=============== OGRE/GEV list, Feb 7th (Last: Feb 5th) =============== ===== OGRE Minis From: AEW@unh.edu (Allan Wright) ===== Why the OGRE-PC is a bad idea. From: Chris Camfield ===== 1) new units; 2) Computer Ogre; 3) minis From: "Peter S. Rabinowitz" ===== The Paneuropean Centurion From: RMeaden@aol.com ===== Forward Observers for OGRE. ===== OGREs vs. Cybergrunts ===== OGRE/GEV Thoughts ------------------------------ From: AEW@unh.edu (Allan Wright) Subject: OGRE Minis To: hcobb@io.com Someone asked about OGRE minis a while back. Before there was an OGRE minis rule set I started collecting and painting Battletech minis as OGRE/GEV minis. The infantry, some tanks, Missile tanks (on wheels not treads), GEVs, etc. A lot of the line looked like it fell right out of the GEV world. After that whoever did those minis (I think) eventually did the SJG minis. I never bought any of the minis especially made for OGRE/GEV but they were obviously similar scales. Anyways, I'll check out what I have left (in a shoebox somewhere) and post an inventory here later. I don't use them anymore and would be willing to let them go for a song. -Al ------------------------------ From: Chris Camfield Subject: Why the OGRE-PC is a bad idea. To: hcobb@io.com If you put cyborgs/MI inside an Ogre, they have to sit/stand somewhere, and they have to enter and exit, too. Sounds like there would be a weak spot in the armour which could and would be exploited. How were the GEV rules "cleaned up" for the miniatures rules? I don't have 'em. Chris PS In the copyright notice, what is the meaning of "OGRE-related items"? Is this email message an "OGRE-related item"? Christopher Camfield ccamfiel@uwaterloo.ca 1996 BMath Joint CS/C&O [1999 BA Classical Studies] "When I was your age, television was called BOOKS" -- The Princess Bride ----- [Well, you could go to the SJG web page and place an order for the Minis rulebook... My best model for what "this" is, is that it's a newsletter published by SJG, I'm the editor and your messages are letters to the editor. As such, SJG has a copyright over the entire collection, and republication is an issue for Mr Jackson to deal with. This is a significantly different setup than my current SFB stuff, or my previous GEV newsletter, but the support is better. My intention is to move the web-side of the newsletter over with the other OGRE pages (in the SJG section, when I and they have time to sort things out) to more clearly denote the differences between what I'm doing as a private web citizen vs. what I'm doing for SJG. If you like, you can think of this as being a fan club without dues. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: "Peter S. Rabinowitz" To: "Henry J. Cobb" Subject: 1) new units; 2) Computer Ogre; 3) minis 1) I'm new to this game, so take this observation accordingly. It seems the game was designed with a certain balance in mind. While I can understand the urge to try new unit designs here and there, it seems that too much would completely alter the game. I'm hearing things on this list like air support, smart missles, and other radical things. All I'm saying is one must be carful of making the game too complicated. Now, a computer program would make many things possible which would be too cumbersome on a real board. Which brings me to #2. 2) I have this tendancy to try to computerize things. As soon as I got my hand on Ogre, I saw how a computer version would be really useful. So I've started designing one. My implementation would be a direct conversion of Ogre to the computer. G.E.V. rules shouldn't be too difficult to tack on later. Also, a factory for designing new units and Ogres should be easy to implement. I've heard there was a computer version some time ago and it's out of print. Does anyone want to sell me theirs? As a quick designer's note, hexes are a pain for a computer game. Rectangles are so much easier. I wonder if making the map rectangular would change the game to much? Comments? 