From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Jun 5 01:05:41 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA20196 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 01:05:40 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id BAA21526 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 01:04:04 -0500 Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 01:04:04 -0500 Message-Id: <200006050604.BAA21526@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1658 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, June 5 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1658 In this digest: IN> Angel movies IN> Long live the Revolution IN> Freedom in Hell Re: IN> I'll see your Silly Artifact and raise you.. Re: IN> Angel movies Re: IN> Lovecraft In Nomine Re: IN> Angel movies IN> Laurence and Baladine sitting in a tree... Re: IN> I'll see your Silly Artifact and raise you.. Re: IN> Getting into Heaven Re: IN> Lovecraft In Nomine IN> Dominic and Destiny IN> Dominic and Destiny Re: IN> Getting into Heaven Re: IN> Getting into Heaven IN> Character Generators for In Nomine Re: IN> Dominic and Destiny Re: IN> Dominic and Destiny Re: IN> Love amongst Superiors (Sorry that it's long...) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 16:37:23 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Angel movies >All well and good, but how do these make it the most Angelic movie for IN >ever made? Esp. in light of the first two? You can list just as many angelic >items from the other two movies. Truthfully I think that if we're looking >for the most Angelic movie ever made for IN we should probably look at >Dogma* as it's closer to the way most campaigns seem to be run. >This is not to say that I dispute your points about the angelic items from >the movie, I just don't see how they make it the most Angelic movie of all >time. While the First Two movies are certainly (in my opinion) required "reading" for the In Nomine game...though the second is more a bridge than an actual movie in my opinion. I found the First One while perfect for my view of Satan and the average Cherub (Simon looking after our protagionist and The little girl) I didn't really see as many In Nomine momments for it as the Second ones...i.e. things you could steal or look to and say "Yes that's In Nomine". Number Two was better with the Example of Tether of Michael and showing him for once as an angel whose not a brute but the smartest man alive as well as the most just....and he's still tough as heck. It even had a nice example of a Mercurian (the father of Danyael). Yet again the problem was I didn't see the In Nomine momments I wanted to as much as in P3. Dogma on the other hand is a great movie to show In Nomine because it shows Angels very good...and very clueless. Overall I would say it has the best "consistant theme" of In Nomine and it's a crying shame it and In Nomine weren't released at the same time (and the movie recieve less criticism). I think it would have gotton alot better exposure. So I guess I would capitulate Dogma is better. Though if you ever want to see what gal an Elohim falls for (yes it does happen) look at Nicholas Cage's City of Angel-Drab Dreary servants of Yves live in a library. Wings of Desire has a more humanistic angelic look but I can't find the thing anywhere over here....plus the German aspect... Okay now I'm ranting. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 16:50:12 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Long live the Revolution Re: Everyone in Heaven being a nice guy >Fine for your campaign, if you turn the brightness level way up. >However, since angels don't need to be nice, neither do blessed souls. >They need to be *holy*, but holines != niceness. Holiness I find unfortunately is being nice for the most part or at least caring and loving. Thus while I make acknowledgements for the In Nomine mood that beings like the Grand Inquisitors and so forth have been let inside Heaven by people like Dominic and Laurence (why should Innocent the Third be punished for my sin?). I keep the mood there is amongst the souls a large ammount of people who recognize these people for they are only here because they're superiors intervened in the Symphony and prevented them from choosing their destiny without divine interference. In some ways I'm tempted that everyone who didn't ascend to a higher heaven falls under this. Thus guilt is a great part of many Bodvista's feelings in my opinion. Kinduv...we missed out on something here. Albert Einstein didn't believe in an afterlife but he was a good man and thus would be allowed in by God in my