=============== OGRE/GEV list, Feb 5th (Last: Feb 1st) =============== ===== OGRE Minis and other products From: "Peter S. Rabinowitz" ===== Forward Observers for OGRE. From: tulloh@wsmr-emh91.army.mil (Dan Tulloh) ===== OGREs vs. Cybergrunts From: Vance Geisler From: marms@nmol.com ===== OGRE/GEV Thoughts From: Steve Hodsdon <103365.656@compuserve.com> ------------------------------ From: "Peter S. Rabinowitz" To: "Henry J. Cobb" Subject: OGRE Minis and other products OK, so I have OGRE and its cool. I here some things about minis and it sounds cool, but all I see in the SJ catalog is minis rules. So where are the minis? Am I missing something? What is availible for Ogre minis? Peter Rabinowitz | SUNY @ Buffalo | psr@acsu.buffalo.edu http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~psr/ | (716) 645 5465 | V127MHSK@ubvms.bitnet ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Son, I am able," she said, "though you scare me." "Watch," said I, "beloved." ----- [No, the only items currently in print are OGRE Minis and the OGRE/GEV combined set, AFAIK. As for the minis, I took a field trip to Toys R'Us to see if I could spot anything reasonable, but the Micro Machines are a bit too large, and N-scale military vehicles are also a bit too large. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: tulloh@wsmr-emh91.army.mil (Dan Tulloh) Subject: Forward Observers for OGRE. To: hcobb@io.com Henry, I'm kind of dubious about the use of FO's in OGRE, for a variety of reasons. Using an Unmanned Air Vehicle (UAV) for a spotter makes a lot more sense to me. Has there been any discussion about attempting to portray the effects of smoke, chaff, etc? Dan Tulloh --------+-------- X USA TRAC-WSMR _/~T~~~~~~~=======/ ________ CASTFOREM Development Team -------- | ~~~~~> COMM: (505) 678-4426 DSN: 258 Fax: 5104 \OoOoOoOoOoOoOoO/ Email: tulloh@wsmr-emh91.army.mil ----- [Well, the Sci-Fi rationale I'm working from is that the missiles have two modes available, one is a maximum evasion mode (which quickly burns up their fuel) and the other is a not quite maximum evasion mode (which extends the range a bit, but leaves the missiles as "sitting ducks" for point defenses.) So I look up FM 6-30 (Observed Fire), and they state that the grunts must call for an Air-support mission, point their designators at the target and arrange for artillery fire to suppress enemy air defences. So, when organic anti-air abilities become so dense that they're swatting even the missiles from the air, it's up to the grunts to "fight the rounds in", and their large numbers of short ranged weapons are exactly what's needed. As for obscuration, everything is being jammed, OGREs simply wouldn't make any sense otherwise. The only weapons with any range are the ones that can extend sensors forward. As for the lasers, these beams can cut through armor that nukes need direct hits to hurt, I think they must be X-ray lasers. -HJC] ------------------------------ To: "Henry J. Cobb" From: Vance Geisler Subject: OGREs vs. Cybergrunts I guess my babbling somehow lost my point. What I was trying to say is that if new units, which were effective, appeared against an OGRE its design would change accordingly. Also, I wasn't suggesting OGREs vs. Cyborgs but rather that the Cyborgs could possibly be part of an OGRE force...You know the classic alliance of armor supporting infantry and vise versa. An OGRE is huge. Cyborgs could load into an OGRE for transport and protection and possibly be let out of the back of it or even ejected unit by unit in disposable pods. Cyborgs seem to be tough by general reputation and don't need many supporting facilities--well compared to humans anyway. The computer idea sounds great, but I don't know how much time I could personally dedicate to it. I'm in the middle of a career transition from a Civil Engineer to an Electrical Engineer and the time demand is ferocious... When I started playing OGRE in the 70's, there wasn't a supporting history. So if I seem off suggesting OGRE design evolution, bear with me. Watch out new unit creators! The new experimental OGRE flagship is on the way to maintain the balance of the game universe! Early intellegence reports indicate the incorporation of new advanced technologies...the new flagship may be equipped with a devastating short range nuetron