From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Mar 2 11:35:21 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09412 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:35:21 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id LAA16821 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:38:15 -0600 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:38:15 -0600 Message-Id: <200103021738.LAA16821@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2091 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, March 2 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2091 In this digest: Re: IN> Clarification of my opinions, Part 1 (Heaven) Re: IN> Clarification of my opinions, Part 2 (Hell) Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War Re: IN> Clarification of my opinions, Part 1 (Heaven) Re: IN> Clarification of my opinions, Part 1 (Heaven) Re: IN> Clarification of my opinions, Part 1 (Heaven) IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2090 Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War IN> Kronos and Yves discussing War Re: IN> New ethereal (was: re: To Alter a Nation) Re: IN> Archangel of God part II IN> March 1, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> March 1, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> Clarification of my opinions, Part 2 (Hell) Re: IN> AD&D and In Nomine Re: IN> Clarification of my opinions, Part 2 (Hell) Re: IN> March 1, 2001 (ML) IN> How much do they know? IN> Something Nasty: Azrael, Archangel of Death. Pt 1 Re: IN> How much do they know? Re: IN> Something Nasty: Azrael, Archangel of Death. Pt 1 IN> Metropolitan NY Game or Gamers Needed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 19:39:00 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Clarification of my opinions, Part 1 (Heaven) Shadow wrote: > > Fair Warning: I'm a Southerner. And quite proud of it. Good for you. All I'm going to say about your interpretations of the Civil War is that it's no more ingenuous to say that the war wasn't at all about slavery than it is to say that it was all about slavery. The North didn't go to war "to free the slaves," but that was the moral underpinning of their cause which gave them public support (in the North), and if the South hadn't had slavery, there very probably wouldn't have been a war. ObIN: In general, I believe Heaven desired a victory by the North, and Hell desired a victory by the South. It's not that Northerners were "better" or nicer people than Southerners, but slavery was a BIG bad thing, something that Heaven must have had high on its list of priorities to get rid of. Likewise, the South was still very much based on feudalism and class stratification, social elements much more amenable to diabolical infiltration than democracy and egalitarianism. (No, the North was not truly egalitarian; far from it. But they at least paid lip service to the idea, and a lot of people really believed in it, and they were heading in that direction faster.) I doubt that either Heaven or Hell invested a whole lot of actual military support for either side; the humans were doing quite a good job of killing themselves. Rather, celestials were probably very busy trying to make sure the war didn't spin out of control and produce all kinds of undesirable side effects. Reconstruction was basically a victory for Hell, as it allowed the South to continue its oppressive regime for almost another century. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 19:43:56 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Clarification of my opinions, Part 2 (Hell) Janet Anderson wrote: > I generally do high brightness, but I think in this case it doesn't matter:> Lilith would support the North whether for selfish or unselfish reasons,> because of her Word. She's a demon, so her word can (and in my opinion> frequently does) encompass the selfish -- we're talking someone who has the> Word of Freedom and uses her powers to effectively enslave -- but the> results would be the same. Lilith probably did want to see the slaves freed, on general principles. The Emancipation Proclamation was probably a big boost to her Word. OTOH, she probably didn't publically support freeing the slaves because that wouldn't have looked good to the other Demon Princes. And by the same token, she probably loved the South's stance on "state's rights" ("We're just fighting for our freedom.....to deny freedom to the slaves.") - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 01:58:24 +0000 From: Sam Kington Subject: Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War Ben Glickler wrote: > It's also interesting in that Archangels and Demon Princes seldom try to > blatantly force big wars, but who would've thought that the greatest > conflict in human history (at the time) would be sparked by the death of one > relatively unexceptional nobleman? Sounds like a celestial plot to me. Sorry for being late on this, but this sounds to me like the greatest example of why Celestials do *not* run everything. Consider this possible example: * Bunch of newly-spawned Calabites get assigned to Archduke Ferdinard * His chauffeur goes a different route than expected, and they Fail * They're sitting in a bar lamenting their failure, when they see