opinion....however I guess it's my grumbling with the Fate/Destiny system so I'll shut up now. >That would be difficult, since in Heaven it's impossible to lie, and I >assume that everyone knows on an instinctive level that they're >perceiving the unfiltered Truth. Okay this I will percieve but it's a very disturbing idea to me that maybe out of all the billions of souls out there that one person who met his destiny and denied his fate-feels so cheated he falls. That would really be a sign of nastiness I think to come. >They do become a little wiser and more connected to God -- they're in >Heaven, after all! True I suppose. Plus theres always the Higher Heavens. On some level I was thinking the Angel of Purgatory (a servant of Stone who believes in inflicting states of suffering to purify a person) might have a growing "cult" in heaven that both Heaven and Hell are places where souls have equally lost their way and must be transformed into something stronger to ascend to the true universe. Well as you can guess, Plato here would be unpopular as he got more radical. >Hey, *I* write in a very angry tone at times. Blowing off steam through >your writing has nothing to do with whether or not you are personally >violent. Your telling this to a man who writes for a living. Ultimately it's not my place to judge Marx and I apologize to him wherever he is... I just never found his writings my cup of tea. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 17:07:57 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Freedom in Hell Indivuality is cool because unlike what it was stated I doubt either Heaven and Hell hold a lock on it. Freedom taken to it's extreme is anarchy and a tempest while Law taken to it's natural high is death and oblivion of the spirit. Thus the question comes to Heaven/Hell how do we give enough to allow the Humans to self actualize.... (and serve us) >WTF? Who drew those two as obedient boot-lickers? I sure don't see >valefor as saying anything like that without his tongue buried deep in >his cheek. and Malphus is much to slippery to ever say something that >concrete. Yeah the intention was to portray they were up to something at this point and were about to pull something over the bosses. Valephor I think would end up saying something like this to the Devil himself truly but Malphus I think never gave anyone in Hell the impression other than someone severely loyal to the cause as a Shedim is. "I live to serve." (Myself) is what he neglects to mention. >"Submit yourself to becoming a sword in the Army of God and we shall >achieve final victory!" -- Laurance Yep. This about sums up Laurance. The problem is he's not doing it angrilly or orderingly. I just can't shake the fact he's glad to be serving his "country"...oh great I've got the early image of Riley the soldier from Buffy the Vampire Slayer in my head...that's going to leave a mark on my impressions of him. (we know what happened to him after all) >"Act with good sense. or else." Dominic Yep. >"Your profit margins seem to be down for the third quarter in a row. >Perhaps you need a less strenuous assignment delivering messages for the >next 10000 years?" Marc Yeah but if you suck you suck. Your an Olfamite if your good at delivering messages....okay just study and be hard and maybe you can get through it. >"Are you sure that that's the best why to conduct the experiment? Why >don't you just let me take over?" Jean Yep. >"Be free." Lilith Counterpoint: "I changed my mind....I will be free...you owe me a geas." Lilith's in the proverbial rock/frying pan position...and yes I realized I mixed metaphors..it's that bad. >"Fools who follow other around without question may be funny, but my >demons are the ones laughing not being laughed at!" Kobal and yet....the joke isn't funny anymore when your still viewed as someone whose a clown among people with no sense of humor. What is the price of being one of the laughers if it's the same old guy you tease every day....in my mind Kobal is working on something big that will either get him redeemed or destroy himself. >"The pieces move with such enjoyable unpredictability. Without that the >game would soon grow old and boring, but as it is I stand to be >entertained for the next 20 million years at least." Asmodeous * >* Obviously you and I disagree about Asmo, but such is life. > Ummm this is ASMODEUS....forgive me if I know we have different opinions on him but in this factor I think Asmodeus would say this definately but he hates being a sore loser and thus hunts down any renegades or people who think outside "party line." The Game is the chesswar between Good and