--------------------GEV List Thingy, Oct 3rd.-------------------- From: sj@indial1.io.com (Steve Jackson) To: hcobb@fly2.berkeley.edu Subject: Re: GEV List Thingy, Oct 2nd. SJ oogs with anguish at the thought of hidden setup (and movement?!) rules. ___ [I was thinking more just for hidden deployment, but recon by fire, etc. does seem to work better with the hex grid than with miniatures. -HJC] ___ From: sj@indial1.io.com (Steve Jackson) To: hcobb@fly2.berkeley.edu Subject: Re: GEV List Thingy, Oct 2nd. I'm looking forward to some good comments from this list. Here's a batch of OGRE (miniatures) Q&A - most of which will be in the next PYRAMID, but I'll post them here as an introductory offering. (Thanks to Henry Cobb for most of these questions, and for his suggestions as to answers.) When infantry are involved in an overrun attack, the rules say that each squad fires and defends separately. What are the attack and defense values for each infantry squad? Each infantry unit attacks at a strength of 2 . . . the base attack value of an infantry squad is 1, and infantry have doubled attack strength in overrun. This is also true for militia. Heavy-weapon squads on the attacking side also have an attack strength of 1 (the missile they carry is not suitable for a setup that quick). But when heavy-weapon squads are on the defending side in an overrun, they can use their missile on the first fire round or any later one. However, it is not doubled in value because of the overrun; it still has an attack value of 3. (Note that this amplifies the information in Pyramid 2.) The base defense value for each battlesuited infantry squad is 1, and each infantry squad is a separate target in overrun. Militia, of course, have little defense. Double the attack strength of anything firing at militia in overrun. (Since all infantry is already doubled, that quadruples the final attack strength of infantry firing on militia.) Infantry on the defending side get all normal bonuses for terrain type, as well as for any revetments, walls, hulks, etc., that they may be ``behind'' with respect to the direction the attackers came from. It may occur to the attackers to take a circular route so that the cover will no longer be between them and the defenders . . . but if the defenders could reach protection by moving a few feet or jumping to the other side of a wall, they will, so such tactics will normally be meaningless. Be logical. Infantry on the attacking side do not get any bonus for terrain or cover. By definition, if they're on the attack, they're exposing themselves. Another note: Realistically, if several different kinds of infantry are involved in an overrun, the opponents won't have time to decide which ones to shoot at. Therefore, a random determination can be made as to which squads are actually lost, rather than letting the enemy target the HW squads, engineers, etc., first. If infantry entered the overrun combat riding on a vehicle, can they remount and continue their movement? No. The vehicles can continue their movement, but the infantry must stay where they are . . . the time to rendezvous and remount would take up the rest of the turn. Infantry riding a vehicle is considered stacked with that vehicle and shares the effect of attacks against it. But what's to stop infantry from dismounting at the end of each turn and remounting at the beginning of the next turn? Nothing . . . but the combat result should be the same. Therefore, if an infantry unit is touching a vehicle and therefore eligible to mount it next turn and move with it, treat that infantry unit as stacked with the vehicle for combat purposes. How many points does the GEV-PC cost? It says 6 on p. 13, but 3 in the reference table. The uncertainty has to do with an ongoing argument in the Ogre world about just how good the GEV-PC is. It has the attack ability of an LGEV, less movement but better defense . . . and neither the attack nor defense will matter much if the unit is properly used, because what it's for is shuttling infantry around the battlefield. The official point value is 6; in skilled hands, it's worth it. But if all you ever do with the GEV-PC is carry infantry into overrun attacks, or drop troops off at the front line and then suicide on the nearest Ogre, don't bother to take any at all . . . When a Cruise Missile goes off, what effect does it have on Ogre weapons within its blast radius? And are Cruise Missiles underpriced? Ogre weapon systems are treated exactly like ``units'' within range. So, for instance, an Ogre weapon between 6'' and 7'' away from the blast will suffer a 1-1 attack. I don't feel that they are underpriced, but I have observed that many players fail to defend effectively against Cruise Missiles. To take a Cruise Missile Crawler costs 18 points, so it must destroy, on average, 3 regular armor units. A CM fired from off the board costs 12 points, so it should destroy, on average, 2 units; reasonable, since it's easier to shoot down. Proper defensive tactics can limit your losses to an acceptable level. Facing an enemy with Cruise Missiles, you should take lasers if you can, and protect them! Either rush to close with the foe so he has to nuke his own units, or keep your units close enough together so that they can support each other with anti-missile fire. A loose wave of units is likely to be hurt badly by Cruise Missiles. A damaged and unsupported Ogre is meat for a missile. Having said that, I'll add that a scenario with a few Cruise Missiles is fun, but I wouldn't want to play with a lot of them. An exception might be a game in which an attacker starts off with a huge force, and undergoes Cruise Missile bombardment. He must then pull the survivors together and complete the mission while the small defending force tries to exploit his disruption with a counterattack. This would be a good test of tactical skill, since there's absolutely no telling what units, where, would survive the bombardment. Now, here's something that has NOT been seen elsewhere. Feedback appreciated . . . Proposed Superheavy Tank Rule Change After several years of combat experience, it really looks as though the Superheavy is a bit overpriced. It's very destructive, but it's therefore a priority target . . . and it only takes one X to silence both its guns. One solution would just be to make it a bit cheaper. But it seems like a better idea, more in keeping with the role of that particular unit, to make it harder to kill. Here's a proposed rule change to do that: An X result does not have a normal ``kill'' result against a Superheavy. The first X scored against a Superheavy merely disables it. If and when it recovers from that disabling, one of its guns is permanently lost. The unit now has an attack strength of 3; its stats are otherwise the same. If a damaged Superheavy receives another X result, it is destroyed. Damaging a Superheavy is worth 4 points; at the end of a scenario, a damaged Superheavy is worth 8 points to the owner. Whatever we decide for the Superheavy will also hold true for the Chinese "Ultraheavy" to be introduced in KILLING ZONE. ___ [How come the Engineers get to carry a full load of grenades, etc. in addition to their other junk? (i.e.: why are they doubled in overruns?) D'ed Superheavy gets X'ed => what? -HJC] ___ Subject: Re: GEV List Thingy, Oct 2nd. From: Christopher Camfield To: hcobb@fly2.berkeley.edu (Henry J. Cobb) Hmm, interesting! I never really thought about it all that much. :) If you could post this to the list, or whatever, now that I (finally) have my copies of GEV & OGRE with me, I would be very very happy to play with anyone who would like to play. I have Shockwave & the Reinforcement Pack too (kinda useful :) -- Christopher Camfield (ccamfiel@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca) These were the sins of Xavier's past hung like jewels in the forest of veils (Dead Can Dance, "Xavier") ___ [Maybe a contact list could be arranged, but I'm frobally not the one to do it. -HJC] Henry J. Cobb hcobb@fly2.berkeley.edu SFB Tyrant "The Clinton Health card, don't get pulled over without it!, but not to worry, its protected, by the clipper chip."