him * They get a second chance, and they kill him * World War II happens * What the hell? IN is far more interesting IMO when even the Chosen of Heaven (or, alternatively, God' Own Adversary) do not know what's going on. Sam - -- Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ Convert ZIPs to Mac format: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/macifyzip/ In Nomine Cookbook: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/innomine/ "All men are mortal. Socrates was mortal. Therefore, all men are Socrates." - Woody Allen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 01:58:34 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Clarification of my opinions, Part 1 (Heaven) >ObIN: In general, I believe Heaven desired a victory by the North, and >Hell desired a victory by the South. It's not that Northerners were >"better" or nicer people than Southerners, but slavery was a BIG bad >thing, something that Heaven must have had high on its list of >priorities to get rid of. Why do you say that? It's in the bible ... jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 20:06:23 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Clarification of my opinions, Part 1 (Heaven) Jo Hart wrote: > >Hell desired a victory by the South. It's not that Northerners were > >"better" or nicer people than Southerners, but slavery was a BIG bad > >thing, something that Heaven must have had high on its list of > >priorities to get rid of. > > Why do you say that? It's in the bible ... You're so bad.... - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 02:07:04 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Clarification of my opinions, Part 1 (Heaven) >Why do you say that? It's in the bible ... > > > >jo > I am not a troll, nor do I play one on TV (although I do in Shadowrun), but I know one when I see one ... Janet Anderson (but thanks for making me laugh when I was depressed) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 18:15:04 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2090 Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 19:26:44 -0600From: Kris Overstreet Subject: Re: IN> Clarification of my opinions, Part 2 (Hell) At 08:01 PM 3/1/01 -0500, you wrote: >>And, BTW, whether the world would have been >>better/worse had the South won the American Civil >>War is _officially_ as of now Canon Doubt and >>Uncertainty. (It's just one of those arguements >>that doesn't have an answer, unless you happen to >>have a daemonic appointment-keeper that gets >>exchanged with the one that went down the other >>trousers of time, a-la Jingo, if I recall my Pterry >>correctly.) >An Imp in service to Fate, perhaps? >"Bingly-bingley BEEP! Things to do today: >dieDiedIediEDie..." Now wouldn't _that_ be a fun relic to write up. Suitably modified, of course. Thanks!* :) Moe *No, I ain't getting involved in this one, otherwise. AH scenarios are full to argue ... in person, with beer present. I find that Civil War AH scenarios rapidly demonstrate that everyone's axe is very dull, so naturally everyone goes off to the grinding wheel to sharpen them... ;) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 02/19/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 02:16:36 +0000 From: Sam Kington Subject: Re: IN> Heaven, Hell, and the Civil War Jo, You wrote: > >From: "Janet Anderson" > > > >So what about celestial involvement in the Civil War? > > Oh, I think Heaven per se tends to be old-fashioned, but I'm sure Janus was > betting on the Roundheads. I saw this thread, and I read the original post, and as it came to the Demonic responses I realised what the intent of the original post was. Then I saw that you had already responded. Then I read your response. And I was not dissapointed. (Not that I am usually dissapointed in your responses.) Good on you :-). Sam - -- Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ Convert ZIPs to Mac format: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/macifyzip/ In Nomine Cookbook: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/innomine/ "All men are mortal. Socrates was mortal. Therefore, all men are Socrates." - Woody Allen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 21:15:37 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Kronos and Yves discussing War Yves: I understand the list is discussing the Civil war and our reactions to it. *moves white queen piece* Kronos: Oh great... *moves black knight* Yves: When are they going to realize that there are no JUST wars or injust ones. Kronos: That I will disagree on. Yves: Oh? *moves rook* Kronos: Yes as governments can bring down entire groups of individuals. Thus by the Allies winning World War I, I was able to bring the Nazis into power and by them winning World War II I was able to make Stalin much more powerful and the Soviet Union a much greater threat than the Germans. Yves: Tsk Tsk Tsk Kronos as usual you miss the point. Ultimately it's not about whether the Nazis won World War I or the Kaiser....unjust laws they do but on an individual level they are about people choosing to stand up for what's right. Some were damned by the nazis but no more than most governments....it's in the little things such choices are made. *Kronos moves pawn* Kronos: Bah! A Communist