Evil. He's the Prince of the War between Heaven and Hell-the Michael to Lawrence to Baal but no one yet realizes this. He's got the game rules set up but those who break them (anything that displeases him) are destroyed without mercy. It's like the Screwtape Letters by. C.S. Lewis when Screwtape was instructing his...oh let's call him an Impudite... nephew Wormwood. Wormwood was working against this fellow and Screwtape in order to help combat God gave him some "real" facts about God. I.E. he does love his children and not the love of eternal hellfire they preach basically. Wormwood thus called in the Inquisition on Screwtape....Asmodeus's guys for breaking "party line" that they were the servants of liberation and freedom. Screwtape being a fairly old Shedim corruptor methinks got out of that one but Asmodeus is the living embodiment of the "Poker Face" He's rather give demons over to Dominic rather than give them the freedom they so desperately require because at least one aspect of Hell's heirachy (Asmodeus's group) is alie. Indeed another cool campaign concept is Lilith's plot to destroy Asmodeus and free herself and all Lilim (along with Kobal who plans this as his big prank) from his yoke while fufilling her geas to Lucifer and at last being free. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 17:08:19 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> I'll see your Silly Artifact and raise you.. At 3:48 PM -0400 6/4/00, EDG wrote: > > Nope, I just got steeped in the Lego mystique that > > pervades SJG's web page. What's Serendipity (I > > remember a children's book by that name, but it was > > about a female sea monster that went after polluters, > > so I don't think that was it)? > >Serendipity is a work of fiction written by Philip Moyer. It can be found >at http://www.jurai.net/~pmoyer/Serendip.html - it doesn't have much IN >content, though it does include the Golden Lego. ^_^ "Yet." It doesn't have much IN content *yet.* But I have faith in Philip. Which should be worth a Rite, darn it. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: 4 Jun 2000 14:19:55 -0700 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Angel movies On Sun, 04 June 2000, "Charles Phipps" wrote: > Though if you ever want to see what gal an Elohim falls for (yes it does Funny, I thought him closer to Menunim. > happen) look at Nicholas Cage's City of Angel-Drab Dreary servants of Yves > live in a library. Wings of Desire has a more humanistic angelic look but I > can't find the thing anywhere over here....plus the German aspect... Consider yourself fortunate. It's long and rambling and takes forever to get anywhere, and when it does it isn't very far. Imagine what would happen if you crossed IN and the SNL skit "Sprockets", but without the humor. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 14:35:32 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Lovecraft In Nomine >From: "Charles Phipps" >The Other David wrote re: My comparisons to In Nomine to Lovecraft: > >Have you actually *read* any Lovecraft? > >Yep though pretty tame once your a teenager and extensive reader of >philosophy/extentialism and everyone whose LEGITAMATELY stolen from >lovecraft (illegitmately steal is to not to and claim you are) you realize >there is enough similarity to go on and it is inspired work. > >Specifically that...okay yes the overiding mood is the exact opposite >Lovecraft horror is "Humanity means jack in the cosmic scheme of things"-In >Nomine means "Humanity is everything" basically. I highly suggest checking out "Where Angels Fear to Tread": http://www.meta-earth.com/nomine/ethereal/index.html The art is cool and the ideas even cooler. And it even inspired my very first In Nomine campaign. :) - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/6045/index.html "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 16:48:59 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Angel movies Charles Phipps wrote: > Though if you ever want to see what gal an Elohim falls for (yes it does > happen) look at Nicholas Cage's City of Angel-Drab Dreary servants of Yves > live in a library. I think he was a Mercurian. I also think the movie sucked, but then, I can barely tolerate Meg Ryan. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 17:36:28 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Laurence and Baladine sitting in a tree... >Well, it certainly depends on how you interpret Force-donation -- in our >games (non-canon alert), the "flavor" of Forces influences the result. >So if he _did_ get it on with Blandine for the purpose of creating a >new angel, you'd probably get a dreamy honor-nut. (Galahad, anyone?) Heheheheh well that's not exactly such a bad idea in my opinion though in my mind as Galahad was the perfect knight plus considerably mellower than Dad. Then again he was also made by seduction in any case and we know that's not going to happen unless Beleth assumes her lover's appearence and takes some of the old boy's forces.... >Now, this is all well and good, but the other thing to remember about >Laurence is that he's a good Christian. For some value of that, since >he knows that there is biblical errancy. O:> Problem is that in In Nomine there is no contradiction between the interpretation of God and the timelines....it's just another example of the "departments" working at Cross-purposes again. More of an RL problem in my opinion and one resolved by either A:) Going to the source B:) Doing what Lawrence does....pithfully adapt yourself to the current morality of the age while trying to follow the spirit of God's commandments. >material in Superiors 1 pretty closely, but IIRC, it would seem out >of character for him to have, well, affairs. At least, not frequent >ones. So he'd be tying himself to _one_ other being, if he got >married, and if he then created angels in conjunction with that other, >the (back to non-canon) memetic influence (I call it taint) would spread >throughout his Servitors, slowly. Not that the other Superior's Word >is a _bad_ or _impure_ thing -- it's just not _Sword_. Affairs yes....certainly methinks there are angels better suited for such "Novalis" and "Eli" comming to mind certainly. You already know my Gabrielle and Michael opinions. However as a romantic character I think few match the sword in likely feeling. I would imagine it possible (it happened all the time with knights) Lawrence might have been in love a few times in his life before but never without the intention of making it permanent. (I'm not sure whether this is Laurence's first courtly love or whether swords recieved the hilt before). >Now, if you assume that he has at least a teensy streak of something >a little less fixated on marriage (unlike the original quote I think >you had for him), Well that was just playing on an exaggerated stereotype to get this topic moving truth be told. Though truly I never saw Laurence as a romantic chivalrious knight until someone suggested it. No, for sword I see him as seeking union the religeon he is one with venerates. He has agape for his fellow brothers certainly but not Eros. He's seeking the Sheild to complement his Blade...and I think why Baladine is so right for him. this becomes more of a moot point -- if marriage >is for mortals, while celestials should just try to keep to the >spirit of honorable/courtly love... Well, that's different. But he'll >probably go to confession later. O:> I can just see this. Dominic: Hello my child, what is your name, word if you have any, and your sin. Laurence: Uhhhh isn't this supposed to be anonymous? Dominic: I judged that problematic....truth be told the honesty has truly helped confession. Since I instituted the policy we have only a thousandth of the confessions we used to. Laurence: Ah I see well.... Dominic: Save Eli who always stops in to brag.... Laurence: Uh huh... Dominic: So talk Laurence, whole seconds of crime are going unpunished. Laurence: Well you recall ummm my love for Baladine. Dominic: Ah yes her.... nevergivemethetimeofdayyadreamywhor... Laurence: Hmmm? Dominic: Yes my child? Laurence: We were...together last night. Dominic: Ah I see.... Laurence: What's that sound? Dominic: Squeaky confession box. Dominic: Darnit! Laurence: Uh I see...what must I do to atone so I may do it ag...uh atone? Dominic: Slay six regenegades and say six Hail Dominics... Laurence: Yes of cou....six Hail...pardon what was that? Dominic: Six Hail Marys and our Father. Dominic: DARNIT! >(One can also assume that Superiors can make Servitors conjointly >(is that a word?) _without_ it qualifying precisely as what humans >would consider "intimate" in a sexual sense. Which definitely does >open the door to lots of cross-Word creations, as needed to fit a >niche. Though for some reason, if Laurence got married, I think >he'd eschew this -- "forsaking all others.") Well in this case I believe intimacy amongst angels is the joining of souls and the relieving of suffering by mutual intimacy of their thoughts hopes, pains, and dreams. It's marriage, sex, counsolment, and death all in one. It expresses probably both affection and a desire to alleviate suffering. Creating children is not exactly part of the equation and more like working on art...though creating the fruit of union between two likely is certainly part of it and likely someone like Novalis might actually have carried a child to term whose a celestial for whatever reason. Thus in Heaven Celestial Sex and Procreation are two different things I see that can be related but were ultimately just combined by God who had time and budget constraints. >Eeeeeeeenyway, thus be my view on things, canon and not all combined >together into a Beth-made stew. Your work is good as always. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 14:50:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> I'll see your Silly Artifact and raise you.. Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 15:48:11 -0400From: "EDG" Subject: Re: IN> I'll see your Silly Artifact and raise you.. >> Nope, I just got steeped in the Lego mystique that >> pervades SJG's web page. What's Serendipity (I >> remember a children's book by that name, but it was >> about a female sea monster that went after >>polluters, so I don't think that was it)? >Serendipity is a work of fiction written by Philip >Moyer. It can be found at > http://www.jurai.net/~pmoyer/Serendip.html - it >doesn't have much IN >content, though it does include the Golden Lego. ^_^ Ahh. Much is now explained. BTW, Beth, I _do_ know what the definition of serendipity is. A BA in English should be good for something*... ;P~ Odd, though: my girlfriend goes to UMD at College Park (the setting of the above)... More on topic, I was looking over my artifact, and I'm not all that happy with the Essence cost, upon reflection (or the final point cost: it's a bit high). Any suggestions on how to make using the relic a little more balanced (while still allowing it to create a car if you really need it, and the Lego's chock full of Essence)? Morgan (FAW) *Note I said, "should be". Not "is". :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 15:30:20 -0700 From: Ryan Elias Subject: Re: IN> Getting into Heaven Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Your destiny is the _best_ thing you can do for the Symphony, and > your fate the worst. If you are a Soldier of God, and your destiny > is to play second violin in the local orchestra - then playing second > violin is what _will_ have the best (if more subtle!) effect upon > those who hear you and whose lives you touch. Killing demons on your > spare time is gravy. Are Soldiers of God guaranteed Heaven? I can't recall. (I'm *pretty* sure that Hellsworn, naturally enough, go to Hell, but I'm not totally sure...) Cheers, Ryan "I am Jack's colon. I get cancer, I kill Jack." -Fight Club ------------------------------ Date: 4 Jun 2000 17:23:08 -0700 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Lovecraft In Nomine On Sun, 04 June 2000, "Genevieve Cogman" wrote: > Consider the hypothesis that the massed Heavenly Hosts are in fact the > groupmind which composes Nyarlathotep. (Not to mention interesting > correspondences between Novalis and Shub-Niggurath, Yves and Azathoth, and > so on . . .) > Perhaps Lucifer knew precisely what he was doing when he led his Rebellion? Maya, you are a festering pool of depravity that a Shedite would envy. :) I'd like to see this developed more fully... - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 20:53:05 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Dominic and Destiny Re: Yves >I see him as the Ultimate Mathematician, trying to solve the Universal Equation. Trying to get all the variables >turned into constants, and seeing if the Symphony ultimately equals positive, negative, or zero. Actually it equals.... U. Which really confuses Yves. >Nah. He's far too serene for that. I swear, he could give Elohim lessons. He's high on life. >I never meant to imply that you didn't. Okay day. >True. But it makes Dominic a tragic character. I find tragedy interesting, as long as it doesn't spill over into >angst. And Dominic is tragic without being angstful. I can see that. "I don't whine. I work harder. There is no mountain we cannot climb if we know the truth and hold it in our hearts." >No, he isn't proud, but he comes across as unbearably arrogant, at least in how I see him. It comes from >Right damn near all the time. (Think about it: If you knew the right course of action 99.99% of the time, you'd >seem arrogant to anyone who disagreed with you. Especially when you were proven right.) Indeed so. I agree with you 100% >Possibly. I prefer a scenario I crafted for IN Endgame (wherein the Final Battle is fought, all loose ends >accounted for, etc. I don't intend to actually run it -- not only would it decisively end the game, but the PCs >would spend most of their time watching