3) Someone commented on Micro Machines being too large. What about those vinyl hex maps I see in gaming stores? Those hexes are bigger I think. Whew! Peter Rabinowitz | SUNY @ Buffalo | psr@acsu.buffalo.edu http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~psr/ | (716) 645 5465 | V127MHSK@ubvms.bitnet "Son, I am able," she said, "though you scare me." "Watch," said I, "beloved." ----- [Why not use fractional positions and trig to move about? -HJC] ------------------------------ From: RMeaden@aol.com To: hcobb@io.com Subject: The Paneuropean Centurion I bet the cybertank research programs during the Last War produced all kinds of interesting one-off or limited run Ogre variants. The Combine and Paneuropean Skunk Works widely experimented with upgrades and variants of existing Marks. One limited-run trial was the Paneuropean Centurion, a late-War attempt to upgun the Legionnaire: 1 Main Battery (4/6" D4) O 6 Secondary Battery (3/4" D3) OOO OOO 2 Missiles (6/10" D3) OO 2 Missiles (vulnerable) (6/10" D2) OO 6 Antipersonnel (1/2" D1) OOO OOO 56 Treads (movement starts at 6") OOOOO OOOOO (5") OOOOO OOOOO (4") OOOO OOOO (3") OOOO OOOO (2") OOOO OOOO (1") OOOO OOOO (0") All were deployed (which numbered 10-12 units) in the Sahara Combat Zone, and were upgraded at the Tripoli Staging Complex. The attempt to speed up the Centurion thru larger tread and power sources failed, but made its treads a little harder to slow down, at least initially. Adding two more 2ndaries was not too difficult, and worked as planned. To add the two new Missile launchers, two AP turrets had to be removed. However, due to their almost 'bolted on' nature and the improper use is signal-suppressing coatings, the two new missiles had proven a little more vulnerable to attack. It is unknown if any survived into the Factory States, and no templates or software exists, as all were upgrades conducted in the field. The Centurion was fielded in the fall of 2088. How to make a Centurion: Since the Centurion is a variant of the Mk III, we can use everything except the conning tower. The Centurion had no tower - instead it had an armored 'mantle' similar to the 'head' found on the Fencer. Putting on the two additional 2ndaries is easy - just drill two holes in the big space after the last 2 existing 2ndaries. For the two additional Missiles, first shave off the two AP turrets that sit next to the existing Missiles. You can make the two new Missile boxes any way you want, but make them look flimsy compared to the two installed at time of the original unit's fabrication. For the treads, shave off the almost non-existant pins on the top of the treads, and glue the treads out 2mm beyond where they are normally meant to be - this is to make them look a little wider. Finally, add some styrene card onto the existing armor skirt, to make them look a little more armored. Voila - an instant, ultra-ugly Centurion! Point value? Let's say something between 110 - 120, maybe a bit more, maybe less. Constructive comments valued. My intention is NOT to attempt to produce der Master Race of unbeatable cybertanks, just logical, usually imperfect designs. Oh yeah, for those with the Killing Zone playtest (does playtesting exist, or is it just me?), in battles taking place after 2089 - Centurions always had Drone racks. -- Richard Meaden -- ----- [Playtest rules? Wish I could get them. Thread units seem to be fixed on the hull size, with improvements in technology giving more "lift" for a given mass of threads over time. (At least that's how I did it, last time I had an OGRE cost formula). So the III-B has the same thread mass as the Mk III, but carries more due to design evolution. OGRE Thread "width" Total weapon defense ratio total/move (AP & Missiles are 1/3) Mk-I 3 5 1.67 Mk-II 6 12 2.00 Mk-III 8 20 2.50 Fencer 8 24 3.00 III-B 8 26 3.25 Mk-IV 7 24 3.42 Mk-V 10 36 3.60 Ninja 5 18 3.60 Mk-VI 12 43 3.58 Doppel 10 42 4.20 So there seems to be five generations of thread technology, with the only real outlier being the Doppel. (With it's own special commentary). Note that these numbers do not adjust for the central OGRE computing and power core, so I doubt very much that the "lift" power increased two-fold between the Mk-I and the Mk-V. -HJC] Henry J. Cobb hcobb@io.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 1996, by Steve Jackson Games.