dictatorship would be infinately prefferable... Yves: Your revisioning again Kronos....you said you wanted the Nazis to win. *Yves moves knight* Kronos: Well ultimately governments are themselves failure and the flush of sucess can push a good one as much to evil as an evil one bring more to me. Still great events lead people to fate not your purile homesteading. *moves knight* Yves: *moves knight* Check Kronos: The same for you - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 18:22:18 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> New ethereal (was: re: To Alter a Nation) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 10:49:01 -0500From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> New ethereal (was: re: To Alter a Nation) >Interesting idea. Thanks. :) >So are there similar Ethereal Presidents and Prime >Ministers in many other nations? How about Ethereal >Monarchs? Is there a dispossessed and fading >Ethereal King of Scotland? Italy? My first response would be, "Sure": Americans are hardly unique in this matter. However, I won't write up any other examples, seeing as I'd be on the outside looking in, as it were - and this is one kind of writeup where that would be an important limitation. So, I'll let Our British Cousins write up Good King Generic, and Our Australian Cousins do _their_ Platonic Chief of State, and so on, and so on, and so on... :) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 02/19/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 18:32:32 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Archangel of God part II Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 00:52:54 -0500From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Archangel of God part II >Superior Opinions >Saminga: Death is nonexistant. I conquered it and so >shall all eventually. >"I killed you once! I can do it again! STAY DEAD THIS >TIME! DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE >DIE DIE DIE!" OK, this made me laugh. :) Moe PS Nope, no AA Jesus coming from me in the future - unless I decide to do one where he's going, "Err... didn't Allah - the Compassionate, the Merciful - Inspire Muhammad after I left? He said that He was going to..." Actually, that would be kind of interesting, if only because Laurence would go _so_ incredibly pale... ;) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 02/19/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 20:32:39 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> March 1, 2001 (ML) Heh. Got it in before midnight. Go figure. :) Moe Spring Cleaning Before we get started, something should be made very clear: Jean never lets things pile up as badly as Vapula does. Keeping one's workstation and Cathedral clean and neat aids one's efficiency. Jean also doesn't throw out things just because he's gotten bored with them: for one thing, Jean doesn't get bored. And Jean certainly doesn’t leave potentially devastating relics around for just anyone to pick up and misuse. However, even an Archangel needs to go through his stuff every decade or so and try to shift some of the clutter. Just because a Cathedral is infinitely extendable doesn't give one the excuse to let reorganizations slide: besides, there's all the old and obsolete equipment to get rid of. Jean would just miracle it all away, but apparently the other Archangels seem more than happy to send over Servitors to do the heavy lifting. They have ulterior motives, of course: 'obsolete' to a Servitor of Lightning usually means 'bleeding edge' to everyone else, and Lightning Tech is guaranteed to be safe, reliable and rugged. The computer hardware alone is well worth snagging, but that's just the tip of the iceberg: the pickings can be insanely profitable. So, the PCs have been 'volunteered' (although anyone with a grain of sense would be insane not to angle for this kind of duty): they've been given an official shopping list, plus a few quiet verbal instructions on especially nice pretties to keep an eye out for. Presuming that there are moving vans in your Heaven (and why not? Some blessed souls like driving, so there ought to be roads and cars and stuff), they get one of those, too (with the unstated but obvious hint to bring it back packed). Needless to say, the PCs are also free to bring back personal souvenirs, as long as they don't get too greedy. Now, neither Jean nor his Servitors are idiots, of course: they know full well that certain Archangels (coughcoughJanuscoughcoughMichaelcoughcoughZadkielcoughcough) aren't about to ask too many awkward questions about how certain relics mysteriously showed up in the aforementioned vans. So, each party of cleaners gets a helpful (and very vigilant) Servitor of Lightning to direct their efforts. Also, there's a certain tendency to make sure that all the spare papers (which annually threaten to collapse under their own mass and turn into neutronium) are removed first. It's only efficient to assign this necessary task to more - muscular - members of the Host, no? Running this actually can be fun, if a bit combat light: after all, the PCs get to go _everywhere_ in the Halls of Progress, complete with tour guide. They also get to figure out how to grab the good stuff before the other Trash Squads do. Some Servitors