============ OGRE/GEV list, October 29th (Last: October 27th) ============= ===== Aide De Camp PBEM Ogre/GEV From: sj@io.com (Steve Jackson) From: OHara Walter From: sdorr@ix.netcom.com (Scott David Orr) From: David desJardins From: sj@io.com (Steve Jackson) ===== National variations From: sj@io.com (Steve Jackson) ===== Asstd Q&A From: fish ------------------------------ From: sj@io.com (Steve Jackson) Subject: Aide De Camp PBEM Ogre/GEV Scott Orr wrote: >One thing, though: if you try calling Scott Hamilton, he's simply not going >to answer the phone except between 3pm and 5pm Pacific time; if you call >then and he's on the phone, he'll return your message, but he won't return >messages left at other times (them's are the rules). Well, isn't that *special*? I suppose that would explain why my messages were ignored. He can run his business any way he wants to, of course. But if he ignored me because I left my message at the wrong time of day, I'm going to find it difficult to work with him. Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the Secret Service case Learn Web or die - http://www.io.com/sjgames/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua! The heck with PGP keys; finger for Geek Code. Fnord. ----- From: OHara Walter Subject: Aide De Camp PBEM Ogre/GEV >Henry writes: > [I take it that you're using ADC purely as a record-keeping device, >as a alternative to tracking the game on paper? -HJC] In essence, that's what ADC does for *any* wargame. ADC puts the paper map and counters on the computer, keeps track of their movement and applies combat results. I have to legally own OGRE/GEV to play, because there's no way include the rules into this program. The only "AI" ADC has is a dumb dice roller. Walt ----- From: sdorr@ix.netcom.com (Scott David Orr) Subject: Aide De Camp PBEM Ogre/GEV >From: sj@io.com (Steve Jackson) >I'd like some information on Aide de Camp (and Walter Ohara sounds like >a good source - Walter, are you part of AdC, and if not, in what >capacity are you "adding Shockwave" to the program?). I would REALLY >like to be able to talk personally to someone from this >company/group/whatever it is. > >Someone sent me a "heads-up" about AdC not long ago. I hit their website >and it was broken and garbled; I left them e-mail which was not >answered; I called their number and got voicemail both times. I >concluded that they were either out of business, or so close to it as to >be unfindable and no significant infringement. > >I need to know what they are doing and exactly what their "product" is. >They have no license from us, so if they are distributing anything for >OGRE or GEV they are violating our trademark and copyright. If they are >*selling* it, this is big evil. If it's freeware, they are discourteous >for not talking to us, but if it's a good program and does not infringe >rights we have *sold* elsewhere, we can probably forgive their >unprofessionalism, and license it. > >(Copy of this to our General Counsel. Jim, the website is supposedly at >http://www.cris.com/~Sturmer/ - this is the one that was trashed when I >visited it before. We need to find these guys and do what we have to do, >and I don't know whether we have a real problem here, or just another >case of unwitting fan infringement.) First off, I'm not associated with HPS, so if you should decide to scream at someone, leave me out of it.... HPS Simulations is alive and well--in addition to ADC, they make a couple of very popular tactical wargames, Tigers on the Prowl and Panthers in the Shadows, and they publish a few other games by other developers. They have never, to my knowledge, engaged in any copyright infringement: Aide de Camp is a program designed to facilitate PBM and PBEM gaming. It lets you create a map and unit counters, as well as (I think) movement values, a CRT, etc.; it can also be used to make maps (and graphics) for Tigers on the Prowl and Panthers in the Shadows. If you buy ADC, all you get is the program; you put the games in yourself. However, HPS does sell "gamesets" for certain board games, but only under license from the game publisher. Other sets are made by gamers themselves, and naturally some of those are distributed, but AFAIK the idea is that both players must own the game in order to use the gamesets (I don't own ADC, so I don't know whether or not this is a specific provision in the ADC license, but it's what I've heard from gamers who do own it, and it's in their ad copy). And of course, the gamesets don't include rules, so it's pretty useless without them. I imagine the Ogre gameset mentioned above is one of the "public domain" sets --it's certainly not something produced or sold by HPS. The addresses I have for HPS are 74774.771@compuserve.com for Scott Hamilton, who owns the company, and sturmer@delphi.com for Greg Smith, who's a programmer and handles most of the email (and messages to the Compuserve address tend to answered by Sturmer). Both of them can be sort of erratic in their replies, since they don't have any people to handle sales or customer relations (at least not full-time). One thing, though: if you try calling Scott Hamilton, he's simply not going to answer the phone except between 3pm and 5pm Pacific time; if you call then and he's on the phone, he'll return your message, but he won't return messages left at other times (them's are the rules). His phone number is 408-554-8381, his fax is 408-241-6886. The address for the company is: HPS Simulations PO Box 3245 Santa Clara, CA 95055-3245 fish wrote: >>2) On page 4 of Ogre Minis, under Game Scale, the rules contradict >>themselves: "These rules assume that the holotank also exaggerates >>vertical scale by a factor of 100 ..." and later "This also preserves >>line of sight: since only horizontal scale is exaggerated ..." So, is it >>exaggerated or not? Henry J. Cobb wrote: > 2 Poor choice of words, I'd say line of sight is preserved. Except when it isn't, which is most glaring in the spillover rules, which inexplicably use the whole counter rather than just the center. > 7 This seems to be a modifer to the base defense value. "Marsh" would be the word. :) > 8 Maybe we need to split combat and economic VPs? Definitely, for trucks and hovertrucks. Scott Orr ----- From: David desJardins Subject: Aide de Camp PBEM Ogre/GEV Aide de Camp is published by HPS Simulations (and has been for years). As you said, they have