From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue May 30 21:32:50 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA28184 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 21:32:49 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id VAA07284 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 30 May 2000 21:29:46 -0500 Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 21:29:46 -0500 Message-Id: <200005310229.VAA07284@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1650 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, May 30 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1650 In this digest: Re: IN> Pentagrams (was: In Nomine Dice) Re: IN> Love amongst superiors Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine IN> [ADMIN] Take it to email! (Re: Religion in In Nomine) Re: IN> Love amongst Superiors Re: IN> Celestial physics expertize required... Re: IN> Pentagrams (was: In Nomine Dice) Re: IN> Celestial physics expertize required... Re: IN> Another Silly Thing Re: IN> Another Silly Thing Re: IN> Live Gaming (was: LRP in England) Re: IN> Re: Celestial physics expertize required... Re: IN> Re: Celestial physics expertize required... Re: IN> Another Silly Thing Re: IN> Another Silly Thing Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine Re: IN> Live Gaming (was: LRP in England) IN> Invoking God IN> The Mythological Underground IN> Eli & Dominic (WAS: Another Silly Thing) Re: IN> The Mythological Underground Re: IN> Live Gaming (was: LRP in England) Re: IN> Live Gaming (was: LRP in England) Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine (Who plays?) Re: IN> Another Silly Thing IN> Long live the Revolution! Re: IN> Another Silly Thing Re: IN> Another Silly Thing Re: IN> Another Silly Thing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 12:40:02 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> Pentagrams (was: In Nomine Dice) From: Emily Dresner > ( In Nomine always needed two things: > A. Wacky secret societies pretending to be the Priory of Zion > B. Wacky occult conspiracies > But, alas, I must go to my local bookstore for these things.) i just made mine up. i had too bunches of nutters running around in my game, but neither really got the chance to rear it's ugly little head before the camapign folded. i had the Mimirim, a group of grey-area sorcerers sponsored by raziel, archangel of secrets, and the 8th Army, a terrorist organisation of crackpot soldiers of hell who thought they were children of the grigori liam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 12:45:46 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> Love amongst superiors From: Charles Phipps > True but I imagined God was always waiting for the right woman.... > sophia? gnostic liam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 08:30:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine > I can't get *any* of my Chistian friends to play IN with me, so > my entire group is a bunch of pagans. The Christians get a bit > squidgy at the canon that only two AAs are Christian... > > What does that say about "most Christians" and "only pagans?" That tells me you're playing with the wrong group. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 09:51:18 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> [ADMIN] Take it to email! (Re: Religion in In Nomine) At 12:34 AM -0500 5/29/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Keep it in private (like last time), and so will I. If you choose to do >it in public....well, it won't bother ME, though it will probably bother >everyone else. Like me. So let's just kill the subject dead before it torns into an off-topic flame war and makes me start u-n-s-u-b-b-i-n-g people wholesale who get involbved. (That is, BTW, my tactic. I don't care how well-thought-out something is, or if I even agree -- I'm going to do my best to identify anyone contributing to an annoying flaming off-topic thread and kick them off. Groveling to come back on is suggested; groveling does tend to cheer me. Must be my Princess aspect.) I'll deal with religious slams or perceived religious slams in private email, because the "welcome to the list" message _does_ forbid such things. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. But now with a computer desk! Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 10:09:38 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Love amongst Superiors At 2:26 PM -0400 5/29/00, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >I don't remember author or location, but it *wasn't* Derek Pearcy, I >don't think. It lacked bite, though it was good. It was Derek. I think it was on this list, too, but I can't remember a good keyword to search by. O:< Ah, thank goodness I keep _everything_. I can search my own records. http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/tiny.problem.html - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. But now with a computer desk! Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 10:09:36 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Celestial physics expertize required... At 11:12 AM +0100 5/29/00, Laurent wrote: > >*** AA Beth wrote: *** >> Shedite Seneschals who have their own mainframe (and _aren't_ using >> a relic version -- just _have_ one 'cause they're Seneschals there) are >> evil and icky and generally have control over the environmental system >ooooh that's good. I love it!! gimme more. Talk to Walter -- we haven't finished infiltrating it yet. (Infiltrating demonic Tethers is a fun useof a Geased dark Lilim, oh yes it is.) >> And they have Force Catchers, Vapulans do. Loads of Force Catchers. >> I mean, they just hates little Kyrios of Lightning, and they _know_ what >> the blessed little buggers can do, soooooo..... > hehehe >I'm gonna have so much fun... If you don't have the Liber Castellorum, you might want to pick it up -- it has a chapter on Tether defenses, and IIRC, includes some specialized against Jeanites. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. But now with a computer desk! Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 10:12:56 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Pentagrams (was: In Nomine Dice) At 9:27 PM -0400 5/29/00, Emily Dresner wrote: [...] >But, ya know, I ain't the Line Editor. I don't call that shot. Hey, I don't call all those shots either -- talk to the owner of the company. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 15:19:35 +0100 From: "Laurent" Subject: Re: IN> Celestial physics expertize required... Beth wrote: > If you don't have the Liber Castellorum, you might want to pick it up -- > it has a chapter on Tether defenses, and IIRC, includes some specialized > against Jeanites. - -> Beth is using her LE special attunment to make me buy the book. (feels a bit like Habbalah resonance to me...) I'll try to resist with a Will roll... - -> 666. AARGH!!! I HAVE to get this book!! Seriously, I want to buy the CPG, the Liber Castellorum and Heaven&Hell. I'm just waiting for some money to spare. Now Beth, stop reading this email right now. The following is for everyone else: What do you guys think of these 3 books? Any good/bad comments? Thanks. Laurent. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 07:38:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Another Silly Thing Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 05:28:07 -0500From: "Ben Chism" Subject: Re: IN> Another Silly Thing> >> Looks good, with one quibble:> >>> Word Forces: 9 >> *Nine* Word Forces? For *Soap Operas*? That seems a >>bit extreme, unless you're postulating that the >>soaps have heaps of influence over themajority >> of the people of the world... I'd scale this back >>to 4-5, m'self. ;) >Are you kidding? you know how many people live and >breath for their soapoperas? >I've heard people talking about characters on a show >and thought they were talking about someone they >knew! I swear, it's almost as bad as Talk Shows I was surprised too, when I looked up the Word-Force Levels in the GMG: I was expecting it to be much lower. However, the darn things are everywhere: I _know_ that Australia, Mexico, England and most of South America has their own, and I'm pretty sure that other countries do too. Millions of people watch them, and they're subtly addictive (I nearly got hooked when the guy who played Q did a short story arc on some soap: he finished up, and it took me a week to notice that I was still watching the show). :) >...but I would never have thought of an ANGEL of >soap operas myself.....*G* Yeah, well, the poor things get a lot of flack. It isn't easy to write and produce the equivalent of two full length movies a week, week after week with no downtime, while trying to keep to a minimum standard of quality. The actors and actresses have all the disadvantages of stage actors, _without_ the advantage of only having to memorize _one_ script. All in all, this genre is _begging_ for Divine protection, and seeing as Eli's out to lunch... :) >I do love the fact she is a redeemed demon. Gives her a suitably dark (and hidden) past, that will no doubt be revealed next sweeps month. ;) Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of May I Have the Envelope, Please? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 07:47:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Another Silly Thing Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 00:58:29 -0500From: "Tafka J." Subject: Re: IN> Another Silly Thing At 10:36 PM -0700 05/29/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >>I just whipped this up, so it needs polishing. I >>think she's kinda cute, though. :) >Nice! Just one problem though. . . >>Ofanim of Destiny . . . _Ofanite_ of Destiny. Doh! Penalties of writing at 1 AM. Oops... BTW, I agree that _Soapdish_ is a good resource for this sort of thing: in fact, I was thinking of it when I had the entire soap opera motiff thing going. Actually, I was wondering about possible Superior romances*, and using soaps seemed to model better than anything else... ;) Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of And Now, A Word From Our Sponsor *Is it just me, or does Dominque's little feud with Eli have a certain ... shall we say, "woman scorned" ... quality to it? YMMV, of course. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:10:43 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Live Gaming (was: LRP in England) At 11:42 AM +0100 5/30/00, Liam Astley wrote: - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. But now with a computer desk! Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:56:25 -0400 From: "Galen G. Silversmith" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Celestial physics expertize required... > > At this point, I can as well ask you guys for advice: I need > > a Vapulan Tether in > > Washington. > Canonically, the NSA Headquarters just outside the city (in Fort Meade, VA) > is a Vapulan tether. Which I always thought as weird. The NSA is more of an information storehouse (Kronos/Yves) or part of the game, than it is technology, IMO. Other (better) options include the Naval Surface Weapon Center, nearby in Maryland, one of NIH's Institutes (National Cancer Institute, National heart Long and Blood Institute, National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases, Nation Institute of Environmental Health Sciences or National Center for Research Resources), Bethesda Naval Medical Center, National Science Foundation, National Academy of Science, or another of other things closer related to technology than the NSA. Admittedly this is a little late to the thread... Sorry about the time lapse. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:59:41 -0400 From: "EDG" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Celestial physics expertize required... > ... one of NIH's Institutes ... You've missed the one I think would be /perfect/ for a Vapulan stronghold (not solely because of the popular version of its practices) - NIMH. The National Institute for Mental Health. (I worked for them for a brief time. While I don't think they're /really/ engineering intelligent rats, I wouldn't be surprised if they were.) - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:07:17 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Another Silly Thing Maurice Lane wrote: > I was surprised too, when I looked up the Word-Force > Levels in the GMG: I was expecting it to be much > lower. However, the darn things are everywhere: I > _know_ that Australia, Mexico, England and most of > South America has their own, and I'm pretty sure that > other countries do too. EVERY country has them. (Every country that has TV, anyway.) However, it takes more than being ubiquitous to be an important Word. It also has to have a significant impact on a lot of peoples' lives. Now, it's true that there are a lot of soap addicts, but I don't think the world as we know it would drastically change if soaps all disappeared. You'd just have some disgruntled, more bored housewives. ;) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:06:16 -0400 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> Another Silly Thing David Edelstein wrote: > EVERY country has them. (Every country that has TV, anyway.) However, it > takes more than being ubiquitous to be an important Word. It also has to > have a significant impact on a lot of peoples' lives. Now, it's true > that there are a lot of soap addicts, but I don't think the world as we > know it would drastically change if soaps all disappeared. You'd just > have some disgruntled, more bored housewives. ;) Does that mean they'd get guns and start shooting up the place? Will the Demon of Disgruntled Houswives get a Word? =) - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 12:06:31 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine > > I can't get *any* of my Chistian friends to play IN with me, so > > my entire group is a bunch of pagans. The Christians get a bit > > squidgy at the canon that only two AAs are Christian... > > > > What does that say about "most Christians" and "only pagans?" > > That tells me you're playing with the wrong group. Ayep. My group is comprised of a Christian, an agnostic, and a slew of atheists, any of whom could take offense at In Nomine if they felt the urge to do so. Rite: Kill an atheist. And nothing is quite as much fun as seeing them try to explain to people that A> God and angels are real and B> they are the good guys. Yippee! > - Em Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:21:30 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine ben wrote: > Ayep. My group is comprised of a Christian, an agnostic, and a slew of > atheists, any of whom could take offense at In Nomine if they felt the urge > to do so. I'm an atheist, and I prefer to play In Nomine straight -- i.e., God is GOD, demons are scum, and everyone else is a piker. Since I've been accused of bashing pagans, let me say that I've also heard of atheists who refuse to play In Nomine, or will only play if the supremacy and benevolence of God is CDaU, or negated outright. And I think that's really stupid too.