=============== OGRE/GEV list, August 4th (Last: July 28th) =============== ===== Unauthorized OGRE games From: sj@io.com (Steve Jackson) ===== Counter mix(ups) and balance. From: sj@IO.COM (Steve Jackson) ===== Results of GEV RAID Game #2. From: "Pelletier, Michael" ===== REPOST: The Computer Is Your Friend From: David Paulowich ===== VP for damaged Ogres From: sj@io.com (Steve Jackson) ------------------------------ To: hcobb@io.com From: sj@io.com (Steve Jackson) Subject: Unauthorized OGRE games Not long ago. Jack Thomas posted a mention of CIRCA 7000, a very good shareware game that had a scenario for Ogre (and, I learned, one for Car Wars as well). Ooops. Though created in good faith by fans, these represent trademark threats to me (and the Car Wars game actually violated the rights of VictorMaxx). After reading the web site, I called Boku and talked to the creator of the game, explaining the situation. He was extremely polite and understanding. Those scenarios are gone. If they reappear (and I hope they do) it will be with different names, and with enough serial numbers filed off to avoid threatening my marks. I do NOT own the concept of cars-with-guns, or of Real Big Tanks . . . just the specific trademarks and world backgrounds that we have built up over the decades. (Yeah, decades!) The alternative would have been to go through a formal license, which was not worth the trouble for either of us. I don't enjoy telling fans they can't do what they want, but I didn't write the trademark law . . . I just have to live with it. And distributing unofficial OGRE and CAR WARS computer games is very clearly a total no-no. If I let it happen, I can lose my rights to the marks. Similarly, I've recently found a couple of "archives" on the web which contained pirated, cracked disk images of the original OGRE game from Origin Systems. Used to be, pirates were surreptitious little d00dz. Now they have award-winning web sites and sell advertising. If you let me know about things like this as you encounter them, you'll help me police the mark, and improve the odds that I can someday conclude a real deal for Computer Ogre again, or actually publish a computer Ogre right here. And yes, that might really happen. Cross your fingers. Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the Secret Service case Learn Web or die - http://www.io.com/sjgames/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua! The heck with PGP keys; finger for Geek Code. Fnord. ------------------------------ To: "Henry J. Cobb" From: sj@IO.COM (Steve Jackson) Subject: Counter mix(ups) and balance. Look us up at GenCon - we will probably have some old Ogre/GEV maps on the table - we recently found a little stack of them. With regard to counter mixes: the idea at the time of the original Microgame was that force mixes would be constrained by available counters. Then the cheap print job of the counters made the two shades of gray look the same, increasing the available pool of GEVs remarkably . . . After that I woke up and started planning unit costs and scenario balance on the assumption that players WOULD find or make extra counters, just as I had been doing as a player in TRIPLANETARY and other favorite games. Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the Secret Service case Learn Web or die - http://www.io.com/sjgames/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua! The heck with PGP keys; finger for Geek Code. Fnord. ------------------------------ From: "Pelletier, Michael" Subject: Results of GEV RAID Game #2. To: hcobb@slip.net Tom B. the PanEuropean (sanddllr@erols.com) and grendel@cdsnet.net (Combine) squared off in the 2nd basic RAID game in July after switching sides from the June game. Again, sanddllr@erols.com won a Decisive Victory over Grendel@cdsnet.net. By using a Western Attack formation, the Combine overran the 2 Western defending PanE GEVs and blew them away. This opened up the entire Western side of the map while the PanE infantry were outflanked by the fast moving GEVs. The Combine made it up to the North-Western most cities and just missed CP Alpha when a PanE Reinforcing Heavy Tank chased them away. The Combine then swiftly moved to the major block of cities in the South East, blew the main river bridge and 'WREAKED HAVOC"!! The PanE Heavy Tanks moved too slowly to get to the other side of the Main River Bridge. Due to a vital PanE error of leaving a reinforcing GEV on the main river bridge while it was about to be blown proved fatal. The