Big Importnat Things happen outside their control -- but I like >knowing how things are going to end, so I can craft a more believeable middle): Judgement Day has come >and gone, Hell is vanquished, all souls have been Judged. Dominic records his last verdict on the second-to->Last page of the Book of Judgement. When that is done, he sets the quill down, and very slowly turns to the >first page of the book, and slowly reads through to the end. He ponders for a moment, then picks up the quill, >and on the last page of the book writes: "...and it was Good." >And with a sigh of weariness tempered with satisfaction of the knowledge of a job well done, he dissolves his >Forces and is absorbed back into the Symphony. Unless of course Yves in Bermuda shorts taps him on the shoulder and says "Hey Dominic I know your getting ready for your vacation and all like the rest of us. Michael and Eli are already throwing the kegger down on Earth with their previously dead buddies but God kinduv...well made another world...in fact more than one he's started on and he kinduv needs a new head archangel....could you handle it since I haven't had a decent rest in a trillion years?" >See above. Suicide before his job is completed is Failure, and Dominic does not permit himself to fail. However that's probably his biggest temptation. >Sympathy does not equal tolerance. I honestly feel Dominic personally mourns every angel that Falls, but he >does not allow that sympathy to come between him and his Word. True and yet I believe there is little balance to it. Judgement does not equal Justice. Or Temperance. >Isn't that what Novalis has been trying to do for the past million years? The thing is, Dominic won't let >ANYONE get close. It's his job, his sin, his penance. He can't forgive himself, so how can he let anyone else >forgive him? God but Dominic I doubt doesn't want to hear him at this point sya what he wants...of course none of the angels do either-that's why he's shut up here. >I think the results of that trial had an impact on him, yes. I rather suspect he was expecting God to do for Uriel >what he did for Michael. On a sobering note I think I figured out what Dominic fears most about the Uriel incident: Uriel was discorporated instead of rewarded-his energy used to fill in the holes of the Symphony his destruction caused. Dominic fears God knew that Uriel had done his word "Too well" to the point it was-compatrively speaking-a din overwhelming the rest of the Symphony. - -Charlie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 20:53:05 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Dominic and Destiny Re: Yves >I see him as the Ultimate Mathematician, trying to solve the Universal Equation. Trying to get all the variables >turned into constants, and seeing if the Symphony ultimately equals positive, negative, or zero. Actually it equals.... U. Which really confuses Yves. >Nah. He's far too serene for that. I swear, he could give Elohim lessons. He's high on life. >I never meant to imply that you didn't. Okay day. >True. But it makes Dominic a tragic character. I find tragedy interesting, as long as it doesn't spill over into >angst. And Dominic is tragic without being angstful. I can see that. "I don't whine. I work harder. There is no mountain we cannot climb if we know the truth and hold it in our hearts." >No, he isn't proud, but he comes across as unbearably arrogant, at least in how I see him. It comes from >Right damn near all the time. (Think about it: If you knew the right course of action 99.99% of the time, you'd >seem arrogant to anyone who disagreed with you. Especially when you were proven right.) Indeed so. I agree with you 100% >Possibly. I prefer a scenario I crafted for IN Endgame (wherein the Final Battle is fought, all loose ends >accounted for, etc. I don't intend to actually run it -- not only would it decisively end the game, but the PCs >would spend most of their time watching Big Importnat Things happen outside their control -- but I like >knowing how things are going to end, so I can craft a more believeable middle): Judgement Day has come >and gone, Hell is vanquished, all souls have been Judged. Dominic records his last verdict on the second-to->Last page of the Book of Judgement. When that is done, he sets the quill down, and very slowly turns to the >first page of the book, and slowly reads through to the end. He ponders for a moment, then picks up the quill, >and on the last page of the book writes: "...and it was Good." >And with a sigh of weariness tempered with satisfaction of the knowledge of a job well done, he dissolves his >Forces and is absorbed