From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed May 24 06:49:48 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA10817 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 06:49:47 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id GAA13354 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 24 May 2000 06:45:46 -0500 Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 06:45:46 -0500 Message-Id: <200005241145.GAA13354@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1641 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, May 24 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1641 In this digest: Re: IN> Losing Superiors RE: IN> In Nomine Dice RE: IN> Words for all! IN> In Nomine on Ebay... Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! Re: IN> Re: Angels and Religeous Patronage Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! Re: IN> Some Advice Please Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! Re: IN> Eli the Muse? Re: IN> Gabrielle's judgement Re: IN> Age and Words Re: IN> Words for all! Re: IN> Words for all! Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! Re: IN> Some Advice Please Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! Re: IN> Losing Superiors IN> Words for Humans. Not! Re: IN> Humans and words Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 05:31:55 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Losing Superiors At 9:10 PM -0400 5/22/00, J. Michael Smith wrote: >What happens to a superior's servitors when that superior gets >killed? (Especially when an obvious replacement is not available.) There are some hints with the demonic side in the IPG. Basically, mostly what everyone else has noted. They can switch sides, sign on with another Superior (possibly only "in service to," if they have a lot of Band/Choir Attunements that they don't want to lose [*]), or go Renegade/Outcast. In Heaven, they might be able to sort of bum around Heaven doing odd jobs -- but they probably wouldn't be able to go down to Earth without losing their "Still Coping With The Shock" status and getting hunted by Judgment. In Hell, they might be able to fake being someone else's Servitor (especially in Shal-Mari, where I have this personal notion that a lot of "quasi-affiliated" demons hang out waiting for a Real Servitor to notice them) but if this gets discovered (and especially if they go to Earth that way), the Game grabs them and asks some pointed (ow!) questions. An Orphan's Rites will not work. His Band/Choir/Servitor Attunements will, unless his Superior was _really_ weak and died a _really_ long time ago. (The attunements of a mere Word-bound only last if the Word was really powerful; Superior attunements are the other way around.) In GURPS IN, if he has a Heart, he's still bound by the ex-Superior's dissonance conditions, IIRC. (This may or may not be true in IN, and I have no plans to say either way unless someone just -HAS- to have a canon answer, since it's a "canon worms" in many ways.) [* Remember, boys and girls and little its, someone sworn to one Word can only have the Band/Choir Attunement for _his_ Band/Choir from any other Superior! If you're a Seraph of Creation, you can't get that nifty Malakite of Lightning attunement unless you swear to Lightning, taking the dissonance conditions thereof (and Rites, etc.) and you'll lose that nifty Malakite of Creation attunement (though you'll keep your Seraph of Creation attunement).] At 3:52 PM +1000 5/22/00, Leath Sheales wrote: >As a side note, this will actually be happening in my game soon, with a >twist. [...] >Since the 'standard' way of telling if your Superior is gone is to check if >your rites work, no Servitor of Fire has a clue what's going on. OOOOOO, EVIL! I like it. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. But now with a computer desk! Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 14:22:22 -0700 From: "Robert Veneman-Hughes" Subject: RE: IN> In Nomine Dice > Can't speak for everyone, but I can distinguish colors and > shades MUCH more > quickly than pips vs. numbers. > S'true. Besides, I think that having them all have one method of numerals and contrasting colors would be prettier... As a friend of mine says, aesthetics are everything... - -Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 03:23:16 -0700 From: "Robert Veneman-Hughes" Subject: RE: IN> Words for all! > Does anyone actively sell or support Nobilis? I developed an interest > in learning more about it but can't find it. The web site that > everyone points to doesn't mention it any more. > > > -- > Eric Alfred Burns - > > Habbalite of Belaboring the Point Yes... Nobilis was enough of a success as a small press book that it was bought by Hogshead last month. They are revising and reprinting it - Second Edition is out, as I understand it, in August. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 07:14:49 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> In Nomine on Ebay... Some... perhaps not as bright-as-could-be person... is selling a couple of You Are Heres and a main book on ebay (do a search for In Nomine -- he's also selling 23 pages of other stuff!). Thing that makes this none too useful is that if you get them for his minimum bid, the shipping and handling equals only about a dollar or so below list price... Still, if you need the main book, or want a slightly cheaper YAH, there weren't any bids on those as of 7am today. YAHs http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=337591799 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=337594657 Main book (currently OOP) http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=337594001 (Maybe you can send this guy an offer of a lower-than-minimum bid if no one else bids on the stuff.) David Pulver is also selling off some IN stuff, at http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=337356521 He's got a package deal of... Angelic Players Guide, Very good condition. Revelations III: Heaven and Hell Liber Canticorum, Very good condition. Liber Servitorum, Excellent condition. Liber Castellorum, Very good condition. Liber Reliquarum, Excellent condition. Infernal Players Guide, a creased upper right corner and a fold on back cover, but binding is otherwise in good condition. As of 7am, the high bid was $51, and "Buyer pays shipping to Canada." - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. But now with a computer desk! Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 09:24:44 -0500 From: Andrew Hackard Subject: Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! Walter wrote: >What about licensing Chessex to do the dice, as was done (I seem to recall) >with the INWO dice set (actually a little package of several things useful >in INWO, include a pair of dice)? The World Domination Kit, yes. I love that title. But my understanding is that the licensing went the other way: Chessex approached *us* because they thought the WDK would be cool. (I'll also note, as an aside, that they just dumped their remaining stock on Warehouse 23, so apparently they didn't sell as well as Chessex had hoped they would.) I'm certain that, in any discussion of doing dice, Chessex would be at the top of the list for bid solicitation. Whether they would be interested, that I can't say. >>You'd have to print them on the dice, not incise them. (Which, actually, is >>almost certainly true of *any* icon we pick; the only one that *might* be >>inciseable is the IN cross, and even that would lose some detail.) > >I thought all modern dice were done with some sort of two-stage injection >process, like keyboard keycaps. Maybe so; I'm not up on dice-printing technology. Though I do know that the individual items are die-cut. (Andrew collects a point of Essence, having successfully completed his Rite of Punnery for the day.) I'd have to look more closely at the eye-in-pyramid dice to see if the symbol is an overlay or actually infused into the face. >Right. I was suspicious about the feather, for that reason. Unless you could >do it in color (Chessex might be able to hack that), it would look kind of >lame, I suspect. The other option would be a sticker. I, personally, wouldn't want to use it, but the printing would cease to be a major issue. >I'd be *very* tempted to use Skreetch Caps numerals, rather than pips. >Lots of dice have pips, how many dice have funky font numerals? I'd >expect that would have some effect on sales to non-INers, just for the >coolness factor. *shrug* I think it sets off the 6 face more if it's the only face with a numeral, but I could be in the minority there. >You might want to check with Ann DuPuis -- she had special dice made for >FUDGE, and I don't think they were all *that* expensive. If we decide to go with it, I'll suggest that to our print buyer. - -- Andrew Hackard /\ "My money and my Promotional Writer /()\ [CENSORED] go to Steve Jackson Games / \ Illuminati University" andrew@sjgames.com /______\ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 10:26:54 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Re: Angels and Religeous Patronage Charles Phipps wrote: > I'm curious if Angels might be working towards to become the Angel > of Reformation and the like (given Lawrence's devotion to > Catholicism and the like-likely such a move was extremely > unpopular in Heaven). Oh, I don't know. Janus would probably support an Angel of Reformation very strongly. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 09:58:16 -0500 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! > (Heck, I cracked a die once. And you don't want to know > what my poor Chaosium 20-siders look like. (Moulting > Marbles...)) Hey! Don't knock the old dice... I still have my old TSR marbles and the d20 rolls great even if it does really look like a marble. I wonder how that d6 rolls? Hmmm... I may have a new check die! The Other David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 11:38:04 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! From: "Elizabeth McCoy" > > Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and > often a wigglebaby in the other). No response of any content here; I just wanted to say that the word "Vapitalization" made me laugh a whole bunch when I read it... ;;;) Vapitalization (verb): The act of making a technological device or technical method more complex, to the point of endangering those who use it. Prodigal Demon of Calling Into Tech Support Without The Product Nearby Knight of Vapitalization ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:21:05 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> Some Advice Please >A game where it's *not* true won't diverge much from canon >-- it's pretty much the status quo, except the ethereals are lying through >their teeth, for the