From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon May 15 11:52:08 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA23379 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 11:52:07 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id LAA01787 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 15 May 2000 11:49:34 -0500 Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 11:49:34 -0500 Message-Id: <200005151649.LAA01787@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1627 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, May 15 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1627 In this digest: RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) Re: IN> What the Demon Princess of Cute did today. . . Re: IN> A few things Re: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) Re: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) Re: IN> What the Demon Princess of Cute did today. . . Re: IN> A few things Re: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) Re: IN> Novalis' Celestial Form Re: IN> What the Demon Princess of Cute did today. . . Re: IN> A few things IN> Maya's Maher Stories (Re: A few things) RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) Re: IN> How do I know you're what you say you are? Re: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) Re: IN> New Angels Re: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) Re: IN> A few things Re: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) Re: IN> How do I know you're what you say you are? Re: IN> Another In Nomine crossover IN> Re: Another In Nomine crossover Re: IN> New Angels IN> Re; a few things Re: IN> How do I know you're what you say you are? Re: IN> New Angels ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 04:06:57 +1000 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) Sean wrote: > Given the nature of the Marches, one could just as easily say any random > ethereal might LOOK like a Malakite...even a specific Malakite. > So what is > the procedure for Blandine's own Servitors to go home? You can just as > easily extend the theory to "You look like Bobiel, everyone's favorite > Seraph of Archives. You certainly sound like Bobiel. However, you might > be an ethereal replica of Bobiel whose knowledge was gained by torturing > Bobiel to death somewhere Out There. Please wait a few hours to get into > Heaven..." IMC, Malakim of Dreams prowl the Marches constantly, unseen and unheard. If you seem to be heading towards Blandine's tower or domain, they will stop you and ask why. Their attunement allows them to go unnoticed unless they choose to be seen, so if someone steps out of nowhere, can identify your most honourable or dishonourable deeds and demands to know what you want, odds are in my game it's a Malakite. Seraphim can see the truth of statements, so the Malakim have standing procedure to go find a Seraph to verify identities if there is any doubt (and a core group of Seraphim wait at designated locations for just such duty). > If it is the case that everyone needs to be quarantined for examination > prior to being allowed to enter the Tower(for quite a long time) ... that > would change the sense of things a bit I think. It won't necessarily be too long. However, IMO the Marches are the most vulnerable territory available to Heaven. They offer a direct gate into Heaven and anyone within them can appear as anything they like. Under these circumstances Blandines servitors are doubly cautious. Would _you_ like to be the one to explain to Blandine that you let a demon into Heaven because he 'looked okay' even though a Seraph was nearby? Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 16:07:46 +1000 From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> What the Demon Princess of Cute did today. . . > At 9:18 PM -0500 05/14/00, Tafka J. wrote: > >preported gifts are inteded for her Dreadness, the Demon Princess of > ^^^^^^^ > > For those of you out there looking for that elusive Nitpicking Essence, > it's 'intended'. > > I, uhmn, did it on purpose. It was inteded in more than one level no? -_^ Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 02:13:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Gant Subject: Re: IN> A few things On Mon, 15 May 2000, mink wrote: > 7) Seeing as Fluerity has dominion over drugs, does he get all the caffeine > addicts as well? ((oh lord help us roleplayers... so many demons with word > that are biased against us)) My campaign has Cappuchinel, Demon of Coffee. He started out as a bit of a joke (after I heard that the Pope declared coffee to be a drink of the devil when it was first introduced to Europe), but slowly grew into a serious character. He's about 600 years old, and originally served Kobal (who sponsored him for the Word) before moving on to work for the previous Prince of Drugs. He's now semi-independent (although affiliated with Kobal still), and refuses to work for Fleurity until he proves himself a competant holder of the Word of Drugs. Unfortunatly, he still doesn't have any stats. Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/4656/ The Returners Final Fantasy Role-Playing Game Site: http://returners.simplenet.com/ or http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Matrix/5758/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 01:26:39 -0500 From: Uncle Wolf Subject: Re: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) Sean McCarthy wrote: > > I am having a very hard time imagining there being that much red tape among > Blandine's servitors. > > Given the nature of the Marches, one could just as easily say any random > ethereal might LOOK like a Malakite...even a specific Malakite. So what is > the procedure for Blandine's own Servitors to go home? You can just as > easily extend the theory to "You look like Bobiel, everyone's favorite > Seraph of Archives. You certainly sound like Bobiel. However, you might > be an ethereal replica of Bobiel whose knowledge was gained by torturing > Bobiel to death somewhere Out There. Please wait a few hours to get into > Heaven..." > > If it is the case that everyone needs to be quarantined for examination > prior to being allowed to enter the Tower(for quite a long time) ... that > would change the sense of things a bit I think. Just take them a couple of flights up the stairs of the Tower and the Celestial/Ethereal border, the Light of Heaven, and the truth of speech in Heaven will sort out who is what very quick. An Ethereal, canonically [at least as I understand it] can not cross the border into Heaven; an Infernal can cross, but takes Celestial form once over the border, so the soul hits dealt to it by the Light of Heaven will show up as wounds on its body, thus giving away its true allegiance; Humans can cross the border, but like angels, there words come out as Celestial speech and give away whether they are speaking truth, opinion, or are telling tales [at least that is how it works IMC, though there is a double sound when humans speak, like a person and their translator both speaking at the same time when a foreign national is interviewed on the nightly news; Angels don't need translators, since Heaven-tongue is their 'native' language]. Taking them up the Tower's stairs has the added advantage that, if they are speaking the truth, they are that much further along towards getting help for their problems. All this is only relevant only if you rule that Saints, like Celestials, are displaced by Shedim to the Marches and not just suppressed in corpore by the Shedim. Tom Timberlake, sometime Cadre Cherub of Heaven - --- Strange blood, howl again, for now we know to well - Better a friend on paths unknown, than to be alone in hell! "Strange Blood" A Wolfrider's Reflection, by various artists ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 02:17:00 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) At 11:04 PM -0700 5/14/00, Jo Hart wrote: >>From: Whistling in the Dark >It's open to interpretation, but I would have said so. I just think >it's important to the whole Shedite schtick that the host is still >trapped in there somewhere. > >It's a horribly powerful attunement, mind. > Mm. Ninty-nine percent of the time I think I'd agree. Yes, this a reversal from an earlier position, but frankly it's a lot creepier that way, and that's good for Shedim. In the specific case of a Saint, perhaps not, however. Their blessed state *should* give them some advantage not usually found. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 04:26:17 +1000 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) Uncle Wolf wrote: > Just take them a couple of flights up the stairs of the Tower and the > Celestial/Ethereal border, the Light of Heaven, and the truth of speech > in Heaven will sort out who is what very quick. Well, if that's the way you want to run it but in my campaign the angels aren't going to risk letting any unknown into an angelic cathedral, just to see if it's good or bad. There are less dangerous and more cost-effective ways, IMO. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 23:39:50 -0700 From: "Robert Veneman-Hughes" Subject: RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) > Well, if that's the way you want to run it but in my campaign > the angels > aren't going to risk letting any unknown into an angelic > cathedral, just to > see if it's good or bad. There are less dangerous and more > cost-effective > ways, IMO. What damage can 'any unknown' really do in a cathedral if they are anything short of a Demon Prince or Lucifer himself? - -Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 23:48:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:54:07 -0500From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) Sean McCarthy wrote: >>I would think Saints can speak in high celestial, >>which means that when they say "I am a Saint working >>on direct orders from the General himself and I must >>speak with him immediately." it comes out in that >>absolute literal truth sort of way. >They can only speak celestial on the celestial plane >(and if they can get to Heaven, the question of >whether or not they're really a Saint is >kind of moot). >- -David Point. OTOH, the _idea_ is sound. Given that it's _really_ hard to corrupt Saints, I'd say that it would be safe to give them some kind of code phrase that would establish their bona fides quickly. Also, I would rule that a Saint's dreamscape would likely be as close to Blandine's Tower as you could get without paying rent. Demons who followed the Saint would find themselves _deep_ in enemy territory: the resulting firefight would kind of obviates the point of stealthily stealing the Saint's vessel. As for handling the Shedite problem, my suggestion would be to use the time-honored solution used by cops anywhere when one of their own gets shot or killed: turn up the heat. I would have, as a standard order by the Seraphim Council (*all* of the Seraphim Council. Yes, even Jordi), that this attack is one of the few things that mandates every celestial in the area to drop everything unimportant and go whale on the nearest demon (in whatever way works best for the angel) for a while. That includes dropping all private feuds that one Superior has with another.* I'd also imagine that any Shedim that pulled off possessing a Saint's vessel would be on the short list for the Order of the Eternal Sword's personal attention. That would seem reasonable, regardless of what you think of the rest of my suggestions. Would Malphas care? Probably not, though the idea that his actions are promoting solidarity would probably piss him off. Would the other DPs (especially Nybbas, Asmodeus, Andreaphlus and Lilith, who are particularly vulnerable to this trick) care? Almost certainly, and they'll know who to blame. All in all, it may not stop the practice, but his Shedites would be less likely to try it whenever they feel like it. YMVV, of course. Morgan Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Play Balance *It's a bit extreme, but so is the situation. If you don't like it, just house rule that a Saint's Vessel when not possessed by its owner pops back to the celestial plane. _That'll_ fix him, especially if the Shedim goes along for the ride. :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 01:56:35 -0500 From: "Tafka J." Subject: Re: IN> What the Demon Princess of Cute did today. . . At 4:07 PM +1000 05/15/00, Azrael wrote: >It was inteded in more than one level no? -_^ *groans* Beth, those Habbalah, can I borrow them when you're done with them? Pain. Oooh the Pain. Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = tafkaj@thrifty.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 00:03:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> A few things Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 00:02:39 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> A few things At 10:53 PM -0500 5/14/00, David Edelstein wrote: >>mink wrote: >>> 4) The word of {Horoscopes}, who would have it? >>>angels demons or both? which superior would it come >>>under? YVES, KRONOS or MALPHAS? and what >>>Chior/Band >>> would be better to serve it?> >>Balseraph of Astrology, Fallen Seraph of Astronomy, >>Servitor of Kronos.Teaches people to let the stars >>guide their fates -- they are helpless to resist the >>influence of the heavens upon their lives. >Note also that the Word of Horoscopes or Astrology >aren't *innately* infernal, but I don't see the >Seraphim Council ever giving a word >that encourages false beliefs so directly. Whereas >the Demons often *love* it, when they can control it. I _think_ that the above gives the right attributions... ;) Anyway. Astrology, if I remember my classes correctly, was eventually mined of the practical knowledge associated with it (observations of the stars, planets, eclipses, stuff like that) and turned into Astronomy. The mystical aspects ended up with, well, the mystics. :) Now, Astronomy would have been under either Raphael or Jean. I could see how an angel could have the Word of "The discipline originally designated as Astrology, but later on evolved into Astronomy". Depending on the conservatism of the angel, he/she/it might prefer the older name. So, you could have both sides having Word-bound celestials of Astrology, if you really wanted to. They probably don't like each other very much. Morgan (FAW) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 03:10:03 -0400 From: "Aaron Medwin" Subject: Re: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) From: Leath Sheales > > If it is the case that everyone needs to be quarantined for examination > > prior to being allowed to enter the Tower(for quite a long time) ... that > > would change the sense of things a bit I think. > > It won't necessarily be too long. However, IMO the Marches are the most > vulnerable territory available to Heaven. They offer a direct gate into > Heaven and anyone within them can appear as anything they like. Under these > circumstances Blandines servitors are doubly cautious. Would _you_ like to > be the one to explain to Blandine that you let a demon into Heaven because > he 'looked okay' even though a Seraph was nearby? Certainly not, however, it's not as if it's hard to figure out. According to Heaven and Hell(and it's something I don't like, personally), Heaven has an alarm system, just in case a demon does manage to get in. Presumably this would lead to the quick celestial death of the Diabolical who walked in through Blandine's Tower. And ethereals can't enter the celestial realm anyway, so there's not a whole lot of point to guarding against *them*. On the other hand, having a few dozen Malakim to pick off the odd ethereal who tries doesn't seem like a bad idea. I just can't picture Heaven standing guard so vigilantly, when the border itself isn't hard to defend at all. Doesn't seem practical, and Heaven doesn't like to waste resources. > Leath. - -Aaron Medwin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 00:25:25 -0700 (PDT) From: "O. S. Kerr" Subject: Re: IN> Novalis' Celestial Form > >I have a soft spot for whiny, codependent, self- > >involved and pathetic demons who are utterly out of their > >depth. :) > > > > Join the dark side :) I've always had a soft spot for really > pathetic demons. "Ehhhahh... sheesh! Mike! Stop with the chopping and the kicking, already!" Woody Allen, Demon of New York City ===== ** Lead Playtester for Storyteller: The Colon ** ** I minored in behavioral psychology. Tragic irony and human suffering are just hobbies. ** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 18:03:13 +1000 From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> What the Demon Princess of Cute did today. . . > > >preported gifts are inteded for her Dreadness, the Demon Princess of > > ^^^^^^^ > > > > For those of you out there looking for that elusive Nitpicking Essence, > > it's 'intended'. > > > > I, uhmn, did it on purpose. > > It was inteded in more than one level no? -_^ ^^^^^^ For those of you out there looking for that elusive Nitpicking Essence, it's 'intended'. I, uhmn, did it on purpose. Yeah that's it, I did it on purpose....errrr Dammit! now I look really silly. Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 07:41:19 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> A few things At 4:33 AM +0100 5/15/00, mink wrote: >Just a couple of things... > >1) Folks have mentioned the [splatbooks] and i'm curious as to how i can get >them. if any one can help me in this matter i'd be more than grateful. A: Friendly Local Gaming Store. B: www.warehouse23.com >3) Maher story, most excellent indeed, but what about the Elohite, or is >that another story? The Elohite of Lightning who got accused? Another story, probably -- one not yet written. >6) What superior would be able to give the word of [bad dice rolls] and what >band would uphold that word best? Only Lucifer could _give_ the Word. Princes who might sponsor someone for that Word (i.e., finding Lucifer and pitching their Servitor as a candidate and please don't toast him offhand) could be, hm... Probably Kobal as a "catch-all", Asmodeus with the games connection, and Kronos. It's a bit trivial for the last two, though you never know -- they might consider sponsoring a Servitor for the Word if they heard Kobal was going to, just because they hate Kobal (and he might think of something clever to do with the Word). >7) Seeing as Fluerity has dominion over drugs, does he get all the caffeine >addicts as well? ((oh lord help us roleplayers... so many demons with word >that are biased against us)) I don't think so -- he used to be Haagenti's Servitor, and Haagenti hung onto a lot of Words that Fleurity would _like_ to have under him. >8) how would each of the AAs and DPs react to a circus.. your thoughts on >this please! My off-the-cuff personal take on it... Janus, Eli, & Novalis: Cool! Jordi: Slavery! Dominic, Laurence, Michael, Litheroy, & Jean: Irrelevant. Litheroy: Except the magic show -- must find out how they're doing it. David: The staff [whatever the right term is for this; carnies?] stick together. Blandine & Christopher: The kids like it. Khalid: Western. Hmph. Gabriel: Yves: Andre: Ooo, trained animals! Kronos: Mammon & Asmodeus: Valefor: Mmm, crowds with their money. Vapula: Saminga: Nobody's dying. Bah. Kobal & Haagenti: Cool! (With different