of Lightning will be more than happy to do a little dealing on the side, trading stuff that isn't quite ready to be thrown away in exchange for various types of favors. Of course, some won't. It's also likely that at least one storage room full of really neat things will be mislabeled as needing to be disposed off en masse: nobody's perfect. Interaction with the other Trash Squads can be interesting, too: if you've scored the files to a new type of fertilizer, do you trade it to the Flowerchildren with the computer disks containing detailed ways to create edible explosives, or just try to steal the latter from them? And what do you do when the Seraph of Flowers whaps you with his Choir Attunement and takes the files from your unresisting hands? Of course, some GMs may have players who do not enjoy roleplaying going to a swap meet, incomprehensible as that might sound to any sensible entity. If that happens, just have some poor dupe accidentally open up the wrong door and let out a gross or so of captured Vapulan Flying Steam Automatons of Doom, or anything else that is conducive to clever maneuvering around the Pax Dei. Tracking them down (and making blessed sure that a few end up in the van) should give those players something to do. ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 02/19/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 22:44:38 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> March 1, 2001 (ML) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice Lane" To: Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 10:32 PM Subject: IN> March 1, 2001 (ML) > And what do you do > when the Seraph of Flowers whaps you with his Choir > Attunement and takes the files from your unresisting > hands? Don't forget about the Pax Dei. Initiating any act of violence within Heaven is good for a point of Dissonance right on the spot. So who needs the Seraph of Flowers attunement? Besides, it works both ways... his attunement *plus* his Dissonance conditions means he can't do anything to stop *you* from nicking *his* pockets clean, and the Windies have much better pickpockets than the Flowerchildren do anyway. *g* - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 01:02:17 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Clarification of my opinions, Part 2 (Hell) From: "There's no gravity, the world just sucks." > > There might have been some bet-hedging going on, but Destiny's best chance > lies with the North, and Fate's with the South. Fate was served obscenely well the way things turned out in our history, actually. ;) ------------------------------ Date: 2 Mar 2001 09:14:46 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> AD&D and In Nomine On Tue, 27 Feb 2001 20:24:45 -0500 Rolland Therrien wrote: [yah, yeh, i'm running late....] >Saminga >The Demon Prince of Death, Saminga, is Neutral Evil. He is known as the >Dark Reaper, the Walking Death and the King of Necromancers. He ultimatly >seeks to end all life on Earth, and patronizes all Mortals who work to slay >other humans, and is the creator and protector of all Undead. The Domains >he is associated with are Death, Magic, Evil and War. His worshippers, who >include undead, evil necromancers, rogues and assassins, often depict him as >a gaunt, lich-like cloaked figure armed with a long scythe, his favored >weapon. i'm amused by all the D&D3e stuff going around, and i like the direction it's taking by itself as well as what you've done to include it into In Nomine, along with someone else's suggestions of how to incorporate IN into the d20 system. nitpick over this, though: Saminga is Chaotic Evil if ever i saw one. the raving, unpredictable, crazed figure out to kill--and that's the only thing about him you can predict. other than that, i like your description of him :) "Next to hydrogen, stupidity is the most common element in the universe." --Harlan Ellison ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 04:31:33 EST From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Clarification of my opinions, Part 2 (Hell) - --part1_47.81fa6b2.27d0c275_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>Lilith:=A0 Publicly neutral; privately helping the North. She's committed=20= to=20 her Word, but she's not stupid enough to face off openly against=20 Andrealphus, Beleth *and* Kronos.<< I think Lilith would also like the general idea that the southern states=20 should have the right to secede, rather than be tied to the nation. Freedom=20 in more political, idealistic terms. She'd disagree with slavery of course,=20 but the mixed opinions would be a factor in her remaining neutral. Reverend Brian A. Rogers BillionSix@aol.com ICQ# 22544590 - --part1_47.81fa6b2.27d0c275_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>Lilith:=A0 Public= ly neutral; privately helping the North. She's committed to=20
her Word, but she's not stupid enough to face off openly against=20
Andrealphus, Beleth *and* Kronos.<<

I think Lilith would also like the general idea that the southern states= =20
should have the right to secede, rather than be tied to the nation. Free= dom=20
in more political, idealistic terms. She'd disagree with slavery of cour= se,=20
but the mixed opinions would be a factor in her remaining neutral.