sake of their egos. (Which is what most celestials >believe, anyway.) A game where it is true, and has been known to be true >for a long time, will be *very* non-canon, since it intrinsically makes >the War a three-sided thing, with the ethereal side very weak, and >probably playing the two strong sides against each other. A game where >it has been a matter of belief (God is not an ethereal), and suddenly becomes >a matter of fact (that he is), should send massive political shockwaves >through both celestial camps, and probably massive doubt and angst waves >through the angelic side. Depends very much on the flavour of the particular campaign. After all, it's possible the Ethereals are not 'lying' when they say God is an ethereal but that they actually believe this to be true. Similarly, Celestials are not 'lying' when they say God is not (and never was) an ethereal but are stating their own firmly held belief on the matter. It's the kind of thing that (in game) would be very hard (well, impossible) to prove beyond doubt. In the long run, the 'truth' in game is whatever the GM happens to believe and, if the game were run the way I personally prefer, the GM's belief in this matter would not be apparent to the PCs (and preferably not the players). It all depends how seriously you take your Ethereals (we tend to pump them up to perfectly uncanonical power levels). Canon, after all, is fairly silent on whether or not God exists. And on whether God preceeded Yves, or vice versa. Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:32:41 -0500 From: Uncle Wolf Subject: Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! Andrew Hackard wrote: [snippage of stuff I mostly agree with] > All the dice will have the same faces. These will be: > > 1: the IN cross (or the burning feather, though I doubt it'll look > good that small) suggestion on this: use a cross-hilted sword as the one -- you know, the sort of sword that, when turned point down, can be used as a cross, the way that Etienne Navvarre [sp? Rutger Hauer was the actor] did in "Ladyhawke" while waiting to hear if Isabeau had survived the journey to the monk. This design would work as a cross, have cross-marketability to non-IN gamers, and makes a neat double entendre reference to Laurence, Archangel of the Sword, Commander of the Heavenly Host. And it does this all in one fell swoop. Neato, eh? > 2-5: pips > 6: a suitably demonic-looking *numeral* I like the idea, first brought up by someone else [memory fails me] of a horned snake coiling around into the shape of a six. Or, alternatively, the hell-sigil could be a trident, inspiring demons to quip: stick a [pitch]fork in him, he is *so* done. Or you could use a spatulate-tail, a traditional demon's tail, curled into the shape of a 6, with the pointy end inwards, and the end that connects to the demon's b**tbone leading away towards the edge of the die, forming the six's vertically ascending 'tail'. Since the rest of the demon is off-die, it can easily be crossmarketed as a dragon-tail six die, with the sword of the dragon-slayer opposing it on the 1-face of the die. And since Lucifer is referred to in traditional Christian lore as "that old dragon, Satan", and Michael, in this same lore, is usually portrayed as wielding a divinely sharp sword... [small snip] > Further, the iconography isn't so IN-specific that other gamers won't pick > these up for the coolness factor. And hey, if they REALLY like the dice, > maybe they'll look into the game as well . . . The sword and trident are both weapons that can be used in [insert name of generic fantasy RPG], so these dice could also be cross-marketed, as Andrew mentions above. Off Topic comment: In traditional Christian lore, Michael is portrayed as a sword-wielder -- does Laurence ever get ticked that, even when he does the work, Michael gets the credit? Tom Timberlake, Servitor of the Angel of Just-In-Case-The-Doctors-Missed-Anything Chemotherapy - -- "We are not always what we seem, and hardly ever what we dream." -Schmendrick Peter S. Beagle's "The Last Unicorn" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:42:25 -0700 From: "Matthew W." Subject: Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! << Exactly. The trick would be to have the dice look entertaining enough that people really wanted to know what game they were designed for -- but if their bump of curiosity was soft, they'd buy the dice anyway. (Move that stock, moveitout!) >> If you want that, go for the demonic six and the angelic one still. Pips with little things printed on them dice is not something even I would buy (and I *play* In Nomine). If I saw the Balseraph Face and Halo pip dice, I'd shrug and not pay for them. The neatness factor is completely lost. = Mathus = = Demon of Rants = = ArchRival of Timothy = ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:48:22 -0500 From: Andrew Hackard Subject: Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! >> 1: the IN cross (or the burning feather, though I doubt it'll look >> good that small) > >suggestion on this: use a cross-hilted sword as the one -- you know, the >sort of sword that, when turned point down, can be used as a cross, And when it's reduced to the size of a die face, it will look exactly like any other sword. (Or any other cross, depending on how big the hilt is.) It's a neat idea, but it will lose too many details. I'd still