shades of sarcasm or lack thereof.) Baal, Belial, & Beleth: Boring. Fleurity: Malphas: Hates when the staff stick together. Nybbas: COOL! FILM IT! (And set the animals loose at least once.) - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 07:47:45 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Maya's Maher Stories (Re: A few things) At 11:05 PM -0500 5/14/00, Tafka J. wrote: >At 4:33 AM +0100 05/15/00, mink wrote: > >>3) Maher story, most excellent indeed, but what about the Elohite, or is >>that another story? > > Probably another story. But I'm curious why this is the SECOND Maher >story. Where is the first? *Makes _please_ eyes toward Genevieve* http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~maya/nomine.html has the list of all her stories, vignettes, adventure seeds, and many more wonderous things drawn from the mind of Genevieve/Maya. Things that have made us say stuff like calling her "The most unspeakable evil, in the nicest way" and other high praise for the twistyness of her mind and the fluency of her keyboard. Maher has two stories as the prime character, and appears in at least two others in the Caliah sequence. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 08:13:08 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) At 10:51 PM -0700 5/14/00, Sean McCarthy wrote: >I am having a very hard time imagining there being that much red tape among >Blandine's servitors. Way I'd figure it... Go ahead, escort them into the Heaven-side of the Tower. If they're a demon, they'll fry (and in celestial form, which will clearly give away their nature, so you can help the frying along a little by pounding on them). If they're an ethereal, it won't work (and even if it did IYC, they wouldn't look like a human, right?). If they're a human, it may or may not work (depending on what you do IYC about dream shades or sorcerers or Hellsworn) and you can send a reliever on whatever errand they say is so urgent while you're getting a Seraph/Malakite/Mercurian/Elohite/Bright Lilim (hee) to check them out. How, you ask? Seraph: "Please state your nature and why you are here." Malakite: "Let's see -- have you been a good soul or a bad soul..." Elohite: Mercurian: "So, you got any allegiences to Dark Powers we should know about?" Bright Lilim (included for completeness): Even if you hold someone up at the lower end, you can always send a messenger into Heaven to talk to whoever the soul wants to report to -- "Hey, Sword Servitor! We've got this Saint, says he's been bounced out of his body. Who do I talk to about verifying him and fixing what bounced him?" [And as for bouncing Saints -- Shedim of Malphas or the Song of Possession are equally annoying. Well, Shedim last longer, but aside from that... A demon with the Song of Possession could get real annoying, but heck -- Song of Form and offing the Saint in question (or kidnapping him!) are jsut as good and you don't have to worry about those Blessed modifiers.] (And yes, I figure that a Shedite of Malphas drives the host mind away entirely -- i.e., into the Marches, just as the Song of Possession does. A normal human would be in their dreamscape, like with Kyrio possession. A lucid dreamer, on the other hand...) (The reason that I figure Shedim of Malphas kick the mind out entirely, where it's not trapped, is because Malphas is into the factioning thing -- his Shedim _don't_ share, because that is, in a sick twisted way, _sharing_. It's two, not one. Even if the host mind were subjugated (and I don't think I read the phrasing that way -- they "drive away their host's mind entiely", not "suppress their host's mind entirely"), that would be a form of sharing, of "twoness," that Malphas would likely not tolerate.) At 3:10 AM -0400 5/15/00, Aaron Medwin wrote: >Certainly not, however, it's not as if it's hard to figure out. According to >Heaven and Hell(and it's something I don't like, personally), Heaven has an >alarm system, just in case a demon does manage to get in. Errata -- while they make disturbance coming in (angels don't), it's not the Heaven-wide car alarm. However, they _do_ start frying in the Light of Heaven, and they _look_ like a demon, and if they've been _escorted_ up into Heaven by a couple of high-Celestial Forces guards... (I don't know if anyone's said there shouldn't be _guards_ on a stranger entering the Tower. I sure would assume that there'd be an escort...) Well, that's going to be one unhappy demon who thought he'd found a clever way to get into Heaven. (see www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/errata -- yes, I hated the Heavenwide alarm too. I liked frying demons instead. Mmmm, the smell of sizzling Balseraph in the morning!) - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 06:35:52 -0500 From: "Kiara S. Legner" Subject: Re: IN> How do I know you're what you say you