a web page at http://www.cris.com/~sturmer/. I've never had any trouble with this page. I just checked it again and it looks fine to me, in both Netscape and Internet Explorer. ADC is a tool for representing board games on the computer and playing them by mail. By itself it isn't a copyright infringement any more than blank paper is. An ADC module containing map and counter information for OGRE and GEV could be an infringement, but I don't know of any such. If it did exist, it wouldn't be distributed by HPS; as far as I know HPS doesn't distribute any modules at all. They just sell the engine for users to make their own modules. Several board game companies do make and sell modules for their own games. David desJardins ----- From: sj@io.com (Steve Jackson) Subject: Aide De Camp PBEM Ogre/GEV Okay, thanks to everyone who wrote me to explain what this is. I'm now clear on the concept. I looked at the web page again and the part with the pointers to gamesets was still broken (Respects to everybody who told me the page was up . . . yes, it's up . . . but their maintainer left out some end-quotes in URLs and swallowed the whole paragraph with the pointers to free and commercial gamesets.) However, by looking at the source I could see what the URLs were supposed to be, and I looked at them. They are not selling or giving away anything for OGRE. Their listing of "free" gamesets includes one for our ONE-PAGE BULGE, and names a BBS that supposedly has it, but does not tell how to access it. !@#@#$%@$%. We will see if Bob Apthorpe can get us an answer from a human being over there. Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the Secret Service case Learn Web or die - http://www.io.com/sjgames/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua! The heck with PGP keys; finger for Geek Code. Fnord. ------------------------------ From: sj@io.com (Steve Jackson) Subject: National variations fish commented: >I kind of like the idea of slightly differing unit types to distinguish >the Combine, PanEurope, the Nihonese, and so on. There's a brief note >(on pg. OM12) to the effect that each nation had unique types, but no >real further mention of it (besides the differing Ogre variants). Realistic, but -- at least in the board and miniature games -- I would rather not ask people to keep track of different stats for each Heavy Tank, and so on... Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the Secret Service case Learn Web or die - http://www.io.com/sjgames/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua! The heck with PGP keys; finger for Geek Code. Fnord. ------------------------------ From: fish Subject: Asstd Q&A Re: Hovertruck rams >>> Personally, I feel if it's too light to stop an AP round, it's >>> too light to do any damage, but go ahead as the Mark V kills 20 of these >>> suckers before they can do any damage and so it takes 65 of these >>> (which somehow deploy inside of missile range). >> Actually I reread the rules, and each HT would do four points of >> tread damage. And if you take the normal (D1) hovertruck, the APs don't >> work, either -- meaning the MkV will kill a fair number, but those that >> survive will do pretty good damage. Anyway, even if you figure it takes >> 65 (or even a lot more) of them, they still get great damage for the >> money... > [No, the Hovertrucks have an ATTACK strength of four, they inflict >four tread units a third of the time. "Note that a ram attack against an Ogre may affect no target except treads -- but against treads, it always succeeds." OM pg. 35, left column. Re: The Combine LGEV-PC > Combine Light GEV Personnel Carrier (LGEV-PC) [fish; Incarnation 2] > Attack: 0! Defence: 1 > Move: 8"/6" Move Mode: GEV, carries one squad 'on top' > Size: 1 Point Cost: 3 > [How fast can the squad hold on? And somehow I think that four-six > grunts weigh more than the pop-gun. -HJC] Nothing has ever been noted about the grip strength of battlesuited infantry. Apparently they manage to hold on at 8"/6" on roads with GEV-PCs. Also, according to your original description it was tubes which the suits fit into, anyway, not grips as such. A battlesuit is pretty strong, even should they be forced to 'hold on'. And as for the weight issue, has anyone quantified just how much a battlesuit weighs? What about a 1/4" gun? I'd imagine a light railgun firing large enough nuclear shells to be useful, and enough ammo to have effectively unlimited (in game terms) supply, is pretty hefty. >> 6) Can laser turrets on a hill fire as laser towers? > Battlesuit handles height a lot better than OGRE Minis, IMNSHO. ARRRRRRRGHHHHH... Does anyone have a copy of Battlesuit (new/used/piece of crap) that they're willing to sell me? I'll pay good hard valuta -- none of this dengi stuff. >> 8) How much is a truck worth in terms of VPs? Like, if I wanted to buy >> a truck to haul around my militia, would it cost 1/3VP? 1/4? > Maybe we need to split combat and economic VPs? Actually, I think the system as it stands generally works pretty well. I just think that you shouldn't just assume that trucks are going to be used for some special purpose -- give them a normal point value for their combat usefulness (hah) and then make a note somewhere in the Units chapter that certain units might well be 'worth' more in terms of VPs for the enemy to kill, due to leaders present, special equipment, whatever. >> Sick of these questions yet? > Naw. Sarcasm? New business: Shouldn't GEV-PCs carrying infantry have increased defence values? The rationale for giving groups of INF D2/D3 is that their point-defence weaponry is more effective when they're concentrated. Well, don't they sort of need to use the point-defence to protect the GEV-PC if they're going to protect themselves as well? ECM and point-defence will help a GEV-PC just as much as an infantry platoon, IMHO. Plus, it might even justify the 6 VP (ouch) cost of a GEV-PC. New business: Anyone have any vehicle/Ogre/infantry designs lying around that aren't on the website? I'm collecting them, so if you've designed, say, a Scout Tank -- M8" A3/4" D3 6VP -- I'd like to see them. Planes and Hovercraft Ogres need not apply. Try and keep it less than totally silly. (I've already got Pyramids 1 and 5...) <>< fish ><> (fnord.) ------------------------------ Henry J. Cobb hcobb@io.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 1996, by Steve Jackson Games.