Reverend Brian A. Rogers
BillionSix@aol.com
ICQ# 22544590 - --part1_47.81fa6b2.27d0c275_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 08:10:36 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> March 1, 2001 (ML) >Heh. Got it in before midnight. Go figure. :) > >Moe > >Spring Cleaning YES! One thing IN needs more of is Heaven-based adventures! I mean, there's plenty of possibilities in Hell, but Heaven, on the other hand, is sorely lacking. Not that anybody's complaining, I'm sure; Heaven is peaceful, well-ordered, and above all, *safe.* But with an essentially infinite setting you'd think there were a few interesting games to play here. I've been trying to come up with some on my own here: Political intrigue; flitting from one Cathedral to another, trying to head off an event before it becomes an incident between (pick two or more Archangels). Call in some favors and get your Fast-Talk ready, because you'll need it. The Library has recently redirected PC#1 to a peculiar little room, with a few odd books in it. Books that haven't been written yet are a reasonably recognizeable feature for the Library -- there's the bare spare where Valefor stole the Nostradamus orginial from -- but the particular prophecies the PC is directed to appear to foretell, in written Angelic, a Bad Thing. In Heaven. The proper thing to do of course, is tell your Boss. Unfortunately, the text quite clearly states that PC#1 is directly involved in the event. Or possibly his close friend, PC#2. Still so eager? (If so, the Boss in question would probably praise your honesty, and tell you to Fix It. Or at least Minimize Damage.) A new section of Heaven has appeared. It doesn't appear to be a Cathedral under any known Archangel. In general, it's quite large, totally unpopulated, and in the style of (pick something suitably exotic). The blessed souls are quite curious, and there's no particular reason to say that they're in any real danger. However, there's no sense being incautious. The PCs, among other teams, are sent to explore the new... well, let's call it "Land" for the time being. (Although depending on your setting that may be inappropriate; there's always Space, Water, or Other.) What is the new Land? Possibilities: 1) God has simply decided that there ought to be an unclaimed region that's not the Eternal City. Clues, left embedded at the heart of the region in some interesting form, indicate that the region is permanent, stable, and not to be claimed by any Archangel, present or future. 2) A new intelligent species has evolved on the Earth. They could be a mutation in chimpanzees, or a just-born example of a kind of metahuman. This is their Heaven, and it will be populated soon. Alternatively, it could be a buffer zone between the human Heaven and that of an alien species with which Earth is about to make contact. (Either of these would change the basic In Nomine setting, rather a lot.) An ancient enemy has reappeared on the Earth. The most efficient weapons are artifacts with which to combat are known to be in Raphael's or Oannes' Cathedral; the PCs are to fetch the item. However, despite having all the necessary access codes and entrance procedures, do old security measures still hold danger for the angels venturing into realms long since untrodden? Might old artifacts themselves have weird effects on even casual passersby? Do unknown treasures lie in wait? >Interaction with the other Trash Squads can be >interesting, too: if you've scored the files to a new >type of fertilizer, do you trade it to the >Flowerchildren with the computer disks containing >detailed ways to create edible explosives, or just try >to steal the latter from them? And what do you do >when the Seraph of Flowers whaps you with his Choir >Attunement and takes the files from your unresisting >hands? Bah. It's not violent to clutch the files to your chest and insist on a fair trade only. ;^) Mind you - Jean never *releases* anything with bugs, but that doesn't mean the object was perfect throughout its creative process. You have to wonder, if they're so useful and in working order, why Jean didn't just release them... ...although I do have one idea. Those Servitors of Lightning could easily be maneuvering the PCs into situations where they get what they need, or close to it. After all, Jean's an Elohite. He could just hand the artifacts to the Windies, but he knows it's just