============ OGRE/GEV list, February 25th (Last: February 23rd) ============= ===== OGRE Minis at Warfair and Gencon From: SFsupply@aol.com ===== Non-Partha Minis From: Jeffery.M.Miller@Dartmouth.EDU (Jeffery M. Miller) From: garth.getgen@genie.com ===== MIA Ogres From: sj@io.com (Steve Jackson) ===== Ogres on AOL From: KPerk22954@aol.com ===== assorted From: tharrington@manifest1.com (Todd Harrington) ===== Unit Values in OGRE and GEV From: sj@io.com (Steve Jackson) ===== OGRE/GEV Unit Values - Part 2 From: "David Paulowich" ------------------------------ From: SFsupply@aol.com Subject: OGRE Minis at Warfair and Gencon >>And speaking of non-Partha minis (sort of), can you imagine the >>floor/table space needed for a 1/35 scale OGRE game???!!!! This I would >>have to see. >>Walt Actually, the required space is about 20 feet wide by 40 feet long. And if you can make it to Warfair '97 (March) or GENCON '97 (August) you CAN see it! Just hunt down "Sci-Fi Supply" when you get there. flunky ("Tactics, shmactics. Nuke 'em all!") Uncle Shmalbert, 2042 ------------------------------ From: Jeffery.M.Miller@Dartmouth.EDU (Jeffery M. Miller) Subject: Non-Partha Minis BTW, why'd Partha stop? was OGRE not moving as fast as the Battletech MPS (Miniatures Prostitution System)? They DID do a pretty good job.... ----- From: garth.getgen@genie.com Subject: Non-Partha Minis > OHara Walter > > > And speaking of non-Partha minis (sort of), can you imagine the > floor/table space needed for a 1/35 scale OGRE game???!!!! > This I would have to see. Between that and the price, I personally don't think they will sell all that well. I could be wrong; but there's no way >>I<< can afford to get something like that ... and I have a fair amount of entertainment money in my budget compared to most gamers. I "might" get one (1) of the GEVs as a display model, tho. Garth L. Getgen SSgt USAF ------------------------------ From: sj@io.com (Steve Jackson) Subject: MIA Ogres Here's a question for you, and for the list: I am looking for Ogre miniatures from the first three production runs - Martian Metals, SJ Games, and the Grenadier run which used SJ Games packaging. Specifically, I am looking for the PACKAGING. Two reasons: (1) I don't seem to have even one Martial Metals or SJ Games Ogre blister card in the archives! (2) The SJ Games blister cards credited the SCULPTORS of the vehicles, which I think is important. But, in trying to put together a complete history of the line, I cannot find any record of the sculptors of several units: the original Command Post, the Combine GEV, the HWZ and Mobile HWZ, and the Light Tank. So if anyone has any of the old units still in package, or if anyone saved the blister card, please let me know who the sculptor was! And if anyone has a Martian Metals or SJ Games Ogre blister card (I don't want to steal your vehicles, just the card), I'd sure like to have it. Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the Secret Service case Learn Web or die - http://www.io.com/sjgames/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua! The heck with PGP keys; finger for Geek Code. Fnord. ----- [My blister cards are: one Fencer. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: KPerk22954@aol.com Subject: OGREs on AOL The OGRE/GEV message board on AOL is a forum for AOL members to discuss everyones favorite wargame, OGRE. I have seen tactics and strategy discussions, people selling minis, and copies of the games, and general info and rumors. To find, go to keyword: Strategy, and click onto strategy messaging. Scroll down until you find the appropriate section and click on. ------------------------------ From: tharrington@manifest1.com (Todd Harrington) Subject: assorted Greetings, Its good to hear talk of campaign and/or strategic rules.Before I bought the mini rules I was working out some basics for an operational/ strategic game.Basically scale, unit strengths,types,and rough outlines for movement and fire rules.Ill post what I have in the near future.(its all dispersed over four notebooks and acouple of disks.) H.Cobb:why are all archives pre '97 encrypted? is there a key to use? oh yeah one more thing,being a cetral New Yorker,I go to Rochester quite a bit.There is a REALLY big game store called Crazy Egors that has a ton of Microgames, mint,selling just over what they origioally went for.(5-10 bucks).I picked up two mint GEV games for $6 apiece. He also had a mint copy of OGRE for $25(a bit too steep for me since i already have it.),and a version of GEV that came in alittle box with punch out counters(as opposed to the cut-out kind).There seemed to be less units.I didnt pick it up. anyhow,if you are interested stop in,call or mail in requests. you can get on an active search that may take some time(They did find a mint copy of 3W's Tommorow The World,a great grand-strategic, alternate-universe wargame about WWIII between the world powers of Germany and Japan),or mailorder world wide. Crazy Egor's mail order world-wide:1699 Hamlin-Parma T.L. Rd.,Hilton, N.Y.14468 store:3047 W. Henrietta Rd., Rochester N.Y. 14623 ph:716-427-2190 fax:716-427-8182 24-hour order line 1-800-724-8628. ----- [The archives are not encrypted, they are OBSCURED! The jolly admins down at IO have convinced me to fix it up myself, so go browse down to my web (URL below) and grab the archives now along with the (even less secure than an Active X control) LHA.exe program. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: sj@io.com (Steve Jackson) Subject: Unit Values in OGRE and GEV >From: "David Paulowich" > > To start off, my name is David Paulowich and I am a Canadian >mathematician (25 years in the American Mathematical Society) with an >interest in game design. In December I came up with a final design >formula for cybertanks in OGRE and amused myself by creating a couple >of new models (which were posted to hcobb@io.com). Cost in victory >points equals the sum of three values: TREADS (one vp each) and WEAPONS >(usual cost) and BODY COST - according to a new formula. > > My computer skills should be just about good enough to send this Email >to Steve Jackson, with a copy to Richard Meaden. You might want to >hear more of my cybertank ideas. You definitely need to hear my >opinions on armor unit values. Shockwave (SJGames 1984) introduced >several new units. These units need to be assigned proper victory >point values, once and for all, before you market another edition of >the rules. For example, the SUPERHVY looks like a 9vp unit at first >glance. Much as I dislike proving the obvious, there appear to be a >lot of gamers out there who do not agree with me. Let's consider some >examples. > > Scenario One: 6 HVY TANK to move and fire against 6 SUPERHVY, at a >distance of 5 hexes. Chance plays a powerful role here, but if the 6 >HVY TANK start off by rolling 2X's and 2D's, we should see 2 HVY TANK >survive the encounter. > > Scenario Two: 9 HVY TANK to move and fire against 6 SUPERHVY, at a >distance of 6 hexes. Move 3 HVY TANK up to within 5 hexes of the >opponent, while the remaining 6 HVY TANK pull back to a distance of 7 >hexes. If the 6 SUPERHVY advance and destroy the 3 HVY TANK, the >remaining 6 HVY TANK are now in a position to start Scenario One and >win the encounter. If the 6 SUPERHVY stay in place, then the 9 HVY >TANK can choose to launch an attack, with 3 units able to fire this >turn. The return fire from the SUPERHVY will be fierce, but I still >believe that 1 or 2 HVY TANK will survive. No course of action results >in even a 50 percent chance of victory for the SUPERHVY force. Oddly >enough, this 9vp SUPERHVY can look pretty impressive when compared to a >Mark III OGRE - see next paragraph. > > Once a Mark III OGRE has fired its two missiles, it has only >one >MB to engage a target 3 hexes away. SUPERHVY can attack a MSL TANK at >3to1 odds - which guarantees at least a DISABLE result. It can follow >this attack with an overrun against the disabled MSL TANK - with no >risk >at all from a 1.5 point attack (which could destroy a SB on the OGRE). >SUPERHVY throws its weight around like a miniature OGRE, but does not >have to worry about attrition from weak attacks (less than 2 points). >Adding a pair of AP guns to the SUPERHVY will make it even more like a >cybertank, but does not make me want to own one. > > >David Paulowich >paulo@isn.net > I responded: Thanks for the note. Of course, a straight slugfest analysis does not credit the Superheavy with its improved movement mode; it handles terrain like an Ogre. Did you assume that each SHVY gun fires separately? Did you run a 6 vs. 6 analysis in which the SHVY group fires first? I would assume that in that case the SHVY group expects to lose one unit at worst, while destroying all the HVYs. I'm trying to remember what happened to the optional rules that let a SHVY lose only one gun on some X results. Richard, can you place this? ------------------------------ From: "David Paulowich" Subject: OGRE/GEV Unit Values - Part 2 Received your reply of Feb. 23, 1997. Let's match 12 SUPERHVY against 18 HVY TANK. To make things interesting, try dividing these forces and arranging them in two unequal battles. Scenario 1: 6 SUPERHVY advance to within six hexes of 6 HVY TANK. The 6 HVY TANK all retreat one hex. The 6 SUPERHVY can advance at a steady pace of one-third of their maximum speed, or they can rush forward and allow the opponent to fire first. If they choose to rush, things can get very complicated: (A) the 6 HVY TANK roll 1X and 4D's ... should win with 4 HVY TANK surviving, (B) they roll 2X's and 2D's ... should win with 2 HVY TANK surviving, (C) they roll 3X's and zero D's ... now the 3 remaining SUPERHVY have the advantage. Again, we need to consider several possibilities: (C1) the 3 SUPERHVY roll 1X and 4D's .... and WIN BIGTIME, (C2) they roll 2X's and 2D's ... should win with 1 SUPERHVY surviving, (C3) they roll 3X's and zero D's ... now the 3 remaining HVY TANK get to fire on the 3 SUPERHVY. We are back where we started, only the forces have been halved. Rushing forward looks suicidal, but the analysis is tricky. It is usually better to roll a pair of D's than to roll a single X, naturally the SUPERHVY will choose multiple 1 to 1 attacks. Scenario 2: 12 HVY TANK are advancing against 6 SUPERHVY, which take up position six hexes away. As in my previous letter, the HVY TANK force can now split up, with 4 units advancing to within five hexes of the opponent and 8 units retreating to a line two hexes behind the leading units (thus seven hexes away from the opponent). If the 6 SUPERHVY foolishly advance and destroy the lead 4 units, then the remaining 8 HVY TANK will counterattack ... with more force than was used in Scenario 1. Definitely a case of SUPERHVY SUICIDE! Alternately, the 6 SUPERHVY can choose to retreat one hex. Now the 12 HVY TANK can advance in formation at a steady pace of one-third of their maximum speed. There may be some opportunities to speed up the pace, always following the RULE: place 4 units at risk, as long as the other 8 are close enough to avenge them. In conclusion, the superheavy tank looks like a 1.5 armor unit value, and one that I am not inclined to purchase. The OGRE/GEV game system continues to interest me, and I have some ideas for replacing the superheavy tank with a more successful *BIG*BAD*TANK* unit. David Paulowich paulo@isn.net Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the Secret Service case Learn Web or die - http://www.io.com/sjgames/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua! The heck with PGP keys; finger for Geek Code. Fnord. ----- [Put those 1/3rd of a point Rambos on light tanks, and let's rumble! -HJC] Henry J. Cobb hcobb@io.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 1997, by Steve Jackson Games.