=============== OGRE/GEV list, Feb 11th (Last: Feb 7th) =============== ===== Why the OGRE-PC is a bad idea. From: Alan.Hench@mail.utexas.edu (Alan A. Hench) ------------------------------ To: "Henry J. Cobb" From: Alan.Hench@mail.utexas.edu (Alan A. Hench) Subject: Why the OGRE-PC is a bad idea. > As for the cyborgs, or any other new units, their costs and benefits >need to be compared with existing units, and the unit they'd compare >most closely to are battlesuited infantry. > > The advantage of a cyborg over a suited grunt is that it doesn't >have to lug a human body around, this would be a great advantage if your >brain was many times tougher than your body. (it isn't). > > The disadvantages of a Cyborg over a suit is that the Cyborg must >include very sophisticated, high maintenance equipment to protect and >nurture that human brain, and if something go wrong with the suit, you >can take it off and turn it off. -HJC] > [The problem with any life-form on board an ogre isn't shielding, >it's the shock of having multiple nuclear blasts bouncing off the hull. How about RIVETS? In the old Ogre Book, there was a set of rules for converting Ogre to RIVETS. Since we're talking about Ogre/GEV, it would be a bad idea to do that. So why not convert the RIVETS units to Ogre/GEV? You'd then have small, independently mobile units which don't have an organic brain to worry about. The Ogre would effectively act as the BCPC for the Boppers it controls. A RIVETS hex would be about 4/3 of an Ogre Mini inch. So most of the Boppers would have a range of only 1". The exceptions would be the Big Bopper and Rocket Bopper. The problem with those units is that their strength in RIVETS dropped with range. That's not how things work in Ogre/GEV. When I originally came up with this idea, I gave most of the Boppers a 0 range in Ogre/GEV. Their attack strength would then be their unmodified close assault value. I cut the Big Bopper and Rocket Bopper attacks in half to get the average value, but allowed them to double that for close assaults. I don't know whether the same thing would be appropriate in Ogre Mini. Since the Ogre acts as a Bopper BCPC, that suggests that given the materials, the Ogre could actually PRODUCE new Boppers to replace losses. The Boppers themselves could be used to scavenge for the materials from the surrounding territory. The programming of the Boppers in RIVETS was an important part of the game. Each type of Bopper on a side could only attack one other type on the other side. Should this restriction be maintained if Boppers are brought into the Ogre/GEV world? Would the extra bookkeeping be prohibitive? >If you put cyborgs/MI inside an Ogre, they have to sit/stand >somewhere, and they have to enter and exit, too. Sounds like >there would be a weak spot in the armour which could and would >be exploited. This could still be a concern. But what if that weak spot was on the bottom of the Ogre, between the treads? Perhaps the simplest way to handle this would be to give the BCPC portion of the Ogre its own defense, and make that defense lower than the harder targets on the Ogre. You'd then be showing the weakness, and what the results of exploiting it would be (the destruction of the BCPC complex in the Ogre). >From the RIVETS preface: " The appearance of the BOPPERS was prompted by economic factors and the types of coincidences that only occur in real life or in a bad science fiction novel. The major military powers in the later 21st century centered their strategies around the large cybertanks called Orcs?, Trolls?, some funny name (see Microgame 1 [Ogre]); anyway, the Third World powers also wanted cybertanks, but the price tag was too high. Imagine Ecuador trying to buy a Nimitz class carrier. .... The BOPPERS sold like the proverbial hotcakes. Their popularity was due in part to their cost. They were VERY cheap. They were also easy to maintain, and didn't require a high technology to support them. Of course, the BOPPERS were much smaller than the cybertanks; they were extremely easy to destroy, and their programming was quite limited. ...." [Where do you think the Rangers like to leave their limpet mines? (Normally OGREs don't get thread-kills against infantry...) The question is: if the OGREs could be built with a productive capacity (and remember that the OGRE universe is very hard on AI units), why not use it to repair damage to the unit itself, or cut out this capacity and get a smaller, leaner, harder target? As for minis sources, I've picked up some Ral Partha "Battletech" Kuita Infantry (in 1:200 scale) and some Modern Micro Armor from GHQ (in the correct 1:285 scale). I'll paint the Leopards in "Snow Leopard" cammo, but I haven't decided on the Infantry yet, they seem to be unarmored militia. (Pity "Murphy's Rules" is no more: "And you think acid rain is bad now. In the 21st century of OGRE, unprotected humans cannot swim" (Insert picture of skeleton washed up on a beach)) The Infantry is mounted as three figure platoons in line formation. (Which is somewhat unwise for Militia). Speaking of splitting up the infantry, has anybody tried the Advanced OGRE scenario as such: 20 GEVS at the crater line, 30 separated squads of Infantry at the south edge of the obstructed area. The defense is under the following restrictions: The Infantry may not combine into multi-squad hexes when non-adjacent to the OGRE, the GEVs get first pick of hexes to travel to (further limiting the Infantry's movements, and spreading them out) and must move each turn to either attack the OGRE (and retreat and spread out as much as possible after that attack), or if that GEV cannot attack the OGRE this turn, it must move to be just outside the OGRE's gun range (this can be inside missile range, but outside move plus longest surviving gun's range). The defender must kill the Main batteries and then switch targets to the thread units (until the OGRE runs out). The only occasion where the defender may target a Missile, is when the OGRE can use that missile to kill the CP the very next turn. This is of course, all based on the curious fact that the Mk-Vs main firepower is those six secondary batteries, and so attempts to starve those batteries of targets to lock onto. -HJC] Henry J. Cobb hcobb@io.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 1996, by Steve Jackson Games.