============ OGRE/GEV list, Dec 20th (Last: Dec 17th) ============= ===== OGRE on the Web From: Mister McKnight From: "Todd A. Zircher" From: Thomas.Granvold@Eng.Sun.COM (Tom Granvold) ===== It sure works. From: Steve Jackson ------------------------------ From: Mister McKnight Subject: OGRE on the Web >any ideas? >From one lurker to another, I would have to say that the two PBEMers is best. I've played a 5-way PBEM game of Emperor of the Fading Suns and the game moved so slow, about one complete turn a week between 5 people and playing for 6 months, it just didn't get very far at all. The game is just too big and the resources are too small. The main problem I see with threatening a PBEMer that there turn will be skipped is that they'll quit! They'll quit with the excuse of "Gee, I've missed the last 6 turns. I guess there's no point in going on with it." And that takes a lot of the fun out of it. I think what would be better is that if the PBEMer can't make it, then the user's turn should just go into AI mode (a good AI) without anyone having to worry about if they are playing a human or the computer, just keep the turn sequences rolling. And the player can come back in if they want to later. Frankly, I like the one-player PC games better, or if it's networked and you can just plug-in without having to wait for everyone to get together to play. It's a bigger hassle organizing a game as an adult than it was as a kid. Lately, I've been playing Fallout ;) and having a blast. Too bad it didn't have some Ogres to explore or do battle with. Perhaps Fallout 2... How about someone making a GURPS Ogre-universe rpg game? Use that hack program to start with... ----- From: "Todd A. Zircher" Subject: OGRE on the Web > [The human side is easier to automate. Only one target. > > The computer game OGRE was pretty lame. -HJC] If you mean the amateur Unix version, I whole heartedly agree. The Origins version was commercial grade for it's time, but is now pretty weak. (Last summer, I played/reviewed the Apple emulator version. Sorry guys, I've long since deleted it.) Next year, I plan to devote some time to making a server that will allow players to play OGRE via e-mail using V_MAP or plain text. (The only real difference is coordinate systems and the fact that V_MAP will give a graphical interface to it.) Maybe I'll be able to sweet talk SJG into setting it up on io.com so that the whole world can join hands and nuke things. :-) It will interesting to see how nightmarish of a project that will be. Theoretically, once that is complete and all the AI is finally tweaked, moving to a turn based or real-time strategy game will be a natural follow-up. Don't hold your breath though my hobby programming time is usually measured in a few hours each week. Todd "OGRE revivalist" Zircher [mad scientist mode] I wonder if I could build a Quake mod that would allow you to assume the role of an OGRE? Watching the infantry bounce about would be a hoot. I'm have to bounce this off of the OGRE and Quake message boards tonight... ----- [How about "plug-in" strategy modules? For the human side, fuzzy-wozzie would be a good start. -HJC] ----- From: Thomas.Granvold@Eng.Sun.COM (Tom Granvold) Subject: OGRE on the Web > From: "Todd A. Zircher" > Henry, it looks like another multiplayer OGRE/GEV PBEM game > bought it. > > As the lurker in the group, I wouldn't call it a waste because > there is something to learn here. When it comes to PBEM OGRE/GEV, > two is company and anything more is a bust. Chalk it up to > logistics and latency if you wish. The game Full Thrust (spaceship combat with miniatures) regularly has PBEM games occuring with up to 16 players. So it can be done. > I still believe it can work with more that two players via PBEM > Here are a few ideas to toss about for the list. > > - To get a group to work via e-mail in a timely manner may require > extreme incentives/motivation. Something like, "If you fail to > turn in your commands by midnight, the game continues anyway and > your units just sit. If there are any enemy combatants nearby, > they will fire to protect themselves. Don't you hate it when > your HQ gets jammed?" > > - OGRE/GEV would be relatively easy to port to an e-mail server. > If you fail to turn in your commands, the relatively stupid > AI gets to play your units as it sees fit. In Full Thrust games we normally have each side pick an "Admiral" who issues default orders in case any player on that side doesn't get their's in on time. > - Some kind of management software to keep the referee from being > swamped with details. Ideally, one that could read in formatted > text, check it for accuracy, and spit out consolidated reports > to the player. Again for Full Thrust this is often done with a spreadsheet, though it won't be as easy for Ogre. > > Any other ideas? > Three other things that are common in Full Thrust PBEM games is a web site where maps are posted as each turn is completed. This is a great help in that one does not need to keep the game set up on a table (and for some of these games a VERY BIG table would be needed) in order to play. Second mailing aliases are set up for each side so that it is easy to discuss plans, tactics, etc. Last, there is a list of alternates kept so that if someone drops out for whatever reason another can step in to keep the game going. Enjoy, Tom Granvold ------------------------------ From: Steve Jackson Subject: It sure works. WRT that essay - you didn't say where it WAS, Todd... Quoth Kirk: >I for one think that NOTHING is broken in the rules, it just all needs >to be compiled and rereleased. What do you say, Steve? Of coure, it's all perfect and pristine :-) I dunno if it's perfect, but it sure works. Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the Secret Service case Learn Web or die - http://www.sjgames.com/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua! The heck with PGP keys; finger for Geek Code. Fnord. ----- [Yes, but does it sell? I haven't seen the combined board game in a while, much less Battlesuit. (Image of an OGRE getting chased off the map by collectable card games.) What I'd really like to see for X-mas (say 2060 or so) is a master combined game with board and minis rules for OGRE/GEV/Battlesuit. I don't know how you'd package it though. A thick book with a thin map and counters doesn't package well. (Perhaps the maps and counters are on some sort of an insert?) Every unit would have stats listed for board game and minis play for both the GEV and Battlesuit scales. (The gamers might scream at shelling $30 for the evolution of a $4 game, but a fairly high-value, compact package might just find its way into a lot of shops.) -HJC] Henry J. Cobb hcobb@io.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 1997, by Steve Jackson Games.