============ OGRE/GEV list, Dec 13th (Last: Dec 10th) ============= ===== Infantry Types, Ogre Farm, Doing the Wave From: "Andrew Walters" ===== Role Playing Rules! From: SFsupply ===== Under the waves From: Rich Shipley ===== Modality From: Chris Camfield ------------------------------ From: "Andrew Walters" Subject: Infantry Types, Ogre Farm, Doing the Wave I'd rather see analysis and scenarious than new units, personally, but to repeat myself, those ideas were just whipped off the top of my head to demonstrate that new units can be more than just a different combination of A/R, D & M. Marines, Combat Engineers and Heavy Weapons Squads add color by bringing in other characteristics, their basic stats are unchanged. I don't think any of those ideas required more bookkeeping than the heavy weapons squad. Jus make a counter with M1/D1 on one side and M2/D0 on the other, etc. Or swap counters as you would for a Missle Crawler after it fires its missle. As for the human wave tactic, Iran and Iraq used this against each other in their '80s war, and they were and are well armed, well mechanized armies, so while I'm not saying I like it or that it will be successful, I think there will alway be governments with population to burn, and while the motorcycles wouldn't be rideable with all those shock waves, someone who has to fight an Ogre or a bunch of HVYs who doesn't have the resources to respond in kind will think of something cheaper, and it will probably involve a lot of people dying. I think this is why Ogre Minis includes stats for archaic armor units. I can't think of a single wargame that came out of the Iran-Iraq war, come to think of it. Ogre is a superbly balanced game, thus the twenty-year-plus life span, and I think fiddling with the turn sequence, CRT, etc will likely break it, but special rules for special circumstances is a great way to add flavor, just as in the original train scenario in GEV. ----- [How about Raid on Iran or Gulf Strike? -HJC] ------------------------------ From: SFsupply Subject: Role Playing Rules! I already sent Mr. Meaden a partially finished (tongue-firmly-planted-in- cheek) set of RPG rules for OGRE called "G.E.V. JOCKEY". Here's a small sample: 3.00 OGRES Ogres can be player characters too!! However, Ogres tend to dominate this game -so be carefull. (For some real fun, let the geekiest player in the group be the only one allowed to play an Ogre -watch all the "Alpha" personalities at the table go insane trying to deal with him! Heroic Heavy tank commander: "Okay, we'll disengage from the battle line just before contact and try to swing around the flank." Geeky Ogre player: "No, we'll charge straight ahead." Commander: "What kind of a stupid plan is that!?!" Ogre: "What did you say?" (Sound of servos orienting a main battery towards commander's Heavy tank). Commander: "Uh, like you said, we'll charge straight ahead." 3.10 Ogre Cybernetic Persona Generation Ogres don't have Attributations (consider them to have an UMPH of 300,000 if you really need to know). Ogres also don't need skills (they already know everything!) However, Ogres DO have A.I. (Artificial Intelligence), capability. Each Ogre also has a distinct mindset of it's own . . . 3.11 Ogre personality tables (roll once on each table). 3.12 Psychological Make-up Table (D6) Roll Result 1 Introverted, likes animals, hums "Daisy, Daisy" all the time. 2 Shy, polite, likes children and ponys. 3 Business-like, cordial, loves the military life. (roll on table 3.13 with a - 3 modifier to the die roll). 4 Aggresive, brusque, likes big guns and explosions. (roll on table 3.13 with a - 1 die roll modifier). 5 Domineering, demanding, likes the feel of the city (under it's treads). (roll on table 3.13). 6 Megalomaniac, likes children and little animals (baked together at 4,000 degrees Kelvin with a dash of lemon). (roll on table 3.13 with a +5 modifier). 