* It's a FANTASY game. Sheesh. > Rite: Kill an atheist. I changed that in Khalid's updated writeup. Not because it offended me as an atheist, but because the original writeup of Khalid, Archangel of Raghead Truckbombers, was an offensive portrayal of Muslims. - -David * Yes, I am intolerant. I'm intolerant of idiots and whiners, and idiocy and whining is non-denominational ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 19:55:39 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> Live Gaming (was: LRP in England) From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Live Gaming (was: LRP in England) > > > > hmm, i was about to put in a very cogent and relevant comment on In Nomine at the end, but my hand slipped on the "send" button. honest. well, maybe not, but it was a discussion in regards to possible IN LRPs. sorry if it went a bit off-course... liam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:26:43 -0700 From: tcp@zoomnet.net Subject: IN> Invoking God >Whistling looks around his apartment. He fails to see >said Superior's entrance. "Hm. Blown die roll." He moves >on to the next >message.] "Hey dude"-Eli >The message implied by the above should be self evident. >Have a good day and enjoy the bon bons. Okay. - -Charles Phipps The message implied by this is evident if you look at it upside down and sideways. - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:46:50 -0700 From: tcp@zoomnet.net Subject: IN> The Mythological Underground > >Check out the Angel of the Dragon Court on my In Nomine >page. He (and his "Dragon Court") are my campaign's take >on this idea. > I'll be sure to when I get the chance. Re: Unicorns >Obviously? The original unicorn was a pagan symbol of >sexuality (and sometimes rape). They could be >bloodthirsty. It wasn't untill well into the age of >Christianity that they got an image remake as gentle and >loving Christ symbols. Freud I guess had something to say in this Phallic interpretation of the unicorn I supsect hehhe. Then Jung parted his ways and freud went back to smoking. Methinks Baladine and a Balseraph of Beleth had something to do with all of this. Hmmmmmmm. >Modern Unicorrns would probably be smuggled through. Some >of them are on the Dragon Court's list for official >rerelease to Earth (in my campaign). Counterpoint though is that would there really still exist a mythological underground given that Uriel is now sitting in the Far corner of Heaven (in my opinion) of God's realm for the next few thousand years til he learns his lesson (no dinner for him either)? Especially to pick up modern unicorns? Still counterpoint unicorns by their legend have always been nuturing creatures-the first unicorn Almathea (who was a goat admittadly) nutured selflessly the Baby Zeus when he was hiding out. Re: Dragons >And worshipped as gods. And destructive and violent (they >brought earthquakes, tidal waves and typhoons, too). >Perhaps not. The worshipped as Gods part is iffy in my opinion as one wonders in the midst of when Uriel was sticking his broadsword through Hades that those who truly cared about his massacres cared one way or another whether a figure was worshipped or not. Or the people who were rescuing those terrified of him cared about past... War is an iffy prospect...like vietnam it's hard to tell the civilians from the enemy when your invading unknown territory. In any case Jordi might argue that they and other mythological beasts were just performing their function as animals. Abeit animals of the Ethereal realms but heaven has it's bunnies and doves, does anyone think of massacring them? hehe I can imagine Domonic's response. "Doves and bunnies don't flatten houses." Re: Muses >Really? Why? They *were* pagan gods, stealing the Essence >of the Most High from Heaven. Yes however a number of Angels might argue also that Re: >Valkyries? They served Odin directly, and chose the souls >of valiant warriors to fight in Valhalla. In In Nomine >terms, they took (stole?) the souls of the deceased into >the Ethereal realms instead of allowing them to go to >Heaven or Hell or reincarnate. Stealing is a relative term here as any angel of free will might argue that humanity has chosen the path that they have and it is wrong for them to do anything other