are? The discussion on Saints brings up another question: Kyriotates tend to have 'tags' to identify themselves to folk who already know them. How do other angels/demons/whatever identify themselves to their own side? It would seem that celestials run the very real risk of having someone from the other side pose as one of their own on earth. How have you folks handled that issue in your games? My take on this at the moment is often "first we try, then we trust" - otherwise it's finding someone who can vouch for the celestial in question, or a trip to a tether and a change into celestial form, or someone who happens to have the Friend of the Fighters attunement using it to speak in celestial, but what I've ended up with is an angelic presence on earth that comes across as far more suspicious and paranoid than I'd like. I haven't, however, come up with a better way of handling it that doesn't involve the angels being far *too* trusting - and, therefore, stupid. Ideas? Kiara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 06:37:40 -0500 From: "Kiara S. Legner" Subject: Re: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) >>I am having a very hard time imagining there being that much red tape among Blandine's servitors. If it is the case that everyone needs to be quarantined for examination prior to being allowed to enter the Tower(for quite a long time) ... that would change the sense of things a bit I think.<< Yup. I'm running into this problem on earth, as well. Ki ------------------------------ Date: 15 May 2000 12:28:14 -0000 From: "Chris Rose" Subject: Re: IN> New Angels On Thu, 11 May 2000 00:38:08 PDT Jo Hart wrote: > > > >>From: "David Rodemaker" >>Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >> >>Come to think of it do we have any ideas as to the ratio of newly >>created angels to fledged relievers as they are being created now? It would >>vary by Superior but a poll of rough guesses? >> > > >(Standard non-canon disclaimer) > >There's been a creeping tendency to see relievers as 'baby angels'; ie. a >kind of larval form who all inevitably fledge. > >I don't agree with that. I gotta go with Jo on this one. Character I'm dying to play : Reliever of Creation No Choir Dissonance Condition, no Superior Dissonance Condition. This guy has realised that he has the potential to be the -=perfect=- "angel". He's been around for ages, and keeps nocking back teh offer of a 9th force. He has skills, songs, etc, coming out of the wazoo, but just doesn't want to fledge, so that he can be an incredibly effective soldier in the war. .. Anybody have any ideas ? - -------- Chris Rose ofanite@gospeedgo.com Angel of Phone Technical Support Ofanite of Lightning ________________________________________________________________ Get Email, News, Links and The Best Selection at http://AnimeNation.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 05:35:33 PDT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) > > Yup. I'm running into this problem on earth, as well. > > My thought was that the local seraph of destiny gets quite popular. jo ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 08:04:02 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> A few things Jonathan B Lotzer wrote: > Perhaps a more interesting question, and one that is closely connected: Why is the > Word false? If you believe the hype, there are a great number of legitimate > people that live by them? Throughout history, prophecy has been seen as a > legitimate tool of leaders, whether secular or religious. This seems to be more > of an interpretation rather than a cannon issue. Prophecy and astrology aren't the same thing. There is canon reference to an Angel of Astrology, though -- he originally used astrology as a metaphor to help primitive people understand certain concepts. When he started using it as a predictive tool, though, he Fell. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 08:09:22 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) Leath Sheales wrote: > Well, if that's the way you want to run it but in my campaign the angels> aren't going to risk letting any unknown into an angelic cathedral, just to> see if it's good or bad. There are less dangerous and more cost-effective> ways, IMO. Dangerous how? The LAST place a diabolical wants to be is an angelic Cathedral. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 08:16:08 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> How do I know you're what you say you are? "Kiara S. Legner" wrote: >How do other angels/demons/whatever identify themselves to their > own side? That's what Seraphim are for. (Though Malakim, Elohim, and Mercurians all have pretty good resonances for sorting angels from diabolicals, and a Kyriotate of Destiny or Protection could do a quick check if necessary. "All right, if you're really an angel/Saint/Soldier of God, you won't mind letting me possess you for a couple of seconds to make sure.") - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 09:21:30 -0400 From: neelk@cswcasa.com Subject: Re: IN> Another In Nomine crossover Omentide wrote: > > > >it's feudal Heaven versus Stalinist Hell...). > > I tend to view Heaven as the planned economy and Hell as the free > market. Per the books, the parts of Hell with any economies at all -- mostly Hades, Stygia and Shal-mari -- are more kleptocracies than anything. Stygia and Shal-mari come across as gangster havens like Macau and Russia in the real world, differing primarily in the amount of advertising, whereas Hades is a license raj (like India) in which a bloated but underpaid civil service abuses their powers for personal wealth. (Though corrupt rulers prosper in Shal-mari and gangsters no doubt grow fat in Hades, too.) I don't think it's a coincidence that these three principalities are the the only ones in which I can imagine running an extended campaign, either. It's the second clause in "I have something you want, but there are social rules that make it unwise for you to just bash em over the head and take it" that make for planning and scheming. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 11:01:21 -0700 From: "Matthew W." Subject: IN> Re: Another In Nomine crossover With all this Star Wars talk going on, I just have to ask: did anyone else when they first read the Fiery Sword artifact's description immediately think of the modified Vapula/Jean version, the Light Saber. Same rules, cooler modern look. = Mathus = = Demon of Rants = = ArchRival of Timothy = ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 10:04:42 -0500 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: IN> New Angels > I gotta go with Jo on this one. > > Character I'm dying to play : Reliever of Creation > > No Choir Dissonance Condition, no Superior Dissonance Condition. > > This guy has realised that he has the potential to be the -=perfect=- "angel". He's been around for ages, and keeps nocking back teh offer of a 9th force. He has skills, songs, etc, coming out of the wazoo, but just doesn't want to fledge, so that he can be an incredibly effective soldier in the war. .. > > Anybody have any ideas ? Ouch... I love it but don't Celestials need Hearts to operate on the Corporeal plane? I know that relievers can be sent there for specific missons but I would tend to think that it has to *very* specific. The Other David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 17:47:42 +0100 From: "mink" Subject: IN> Re; a few things Re; a few things TAROT: for those of you that play mage, smif done the art for a quarter of the mage tarot set. nice too. In Nomine Cross over: hmm heaven i always thought was full of ~buearacracy~ nott to the point of ridiculousness that hell seems full of, but filling in reports of how the 'mission' went etc. hell... if your good at what you do then you can stay alive long enough to carve out a niche in the walls of back to back killers and get on with your job knowing that all the others that tried to do the job before failed and died (often by your own hands...). Possesion: trust your instintcs on this one. if the players want to posess the saint then give them hell when they are in the vessal. saints are the celestial/humans that are beings full of the voice of god, in other words the shedite may start to be nicer, not realizing it, then WHAMMO you got a kyriotate back in the saints body because he kept putting off the daily damnation that he resonates for. as for the Malakite and the shedite in a saints vessal.. well the malakite would constrain the vessal, not harming it ~too much~ and call for some one who knew a song to get the shedite out, even if they have to possess the body and force the shedite out. Vapulan Super Soldiers: heheheheheheehe.... and the release date was put back due to a critical programing error, but when the game is released in two months time there will be a free music cd so you get to listen to post apocalyptic tunes whilst crushing the enemy. also, the webb page will have all the fixes for any bugs that may crop up..... and also, there will be a special ~team play~ option where you can control a number of smaller killer drones and have fun with your friends whilst kicking the butt of 'the alien menace from above' ((hmm i gotta write this down.... this will be a long game i think for my players ......)) > >"Just listen to me, and you'll go far. . ." >Funny, I always thought Damnation was a Balseraph of Fate? Looks like a balseraph, smells like a balsearph, tastes like... chicken(!?) i think that a shedite is far better at the whole damnation trick. yeah sure the balseraph would tell the victim stuff that would cause him to do daming things, but the shedite i think would have more