============ OGREverse list, Mar 4th (Last: Mar 1st) ============= ===== OGRE questions From: Wil ===== Making Maps From: "Andrew Walters" ===== Ogre-compatible maps From: Noah Doyle ===== Infantry on Cycles From: Servitor@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Wil Subject: OGRE questions Ogre was the first game I ever played, 20 years ago. I played it all the way through high school and thereafter, but have since lost (or my parents gave away) the games. I've recently gone through some of my sources to see if I could buy them again, to no avail. As a stopgap, I am going to try to convert the Ogre units to Silhouette (the system used for the Heavy Gear and Jovian Chronicles games). I was wondering if you would be kind enough to send me links or information that provide "real world" statistics for the Ogres, GEVS and other vehicles - top speeds, weights, main armament, etc - if available. Thank you for your time. "Nihilistic mystics, apostolic alcoholics, messianic manics, cataclysmic and prolific...In the age of super-boredom, hype and mediocrity, celebrate relentlessness, menace to society" - KMFDM, "Megalomaniac" Visit Warp & Weft: A Resource for Tribe 8 at http://www.keyway.net/~sinner/warp.htm ----- [Why not start with OGRE Minis? You can buy that at Steve's site, last I checked. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: "Andrew Walters" Subject: Making Maps I had to produce a couple large Ogre maps last fall for a convention tournament and I came up with a couple of techniques worth describing. The Ingredients: inkjet printer drawing software cheap non-white resume paper paper cutter tape sliding glass door clear contact paper (aka shelf paper corn chips Starting in your draw program create yourself some hexagons: 2" for minis, 3/4" for counters. Hopefully your draw program lets you do this pretty easily. Make sure you line the hexes up precisely; use the magnification function of the drawing software. Hopefully, your software also lets you make a drawing of the size you need, even if its several pages. Another really important feature to use if you have it is printing overlap. This means that each page printed will contain some of the material from adjacent pages. Mine (Canvas) allows me to set the overlap, I think I used .5", but I remember wishing it were more during assembly. The overlap will *greatly* aid lining the edges up. Now that you've got your hexes down go ahead and draw in the terrain. You'll probably want to use large areas of patterns. Aim to use as little ink as possible, not only to save cost, but large areas of solid color will make the paper wrinkle. This means using patterns of two or three colors of dots on a white background on the screen, remembering that you'll be printing on non-white paper. Some people are more visually oriented than others. This is not something I could explain really well, but essentially some people will not enjoy a game if its ugly. If you're like this you understand already, if you're not you might want to put some thought into this for the sake of the others who will play on your map. I never bought Titan: The Arena because its too garish for me, and Up Front is more of a chore for me than I'd like it to be. You have to hand it to SJ Games for doing a great job with their graphics, but I digress. Its worth suggesting at this point that you go through your collection of wargames and looking at the maps you really like and really hate. What are the elements that make the difference? I hate really bold hex grids, forrest and swamp that are indistinguishable from each other, garish colors, busy-ness, logos and titles that obscure terrain. I really like subtle, gradiated colors, winding roads that don't necessarily turn at sixty degrees, unobtrusive doodles such as buildings or historical points that don't effect play, easy distinction of the elements that are tactically important. Time, space, and ink are all limited, so a little thought can really pay off. How to create terrain? This is easier for some people than for others. If you're like me and its tough for you, try working from real terrain, creatively. Use the shape of a penninsula from a road map for the shape of a forest. Consider whether you want a big, open space where GEVs will rule, or a thickly forested area with streams around it that a couple of howitzers could make unassailable. If you're designing a map for a particular scenario you might want something like that, but if its for general use you might want to avoid this. The original GEV map, while not too believeable to my mind, is a masterpiece of tactical puzzles, with no excessively strong or weak points, unless you make them that way. Now, of