============ OGRE/GEV list, October 27th (Last: October 22nd) ============= ===== Where to send questions? From: fish ===== Ogre Minis. From: "Devir Livraria Ltda." ===== Shockwave Counters From: fish ===== More Questions From: fish ===== Aide De Camp PBEM Ogre/GEV From: sj@io.com (Steve Jackson) ===== The LGEV-PC, Take Two From: fish ===== Some other random questions From: fish ------------------------------ From: fish Subject: Where to send questions? I've been sending all of my questions/nitpicks to this list (as you've probably noticed) -- is that where they should be going? Should I send ruling questions and/or errata questions into pyramid@io.com? sjg-errata@io.com? I'd like to know because i've got another batch of queries waiting in the wings... <>< fish ><> (fnord.) ----- [I don't mind, if I can't find a rule, I'll just let it pass through. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: "Devir Livraria Ltda." Subject: Ogre Minis. Hi! My name's Thad Blanchette and I'm a bigtime Ogre fan. I bought my first copy when I was 11 some 18 years ago and I think I've picked up at least one of each Ogre related item that Steve has put out over the years. I've been following this board for about six months now, but I've never been able to get a message on as the phone system here in Brazil basically consists of tin cans strung together with old kite chords; yeah, retrotech at its finest. Now that our mailserver is actually working, I can finally send something in.... Over the months, I've been reading alot of gripes by people saying they can't find minis for Ogre. Well, Geohex in Portland Oregon has an absolutely smashing set of sci-fi figs. They're a bit more "high tech" than the stuff seen in the Ogre universe, but I find them much better looking than Ral Partha's Btech stuff, which everyone seems to be using. BTW, was anyone else disappointed with Ral's Combine tank figures? I liked the GEV, the Msl and the Hwtz but the rest.... Sheesh, the Combine light tank looks like it was modelled off of a French Schneider (sp?), one of the first tanks developed for WWI. It looks like a row-boat with a gun glued on to it fer crissake! And the heavy.... The tanks also look too big when compared to their Paneuro counterparts. I hope they'll eventually be redone when the new edition comes out. ------------------------------ From: fish Subject: Shockwave Counters I seem to recall someone asking if it was possible to place the silhouettes (sp?) of the small counters for the Shockwave/Ogre Minis on the web, so those of us who don't have access to Shockwave could make our own counters, but I don't remember the answer. Would this be a Bad Thing (like would legal@io.com hear of it and not be amused) or what? If it's okay, would someone be willing to do so? The reason I ask: I don't really have enough miniatures to play even moderately large (50-75 point) scenarios, because I'm not really willing to shell out a whole load of money for Battletech minis that I probably won't use after (if) the new Ogre minis come out. So I find myself playing GEV a fair amount, using units like the GEV-PC and SHVY... unfortunately, i've only got counters from Ogre/GEV, and so i end up using MkII counters for SHVYs and random bits of scrap for GEV-PCs and hovertrucks and stuff. Speaking of GEV-PCs... I played a (75-point) version of Ceasefire Collapse the other day, using a mechanized heavy weapons company, and they did pretty well against a mixed bag of SHVYs, HVYs, and GEVs. The company stats: 3 platoons HW Infantry, on GEV-PCs (18 pts/platoon) 1 platoon Infantry, on 3 LGEV-PCs (15 pts) 1 MSL-GEV (6 pts) <-- in its D2 M3/2 A2/3 incarnation The normal infantry were on LGEV-PCs (does anyone else use these? i know they're not official) for flexibility, because I was also using the Forward Observer rules from a few months ago, allowing the MSL-GEV to fire five hexes and the HWI six. Pretty interesting tactical situation sort of a very flexible arrangement with fair firepower when you need it. I'd be interested in any further details on your idea of allowing CEs or HWI to have extra charges/shots in GEV-PCs -- i think you said a GEV-PC had room for three charges (enough for another barrage)? If so, putting those in the GEV-PCs would give this company some staying power as well. Would you allow an LGEV-PC to carry 1 unit of cargo? <>< fish ><> (fnord.) ----- [I can think of one game publisher that would be annoyed if you gave away his property on the Web. Even if he's not interested in reprinting it himself at the moment. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: fish Subject: More Questions Re: Hovertruck rams > Personally, I feel if it's too light to stop an AP round, it's > too light to do any damage, but go ahead as the Mark V kills 20 of these > suckers before they can do any damage and so it takes 65 of these (which > somehow deploy inside of missile range). Actually I reread the rules, and each HT would do four points of tread damage. And if you take the normal (D1) hovertruck, the APs don't work, either -- meaning the MkV will kill a fair number, but those that survive will do pretty good damage. Anyway, even if you figure it takes 65 (or even a lot more) of them, they still get great damage for the money... Re: Revetments in overruns > 2> Stacked units in an overrun are still stacked, no? > 3> Ditto. Are they? I've always thought that stacked units in an overrun combat are treated similar to infantry squads, in that they split up for combat purposes (unless it's infantry riding inside another vehicle). See the last paragraph of p.33 -- "If the defender has other units w/in 1" of the overrun unit, he may treat them as stacked with the overrun unit and bring them into the fight." Am I wrong? Are stacked units still counted as being stacked for all purposes in overruns? Re: Digging in > 4> I'm working (slowly) on dig-in rules. For the moment, allow > infantry to dig themselves a D1 foxhole (No use to armor) after four > turns effort. (Eight turns for Mil). Sounds good. How long would a CE squad take, one turn? (Figure half the time for a D2 revetment?) And are the foxholes treated like the revetments, in that they also take damage from attacks, or do they just increase the defence of the infantry squad? <>< fish ><> (fnord.) If A=B and B=C, then A=C, except where void or prohibited by law. ----- [No, the Hovertrucks have an ATTACK strength of four, they inflict four tread units a third of the time. CE's are no faster than normal grunts at building foxholes. (It's part of fieldcraft lore). Normally they just build revrtments. And yes, foxholes are almost always blow away by attacks directed at the infantry within. (Part of my conception is that it's a really well scouted out spot for a quick semi-mobile defense). -HJC] ------------------------------ From: sj@io.com (Steve Jackson) Subject: Aide De Camp PBEM Ogre/GEV I'd like some information on Aide de Camp (and Walter Ohara sounds like a good source - Walter, are you part of AdC, and if not, in what capacity are you "adding Shockwave" to the program?). I would REALLY like to be able to talk personally to someone from this company/group/whatever it is. Someone sent me a "heads-up" about AdC not long ago. I hit their website and it was broken and garbled; I left them e-mail which was not answered; I called their number and got voicemail both times. I concluded that they were either out of business, or so close to it as to be unfindable and no significant infringement. I need to know what they are doing and exactly what their "product" is. They have no license from us, so if they are distributing anything for OGRE or GEV they are violating our trademark and copyright. If they are *selling* it, this is big evil. If it's freeware, they are discourteous for not talking to us, but if it's a good program and does not infringe rights we have *sold* elsewhere, we can probably forgive their unprofessionalism, and license it. (Copy of this to our General Counsel. Jim, the website is supposedly at http://www.cris.com/~Sturmer/ - this is the one that was trashed when I visited it before. We need to find these guys and do what we have to do, and I don't know whether we have a real problem here, or just another case of unwitting fan infringement.) Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the Secret Service case Learn Web or die - http://www.io.com/sjgames/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua! The heck with PGP keys; finger for Geek Code. Fnord. ------------------------------ From: fish Subject: The LGEV-PC, Take Two Heh. I just realized that the LGEV-PC I've been using for my Combine forces all this time is different from the one you posted a few months ago. I sort of like it, although I think the PanEuropean LGEV-PC (as posted by HCobb) has a future as well. So: PanEuropean Light GEV Personnel Carrier (LGEV-PC) [HCobb; Incarnation 1] Attack: 1 Range: 4" Defence: 1 Move: 6"/4" Move Mode: GEV, carries one squad 'on top' Size: 1 Point Cost: 3 Combine Light GEV Personnel Carrier (LGEV-PC) [fish; Incarnation 2] Attack: 0! Defence: 1 Move: 8"/6" Move Mode: GEV, carries one squad 'on top' Size: 1 Point Cost: 3 The original idea was that the PanEs reduced speed for lift, which makes sense -- I just figure that the Combines (placing a greater emphasis on speed for their all-hover units) simply takes off the light cannon in order to retain the original speed of 105 mph. I kind of like the idea of slightly differing unit types to distinguish the Combine, PanEurope, the Nihonese, and so on. There's a brief note (on pg. OM12) to the effect that each nation had unique types, but no real further mention of it (besides the differing Ogre variants). Note that this vehicle is pretty handy with an INF squad on top, acting as spotter for HW squads on GEV-PCs, if you're using the Forward Observer rules. <>< fish ><> (fnord.) ----- [How fast can the squad hold on? And somehow I think that four-six grunts weigh more than the pop-gun. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: fish Subject: Some other random questions 1) When a bridge is destroyed with a unit on top, the rule is that Ogres take falling damage while armor units are destroyed. All very well and good -- what about infantry? They don't take damage from falls, and they can survive in all types of terrain (except for very recent craters...), so it seems reasonable to let them live. 2) On page 4 of Ogre Minis, under Game Scale, the rules contradict themselves: "These rules assume that the holotank also exaggerates vertical scale by a factor of 100 ..." and later "This also preserves line of sight: since only horizontal scale is exaggerated ..." So, is it exaggerated or not? 3) On page 7, under Attack Strength, it suggests that units sometimes use "smart-nukes with a shaped-charge effect..." Is that possible? I was under the impression that the Monroe effect was sort of hard to manage with nuclear explosions. 4) On page 28, under Infantry Inside Structures, the rules state "The Attack Strength of the attack which destroys the structure is applied to the infantry as a separate target; the infantry is still considered protected by rubble, so its Defense Strength is tripled." I though rubble doubled infantry's Defence? 5) On page 36, under Laser Line of Sight, "The fire from a regular battlefield laser is blocked by forest swamp, town ..." On page 43, under Swamp, "While many swamps are wooded, in most cases these woods are not thick enough to block line of sight (the players may, of course, agree that a given area is a _wooded_ swamp)." So should the first reference be to wooded swamp, not normal swamp? 6) Can laser turrets on a hill fire as laser towers? 7) Do Point Defence Installations add defence to the _base_ value, or the _final_ value? Illustration: If a D1 command post is equipped with a PDI and is in a city, is its final defence value 3 (D1, x2 for town, +1 PDI) or 4 (D1 modified to D2 by PDI, x2 for town)? 8) How much is a truck worth in terms of VPs? Like, if I wanted to buy a truck to haul around my militia, would it cost 1/3VP? 1/4? Sick of these questions yet? <>< fish ><> (fnord.) ----- [1 Rules say ANY unit, except SuperHeavys or OGREs is destroyed. (This is the sort of thing infantry should get a saving throw on, plus one if they're elves) 2 Poor choice of words, I'd say line of sight is preserved. 3 You could build a fast-neutron shock wave, but I'm fairly sure that the blast effects would rapidly spread out. I think it depends on how much you think weapons effect depends on radiation. 4 General rule should carry here. I vote doubled. 5 Oddly enough, Woods do not block normal LOS. I'd say non-wooded swamps do not block LLOS. (We need some "soggy, but flat" terrain type). 6 Battlesuit handles height a lot better than OGRE Minis, IMNSHO. 7 This seems to be a modifer to the base defense value. 8 Maybe we need to split combat and economic VPs? Naw. -HJC] Henry J. Cobb hcobb@io.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 1996, by Steve Jackson Games.