============ OGREverse list, June 13th (Last: June 7th) ============= ===== Copyright From: OHara Walter From: Steve Jackson ------------------------------ From: OHara Walter Subject: Copyright Steve Jackson, of Steve Jackson Games, sez: >But when people start telling me that they can use my stuff without >permission; that they have a RIGHT to do so, bla bla . . . they are pushing >a button that should not be pushed, and making it harder for the people who >are willing to observe the decencies and formalities. I've been trying to follow the SJG vs. PbeM-OGRE issue (admittedly badly, since it gets excerpted on about three mailing lists that I know of, and you can imagine the distortion). Just out of curiosity, did somebody actually claim they had a RIGHT to do so? Was there a law cited? Did they trundle out the First Amendment or something? The Fair Use Law? I presume the event that got this issue started was the OGRE/GEV gamebox that was briefly available on the Web. Did the creator of that gamebox return to you for a fanware license? Or did Dale Larson do so? Is the position of SJG that a gamebox created with original art (not just scans of the counter set and maps, for instance) is also derivative? I'm guessing you'll say yes based upon your earlier comments. I don't want to play the game of "for instance" with you, but to illustrate, if I were to create a gamebox called "Walt's SF tactical Simulator... FREE for the download!" which had little stick men on red backgrounds, a map with dots on it, all created freehand with no rules or game mechanics visible in the set, and THEN I decided to use it to play, oh, say, Battlesuit, is the *action* of playing defined as a taking advantage of derivative work, or the set itself at this point? Inquiring minds (and gamebox designers) want to know! ----- From: Steve Jackson Subject: Copyright > I've been trying to follow the SJG vs. PbeM-OGRE issue (admittedly >badly, since it gets excerpted on about three mailing lists that I know of, >and you can imagine the distortion). Just out of curiosity, did somebody >actually claim they had a RIGHT to do so? Was there a law cited? Did they >trundle out the First Amendment or something? The Fair Use Law? A character who ran a web page with a bunch of these tried to argue that it was fair use. > I presume the event that got this issue started was the OGRE/GEV >gamebox that was briefly available on the Web. Did the creator of that >gamebox return to you for a fanware license? He has now. Another licensed box, for V_MAP, is already available. > Is the position of SJG that a gamebox created with original art (not >just scans of the counter set and maps, for instance) is also derivative? If the original art "copies" the existing counters and maps, absolutely. >I'm guessing you'll say yes based upon your earlier comments. I don't want >to play the game of "for instance" with you, but to illustrate, if I were to >create a gamebox called "Walt's SF tactical Simulator... FREE for the >download!" which had little stick men on red backgrounds, a map with dots >on it, all created freehand with no rules or game mechanics visible in the >set, and THEN I decided to use it to play, oh, say, Battlesuit, is the >*action* of playing defined as a taking advantage of derivative work, or the >set itself at this point? That would be an interesting question! Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the Secret Service case Learn Web or die - http://www.sjgames.com/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua! The heck with PGP keys; finger for Geek Code. Fnord. ----- [I hate to break into this discussion with something completely unrelated, but two cable channels (Discovery and Sci-Fi) covered the concept of robot warriors today. Sci-Fi's Sightings says that equivalency of processing power and storage capacity with the brain will be reached in 15 years, plus or minus 5 years. (Don't you feel as smart as a thousand supercomputers?) But that full understanding of the brain will take 50 to 100 years. (Software is always late and buggy, no?) But, there is one company that thinks that they're already there. "Windows: It's the part of the computer that's human." What is your opinion of humanity today? -HJC] Henry J. Cobb hcobb@io.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 1998, by Steve Jackson Games.