============ OGRE/GEV list, March 22nd (Last: March 18th) ============= ===== HexMap From: sdorr@ix.netcom.com (Scott David Orr) From: garth.getgen@genie.com ===== Unit GNL of the Line Part 1 From: "Mike Wikan" ===== Math on the battleline From: garth.getgen@genie.com ===== Errata on line From: garth.getgen@genie.com ===== Alternate Rules for Infantry From: garth.getgen@genie.com ===== APC debate From: garth.getgen@genie.com ===== Speed factors From: garth.getgen@genie.com ===== Miniatures list and hidden movement From: "Devir Livraria Ltda." ===== More GEV alternate rules From: garth.getgen@genie.com ------------------------------ From: sdorr@ix.netcom.com (Scott David Orr) Subject: HexMap >From: garth.getgen@genie.com >Scott, > >Thanks for that info!! Please, where on the 'Web can I find this, what's >the cost, and is the download version crippled in any way?? Garth, The ftp address I have is ftp://earthsea.stanford.edu/pub/hexmap/hexmap45.zip. This is shareware, and originally required registration for full performance, but the author has stopped supporting it and therefore includes the password with all copies now. Scott Orr ----- From: garth.getgen@genie.com Subject: HexMap Scott told me about HexMap 4.5 and said to get it off the Standford FTP site, and that the latest uploads have the password included (because the author isn't supporting it anymore) -- however, Standford has closed their site and the new site doesn't have the files yet. I did find the program on another 'Web site but it's the release that needs the password; if Scott can provide that, I'll be happy. The down side is the program does have a few limitations that makes it hard (but not impossible) to work with. One thing I noticed is you can't do crossroads on it, nor creek hexsides. Garth L. Getgen ------------------------------ From: "Mike Wikan" Subject: Unit GNL of the Line Part 1 UNIT GNL OF THE LINE >>>Activescan<<<<< Locate: Possible Hostiles:Classification-Paneuropean Assault Brigade Initiate: TacOP 956 Directive: Omega Unit GNL ("Grendel" to his Techs) of the Combine 70th Heavy Armor Division studied the approaching Paneuropean forces with Multiwave Oscillation pulses designed to negate any Jamming or Cloaking the ENEMY might attempt. Confidence was high on the ENEMY force composition, including the surprising presence of a OGRE MkIII in the enemy vanguard. After flipping a burst transmission (.00005ms) to his Sergeant (a Mk III OGRE approximately 6 Km to the Southeast) Unit GNL shunted power to his primary and secondary batteries-preheating the Mag coils and priming the Nuclear detonation cores on the ammunition. >From a nearby ridge line Corporal Randall of the Combine Heavy Infantry watched the Ogre to his west with trepidation. When a megaton of Fusion Powered Biphase Carbide starts frenziedly checking it's weapons and rolling back and forth doing high speed treadwear analysis it usually meant trouble.. It soon came in the Spycam feeds from the north. A large Peep force had emerged from no-man's land near Benkazi ridge. Randall started yelling orders as the OGRE MKII suddenly bolted south at 100KPH. It was going to be a long day..... >>>BattleComp<<< Move: Withdraw to local depression to immediate South Analyse: Complete threat analysis of approaching Paneuropean force After careful consultation with his command unit, Grendel withdrew two kilometers to the Kirya flat, a featureless salt basin where he would have clear avenues of fire at the approaching Paneuropean force. The ENEMY appeared to have a greater weight of Heavy Armor than expected. Grendel counted eight Napoleon Heavy Tank units being supported by one Rommel class Superheavy Tank and tertiary hovercraft combatants. The ENEMY MK III was attempting broad spectrum jamming of the combine target acquisition systems, but with Grendel as well as his commanding MK III having SHADO 9000 omniwave gear that would not occur. Grendel calculated a 98.777754% chance that hostilities would commence within 9.65 seconds. Plenty of time to complete his diagnostics and ENEMY threat analysis. Corporal Randall's fire team moved from the shelter of a nearby ridge in a series of long 80 meter powered jumps. At the apex of each jump, Randall scoped out the Peep force with his Helmet Cam set at 200x. Through the