so much more *fun* for them if they "score" it themselves.... :^) William ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 05:57:31 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> How much do they know? I've been thinking about this ever since I came up with that recent ethereal spirit. It seems reasonable enough to postulate that the most powerful figures in corporeal society know something about the War (in some cases, knowledge about the War is why they're powerful), but I'm wondering how many institutions do. Either the CPG or GMG (no books with me, and I forget which) discusses how to generally deal with this, but I'm just idly curious about how the subject has been handled in campaigns. Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 02/19/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 14:03:27 -0000 From: "Fallen Seraph" Subject: IN> Something Nasty: Azrael, Archangel of Death. Pt 1 Now don't get me wrong. I like David Edelstein's Azrael, but he's too nice. Not really the angel who did for Sodom & Gomorah. Thus... here's my take on the theme WARNING! this Archangel is suitable for a Very dark portrayal of Heaven, and is just plain nasty. Sinners Beware! Azrael Elohite Archangel of Death "And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my Vengence upon thee!" History The Passover, Sodom and Gomorrah, these are Azrael's best known works. The mysterious and menacing ArchAngel of Death makes Dominic look like a cherub. Cold as ice, and diamond sharp, Azrael and it's servitors are a divine scalpel against the cancer of sin. Born in the fires of the rebellion, Azrael fought with holy fury against the rebels, executing many personally. It's Word was granted immediately after the Fall, and it ascended to Archangelic status a few centuries later. Azrael rarely involves itself in heavenly politics, although it is a definate member of the war faction. The only Archangels known to regularly speak with it are Yves, Michael, Gabriel and Uriel (before his 'ascension'). The only thing that stirs even the slightest glimmer of passion in it's chill heart is the prospect of armaggeddon, when the unrighteous will be swept before the Host and cast into the pit. Word-bound servitors include Salekah, Angel of Genocide; Dumas, Ofanite Angel of Righteous Fury; Draven, Malakite Angel of Revenge; Kascalis, Elohite Angel of Murder and Justin, Seraph Angel of Cleansing (one of Uriel's highest ranking servitors) Appearence: In the celestial realms, Azrael appears as a standard member of it's choir, but with totally black skin and piercing steel-grey eyes. Corporeally, Azrael favours neither male or female form, but always appears as a tall, thin, pale skinned human with androgynous looks and long black hair. If circumstances require it, it will carry the scythe Vox Fini (final voice), it's personal weapon. All reports of it's use point to instantaneous soul-death of any being below superior status, and the only Superior to feel it's wrath, Am-Hashut, Prince of Hatred, was so sorely wounded that he posed no threat when Genubath made a violent play for his principality. Secret Songs: Azrael knows the Songs of Life, Oblivion, Poison and Retribution. Servitorsof Death have an affinity with the songs of Poison(Corp and Cel versions), and Retribution. Azrael and Saminga Azrael considers the insane Prince of Death as utterly beneath it's notice, and for his part, Saminga is perhaps just clever enough to realise that an attack on the Azrael would spell almost certain doom. Death's servitors however (on both sides) hate each other with an all consuming passion, and seek to destroy their counterparts at every turn. Unfortunately for the Diabolicals, Azrael's Servitors are better organised, and more ruthless. The only thing saminga has done that Azrael truly cannot stand are undead. No-one cheats the Angel of Death. NO-ONE! The Mark The Mark is a sign of God's disfavour. It is only inflicted upon those truly deserving of the Wrath of God, and is instantly recognisable to any celestial who views the inflicted. Angels shun these pariahs for obvious reasons, and demons avoid them because there are likely to be angels of death nearby. The Mark can only be bestowed in the following ways. - - By decree of God or The Seraphim Council - - By Azrael - - By a Master of God's vengence - - On an unfavourable 111 roll (ie the person who rolled it is