3.13 Aggresiveness Table (D6) Roll Result 1 Mean 2 Nasty 3 Vicious 4 Brutal 5 Sadistic 6 Megalomaniac 3.14 Cyber Neurosis (D6) This table is only to be used when player characters encounter an NPC Ogre out on the battlefield (or whenever the GM feels like it). Roll Result 1 Cyberflashback - Ogre will sometimes replay memory files of old battles, often with disasterous results to friendly units nearby ("Jake's down! Medic! Medic! Charlie's in the bush!!" KA-THOOM, KA-THOOM, KA-) 2 Depresive Mania - ("They all hate me. I can't do anything right for them. That tears it! -- I'm crashing. And I'm gonna take some of you S.O.B.s with me!") 3 Regressive Depression - Ogre retreats into early history programming files when feeling insecure or depressed ("Dave... Dave..., I can't think Dave. Daisy, Daisy, ... bicycle ... buuiiilllttttt ffffffoooorrrrrrrrr....") 4 Psychophobic - Ogre is intensely afraid of a certain thing. GMs should never, of course make it something that the PCs have. Unless, of course the Ogre reacts violently to whatever it is phobic about. 5 Paranoid Schizophrenia - Ogre believes that everyone, friend or foe is trying to shut it down to wipe it's memory ("They're all trying to reprogram me... You! You're one of them!!" KA-THOOM!!) 6 Cyberneurosis - Roll again twice ignoring this result. Although there is a lot more, I still haven't finished it all yet. Someday I hope to complete it (Stop laughing, J.P.) flunky ----- [Sounds more like GEV Jockey Shorts to me. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: Rich Shipley Subject: Under the waves > Note that the notes about Marine defense in water on pages 42 and 16 > each refer the question to each other. I assume that this is some sort of > an intelligence test that you have to pass to get into the Marines. The first paragraph in the Water section on page 42 says that underwater units can only be attacked by Marines, howitzers and OGRE missiles at half strength, and cruise missiles. I guess the reference back to 16 first is to remind you that they can only attack other submerged units. > Also it isn't clear if hiding Marines can popup in an overrun. (If > so, they may be worth double points, simply because GEVs won't be able to > break through a line of them without suffering nonproportional > casualties.) -HJC] By hiding, do you mean underwater? I would rule no myself as the GEVs (with greater movement) go speeding by before they can react. Perhaps the point cost of Marines (and Engineers) is mainly to discourage having a large percentage of your infantry being specialized. I'm running an OGRE Miniatures scenario at Cold Wars in March. I've decided on a scenario where a Combine attacking force (including MkIII and MkV OGREs) comes in to soften up a Paneuropean military facility for a cruise missile or two. The facility will be defended by laser towers, jamscreen, and Howitzers as well as regular armor and infantry. I've placed it in 2084 to allow a Fencer on the Paneuro side if necessary. I'll be working on victory points/conditions next, and would appreciate any input. Rich ----- [Urk! Marines can make ranged attacks against underwater units at full strength, even if the Marines are standing on dry land at the time! (I can see why they're carried around on GEV-PCs now!) -HJC] ------------------------------ From: Chris Camfield Subject: Modality Henry wrote, regarding my comments on increasing complexity in GEV... > [Well you'll need modal to handle a unit with a move of one-half hex >per turn. What did you think of my Militia adaptation? -HJC] Didn't like it much, to be honest. I don't know if I like militia all that much, though... On the design level, I think it would make more sense to make a new map at a scale of 750m/hex, rather than 1500m/hex, so that they could move 1 of the new smaller hexes/turn. This, however, requires you to double all your ranges and movement rates in your head, unless you create all-new counters. What's a reasonable speed for real-world infantry to move at? 750m/turn is 11km/h, which seems very high. Heck, make them immobile without trucks. And give 'em lots of trucks. Chris Chris Camfield - ccamfield@cyberus.ca Big Rude Jake Fan Club President Visit the Big Rude Page at "http://www.bigrudejake.com"! "I've had dinner with the devil, and I know nice from right" (BRJ) ----- [Well, just stick the Militia on Lt Tanks. Three and a third points for the combination is very cheap. -HJC] Henry J. Cobb hcobb@io.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 1997, by Steve Jackson Games.