============ OGREverse list, Aug 8th (Last: Aug 3rd) ============= ===== Jamming Sensors From: VIPER394@aol.com ===== Smart Missiles come wobbling down. From: "Pat O'Hara" ===== Penetrating Questions From: Daniel Tulloh ===== Nuclear Hand Grenades From: Chris Camfield ------------------------------ From: VIPER394@aol.com Subject: Jamming Sensors William spenser is basicly right but he failed to mention the oldest and best sensor availble which is very hard to take out. The Mk 1 eyeball maybee a robotic system is not gona have anything comprable but even the traning and equiping of an infantry Brigade will be cheeper than all but the cheepest ogre and that brigade will have between 4000 and 6000 eyeballs in it ----- ["I don't know how you'd jam a laser (except with smoke or window -- unfeasible over large areas), but in a hundred years they may think of something." -Steve Jackson, http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/articles/notes.html Once optical frequencies are jammed eyeballs don't see much. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: "Pat O'Hara" Subject: Smart Missiles come wobbling down. Regarding itelligently guided munitions. Parachute rounds and self guided missles do exist today and are not shot down with much regularity. The reason defensive systems simply fill the sky with bullets is not because the computers are to slow to track the incoming munition, but because the machinery is to slow to adjust. A completely "dead" arc is pretty ease to predict, but a munition hanging from a parachute is effected by wind which cannot be pridicted reliably. It is also relativly easy to build a wobble into just about anything (offset gyro) making it very difficult to hit. Finally, we seem to be overlooking the fact that the attack will not send one of these munitions, but rather pairs, tens, or hundereds. Guided munitions either skim the surface until the last possible moment (good for fixed targets) or appear in droves on the battle field today. Tansk for your support PatO ------------------------------ From: Daniel Tulloh Subject: Penetrating Questions > From: awflower@midway.uchicago.edu > Dan Tulloh wrote: > >> [And while that parachute-shell is hanging up there and > >> lining up on the target it'll be shot down or jammed, > >> no? -HJC] > >Mmmm....there's not much of a chance of this. I can't say too > >much about this particular munition, but the likelyhood of it > >being shot down is relatively small. > > You think? On a nuclear battlefield? > > Part of what the defense values represent (IIRC) is point-defense. So > you've got a small railgun in a cupola above each vehicle, firing > nuclear-tipped rounds. Lets assume this point-defense system can fire both ballistic and missile munitions. We can therefore fire ballistic munitions vs "dumb" rounds and missiles vs rounds with a maneuvering capability. > The computer detects a ballistic trajectory, or a parachute shell, > and a quick airburst nearby either A) wastes the thing, or B) > scrambles its electronics with EMP. The computer detects an incoming round, selects the appropriate defensive round and fires. Even if the incoming round is hardened against EMP, the shockwave from a relatively close blast would be capable of knocking it down, or at least screw up its trajectory enough so that it doesnt have enough time to recover before it reaches the intended target. How do you make the case for anything *BUT* KE rounds in such an environment? Missiles are susceptible to getting hit, having their innards fried or just plain being knocked off-course. Are the things going to entirely encased in BPC? This kind of technology wasnt anywhere near available when Steve dreamed up OGRE. Perhaps you could argue all of this away by using a different timeline. But its difficult for me to see how the OGRE universe could evolve given where technology seems to be leading us today. And perhaps thats the answer - should we even be trying to apply today's developments to the OGREverse? After this discussion, I would argue against it. Dan ------------------------------ From: Chris Camfield Subject: Nuclear Hand Grenades > [With a battlesuit and a handy ridgeline I can see a use for a "hand" >tossed grenade. My most twisted fantasy in the OGREverse is the >possibility of Rangers or (shudder) Militia attaching nuclear limpets to >the sides of passing OGREs. -HJC] Amen to that! "I got a flash of one MI clinging to a tread with a limpet bomb, then we were past and the missiles landed..." ("G.E.V.", by J. D. Bell, I don't know what SG issue, but it's in the Ogre book.) [chop] >Part of what the defense values represent (IIRC) is point-defense. So >you've got a small railgun in a cupola above each vehicle, firing >nuclear-tipped rounds. Fish, this sounds a lot more like Grav Armor to me. I don't remember any reference to defensive weaponry of this sort in any Ogre fiction or descriptions. If armour had these, then Ogres would have them. And if Ogres have them - big ones, or lots of them, neh? - shouldn't they be separately targetable (to lower the Ogre defences overall)? Jamming and armour is the way I see the Ogreverse... CC Chris Camfield - ccamfield@cyberus.ca Big Rude Jake Fan Club President Visit the Big Rude Page at "http://www.bigrudejake.com"! "I've had dinner with the devil, and I know nice from right" (BRJ) ----- [http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/articles/bellgev.html -HJC] Henry J. Cobb hcobb@io.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 1998, by Steve Jackson Games.