back into the Symphony. Unless of course Yves in Bermuda shorts taps him on the shoulder and says "Hey Dominic I know your getting ready for your vacation and all like the rest of us. Michael and Eli are already throwing the kegger down on Earth with their previously dead buddies but God kinduv...well made another world...in fact more than one he's started on and he kinduv needs a new head archangel....could you handle it since I haven't had a decent rest in a trillion years?" >See above. Suicide before his job is completed is Failure, and Dominic does not permit himself to fail. However that's probably his biggest temptation. >Sympathy does not equal tolerance. I honestly feel Dominic personally mourns every angel that Falls, but he >does not allow that sympathy to come between him and his Word. True and yet I believe there is little balance to it. Judgement does not equal Justice. Or Temperance. >Isn't that what Novalis has been trying to do for the past million years? The thing is, Dominic won't let >ANYONE get close. It's his job, his sin, his penance. He can't forgive himself, so how can he let anyone else >forgive him? God but Dominic I doubt doesn't want to hear him at this point sya what he wants...of course none of the angels do either-that's why he's shut up here. >I think the results of that trial had an impact on him, yes. I rather suspect he was expecting God to do for Uriel >what he did for Michael. On a sobering note I think I figured out what Dominic fears most about the Uriel incident: Uriel was discorporated instead of rewarded-his energy used to fill in the holes of the Symphony his destruction caused. Dominic fears God knew that Uriel had done his word "Too well" to the point it was-compatrively speaking-a din overwhelming the rest of the Symphony. - -Charlie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 20:28:20 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Getting into Heaven Ryan Elias wrote: > Are Soldiers of God guaranteed Heaven? I can't recall. No, but there's a very good chance that being an active Soldier of God will fulfill their destiny. > (I'm *pretty* sure that Hellsworn, naturally enough, go to Hell, but I'm> not totally sure...) 99.9% of the time, yes. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 21:31:02 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Getting into Heaven At 8:28 PM -0500 6/4/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Ryan Elias wrote: > > Are Soldiers of God guaranteed Heaven? I can't recall. > >No, but there's a very good chance that being an active Soldier of God >will fulfill their destiny. > > > (I'm *pretty* sure that Hellsworn, naturally enough, go to Hell, >but I'm> not totally sure...) > >99.9% of the time, yes. There is the Hellsworn in the CPG who achieves his Destiny in the last seconds of his life. The section there highlights that humanity isn't quite so bipolar between Destiny and Fate as Angels and Demons - -- even years as a Soldier of Hell doesn't invalidate the choice in the end... - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 22:04:25 -0400 From: Thomas R Phillips Subject: IN> Character Generators for In Nomine Hi, My name is Tom and I've got a simple question. Does anyone out there have character generation program available, shareware, freeware, or otherwise out there? I know there's one by Tom Converse available on the SJG website. I'm curious if there are others available as well? If possible, send any replies back to my e-mail address. Thanks Tom "Back off man, I'm a scientist" Peter Venkman - Ghostbusters ------------------------------ Date: 4 Jun 2000 19:27:26 -0700 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Dominic and Destiny On Sun, 04 June 2000, "Charles Phipps" wrote: > Actually it equals.... > U. > Which really confuses Yves. Afraid I don't get the reference. > "I don't whine. I work harder. There is no mountain we cannot climb if we > know the truth and hold it in our hearts." Exactly! > Indeed so. I agree with you 100% I knew you would say that. :::) > >See above. Suicide before his job is completed is Failure, and Dominic does > not permit himself to fail. > > However that's probably his biggest temptation. I picture Dominic leaving his Chancery every so often to go to Jacob's Ladder where he can look and -imagine-.... > True and yet I believe there is little balance to it. Take a look at his Dissonance conditions. If his ruling are too harsh - unbalanced - then he would suffer Dissonance. > Judgement does not equal Justice. It's not supposed to. Justice, last I checked, was Judgement tempered with Grace. Dominic Judges, and if he's wrong, God