particle cannon. ----- [OGREs are huge, but not hollow, they are almost entirely solid armor, this allows them to survive multiple nuclear hits. As for the cyborgs, or any other new units, their costs and benifits need to be compared with existing units, and the unit they'd compare most closely to are battlesuited infantry. The advantage of a cyborg over a suited grunt is that it doesn't have to lug a human body around, this would be a great advantage if your brain was many times tougher than your body. (it isn't). The disadvatages of a Cyborg over a suit is that the Cyborg must include very sophisticated, high maintenance equipment to protect and nurture that human brain, and if something go wrong with the suit, you can take it off and turn it off. -HJC] ----- From: marms@nmol.com Subject: OGREs vs. Cybergrunts To: hcobb@io.com via e-mail, Vance Geisler (vgeisler@ix.netcom.com) wrote: >By the way, my last comment really wasn't about Cyborgs vs. OGREs. >Somehow my point was lost. The point was if new units, which are >effective, appear against an OGRE, the combine would alter its design >accordingly. I'm thinking too that Cyborg humanoids units could be >loaded into an OGRE and released out the back or ejected from the >OGRE in disposable pods in a radius of some numb Yep, I got that. Seems reasonable. But remember, this is not Fred Saberhagen's "Berserker" universe. While the Ogre is an un-manned and totally AI-controlled vehicle, it is not a self-motivated, "kill all life" doomsday engine (as the Berserkers are). Given that, it could be reasonable that a warring nation could put normal or elite human infantry on-board an Ogre (assuming it could have a well-shielded troop chamber) specifically for greater anti-personnel or the actual capture and holding of cities, laser towers, Victory Point targets, etc. This would allow the Ogre to keep moving on to other objectives. This seems reasonable as the destruction of an objective (a task the Ogre is well suited to) is not always the best approach. Sometimes control is the goal. And control generally needs troops. Mike Arms marms@nmol.com or marms@sandia.gov = Free Internet e-mail services on New Mexico Online - Try Us = = BBS: 505-244-0000 Telnet: nmol.com = ----- [The problem with any life-form on board an ogre isn't shielding, it's the shock of having multiple nuclear blasts bouncing off the hull. "OK guys, I've reached the objective, time to get out there and take it! Uh guys, are you humans really supposed to be spread out like jelly?" It's much better all around for the grunts to follow in on GEV-PCs. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: Steve Hodsdon <103365.656@compuserve.com> To: "\"Henry J. Cobb\"" Subject: OGRE/GEV Thoughts Hi Henry, I grabbed the old mailings from your web page as well as all I could get from the SJG webpage (on Ogre). A lot of food for thought. RE: the Armor and Airstrike "modules" found at SJG. Do you know if there were maps/counters drawn? If so, can we get to see them? Re: Computer Ogre I started working on a wargame engine at the end of last year. I was going to use the Ogre/GEV universe for testing. (Small map, limited unit selection, etc). I haven't done much with it this year (having received Steel Panthers for Xmas :) ), but if there is an interest, I'll go back to work on it. (I was serious enough about it that I found a copy of the old Ogre/GEV box set as well as mint copies of GEV, Shockwave, and the Ogre Expansion set.) This is what I planned to use for the initial computer design. I haven't seen any miniature rules yet so I plan on using the hex grid maps... Anyone have input on what they would like to see in it? On a related note... How about making available player generated scenario ideas on the web page? An on-line "Ogre Book II"... Think about it... :) Steve ----- [Basically, the OGRE Minis rules are everything from all the supplements rolled together with a few new units and considerable terrain added. The conversion between the hex game and the Minis is that you take all distances as one hex equals two inches, units can move in any direction and there are "attack templates" to handle spillover fire, but it's really just GEV, cleaned up a bit. -HJC] Henry J. Cobb hcobb@io.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 1996, by Steve Jackson Games.