hellsworn) The Mark only affects humans, but this includes sorcerors and undead. The effects of The Mark are as follows: - - The target immediately becomes Damned, as though they had fulfilled their fate. - - People react with aversion to the victim. Subtract -2 from any successful reaction rolls toward the character and add +2 to any failed reaction. - - they no longer recover essence by succeeding at their Greatest Gift (see corp players guide p20), and must make a will roll to regenerate any essence at noon. - - All interventions become unfavourable. Not even Lucifer will truck with these cursed beings. - - Damage done by Angels of Death cause no disturbance (up to and including being killed) - - Kyriotates and Shedim can no longer posess the victim using their resonance: the human is too damned to carry a kyriotate, and cannot be corrupted further by a shedite. The Song of possession works fine. The Mark can be removed in the following ways (although it rarely is) - - by decree of God or The Seraphim Council - - by Azrael or Yves - - on a 111 roll on a truly, utterly, selfless act. - - Fulfilling your Destiny. Dissonance It is dissonant for an angel of death to kill an innocent. This means anyone who is not sworn to hell, and who has not taken violent action against the angel. Celestials, Undead and Ethereals may be slaughtered with impunity. Anyone openly committing a crime or sinning in the presence of the angel becomes fair game. (see Loki in Dogma for an excellent example) Choir Attunements As well as the standard attunements the resonance of all Angels of Death except kyriotates automatically succeeds with a CD of 6 against any human bearing The Mark. Seraphim -R- Azrael's Seraphim act as divine coroners. Their resonance may be used on a body to determine the cause of death. A CD of 6 will also reveal if the body is in fact a Vessel. Cherubim -R- Are immune to their choir dissonance condition if their attuned bears The Mark. They also know the exact time, place and method of their attuned's death, barring celestial intervention. Ofanim -R- A Wheel of Death may use its resonance to detect the nearest Marked human within Total Forces miles. Their resonance only succeeds automatically against a marked human whose name they know. Elohim -- Death's Elohim automatically perceive disturbance (CD = EthForces) that involves the death of a human, if they would ordinarily have a change to perceive it (target number of 2+). if they want a better CD, they must roll normally. Malakim -- The darkest of a dark choir, Azrael's malakim add their Celestial forces to the power of any attack which hits (including ranged attacks). Kyriotates -R- Deaths Dominations may NOT (in fact cannot) enter a Marked host. Instead, they may add their Celestial Forces to any attempt to posess a human who is an aquaintance (friend, enemy, or family) of one who bears the Mark. They generate no dissonance if a host DIES while possesed, although the rest of their dissonance condition applies. Mercurians -R- Are immune to their choir dissonance condition relating to bearers of The Mark. With a resonance CD of 4+ the Mercurian will know if anyone close to the target will die within the next year. Servitor Attunements Pillar of Salt -- for 5 essence, and a will roll, the angel may inflict CDxTotal Forces body hits upon a target (ignoring Protection) . The target may resist with a Will roll of their own, minus the angel's celestial forces if distincted. If this kills the target, the body calcifies, shatters, and disappears in Total focres rnds. This causes 5 times the disturbance for killing a human (including force destruction) unless the human bears The Mark. The resonance CD modifiers do apply to this roll. (thats a possible 378 body hits for an angel with 18 forces, adding it's remaining 13 essence to the CD, and in contact with the target). Ethereal shields will block this attunement. Heavy Is the Tread -- The very presence of an Angel of Death is intimidating, and angels with this attunement may awe those in their presence. They gain a bonus to reaction rolls equal to their corporeal forces, but this reaction is always rooted in fear of the angel. Unlike free levels of charism , the angel may choose to retract this aura and roll reactions normally, but anyone who has been affected by the angel's aura before will automatically respond in a fearful manner. Speaker of