=============== OGRE/GEV list, Feb 16th (Last: Feb 11th) =============== ===== Comments on the Centurion From: panzer@Okway.okstate.edu (Peter Von Groote) ===== Why the OGRE-PC is a bad idea. From: Alan.Hench@mail.utexas.edu (Alan A. Hench) ------------------------------ From: panzer@Okway.okstate.edu (Peter Von Groote) Subject: Comments on the Centurion To: hcobb@io.com We've looked the Centurion over and, for a poor man's Mk. V, it's not bad. The only problem we had was with the extra missiles. Their fragility means that they had better be the first ordnance used. They are 33% less well protected and thus that much more vulnerable to artillery. We say up them to standard silos and give it the 120 point value. On another point, why was the 'conning' tower removed? These are upgraded Legionnaires, yes? Well, if I remember it right, aren't the Combine Mk. III and the Paneuro Legionnaire "identical in all but allegiance" acording to the miniatures rules? It seems unneccessary to do the body job. Just adding our Zwei pfennig! Peter von Groote for Kampfgruppe Tiger ------------------------------ To: "Henry J. Cobb" From: Alan.Hench@mail.utexas.edu (Alan A. Hench) Subject: Why the OGRE-PC is a bad idea. > [Where do you think the Rangers like to leave their limpet mines? >(Normally OGREs don't get thread-kills against infantry...) Easily simulated. Make the Ogre BCPC vulnerable only to infantry in close assault, and give it a low defense like 1 or 2. Of course, any Boppers still in holding will probably be popped out to protect the BCPC. Imagine a pitched battle between battlesuit infantry and Boppers underneath an Ogre. > The question is: if the OGREs could be built with a productive >capacity (and remember that the OGRE universe is very hard on AI units), >why not use it to repair damage to the unit itself, or cut out this >capacity and get a smaller, leaner, harder target? How would the Ogre get the raw materials into the production facility? How would it dismantle damaged equipment? How would it clear away destroyed equipment? How would it put new equipment into place? A production facility alone in an Ogre is indeed a waste of space. But if that facility is combined with Boppers to act as remote arms, it then becomes quite viable. The Boppers would scavange the raw materials. They could clear away old equipment and install replacements. The Ogre and Boppers would survive in a symbiotic relationship. The Boppers would depend on the Ogre to protect them and convert opposing units into raw material and then new Boppers;). The Ogre would depend on the Boppers to scavange raw material, effect repairs, and provide protection. What kind of protection could a lowly Bopper provide for an Ogre? Well, think of the threats an Ogre faces. A well emplaced infantry ambush could do a lot of damage to an Ogre. A few Boppers as an advance gaurd could flush them out. the Ogre only has so many weapons. If there's enough defenders, it will have to concentrate on a few at a time. Meanwhile the rest will take the Ogre apart bit by bit. A force of Boppers could keep the smaller defenders occupied until the more dangerous ones were eliminated by the big guns. A howitzer makes one big attack. Instead of charging into the howitzers and taking the damage, the Ogre could send in a bunch of Boppers. The howitzers could only kill them so fast. Apparently there have been all sorts of Ogre designs over the course of the war. For a nation that can field multiple Ogres, Boppers shouldn't pose any sort of technological challenge. Some designs may appear great on appear, and then turn out to have a fatal flaw in battle. Others may look insane, but somehow work out fine in some circumstances. Putting a BCPC in an Ogre would make it bigger and slower. But it would also add a flexibility of operation no other Ogre possesses. Whether this advantage would outweigh the disadvantages could only be determined in the heat of battle, over the course of a campaign. One area where I can see an Ogre/BCPC being particularly effective would be in a prolonged attack deep in enemy territory. A standard Ogre attacking far from home would have to return after just a few raids to have its damage repaired. This limits how much damage it can do before the long journey home. But an Ogre/BCPC could effect its own field repairs. It could strike and withdraw, hide and repair, and then strike again. Eventually it would be tracked down and destroyed, but it would have done more damage and drawn off a greater enemy force than any standard Ogre. ----- [If you just want an OGRE with a repair capacity and "mechanic" drones, then turn to page 12 of the OGRE-minis book. Anybody seen Vulcan rules yet?, or do I take my own stab at it? (If I do, I'll base it on the "Unauthorised Berserker Repair Kit" article, by a Mr Jackson, I believe.) -HJC] Henry J. Cobb hcobb@io.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 1996, by Steve Jackson Games.