than direct the spirits as best they can. Like I said...however since the Valkyries are the equivalent of Malakites-few would take refuge amongst the Enemy. One would as soon expect a servitor of Dominic to take refuge in the Marches if Heaven fell. >A Malakite might respect their dedication and honor, but >they still serve false gods... False Gods who represent a need humanity has to be resolved...one that cannot be resolved with fire. Gabrielle: Wanna bet? >It's hard to say. If you start looking at mythological >beings (Ethereal spirits), few of them are really the kind >of things Heaven would want to associate with. True but again one has to wonder exactly when it became okay to attack the Dreams of humanity and reshape what they have created just because it offends someone in Heaven. Legitamate concerns... (see why a trial for heresay from Dominic is in order for my seraph-despite that just a few years ago he did his best to promote against superstition? and would normally?) >Ethereals created or reshaped by modern interpretations >would be best. Modern unicorns, gargoyles, some fairies, >and so forth would be a good place to start. Yes though the question remains if there would be a need for modern Ethereals...unless Michael takes his buds down to go Big Game Hunting every few weeks. "I gunna catch me a Dragon!" >If you're running anything near a canonical campaign, >there are no real pagan heavens or hells. There's just >Ethereal domains, which some Ethereal worshippers can go >to at death. As a Conservative Christian Minister yep I'm pretty sure the Ethereals unlike Heaven are all linked as one...but the Ethereal domains are similar enough it's okay to call them that in my mind. >Even if you're not, why would a Seraph convince them that >God is love? Why would the Seraph even talk to them? >Another of God's attributes is wrath, after all. And by >rejecting God even after death, to "whore after >false gods", they have earned His wrath. And to quote in the words of Isaiah to the Malakim about to destroy them.... "Then you have no idea who God is...his is a generousness and forgiveness that is everlasting. To deny even the fallen and forsaken...especially they his merciful hand, his truth, his love is to reject all Heaven stands for! These are not for you Warrior! If any Purity you stand for!" (Can we say Novalis Seraph?) >In my campaign, the Dragon Court smuggled them into the >Corporeal realm. Cool. >Incidentally, who says that they need to be released on >Earth? They could be released on other worlds, where they >can grow and develop without attracting the wrath of >Heaven or Hell (because they are not really players in the >War). That's true though I wonder if Jordi wanted a few in his little realm. - -Charlemagne - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 16:02:54 -0500 From: "Tafka J." Subject: IN> Eli & Dominic (WAS: Another Silly Thing) At 7:47 AM -0700 05/30/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >*Is it just me, or does Dominque's little feud with >Eli have a certain ... shall we say, "woman scorned" >... quality to it? No, it's just not you. However, we've already got that sort of thing going on between Michael, Laurence and Dominic. I do believe it's one of the stories Em wrote, and is available _somewhere_. It might even be on the Fiat Site. . . ('Course, I could be miss-remembering who wrote what.) Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = tafkaj@thrifty.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 16:14:28 -0500 From: "Tafka J." Subject: Re: IN> The Mythological Underground At 1:46 PM -0700 05/30/00, tcp@zoomnet.net wrote: >Re: Unicorns It's like I said before. Uriel got recalled for killing the Unicorns. Because God is a Unicorn, and Lucifer is a Serpent. . . Hrmn, now this _does_ sound vaugely familiar somehow. . . Lemme go ask Random, and see if he still has Old Scratch's Eye or not. . . Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = tafkaj@thrifty.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:26:42 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Live Gaming (was: LRP in England) At 7:55 PM +0100 5/30/00, Liam Astley wrote: >From: Elizabeth McCoy >Subject: Re: IN> Live Gaming (was: LRP in England) >> >> >> >> > >hmm, i was about to put in a very cogent and relevant comment on In Nomine >at the end, but my hand slipped on the "send" button. honest. > >well, maybe not, but it was a discussion in regards to possible IN LRPs. >sorry if it went a bit off-course... If you talk about the difficulties inherant in doing IN LARPing, then that's still on-topic -- but generic larping combat discussions aren't. Sorry 'bout that. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap. But now with a computer desk! Vapitalizatoin and spelling still difficult, typing w/ 1 hand (and often a wigglebaby in the other). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 08:15:29 -0700 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> Live Gaming (was: LRP in England) Liam Astley wrote: > i guess i have the advantage of playing with people who know how to use the > weapons without hurting themselves. obviously this wouldn't be a universal > situation Absolutely not. And my intention with the IN LARP rules (as well as these SR rules, which I'm going to stop discussing) is that _everyone_ should be able to play, not just people with a background in weapons use. > yep. if you're not any good at swordfighting, neither's your character. the > main way "skill" is represented is to allow characters to do more damage > with a weapon the higher their level at it. but if you don't know which end > of the sword to hold, don't be a swordfighter Why not? I can do that in tabletop. More to the point, why take combat as being the only exclusionary thing? Would you forbid a very emotional person from playing an Elohite? A person who had trouble telling convinving lies from playing a Balseraph? If not, then why stop them from playing a Malakite of the Sword, despite the fact that they aren't familiar with fighting? > the general consensus among the people i play with would be "tough". Then you instantly lose players. I've met gamers in wheelchairs, with illnesses or debilitating conditions, who use roleplaying as a means of relieving their personal problems. Some of these people LARP as well. Shafting them in favour of someone who knows how to wave a wiffle bat around is plain _mean_. When I write game stuff (which is rare), I generally try to aim at as wide an audience as possible - that way I have a better chance of eventually making money at it. > though > someone with bad eyesight could still play a sharpshooter, as we don't use > nerf guns or anything like that :) Really? Why not? I would have thought that such a thing would be very appropriate for the style of game you describe. (Just an aside - there is _no_ sarcasm in any of my comments here. No personal slams, attacks, or implicatiosn that what you do is wrong. Take all of this at face value, okay?) > the cost is that > it is you doing it, so however much i might want to play a tom > cruise-lookalike at my next game it ain't gonna happen Well, not to the extent that you can _really_ look like Tom Cruise (although maybe you already do - I certainly don't). However, if playing in an IN LARP, your character might be defined as Charismatic or Attractive; it might not have a game effect, but it's stateable. It seems to me that in the games you describe, there's _no_ suspension of disbelief; if something isn't real in the game environment, it doesn't exist. I think that's very limiting. It also means that for something like an IN LARP, where you get a _lot_ of strange effects and powers, you lose the ability to represent these effectively. (Take live combat. Where are the attack Songs, the flaming swords, the Numinous Corpus, the Calabim blast and everything else? Where's the cool?) Abstracting things, on the other hands, allows some SoD. No, you don't have anything being 'real' - but with everything equally 'unreal', it's all equally 'real' as well. Or something. It's too cold to think at the moment. > you can look around at the people you're with and think "he's a > secret agent, she's an assassin, he's a wizard" or whatever and actually > *believe* it to some extent rather than thinking "no they're not, they're a > bunch of weirdos". Kudos to you if you can do that. I've never been able to manage it in my freeform / LARP experience. - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia Stop being so fucking happy! It makes me want to puke twenty years of cigarette tar directly into your mouth! - Spider Jerusalem, TRANSMETROPOLITAN #21 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 18:19:39 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine (Who plays?) In a message dated 5/30/00 2:46:08 AM, ochre24@yahoo.com writes: >> But like I said, most Christian gamers seem to be able to deal >> with this just fine. It's only the pagans that go looking for >> injury. > >I can't get *any* of my Chistian friends to play IN with me, so >my entire group is a bunch of pagans. The Christians get a bit >squidgy at the canon that only two AAs are Christian... > >What does that say about "most Christians" and "only pagans?" > >:) Oddly enough, my group is four Episcopalians, two Mormons, and a Scientologist. The Interfaith Chaplain refuses to play, mainly because she has a very coherent angelology which is in conflict with In Nomine. Those of my close friends who are pagan would rather be playing in the World of Darkness. Mark (This is in the Seattle area, btw....) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:23:14 -0500 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: IN> Another Silly Thing > Maurice Lane wrote: > > I was surprised too, when I looked up the Word-Force > > Levels in the GMG: I was expecting it to be much > > lower. However, the darn things are everywhere: I > > _know_ that Australia, Mexico, England and most of > > South America has their own, and I'm pretty sure that > > other countries do too. > > EVERY country has them. (Every country that has TV, anyway.) However, it > takes more than being ubiquitous to be an important Word. It also has to > have a significant impact on a lot of peoples' lives. Now, it's true > that there are a lot of soap addicts, but I don't think the world as we > know it would drastically change if soaps all disappeared. You'd just > have some disgruntled, more bored housewives. ;) Unless the Celestial version of that Word also encompassed Harlequin Romances, etc. I *could* see the concept being that big but "Soap Opera's" isn't quite the Word I would use for it... Go for "Romantic Fantasy" or something like that, though on second thought that one seems more like a Important Word (11-15 Forces), With 9 WF this places it at the "Significant Word" ranking (7-10 Forces). Upon reading the section again I think it falls pretty easily into Significant category but I would probably place it a 7 or 8 WF. The Other David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 00:23:57 +0100 From: "Christopher Lee" Subject: IN> Long live the Revolution! Hi folks, Pleased to see the list is as busy as ever, definitely the sign of a healthy gaming community! Anyway, I have just come up with an idea for my current campaign (shh, don't tell my players...), I thought I might run it by the list to see the general reaction. I was thinking about Marx the other day (we History teachers have nothing better to do) and I remembered that he said "Religion is the opium of the masses". This set me to thinking. I was also inspired by the Liber Servitorum and its interesting Ethereals. Basically here it is: Marxism (add to that Socialism, Communism, etc) could have formed an Ethereal 'pantheon'. Marx eschewed religion as it was a weapon of the oppressive upper classes used to keep down the proletarian masses, as a means to subjugate them and restrain the process of class consciousness and politicisation. His ideas not mine... Now this takes all your Communists out of the loop for Essence donations to Heaven, or any gods for that matter. However, it cannot be denied that the belief in the theories of Marx ran to deep devotion and fanatiscism among many devotees. One thinks of Che Guevarra, Lenin, Trotsky, Rosa Luxemburg, etc, etc. It is undeniable that throughout the last century many millions placed their faith in Marx rather than God. So what happens to this devotion? I would suggest that instead of just diaspating it actually formed a new Ethereal realm, a Marxist one, receiving Essence from the world's atheist/agnostic socialists. It makes as much sense as the robotic being in the LS, or the Greys, etc. So I have designed a sort of Marxist Ethereal realm, peopled by class warriors and politicised proletarian heroes. The general appearance is a cross between Fritz Lang's Metropolis and the look of 30's political posters, with square-jawed workers struggling to achieve a socialist utopia. Of course, as this is a 'dream' realm the Revolution has produced a benign altrusitic utopia (no Joe Stalin's here). The most powerful spirits are those who believe they are Karl Marx, Frederick Engels, Lenin and Che. They are probably NOT the actual souls of these men, but rather spirits formed around the dreams and hopes attached to them by mortals. So to all intents and purposes they believe they ARE the people they are supposed to be. The Marxist realm does interven in the Earthly plane, creating soldiers of the various 6+ force humans who devote themselves to the cause. Their relations with angels and demons are a bit odd, as they believe that there is no God. Therefore, they suspect ALL other Ethereals and Celestials of being class enemies and agents of the reactionary, bourgeois forces in the universe. They understand that they are a sort of transcendant region, and they believe that therefore the class struggle must continue in the greater universe above Earth. There is no distinction between all other spirits and Celestials. Of course, they are not the power they were. The Soviet Union is gone, the Chinese have essentially become a nationalist oligarchy rather than a Communist state. Thus they are weakening and receding, but still get lots of fervent Essence from many idealistic people the world over, more than that given to many Ethereal gods. What do you think? Chris Lee ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 18:44:31 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Another Silly Thing David Rodemaker wrote: > Unless the Celestial version of that Word also encompassed Harlequin > Romances, etc. I *could* see the concept being that big but "Soap Opera's" > isn't quite the Word I would use for it... Go for "Romantic Fantasy" or > something like that, Yup. You'd need a broader Word if you want to include more than one concept. > though on second thought that one seems more like a > Important Word (11-15 Forces), I could see "Romantic Fantasy" being Important IF the Word-holder is able to expand the scope of his Word to include the literal (as opposed to literary) romantic fantasies that nearly everyone has. If he started out as the Angel of Soap Operas, and got "promoted" to Angel of Romantic Fantasies on the strength of his ability to tie soaps into Harlequin romances and other forms of entertainment media, then I'd say his Word is still somewhat smaller....but it does have plenty of room to expand. (But he'd probably want to be serving Blandine, if he doesn't already.) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 20:31:42 -0500 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: IN> Another Silly Thing > > though on second thought that one seems more like a > > Important Word (11-15 Forces), > > I could see "Romantic Fantasy" being Important IF the Word-holder is > able to expand the scope of his Word to include the literal (as opposed > to literary) romantic fantasies that nearly everyone has. If he started > out as the Angel of Soap Operas, and got "promoted" to Angel of Romantic > Fantasies on the strength of his ability to tie soaps into Harlequin > romances and other forms of entertainment media, then I'd say his Word > is still somewhat smaller....but it does have plenty of room to expand. > (But he'd probably want to be serving Blandine, if he doesn't already.) I think that, depending upon the campaign, you could even make an argument for "Romantic Fantasy" being a Major Word. The problem being that as you get these broader and broader def. of Words the issue gets less and less clear. Also as David E. said it also depends upon who the Word-bearer is serving. As "Romantic Fantasy" could be seen as a sub-Word of Love there are a couple of choices (I agree that Blandine is probably the best though can you imagine Gabriel?) The Important and Major catagories of Words really seem to be a case-by-case matter for the GM. Ie. in Kiara's campaign there is a Servitor of Death who formally held the Word of "Coup de Grace" which was guessed at about a Minor Word, possibly a Significant Word if really, really stretched. In further background development it was decided that the character had been promoted to the Major Word of "Merciful Death" Would everyone else put that Word as Major? Probably not, but within the context of her campaign it makes sense. There is also an angel of "Knives" which has also been defined as a Major Word, but only because it encompasses everything from razor blades to the concept of Okham's Razor. Again it depends upon the campaign. We tend to look at the Celestial version of the Word as being much more fluid than the actual english translation. Rather like Enlish having one word for snow and eskimo having seventy-two (or whatever, I can't remember the actual # just that it is large) Celestial should probably be viewed as the eskimo for *all* these concepts. The Other David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 21:28:10 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Another Silly Thing David Rodemaker wrote: > I think that, depending upon the campaign, you could even make an argument > for "Romantic Fantasy" being a Major Word. I'd be skeptical about that. An Archangel of Romantic Fantasy seems unlikely to me. > The Important and Major catagories of Words really seem to be a case-by-case > matter for the GM. Ie. in Kiara's campaign there is a Servitor of Death who > formally held the Word of "Coup de Grace" which was guessed at about a Minor > Word, possibly a Significant Word if really, really stretched. In further > background development it was decided that the character had been promoted > to the Major Word of "Merciful Death" Would everyone else put that Word as > Major? Probably not, but within the context of her campaign it makes sense. Keep in mind that these categories are NOT "mechanical" in the sense that Word-Forces are. They're convenient labels, but they reflect how many Word-Forces the celestial has acquired, not the other way around. So if someone manages to build up 18 Word-Forces around the Word of Rancid Mayonnaise, well, Rancid Mayonnaise is a Major Word. To do that, though, the Demon of Rancid Mayonnaise would have to make rancid mayonnaise such an important phenomenon that it is crucial to the Symphony. - -David ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1650 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.