did to my favorite Archangel > seems a logical extension to the previous stuff. Yes, it was. Well done. > Not whether or not it was a nasty thing to do to a nice > girl: I already know it was. Just whether it was valid, > artistically speaking. Valid and consistent. Damn. Novalis takes it u* t** a** in Dark Victory, too. Both stories make me very, very sad. I really hate the thought of such a bright soul becoming so tarnished. I suppose that's the point, though. Thank you. O. ===== ** Lead Playtester for Storyteller: The Colon ** ** I minored in behavioral psychology. Tragic irony and human suffering are just hobbies. ** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 11:05:59 +0100 (BST) From: Warsinger Subject: Re: IN> New Heretic Superior (Yup, another one) Very well written - I was practically crying reading it. All I can say really - I'm still too upset - and I don't want to hear comments about it only being a game. Warsinger Cute and fluffy....(with claws) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 06:55:28 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> New Heretic Superior (Yup, another one) At 8:51 PM -0700 5/8/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >Now, about now I usually do my "any feedback is >appreciated" spiel. (Nitpick- MalakiTE is singular. MalakiM is plural... Likewise, CherubIM, not Cherubs.) Like the David quote-pair, esp. her-to-him. Yves-on- her also v. nice. "Novalis has two, seemingly contradictory goals: to promote peace and love among humanity, and to annihilate every enemy to peace and love that gets within range." What's the phrase...? You go, girl? >Just whether it was valid, artistically speaking. Sure. Works fine. (Besides, characters are for torturing; trust me. It, ah, build character.) (Perhaps I've been reading/watching _Nadesico_ too much, but really -- someone (pref. a Princess) hostile to Levi needs to have the quote: " Baka." [*]) [* "idiot."] - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1616 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.