============ OGRE/GEV list, July 30th (Last: July 28th) ============= ===== Superheavy Damage From: andrew.flowers@gs.com (Andrew Flowers (INTERN)) ===== Missile Crawler miniature From: Steve Jackson ===== Air units in the factory states? From: andrew.flowers@gs.com (Andrew Flowers (INTERN)) ===== Interest in mass PBeM? From: andrew.flowers@gs.com (Andrew Flowers (INTERN)) ===== OGRE products From: "Todd A. Zircher" ------------------------------ From: andrew.flowers@gs.com (Andrew Flowers (INTERN)) Subject: Superheavy Damage Steve mentioned: > I know that a few years ago, a proposed rules change was generated to make > the Superheavy more powerful (and maybe more interesting), so it was truly > worth 2 armor units - at least in appropriate situations. > Darned if I can find it. Anybody remember seeing it? I saw something Steve posted back in '93 (to the GEV List Thingy) with a very similar solution to: > Option 2: Partial Damage. Advantage: Neat ramifications. Disadvantage: you > now need a record sheet for every SHVY. > > XX still blows it to bits. But on any X result against a SHVY, roll one die: > 1, 2 - A single gun is lost. > 3, 4 - Mobility kill; SHVY can no longer move. Guns unaffected. > 5, 6 - Destroyed, per normal X result. I don't remember the exact month, but it'll be somewhere in the archives on Henry's website. It said: (quoting from Steve's original post) > An X result does not have a normal "kill" result against a Superheavy. The > first X scored against a Superheavy merely disables it. If and when it > recovers from that disabling, one of its guns is permanently lost. The unit > now has an attack strength of 3; its stats are otherwise the same. > If a damaged Superheavy receives another X result, it is destroyed. > Damaging a Superheavy is worth 4 points; at the end of a scenario, a damaged > Superheavy is worth 8 points to the owner. > Whatever we decide for the Superheavy will also hold true for the Chinese > "Ultraheavy" to be introduced in KILLING ZONE. I've played through both variants (the original and the one Steve just posted) a couple of times now, and they both work fairly well (at least for me). I've found that the simpler version (just a single-gun kill on an X) works better if the movement is also reduced to 2/4", though -- I've always found it highly annoying that the SHVY has an opportunity of 12" when nothing else short of a GEV does. If I had to choose, I think I'd pick the option Steve just posted. Although it adds more complexity, I like the possibility of completely vaporizing a tank (on an XX), or disabling its movement, or whatever. (It's similar to the Variable Disabled Vehicle Results table in Chapter 8 of Ogre Minis, which I use with pretty fair regularity in my FTF games.) One more comment on the SHVY, which I've found may be unbalancing when compared vs. small Ogres: > Treads 6" 0 0 0 0 5" 0 0 0 0 4" 0 0 0 0 > 3" 0 0 0 0 2" 0 0 0 0 1" 0 0 0 0 > Tread units are marked off only if the SHVY rams a building or Size > 5+ unit, or if it is rammed by a Size 5+ unit. A mobility kill simply > immobilizes the SHVY. I _hate_ the fact that SHVYs have more tread units (notional or not) than does an Ogre Mk. I, and almost as many as a Mk. II. IMNSHO, SHVY treads should be _halved_ to 12, and they should do only 1 die damage to structures (as do Mk. Is), as opposed to 2 dice, as Mk IIs. Also, whether or not you halve their treads, SHVYs (_especially_ if you use a new system where you've got to keep trach of SHVYs anyway) should take tread damage from falling, assuming they're not destroyed. I've been doing this for a long time now, and it works well enough, if you're willing to keep record sheets (which don't really add that much complexity to the game). Sorry to ramble. -- Fish Flowers, Ogre website peon Andrew (fish) Flowers Personal: awflower@midway.uchicago.edu, fishy@zurich.uchicago.edu GS&Co (work): andrew.flowers@gs.com (internal: andrew.flowers@gvtps1.fi.gs.com) Other: fish@pyramid.sjgames.com, eidolon@io.com ----- [A Pair of missile tanks have the same strike radius and attack strength, a better retreat radius and better defense than a superheavy. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: Steve Jackson Subject: Missile Crawler miniature Our local Hobbytown has one (1) hanging on the wall... Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the Secret Service case Learn Web or die - http://www.sjgames.com/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua! The heck with PGP keys; finger for Geek Code. Fnord. ------------------------------ From: andrew.flowers@gs.com (Andrew Flowers (INTERN)) Subject: Air units in the factory states? Hmm... I'm personally of the opinion that air units (be they VTOL or fixed-wing or what-have-you) really have no place on the standard Ogre/GEV battlefields, although as Henry mentions they're fine for transporting things (like MkIs, f'rinstance) around behind the lines. But what about in the Factory States era? I'm under the impression (and I could be wrong) that nuclear weapons aren't in wide use in the Factory States. Certainly high-tech equipment like fire-and-forget missiles and laser towers aren't going to be in wide use; since those three (nukes, lasers, seekers) seem to be the bane of the aircraft, maybe in their absence a VTOL could thrive? I'm not saying it's likely, I'm just saying it's a little less improbable. Any thoughts? Anyone feel like writing rules for warfare in the FS era, so I can post it on the website? Or maybe I'll go ahead and do it. (I suck at writing rules, though, so I'd rather someone else gave it a shot.) -- Fish, peon ordinaire. Andrew (fish) Flowers Personal: awflower@midway.uchicago.edu, fishy@zurich.uchicago.edu GS&Co (work): andrew.flowers@gs.com (internal: andrew.flowers@gvtps1.fi.gs.com) Other: fish@pyramid.sjgames.com, eidolon@io.com ----- [No nukes: only weapons are threads and AP, hence OGREs rule... -HJC] ------------------------------ From: andrew.flowers@gs.com (Andrew Flowers (INTERN)) Subject: Interest in mass PBeM? Hi guys. In my (extended) perusals of Henry's old GEV list archives, in the waaaay earliest ones, I found references to his old PBeM games. These weren't the piddly two-player Raid and Breakthrough scenarios that we've seen so many times, these were total mindfucks (if you'll pardon my french), from what I could see -- multiple players, confused objectives, unclear enemy forces... Sound like fun? I'd be interested in seeing another one of these happen, and though I can't say much for my own skill at playing, I'm more than willing to _run_ one of these monsters, if I can get more than two or three players. I was thinking something along the lines of the Free For All scenario on the web (at www.sjgames.com/ogre/scenarios/freeforall.html) to start, to work out the basics -- if that worked well we could get more complex from there. Is anyone interested? I'd guess that Mike Pelletier is willing , but is there anyone else looking for a game? If so please do reply (to either the list or my personal address at awflower@midway.uchicago.edu), and we'll see what we can put together. Thanks. -- Fish Flowers, peon ordinaire. Andrew (fish) Flowers Personal: awflower@midway.uchicago.edu, fishy@zurich.uchicago.edu GS&Co (work): andrew.flowers@gs.com (internal: andrew.flowers@gvtps1.fi.gs.com) Other: fish@pyramid.sjgames.com, eidolon@io.com ------------------------------ From: "Todd A. Zircher" Subject: OGRE products > Andrew Flowers wrote: > Do you know if anything ever came of either the online version of > Ogre, > or the fanzine that Richard was pushing? I'd assume they just fell > into the > infamous "Ogre-Pit-of-Promised-But-Never-Delivered-Products", but if > anything exists, do you know where I might find it? Hello from the Pit, While not a true Ogre/GEV computer program, V_MAP (a graphical PBEM gaming aid) with OGRE/GEV counters and maps should 'ship' by the end of August. By that time, I'll have the paperwork done, the documentation polished, the web page written, and the release version compiled. (V_MAP is a freeware program for Windows 3.x, Win95 and possibly WinNT.) Also, if you have an io.com account, there's the old text version of Ogre that I ported. It's a bit cheesy, but it can be a fun exercise in how to beat a non-AI Ogre. (No plans for any future update.) And, I'm tempted to buy Civilization II and build a MOD file for GEV/ Shockwave this fall. Civ II and MOD files are very configurable. The technologies and units can edited via text files and the images for the units and terrain can be easily modified or created from scratch. Unfortunately, the combat model for Civ II does not lend itself well to multi-weapon units like Ogres or SuperHeavies. (Civ II can be found for as little at $35 on the web* and the proposed MOD file would be donated to SJG if they're willing to post it [Don't hold your breath on this one. All I've done for this so far is some research on the web and determined that it is 'do-able'.]) Todd "Gee, does that make me the only 'active' Ogre programmer out there?" Zircher * GamesEtc, I beleive - URL unknown ------------------------------ Henry J. Cobb hcobb@io.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 1997, by Steve Jackson Games.