Names -- With a Perception roll, the angel will know the name of any person they are talking to. Distinctions Vassal of Retribution -- With a perception roll, a Vassal of Death will know if someone within LOS is deserving of retribution (from any source). Friend of Death -- the angel becomes immune to trauma. Azrael's malakite Friends recorporealise 10xCelForces Yds away from their point of death, in an identical vessel (the old one disappears) 15-TotalForces minutes after death (15+ force angels reappear immediately) Master of God's Vengence -- This is the Biggie. A master of God's Vengence can, for the cost of 7 Essence, apply The Mark to a human within line of sight and earshot. In order to do this the angel must point to the human crying "! You are hated in God's sight, and shall heretofore bear The Mark of His Disfavour." this statement will be comprehended by the target regardless of language or even deafness, although onlookers will only understand if they speak whatever language the angel uses. This does not grant the ability to _remove_ The Mark. Only the methods mentioned above can do that. Misuse of this attunement (ie not against someone fully deserving of Divine Vengence) results in immediately acruing 1 point of dissonance, 1 level of the Merciful discord, and Azrael's personal attentions. Relations Azrael gets on very well with the war faction, naturally. Novalis comes as close to outright hatred as it is possible for the archangel of flowers to get. Yves just smiles ineffably. Allied: Michael, Laurence, David, Gabriel, Dominic Associated: Janus, Jordi. Neutral: All others, except Hostile: Novalis, Blandine Basic rites: - -- Sleep in a _consecrated_ cemetery for six hours - -- Destroy an Undead +2 - -- Kill a Marked human +3 essence Invocation chance: 0 Invocation modifiers +1 A corpse +2 A dead Demonic vessel or Destroyed Undead +3 The body of a Marked human, killed by your own hand +4 A Marked human, unrepentant, and continuing to offend God. +5 An act of Gross injustice, being perpetrated by an un-Marked human. +6 A grand act of vengance in progess Superior opinions will follow on Monday... - -FallenSeraph _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 10:47:29 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> How much do they know? I don't have a campaign to manage, but my own take would be: 1) In a way, the War is quite public. Everyone who grew up within shouting distance of Judaism, Christianity, Islam, or, for that matter, Zoroastrianism, knows there's a War on between good spirits and bad spirits. Details, of course, are scanty. 2) I doubt that direct experience of the War is a lot commoner among the corporeal Powers That Be than among the populace generally, except that-- 3) The spiritual leaders are likelier to have some limited amount of information. This would be people like the Pope, the Patriarch of Constantinople, the Dalai Lama, and figures less well-known outside their religious communities, but who are important within them and happen to, say, have been involved with "exorcisms" or to have "studied occultism." Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 16:00:26 -0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: Re: IN> Something Nasty: Azrael, Archangel of Death. Pt 1 Great take on the AA of Death. Nice servitor as well... >>Draven, Malakite Angel of Revenge; Cass - -There is no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole- Murphy's Law, Combatants Edition. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:31:10 -0500 From: "Daniel Gallagher" Subject: IN> Metropolitan NY Game or Gamers Needed. Hi, Um, It's been a while since I've posted to the list. This is mainly due to the fact that I've been in the process of moving to New York. Now I'm here, I've been her for a month and a half, I work all the time at a crappy manual labor job, I don't know anybody, and worst of all I haven't had a chance to RP in six months. I'd really appreciate it if someone would have pity on me and allow me into their game. If That's impossible, or there are no games, I could run something if there are interested players out there, failing all of this I would be interested in rnning a weekly IRC game. sincerly Daniel Archangel of Slackers "The world is... hey, pass the Doritos." ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2091 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.