dust and Haze he sorted out the hulking shape of a Peep OGRE mixed with a variety of Heavy combatants. As he completed a leap, a threat assessment was downloaded from the MK II a few kilometers to the north. As usual, GNL was right on the dot. "Wish I had HIS poker face.." he muttered. Through the rising dust and haze, the Paneuropean force thundered toward the Combine defenders... *Inbound Threat analysis* >2 type 445 "Panzerschreck" Type SSMs< *Action* >Evasive/Interception< Unit GNL blurred into a series of radical S-turns as the Peep missiles descended at mach 6. It's Secondary batteries howled at the sky as 8000 Hivelocs per second screamed at the inbound missiles. At a height of 2 Km one missile erupted in a titanic explosion as it's Fuel tanks were ruptured by a kinetic penetrator. the second missile evaded all interception attempts and detonated at a height of 8 meters over Unit GNL. As the Mark II rumbled out of the Nuclear fireball, it's Main battery was a smoking pit in it's forward slope. *Impact Assessment* > Combat effectiveness 68.2267%< *Action* >Close with ENEMY CSU OGRE MkIII< Unit GNL accelerated North at 90kph, a massive dust trail arrowing into the sky from the cracked, swollen earth. As the OGRE swept by, Corporal Randall's Squad leapt aboard with Jump Packs blazing. " Time to earn our pay, Boys!!" Randall shouted into the comlink. As GNL darted toward the Peep Mark III, it unleashed a storm of Hivelocs from it's secondary batteries, the impacts stitching craters along the forward face of the ENEMY CSU. At the same moment a combine Missile Tank to the south launched a SM-77 Firestreak missile that slashed in at mach 5, impacting on the weakened armor of the Mark III's Main Battery. A massive electrically charged fireball erupted from the face of the OGRE as the accelerator coils discharged out of the hull in a corona of lightning. The Mark III lurched out of the fireball, a gaping hole on it's forward face where the Main battery once jutted.... To be continued...... Mike Wikan Game Design\Conceptual Art n-Space, Inc. A Producer of 3D Entertainment Products ------------------------------ From: garth.getgen@genie.com Subject: Math on the battleline Not to fuel the fire on the SUPER vs. HEAVY TANK debate too much, but a problem I have with the agruements as presented is they base the values on the premise of "if we start at range six" -- I don't think this is a fair basis in valueing the units. What if the HEAVYs are backed up againt the river and can't choose the range?? The numbers go out the window. What do the numbers say if all units start at range one??? Seriously, what your "analysis" tells me is NOT what price the units should have ... rather that you're a good tactician that has figured all options and determined the best usage of your units. Now, if you're faced off against a novice player (one that doesn't know the "odds"), your six SUPERs will likely smash his twelve HEAVYs. {Just my personal opinion, whether you wanted it or not.} Garth L. Getgen ------------------------------ From: garth.getgen@genie.com Subject: Errata on line By the way, does anyone have the rules to the re-released GEV/OGRE boxed set?? If so, please E-mail me direct -- I can't find a copy on the shelf and I want to see waht, if any, changes there were in the rules. Thanks. Garth L. Getgen ----- [The errata is online, follow the OGRE link from my home page. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: garth.getgen@genie.com Subject: Alternate Rules for Infantry I like infantry, but they tend to die too easily to be much good -- so I try to look for >reasonable< ways of keeping them alive/useful (such as my HIDDEN DEPLOYMENT rules). With that in mind, I've thought of a different way of resolving attacks on infantry riding armor units: If attacking an armor unit with infantry riding on it, make the attack on the armor unit per normal rules. If the result is a miss (NE), no further roll is needed. (Other units in the hex are still subject to SPILLOVER FIRE, of course.) If the result is a kill (X), roll again for a full strength attack on the infantry squad(s). If the result is a disable (D), roll for a half-strength attack on the infantry (reading D's and X's normally). If the infantry are INSIDE the armor unit (ie, Hovertrucks