MUCH rather use an image that already has precedent in IN canon -- and the IN cross fits the bill perfectly. >> 6: a suitably demonic-looking *numeral* > >I like the idea, first brought up by someone else [memory fails me] of a >horned snake coiling around into the shape of a six. I suspect that this may be what we go with, if the dice get made. >Or, alternatively, >the hell-sigil could be a trident, Nyet. No precedent in IN canon. >Or you could use a spatulate-tail, >a traditional demon's tail, curled into the shape of a 6, I like this idea. If it comes up, I'll present this as an option. - -- Andrew Hackard /\ "My money and my Promotional Writer /()\ [CENSORED] go to Steve Jackson Games / \ Illuminati University" andrew@sjgames.com /______\ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 14:21:19 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! From: "Uncle Wolf" > > Or you could use a spatulate-tail, > a traditional demon's tail, curled into the shape of a 6, with the > pointy end inwards, Or you could have an otherwise normal 6 sporting a demon tail... *g* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 15:25:46 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! Prodigal wrote: > Or you could have an otherwise normal 6 sporting a demon tail... That might be easier to distinguish, at the size of a die-face, than a little-bitty serpent curled into a 6. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 12:57:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Eli the Muse? - --- Charles Phipps wrote: > Well if you don't mind someone stepping into the debate new here...my > take on it is that Jean and Eli both advocate a great deal of > creation....but they are hardly the only ones. > > Theoretically everyone from Lawrence to Novalis could inspire > invention that would advocate their words but it's only that Jean and > Eli are likely best at it. Agreed. In fact, every Word-bound probably needs to do some Musing at some point just as part of promoting their Word. > I play Eli as constantly working by "hanging out" amongst the > humans to create and it doesn't matter exactly what people are > creating (though for the most part he doesn't get in labratories etc > too much-he prefers to deal with scientists and such in a relaxed > enviornment like a pub). Too busy to "hang" with his buds in > heaven....(kinda clueless how unpopular he is...or is he?) > Eli doesn't really care as long as he's creating stuff to help > mankind...he never helps create stuff that's evil (the Prodject > excluded and his darkest music comes from that time) and never really > asks permisson of his fellow Archangels to interfere in their > prodjects. He also leaves after people are mused when their > down...Yves is to see it safely utilized and Dominic is to test crash > it....at least according to the Big E. Everyone else is to put it in > it's "proper place" > > Thus I see archangels Jean as constantly working through her angels > of Computers (who has assistants in angels of Software, Hardware, Net > Acess, Disk Drives etc) to improve their system until on occasion > Eli's "muse" walks in with something that renders fiber optic cable > and her entire prodjected product line for 100 years (I see J as an > overachiever) obselete and sets everyone a grumbling. For the most part I agree. I do take issue with the use of the term "interfere," however (though I acknowledge that I may have misinterpreted the intent). I doubt that Eli *consciously* interferes in the affairs of other Archangels (Demon Princes are another matter). It is possible that he adds his little touches to other Superiors' projects seemingly at random -- and certainly without permission -- with little thought to the long-term consequences, but I wouldn't see this as intentionally trying to mess up somebody else's Word (which is what interfering in another Superior's Word-promotion amounts to). ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Time is the best teacher. Unfortunately, it kills all of its students." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:00:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Gabrielle's judgement - --- Charles Phipps wrote: > However a question does bother me that no doubt has come up extremely > much before? Can't Dominic as a Seraph just tell if Gabrielle is > lying through her teeth? Or is she refusing the trial completely and > reacting with suitable um.....anger? According to the GM's guide, Superiors can shield themselves from angelic Resonances to some degree, especially where the direct intervention of God or Lucifer has occured. They are also covered by divine ineffability to some extent. These two factors could have combined to prevent Dominic from using his Resonance in this case. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Time is the best teacher. Unfortunately, it kills all of its students." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:02:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Age and Words - --- Charles Phipps wrote: > Out of curiousity how old do you allow your players to begin as > angels.....this is pointful because one of my players wish to begin > as an angel born in the 12th century, another in the 1960s, and > another as one of the angels directly of the fall but who keeps > forgetting his powers.... > > Which brings me to my next question-do you allow players to begin > with words? I don't quibble about the age of my players' IN PC's; I'm more concerned with good background. As for Words, I make them earn those. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Time is the best teacher. Unfortunately, it kills all of its students." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:18:36 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> Words for all! From: David Edelstein > Whistling in the Dark wrote: > > Does anyone actively sell or support Nobilis? I developed an interest > > in learning more about it but can't find it. The web site that > > everyone points to doesn't mention it any more. > > They just changed publishers, to Hogshead. The author, as I'm sure you > know, is R. Sean Borgstrom (who happens to be my coauthor on the EPG). rsb's done some of the epg? ooooooh... nobilis changing to hogshead is an Officially Good Thing as far as i'm concerned, as it'll hopefully mean it;ll actually be in shops over here. i had to order my copy by mail, which isn't exactly cost effective > Sooner or later, I'll get around to posting my In Nomine/Nobilis > conversions. cool. post 'em now and i'll give you all my Spirit MPs :) liam (Vodka's-Regal) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:05:45 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Words for all! Liam Astley wrote: > rsb's done some of the epg? ooooooh... A little over half of it, actually. > cool. post 'em now and i'll give you all my Spirit MPs :) Well, since I just turned in the edited draft of Superiors 4, maybe I will have some time to update my website a little. - -David (http://www.amadan.org) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 21:12:00 -0500 From: "Kiara S. Legner" Subject: Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! >>Hey! Don't knock the old dice... I still have my old TSR marbles and the d20 rolls great even if it does really look like a marble. I wonder how that d6 rolls? Hmmm... I may have a new check die!<<< No. It's chipped. And I just saw you practice rolling the other one this morning. It only rolls 4's, 5's, and 6's. No, no, and No. The Other David's GM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 23:16:03 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! At 9:12 PM -0500 5/23/00, Kiara S. Legner wrote: >>>Hey! Don't knock the old dice... I still have my old TSR marbles and the >d20 >rolls great even if it does really look like a marble. I wonder how that d6 >rolls? Hmmm... I may have a new check die!<<< > >No. It's chipped. And I just saw you practice rolling the other one this >morning. It only rolls 4's, 5's, and 6's. No, no, and No. > >The Other David's GM If you haven't already gotten it, I hereby grant you the Master of the Armies of God Distinction. Wear it in good health. (The other trick is to make sure that he's playing an angelic character, and stick him with dice that _also_ only roll 4's, 5's, and 6's...) - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. But now with a computer desk! Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 00:51:41 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Some Advice Please At 13:21 -0400 5/23/00, Omentide wrote: >>A game where it's *not* true won't diverge much from canon >>-- it's pretty much the status quo, except the ethereals are lying through >>their teeth, for the sake of their egos. (Which is what most celestials >>believe, anyway.) A game where it is true, and has been known to be true >>for a long time, will be *very* non-canon, since it intrinsically makes >>the War a three-sided thing, with the ethereal side very weak, and >>probably playing the two strong sides against each other. A game where >>it has been a matter of belief (God is not an ethereal), and suddenly becomes >>a matter of fact (that he is), should send massive political shockwaves >>through both celestial camps, and probably massive doubt and angst waves >>through the angelic side. > >Depends very much on the flavour of the particular campaign. After all, >it's possible the Ethereals are not 'lying' when they say God is an >ethereal but that they actually believe this to be true. Similarly, >Celestials are not 'lying' when they say God is not (and never was) an >ethereal but are stating their own firmly held belief on the matter. Certainly celestials are stating a belief, not a fact, in canon. I was assuming the older ethereals really did remember back far enough to know whether God was once Yahweh (the ethereal) or not. If their memories are fallible enough, maybe not, and it's also likely that there are few, if any, extant ethereals who were Yahweh's contemporaries. At that point it degenerates to belief, and not knowledge. >It's the kind of thing that (in game) would be very hard (well, impossible) >to prove beyond doubt. But an ethereal pulling the "Yahweh trick" would be pretty hard evidence -- it's not something that's really compatible with ethereal capabilities in canon. (Though creating a Domain isn't far off, I suppose....) >In the long run, the 'truth' in game is whatever the GM happens to believe >and, if the game were run the way I personally prefer, the GM's belief in >this matter would not be apparent to the PCs (and preferably not the >players). It all depends how seriously you take your Ethereals (we tend to >pump them up to perfectly uncanonical power levels). True, but having a new realm suddenly appear would be a real shocker; it's less of a shock if it's just another fragment of an existing realm (like Hell is of the celestial). The three realms have been around since the beginning of time, more or less, according to angelic history. It's hard to see a new one not being a real shock in the meta-cosmology. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 00:57:27 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! At 14:48 -0400 5/23/00, Andrew Hackard wrote: >>Or you could use a spatulate-tail, >>a traditional demon's tail, curled into the shape of a 6, > >I like this idea. If it comes up, I'll present this as an option. And it's already part of the Lilim Band symbol (though you'd have to mirror-reflect it, and close the loop a little more). That comes out fairly well in the jewelry, which isn't much larger than it would be on a die. (On the other hand, metal takes detail better than plastic, I'll bet.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:20:13 -0700 From: Ryan Elias Subject: Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! Walter Milliken wrote: >>a traditional demon's tail, curled into the shape of a 6, > > > >I like this idea. If it comes up, I'll present this as an option. > > And it's already part of the Lilim Band symbol Really? Hm. I'd always thought that was a hook (you know. A heart with a hook through it. That's Geases, in'it?) A tail, though. This bears further consideration... Cheers, -Ryan, deep in thought ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 00:13:36 -0700 (PDT) From: "O. S. Kerr" Subject: Re: IN> Losing Superiors > > 4: They continue to support the word that they had served, > > until they are forgotten, destroyed, etc. (One of > > Lucifer's servitors pre-Fall still cares for the > > Cathedral of Light). > > That sounds like a very, very lonely job. Nah. Yves shows up every now and again, looking around and smiling... and Dominic has been know to spend a long afternoon there, staring out the windows at passers-by. He probably has a Cherub attuned to the last Servitor of Light, just in case... O. ===== ** Lead Playtester for Storyteller: The Colon ** ** I minored in behavioral psychology. Tragic irony and human suffering are just hobbies. ** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 00:28:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "O. S. Kerr" Subject: IN> Words for Humans. Not! > > What are the canon implications of a human getting a word? > > > If you go from one Word-bound human (Lilith) to two (Lilith > and the PC), that's an event of major significance in the > Symphony, and should have all kinds of political fallout. If you've ever studied astronomy, you may be familiar with the idea already: Unique or Ubiquitous. If there's only one example of X, then X is the only X there is. If you ever find another X someplace else, then there are gonna be X's all over the place. The common example is Saturn's rings. At one point, we thought that Saturn had an unique feature. Then a flyby of Jupiter showed little rings. The books all changed to say "all gas giants have rings." Recent looks at Neptune and Uranus? Yup, they have rings, too. So, if you give Joe Shlobotnik the Word of Obscure Comic Baseball References, then *every* human can have a Word. Bad Idea. O. ===== ** Lead Playtester for Storyteller: The Colon ** ** I minored in behavioral psychology. Tragic irony and human suffering are just hobbies. ** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 01:28:45 -0700 (PDT) From: "O. S. Kerr" Subject: Re: IN> Humans and words > A:) A human with a word is not entirely unheard of in > Catholicism as Saint Christopher is the Patron Saint of > Travellers and George Patron Saint of England... and among > other things...Dragon Slaying. Christopher, Saint in service to Janus, directly serving an Ofanim with the Word of Travel. Or a Mercurian with the Word of Travellers. George, Saint in service to David, liason between two Servitors of National Identity (England and Greece). Formerly a Saint of Uriel during the Purification Crusade. > My guess is that Saints are able to "aid" word bearers in a > great deal of matters. Sure. Any blessed soul, able to return to the Corporeal realm, fully human and mortal in nature, with full knowledge of Songs, most likely some Servitor Attunements, and awareness of the War, would be a boon to any cause. "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine." O. ===== ** Lead Playtester for Storyteller: The Colon ** ** I minored in behavioral psychology. Tragic irony and human suffering are just hobbies. ** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 06:19:05 -0500 From: "Kiara S. Legner" Subject: Re: IN> IN Dice - reroll! >> If you haven't already gotten it, I hereby grant you the Master of the Armies of God Distinction. Wear it in good health.<< Oooh... My thanks, ArchAngel. >>(The other trick is to make sure that he's playing an angelic character, and stick him with dice that _also_ only roll 4's, 5's, and 6's...)<< (Yup, but he's running a non-canon choir and his resonance is *fun* to mislead, erm, mess with...) Ki (They're trying to get me to go Bright, aren't they?) Master of the Armies of God Rites: Removing Rich Text (Angel of Removing HTML From Outlook Express) ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1641 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.