============ OGRE/GEV list, April 17th (Last: April 14th) ============= ===== Gunships & Gophers From: grendel@mail.cdsnet.net ===== The return of the Cruise Missle From: grendel@mail.cdsnet.net ===== Strategic Gameplay From: "Stephen Said" ===== Copter choppers From: garth.getgen@genie.com ===== Ogre Miniatures and Buildings for sale From: sj@io.com (Steve Jackson) ===== Hover Ogres From: Greg Trent ------------------------------ From: grendel@mail.cdsnet.net Subject: Gunships & Gophers Well, I feel just slightly vindicated to see somebody else think there is a place for helecopters in the OGRE universe. I really admire the work that Garth has put into his thinking on this. When I approached my friends with a couple of helecopter units for OGRE, I was laughed right out of the room. If anyone is interested, this is what I managed to come up with, but never really had a chance to playtest. Gunship: (cost 1 armor) Gopher: (VTOL Transport)(cost 1 armor) Move 5/4, Att 1/2, D1 Move 4/3 Att 1(in overruns only), D1 Carries 6 SPs of Inf Now, here is where my thinking is different. These units have an "infantry" type defense in that a "D" result is treated as an "X". They are unrestricted by terrain in movement (NOE flight), however, that would be their only flight option on the battlefield. They would receive the Road/Water bonus just as GEVs do. There was no ammo problem for the Gunship (hey why not, Missle Tanks don't have this problem). And finally, they are on the Cruise Missle chart as a GEV unit one hex CLOSER to the explosion. I based the "Gopher" unit off of the Chinook, & the Gunship off of the Cobra/Apache approach. I have always wanted to see helecopter units in OGRE, my father flew Cobra gunships in Vietnam, so the helecopter has a special place in my heart for wargames. I had tried to make my units reasonbly vulnerable to the effects of low level flight on the nuclear battlefield, hence the D=X approach. ----- [And the primary "problem" with gunships in Vietnam was spotting the enemy. Therefore they needed hunters as well as killers. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: grendel@mail.cdsnet.net Subject: The return of the Cruise Missle Observations: Cruise Missles are noticably weaker in the minis rules, EXCEPT, when dealing with OGREs, Buildings & Inf, where they are far more effective than before. GEVs used to live in fear a Cruise Missle (OK, ALL units live in fear of them, just more so for the GEVs), but now that is not the same. I guess they all "go-to-earth" just before detonation. Which leads to the question: What is the warhead size on the cruise missle? For some reason, 10 Megatons is the number that keeps popping up, but that may just be Nuclear War rearing its ugly head. ----- [SHUCKS! I was going to submit a Murphy's Rule: "Survivalists" In Ogre Miniatures, unprotected militia have the same radius of safety from large nuclear explosions as robot tanks. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: "Stephen Said" Subject: Strategic Gameplay Stephen Said@ORIGIN 15/04/97 09:40 Greeting's one and all. I have been in between jobs and without a PC, therefore out of the loop. The last article I read had a fairly lengthy discourse on SEAL type units and some remarks in relation to strategic play. Can we resurrect the strategic gameplay discussion? Regards, Stephen Said ----- [Why not browse the archives and respond to a point therein? -HJC] ------------------------------ From: garth.getgen@genie.com Subject: Copter choppers > The 747 uses a chemically pumped laser, but go > read the web page I pointed you to. What was that URL again?? I'll have to go look with my other account, as this one is text-only. > So we agree that airfoils near nuclear explosions are a very bad idea. > Now, the infantry need direct hits with their nuclear weapons to punch > through armor, but they only need to setoff a nuke NEARBY to drop a > copter from the sky. (Heck, it's worse than stingers!) -HJC] Oh, well wait a minute ... when you say "nukes", I think CRUISE MISSILES!! First you have to accept the idea of a hand-held weapon that can fire rounds that cause nuclear explosions -- and as I've said before, I just simply can not buy that part of the game background. No matter, for it's still a great game whether you want to accept that or not. However, this can EASILY be explained by the realitively LOW Defense rating I gave to helicopters. It all factors in: the aircraft's inherent maveuverability and adaptability verses its vernerability to large explosions. Without the second part, you could argue that with the first part plus what armor they can mount, helicopters should have at least a ONE better, perhaps TWO better, Defense rating. It's all been factored in. (And most modern air-to-air missiles don't need a contact-explosion to get a good "hit" ... a "near-miss" can usually do enough damage to bring the target aircraft down, or at least put it out of action.) At any rate, I'm working up a scenario called THE LAST CAVALRY CHARGE. I hope to post it here soon, with the historical background that explains the demise of the air-cav and close-air-support fixed-wing aircraft. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Going back thru some of the old posts, I found a few purposed "new" unit types -- all of them based on GEV technology: MSL-GEV: 3/4 D2 M3-2 HVY GEV: 3/2 D2 M3-2 "Cub" : 2/3 D2 M3-2 (need a new name for this one, I think) LGEV-PC: 1/2 D1 M3-2 carries ONE Infantry Squad I know there was a couple "GEV Howitzer" ideas out there, but I didn't run across them yet. I'm not sure I like that idea because of the Strike Range problem. Keep it to eight (8) hexes (16") and I'll be happy ... but you already have seven (7) hexes (14") with the MSL-GEV. But what I was looking for: in the back of my mind, I seem to recall an idea for a "Medimum Tank" -- was there such an idea purposed?? I would presume that it "should" be something like: 3/2 D2 M3, moves as HEAVY TANK. Is anyone keeping a list of purposed "new" units???? Garth L. Getgen ----- [It would be nice to have an unofficial units page. I'll clean away the SFB stuff to make room. Use Lynx to browse my page (URL at end), there's no graphics to mis anyway. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: sj@io.com (Steve Jackson) Subject: Ogre Miniatures and Buildings for sale Forwarding a letter from the Sentry Box, an excellent and reputable game store in Alberta, that has a lot of Ogre stuff left...For those who have been trying to add to their collection, here's a chance. > . . . here is a list of the Ogre miniatures and buildings that we >currently have in stock. We have multiples of most of them and I will >indicate the numbers that we only have singles left of. > >>From Ral-Partha: > >93004 Combine Heavy Tanks $4.75 >93007 Combine Howitzer $4.75 >93020 Fencer Ogre Cybertanks $12.00 >93027 Light Tank (Last One) $5.00 >93032 GEV-PC $5.00 >93034 Missle Crawler $5.00 > >>From Grenadier: > >6113 Paneuropean Howitzers $6.00 > >>From Detail Casting: > >151 Command Post $7.50 >152 Hardened Command Post $7.50 >153 Jamscreen Station $7.50 >154 Radar Station $7.50 >155 Laser Turret $7.50 >157 3/4" And 2" Craters $7.50 >159 Highway Bridge $9.75 > >All prices are in Canadian dollars which are at about a 35% premium ($10 >Canadian=about $7.41 U.S.). No taxes are charged for orders to the U.S. and >additional discounts of 10% for orders over $250.00 Canadian and 15% for >over 500.00 Canadian are also available. We do have to charge shipping to >the U.S. and we usually send surface via post because it is the cheapest and >not much slower than any other way since most of the time involved is for >the product to go through customs at the border rather than for transportation. > >So let us know if you want anything, and we will be happy to send it. >**************************************************************************** >The Sentry Box Gordon Johansen (Owner) > >One of the world's largest adventure gaming stores. >Science Fiction, Fantasy, Modern & Historical >Games, Books, Miniatures, & Collectables >Over 13,000 sq.ft. of retail and gaming space > >E-mail: sentrybx@nucleus.com >Web Page/On-line Catalogue: http://www.sentrybox.com > >1835-10th Ave. S.W. >Calgary, Alberta, Canada T3C-0K2 >Ph: (403)245-2121 Fax: (403)245-2272 Toll-free: 1-888-220-2121 >**************************************************************************** Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the Secret Service case Learn Web or die - http://www.sjgames.com/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua! The heck with PGP keys; finger for Geek Code. Fnord. ------------------------------ From: Greg Trent Subject: Hover Ogres Hmm. I'd have to say that the GEV version would work. ACV's can lift incredibly heavy masses, but there's this thing called inertia. It'd take the mother of all powers to stop and turn a 3 or 400 ton hovertank. So go with a higher speed, but lop off a large amount of maneuverability. Open up new tactics. ----- [The problem is that you've got a 100 point unit with D4. (Not D4 for some part, D4 for the whole thing. One nuke under the skirt and it blows away.) -HJC] Henry J. Cobb hcobb@io.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 1997, by Steve Jackson Games.