course, your terrain is over your hex grid, possibly obscuring it. Unless you like this look move the hex grid to the top. Again, I'm hopeful that this is easy in your drawing program. Now you want to print it. First print just the first page to see how your color dot patterns look on your paper, etc. When you're satisfied print the whole map. By "cheap resume paper" I meant inexpensive (no reason to pay ten cents a sheet), but not white and not even-colored. Texture is bad, but you want something somewhat mottled or smudgy, hopefully on the largest scale possible. If you can get a marbled paper that doesn't have bright white as one of its components that would be ideal, to my mind, but use what you like. The idea is to avoid bright white and even colors, they make things look flat. Actually, its the computer generated terrain patterns that make it look flat, and we're trying to mitigate that. Now you've got six, twelve or sixteen pieces of paper, each with a half-inch white border around all the edges. Use the paper cutter to trim off all the white border and just a little of the printed area on the left side of every piece of paper except those along the left of the map edge, and the bottom edge of every piece of paper except those along the bottom of the map edge. By the way, remember that you can have your drawing program reprint just one page if you ruin one. Hopefully there is sunlight on the other side of your sliding glass door at this point. Any large window or a light table will do. Start by placing the top right corner piece (the only corner piece with two trimmed edges) face to the glass in the upper left hand side of the window, and tape it there. Then take the piece that will be just to the left of that in the final map, and place it on the windows to the right of the first piece, behind and overlapping it. The light shinging through will help you see the printing on both pieces of paper in the overlap area. Line them up precisely, then tape the second piece to the first. Then tape its top edge to the window, as well. Its extremely important to get the two pages lined up precisely, particularly with the first few pages. With the first few pages its very easy to get something that *looks* like its lined up, but a tiny error gets magnified later. For example, if you're off half a degree with the center of rotation in the middle of the edge, the error at the end of that page will be .048", barely noticeable. The error at the end of your four page map, 38" away, will be .33", Argh! Use the intersections of the hex grids, roads, etc to line things up perfectly. This is really tedious and takes time, but it saves frustation later. Kinda like putting gas in your car. And starting with the second row of pieces you'll need to line up *two* map edges this way. In this careful manner work left to right, top to bottom. If you start to notice that things either won't line up or are not flat to the glass, back up a bit and try to correct it. After taping down each piece I would run my hand from the top left corner down and across to verify that it was staying flat. Much squinting and arm-straining later it you'll have a big, flat map. If you like the subtle, gradiated color look this is a good time to add some touches to take away from the computer-generated look. Get a big, soft brush and some very diluted watercolor and add some large scale, very faint colors. Green around the forest, blue in the deeper water (but not near the coast). Too much water and the paper will wrinkle, too much color and people will wonder what its supposed to mean, etc. Less is more. Now its beautiful, but since its taped on the back and there's a half-inch overlap there are great big flaps everywhere. Enter the clear contact paper. I suggest cutting a piece larger than necessary, laying it out flat on a big table or clean floor, peeling off the backing, then rolling your map onto it. You might want to reherse this once: the taped joints can hinge and the flaps get in the way. If you roll it out the right direction things should go smoothly. A helper is a good thing to have. Since the contact paper is longer than the map its more important to make sure the two are lined up in the same direction than that they start at the same point. You can cut away extra contact paper, but if you have a diagonal seam you'll be staring at it forever. I should mention the corn chips at this point. I like the Tostitos white corn chips, but they're kind of pricey. Suit yourself. Some people even prefer potato chips, though I don't know why. The only important point is to make sure you get rid of all the crumbs and wash your hands before doing the contact paper step. Larger maps will