and APC's), use the same rules above but read D as NE and X as D. This rule applies to the board version of GEV; as the official minitures rules have slight but important differences in regards to attacking stacked units. Comments?? Garth L. Getgen ----- ["But Sarge, shouldn't we duck and cover?" "No Private. Feel this underneath us? 30cms of BCP. The popgun on that LGEV is gonna bounce right off this. We won't even be scratched." -HJC] ------------------------------ From: garth.getgen@genie.com Subject: APC debate Henry, Let's split the difference -- add yet another unit to fill the other gap. Assuming that GEV's weren't yet invented, the Hovertruck isn't around for use and the wheeled truck is near worthless, we need a half-track truck!! Leave the APC as I suggested: 1/2 D2 M3, moves as Lt Tank, carries three squads Infantry (two inside which can't fire, one on top that can fire). The half-track: No Attack, D1 M3, moves as Lt Tank, carries two squads of Infantry inside. Unlike the APC, there's no amphibious version. These are, obviously, direct equalivants of the GEV-PC and Hovertruck, but based (more or less) on the Light Tank frame. While >>I<< would rather buy the GEV-based versions, these fill the "gap" for scenarios and campaigns before GEVs are invented. Also, another arguement for the APC (or perhaps IAV: Infantry Assult Vehicle) to have Defense = 2 is that the GEV-PC also has the same rating. And before someone tells me that's because they get their defense from higher speed, I'll just point out that they don't loose any defense rating when they're disabled. By the way, I'm working up some ideas for a campaign called SPACE INVADERS, in which the Invaders have GEV technology and the Earth Forces do not -- but the Earth Forces have invented OGRES!! Garth L. Getgen ----- [GEVs DO NOT STOP when they are disabled, they simply spin around in circles. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: garth.getgen@genie.com Subject: Speed factors Someone asked or said something about how fast is fast in GEV -- well, I calculated it out (isn't Lotus 123 a neat program??): Hexes Km/Hr MPH Knots 1 22.5 14 12 2 45.0 28 24 3 67.5 42 36 4 90.0 56 49 5 112.5 70 61 6 135.0 84 73 7 157.5 98 85 8 180.0 112 97 9 202.5 126 109 10 225.0 140 122 11 247.5 154 134 12 270.0 168 146 13 292.5 182 158 14 315.0 196 170 15 337.5 210 182 16 360.0 224 194 17 382.5 238 207 18 405.0 252 219 19 427.5 265 231 20 450.0 279 243 Garth L. Getgen ------------------------------ From: "Devir Livraria Ltda." Subject: Miniatures list and hidden movement Henry wrote: Did the fall of man happen already and everybody just forgot to tell me about it? No, Henry, I'm just fewkin' ignerint and had no idea that you couldn't accept a "word" document easily. :) No offense, really. I have my 1/300th sci-fi miniatures list completed now. This is a complete listing (as complete as I can muster, at any rate)of what manufacturers out there are currently producing miniatures suitable for OGRE. This is not really OGRE stuff - just models to be used as a basis for kitbashing and substitutes until Steve finds a new manufacturer. The list includes price and contact information as well as stock numbers for especially interesting items. It's several pages long and is currently in .doc file format. I suppose I'll get it on this board someday... If anyone would like to take a look at it now, just drop me a line here at devir@uninet.com.br and I'll e-mail you a copy. Garth, I, too, like hidden movement A LOT, but find it tends to gum up the smooth flow of play. As a more workable option (and more rational, given the way sensors seem to work in the OGRE universe)how about the following: Use "force markers" to represent the approximate position of units on the table. In a minis game, these could be brightly painted styrofoam balls glued to coins. A OGRE/GEV board game would, of course, use counters. You mark the bottom of each coin (or the back of the counter) with a number and list what units are with which marker on a piece of scrap paper. In our games, we limit the number of units which can be hidden in a marker to 5 (3 points of INF = 1 unit). The composition of a force marker is revealed whenever one of three things happen: 1) the units within the marker fire 2) the marker moves while within the line-of-sight of an enemy unit or force marker. 