intercedes. > Or Temperance. Again.... > God but Dominic I doubt doesn't want to hear him at this point sya what he > wants...of course none of the angels do either-that's why he's shut up here. Not sure what you're trying to say here. > On a sobering note I think I figured out what Dominic fears most about the > Uriel incident: Uriel was discorporated instead of rewarded-his energy used > to fill in the holes of the Symphony his destruction caused. > Dominic fears God knew that Uriel had done his word "Too well" to the point > it was-compatrively speaking-a din overwhelming the rest of the Symphony. Interesting, but I have a different notion. Superiors 1, p 87: "A special locked vault below the crypt [of his Cathedral] holds the Archangel of the Sword's mightiest weapons in readiness for the final battle. Only Laurence himself knows what's down there, and the two Cherubim guarding the door do not allow sightseers. But rumor has it that it's something -big-." I have this image of Uriel kept in a sort of suspended animation, Arthur-like, until such time as Heaven needs him once again.... Would anyone be interested in seeing my Endgame writeup? - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 23:47:42 -0400 From: "Aaron Medwin" Subject: Re: IN> Dominic and Destiny From: Casca > Would anyone be interested in seeing my Endgame writeup? I certainly would. What happens at the End is interesting, which is why I actually like the Revelations Cycle - it brings the world close, but not close enough to actually finish it up. IMHO, it's an amusing twist on the situation. Dark Victory was also entertaining, for similar reasons. By all means, please share it. > -- Casca Aaron Medwin Wannabe Malakite of Creation ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 23:03:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Love amongst Superiors (Sorry that it's long...) Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 16:09:08 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Love amongst Superiors >Now, if you assume that he has at least a teensy >streak of something a little less fixated on marriage >(unlike the original quote I think you had for him), >this becomes more of a moot point -- if marriage is >for mortals, while celestials should just try to keep >to the spirit of honorable/courtly love... Well, >that's different. But he'll probably go to confession >later. O:> Maybe not. Is Laurence the "It is better to marry than to burn" type Christian, the "O Lord, give me chastity and self restraint. But not yet, O Lord. Not yet" type, or somewhere in between? According to his writeup, Laurence swore to the _Nicene_Creed_: a document that says much about the nature of the Trinity, but nothing about celibacy (seeing as priestly celibacy was not mandatory at the time said Creed was worked out). 4th Century Christianity (the time of Larry's conversion) is an interesting beast, in and of itself: more flexible in some areas than modern Catholics, but much less flexible in others. Now, since that time, the Roman Catholic Church has codified rules and beliefs involving celibacy, constancy, and various other matters involving sex, love and relationships. Unfortunately, these strictures would apply only to _humans_, strictly speaking: there isn't a set of rules that tell how the angels how to behave. It is assumed (erroneously) that God is on hand to personally do the job Himself. What I'm getting at here, is that there's no real reason for Laurence to act like a celibate knight just because he's a fervent Catholic (unless, of course, you like him that way): the era where he learned his faith wasn't massively vehement on the subject (though Lord knows St. Paul was*), and the strictures that did exist could reasonably be interpeted to only apply to humans, and thus irrelevant to his religious obligations**. Larry could have a (UNMARRIED) celestial girlfriend in every Tether, and it wouldn't violate his Malakim oaths or his Word's dissonance conditions. Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Acting Nonchalantly Around Triads *The author of the first quote. St. Augustine was the second, BTW. **Of course, applying human moral values on sexuality to a entity that can remove parts of its "body" to create a new, free-willed, unique offspring (that is _not_ a carbon copy of the "parent") is absurd, anyway: one could be lead to the conclusion, that, by mortal standards, Laurence would be committing the mis-named sin of "Onanism" every time he created a new angel... :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1658 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.