game started 2 July and ended 29 July. Anyone wanting to play by E mail, I have a 3rd map ready to go now, just drop me a note at peletier@busstop.com or mjpelle2@amp.com I am now playing a game with sanddllr@erols.com to deflate his ego just a bit. ------------------------------ To: hcobb@IO.COM From: David Paulowich Subject: REPOST: The Computer Is Your Friend Trust The Computer. The Computer says I EMailed "COMPUTER HEXMAPS FOR OGRE AND GEV" at 20:19 July 6th and (part 2) at 11:49 July 8th. The Computer says that two attempts to send the copy I had promised Peter were bounced back by a defunct EMail account. The Computer is never wrong. The Computer did not tell me what had happened to the original two parts, and I thought that they had failed to reach Henry Cobb. Thinking is wrong. The Computer will do all your thinking for you. The Computer says I Emailed a revised version (with the two parts now combined into a single message) titled "COMPUTER HEXMAPS" at 19:54 on July 17th. On July 18th The Computer posted the results of a head-on collision between the July 6th and 17th messages. The Computer will resume normal service as soon as possible. Do-it-yourself time. The final draft can be recovered by pasting my July 18th posting into a text editor and FIRST: deleting the phrase "FOR OGRE AND GEV" from the subject heading, SECOND: deleting the a third of the post, starting at the beginning, and keeping the portion that runs from "Imagine your computer" to "Signing off now ..." The Computer reminds me that I did not give any advice on how to calculate hex distances for the new editions of GEV and SHOCKWAVE. Let The Computer do the job itself! If you have those four formulas entered in - then, for example, G0123 and S2301 on a side-by-side map arrangement will translate to hexes 5072 and 5028, which are 44 hexes apart (by the DISTANCE formula). You are free to use this result, while ignoring the internal workings of The Computer. David Paulowich paulo@cdngateway.pe.ca CYBERTANK DIVISION FNORD MOTOR COMPANY ------------------------------ To: hcobb@io.com, arclight@deliverator.io.com, rmeaden@aol.com From: sj@io.com (Steve Jackson) Subject: VP for damaged Ogres Finally, this is dealt with. I would like to consider damaged Ogres in the miniatures game a settled issue. Thanks for the help on this. Henry, this is a submission for the list. I have dealt with the Mk-I problem that you raised, though not in the way you suggested; I really like 1 VP per tread. Bob, please update the Ogre errata page, unless that has already been handed off to Richard. Richard, this is FYI unless you are now officially doing Ogre errata pages (which would be fine with me.) Shall we say that you are? Ogre Miniatures does not explicitly repeat the damaged-Ogre VP rules from G.E.V. It should. The following material should be referenced on pp. 8 and 56, where victory points are discussed: When enemy Ogres are damaged, but not destroyed, victory points are also scored for destroying Ogre weapons and tread units, as follows: Main Battery: 8 points Secondary Battery: 4 points Missile: 1 point Missile Rack: 6 points Antipersonnel: 1 point Destroyed tread units are worth 1 point each. The points gained from destroying parts of an Ogre may never exceed the VP value of the original, intact Ogre. Note that some scenarios may place a higher or lower value on specific Ogre systems and weapons, depending on the tactical situation. Note also that players can score points for enemy armor units which are immobilized or stuck in areas they control at the end of the game . . . these count as being captured! Enemy Heavy and Superheavy Tanks stuck in swamp at the end of a scenario count as double their point value. Some scenarios may offer other ways to capture enemy units; it need not be assumed that every soldier will fight to the death. Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the Secret Service case Learn Web or die - http://www.io.com/sjgames/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua! The heck with PGP keys; finger for Geek Code. Fnord. ----- [Essentially: stop counting the damage, when he's too busted to bother repairing. But why 1 VP/tread? I've never been able to factor that into the OGRE design formulas and the double Tread Repair Payload (please don't ask ME about this one, it's a secret!) can fix an average of seven threads per turn forever. -HJC] Henry J. Cobb hcobb@io.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 1996, by Steve Jackson Games.