be wider than your contact paper, which forces a choice: do you overlap your two pieces of contact paper? If you don't you have to be very careful- any gap will be very visible and will create a vulnerablility to wear, spill, dirt, etc. If you overlap the contact paper, as I did, here are three pieces of advice about the seams: #1 Be sure they're straight, #2 overlap 1/2-3/4 inch, not just 1/8th, it will be smoother, #3 place the contact paper seam away from map piece seams. Last thought on contact paper - the stuff I use is forgiving, you can pull it off and put it back down again and it won't rip the paper. But it will pick up some of the ink. This can add depth to your terrain features, but it wreaks havoc on the hex grid. Do it right the first time. For an afternoon's work and a couple dollars you have a big, beautiful, and durable map. ------------------------------ From: Noah Doyle Subject: Ogre-compatible maps >It would be nice if a list of compatible map boards for Ogre was >posted. Here's a few that I have found to work quite well... Ardennes, (The Gamers) Battle of the Bulge, scale is almost dead on, 1 mile to the hex. Lots of forests, roads, and French towns to nuke. Perfect for the PanEuro counteroffensives...rather pretty map, too. 2 standard wargame maps. (22' x 34' each) Air & Armor, (West End Games) Another NATO v. Warsaw Pact Central Front map, Wurzburg being one of the landmarks. 1 mile hexes, not a very attractive map, but good for a collection of urban areas, with a good road network...but not for long. 1 standard wargame map. Berlin '85: Enemy at the Gates, (SPI) An older Strategy & Tactics game, probably hard to find, but worth it for a change of pace. Nearly the entire map is urban, with highways, rail and such. Lots of victory locations to be held & taken, and the terrain promises a radioactive bloodbath. 1 standard wargame map. Red Parachutes, (Avalanche) An excellent game in it's own right, this 2 km/hex map converts well, and is *very* attractive...but Ogre's don't get distracted by scenery while crossing the Dnepr. Wide open spaces, a big river, and only a few bridges. Lots of potential. 1 standard map. Operation Market-Garden: Descent Into Hell (GDW) Actually, 2 maps, from a good double-blind game. Double-blind Ogre/GEV? Be afraid... The map is all right at best, artistically, but it works for Ogre, at 2 km/hex. It's sort of an expanded original Ogre map, 11' x 17', with forests, irrigated areas (swamps), roads, cities and streams. The roads provide fast movement into the rear areas, if not guarded. Air Assault on Crete, (Avalon Hill) This is another odd one, 3 mapboards, each 8' x 22', covering the northern coast of Crete. 1.6 km/hex, and lots of very rough terrain - might need some new rules (infantry only?). Some versions of this game come with a smaller game, using the same system, 'Invasion of Malta'. The map for this one is almost better: 11' x 16', it shows the entire island of Malta, and is perfect for an assault/defense game. Squad Leader/Adv. Squad Leader, (Avalon Hill) Well, we all know about AH, so get their stuff ASAP, if you want it. 'But,' you say, 'SL/ASL isn't anywhere near Ogre/GEV scale...', and I would say, 'Ah-hah! but those 40-yard hexes sure do seem close to Battlesuit..." You'll need to whip up a few new rules, but PA fights on SL/ASL boards are truly fun. just watch your LOS... Hope these expand your Ogre possibilities... Noah Doyle nvdoyle@midlink.com ------------------------------ From: Servitor@aol.com Subject: Infantry on Cycles In a message dated 3/2/99 12:34:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, hcobb@io.com writes: << [Wasn't there already an OGRE in Car Wars article? -HJC] >> Dunno. But I bet it was probably along the lines of "Apply lighter fluid and a match to the mapboard to simulate the use of a tactical nuke in Car Wars..." -(With a tip of the hat to "Murphy's Rules".) best, flunky ----- [Ha! (Summon OGRE, semi-automatic spell...) I've been thinking about the motorcycle troops, and here's my current stab. Motorcycle Recon, Atk 1/1, Def 1, Move 2/1 These units defend like infantry squads but cannot stack. (D is kill) They move like light tanks, except that instead of the standard road bonus, they only pay one half a move point for each hex traveled down a road. (So they can move upto six hexes a turn, unlike LGEVs which make nine hexes a turn on roads.) Their attack is doubled during overruns. (Maybe they swing chains or something...) As for the cost, I donno. Maybe three points each. (Perhaps they'd be worth that if the range was two hexes.) -HJC] Henry J. Cobb ogre@sjgames.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 1999, by Steve Jackson Games.