3) an enemy unit closes to within four inches of the marker. Units which are revealed must be placed within inch of the marker's position - overrun combats can't be caused by placement (see rule 3 above). Force markers move acording to the least favorable movement class of the units within them. This of course means you should keep your markers out of the woods unless you want your opponent to know if they're GEVs or not. Combat occurs using one of the following rules: A) The units in the force marker can never be attacked, or B) Resolve combat assuming that the force marker has a DV of 6 - doubled in woods, swamp, city or ruin terrain. Only one unit (chosen by the owner of the marker) is affected by the combat result (i.e spillover fire doesn't happen). On any result other than a "NE", the surviving components of the force marker must be placed on the table. This rule allows recon by fire, as it were. You can also include "dummy" markers when using this rule. We generally allow each player 10 markers to use as he sees fit. We also say that ogres can never be part of a force marker - they're too big! You may want to make an exception for Ninjas and Mk Is, though... Force markers allow you to see that "something" is out there. What it is, however, is unknown until it reacts or someone gets close enough to get a fix on it. It changes the match into a tense game of bluff and counter-bluff and gives line-of-sight another reason to exist. Thad ------------------------------ From: garth.getgen@genie.com Subject: More GEV alternate rules A couple weeks ago, I show a friend this game and he had one complaint: stacking. His arguement (valid, if you think about it) was that with a scale of 1500 meters per hex, you should be able to stack more than five units per hex. Of course, he changed his mind some after I disabled a whole stack with SPILLOVER FIRE!! Now >>I<< rarely if ever stack two units in the same hex, but if someone really wants to do stack 'em high, I came up with some rules for them to do so. OVERSTACKING This experimental rule allows for more than five units to be stacked in a single hex; but as you'll soon see, the risks usually outweigh the tactical benefits. [Obviously, this rule only applies to the paper version of GEV.] The five-unit limitation on stacking (GEV rule 5.02) is lifted: any number of units may be in a single hex with no restrictions on movement. However, combat rules are changed as listed below. If fire is declared into the hex, the controlling player groups the units in "sets" of five. (If the last set is less than four units, move a unit from another set to even it out, ie 5+5+3 becomes 5+4+4.) Count three Infantry squads as one unit for stacking, Ogre Mark-III's and smaller as two units, and Mark-IV's and larger as three units each. The first set could have up to seven units: one Command Post and one fixed Howitzer do not count against the five-unit limit of the set. The attacker then chooses one unit in one set to attack and fires on it normally, and performs SPILLOVER fire on the other units in that set only. But the attacker adds ONE to the total Attack Strength for each set after the first in the target hex. In other words, if there are three sets in the hex, the attacker gets a +2 to the attack strength. Similarly, during OVERRUN attacks both the attacker and defender divide their units up into sets of five. There is no attack strength bonus like above. The attacker chooses a set to attack a defending set (however, he may not choose the set with a "free" Command Post and/or "free" Howitzer until all other defening sets have been attacked) and the units fight as per normal OVERRUN rules. Once one side wins, the attacker again chooses a defending set to attack, either with the same set or another. This continoues until one side or the other wins the overall hex. Once divided up, unit sets are unchangable until the overall hex battle is resolved. With each mini-overrun, the surviving units remain in separate sets, though the attacker may combine partial sets to form a full(er) set between each set-battle. Garth L. Getgen ------------------------------ Henry J. Cobb hcobb@io.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 1997, by Steve Jackson Games.