fun being in the host whilst he gets them to do the minor things daily and slowly works up to the bigger stuff. eventually the host would start to just do ~bad~ things out of habit, by then the shedite is long gone..... *Turns to the Marquis* "really?, well i am getting some where, but hey like they say, if some one offers you a lift, get a lift, then pound them senseless and keep the car." Splat Books: its the 'unofficial' ones i would like, whether they be seroius or not. Borris Valejo: http://web.tin.it/mirror/femmes/femmes/VALLEJO http://homepages.go.com/~icecreamtw/pics/bv1.html http://www.borisjulie.com/paintings/bv.htm Maher Story: ooh more maher stories.. yummy yes please Cannon: the rules are there to be ignored. or if you want, you can use them as guidelines.... Well thanks to those who answered the stuff. perhaps some one could write up the ~funny~ version of superiors at the circus. };-p Colgarothialmes, Demon of Damnation, Shedite who looks like a Balseraph, but would never admit it ~(-;{ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 12:50:16 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> How do I know you're what you say you are? At 6:35 AM -0500 5/15/00, Kiara S. Legner wrote: >The discussion on Saints brings up another question: > >Kyriotates tend to have 'tags' to identify themselves to folk who already >know them. How do other angels/demons/whatever identify themselves to their >own side? Well, it depends... >It would seem that celestials run the very real risk of having someone from >the other side pose as one of their own on earth. Yes -- this is, as it happens, deliberate. Having that edge of uncertainty (unless you feel like making the noise to take celestial form) is part of the setting that was put there on purpose. O:> > How have you folks handled that issue in your games? Well, in Maya's Fiat game, the Ofanite of Trade shot the Elohite of Judgment when a triad showed up on her doorstep... Just in the arm, though, and they decided the circumstances were such that they'd over- look the matter. (She stopped when she found out they _were_ angels.) It has, of course, become smething of a running joke, at least among the players. (It's a fairly old one by now, so it doesn't come up much, but I remember it fondly.) However, one of the ways around it is the "Mirror of Truth" relic from the Liber Reliquarum. Now in handy locket size for triads of Judgment! (And as it happens, that design is listed in S1. Hee.) Those things, fed a little Essence and activated, will show celestial forms reflected in them. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 13:02:37 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> New Angels At 12:28 PM +0000 5/15/00, Chris Rose wrote: >On Thu, 11 May 2000 00:38:08 PDT Jo Hart wrote: >>(Standard non-canon disclaimer) >> >>There's been a creeping tendency to see relievers as 'baby angels'; ie. a >>kind of larval form who all inevitably fledge. >> >>I don't agree with that. > >I gotta go with Jo on this one. My thought (personally, which may or may not creep into official, etc.) is sort of inbetween from "baby angels" and "inevitably fledge." I _do_ tend to see them as baby angels who will _eventually_ fledge (probably), but not necessarily as being focused on that. Some can't decide what they want to be when they "grow up," some are happy being support staff behind the scenes or as familiars, some are over-achievers who would rather be sterling "babies" than average "adults"... Some just adore the ability to stay in celestial form indefinitely. (1/2/5 configuration, and you have a "baby" bruiser that not many demons would really want to mess with! Look, Tether guards! Okay, they're not too bright -- buy up the three points-before-the-Force of characteristics and put them into Ethereal characteristics.) >Character I'm dying to play : Reliever of Creation [...] >Anybody have any ideas ? Talk to your GM about character points for the Songs and skills, and figure out who (if anyone) he's in service to. Sure, go for it. (I would probably have fledged angels sometimes be a little patronizing to the "baby" until they realized _how_ long he's been kicking around, as a GM. Some might not understand how he could _not_ want a resonance, and try to talk him into it -- but hey, if you're going to play an unusual charcter... O:> (I _like_ running up against logical reactions to the unusual, myself.) You'll also want to talk your GM into letting you buy extra characteristics (3 points each, IIRC?), letting you add 3 to the characteristics in each Force-grouping. (*)) (* Something my "Nooo, if I get bigger I'll make more noise when I change vessels or go celestial and they'll _hear_ me!" Renegade takes advantage of...) - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1627 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.