============ OGREverse list, Dec 20th (Last: Dec 16th) ============= ===== An odd idea for the Factory States era Ogres From: Stephan Beal From: "Hunt, Kirk (Tucson)" From: Steve Jackson ===== Structures for Minis From: Sethkimmel@aol.com ===== The new odd GEVs From: Kerr Ballantyne From: Sethkimmel@aol.com From: jkajpust@concentric.net ===== Picking up counters From: largecardriver5@webtv.net (e.w.markle) ===== Ogre travel gameset From: Nyrath the nearly wise ===== missile tanks From: David Morse ===== Calling GEV-PCs Names From: Steve Jackson ===== pronunciation of gev From: David Morse ------------------------------ From: Stephan Beal Subject: An odd idea for the Factory States era Ogres > Most of you, I'll bet, are familiar with the Nato alphabet and all ... > How about Ogres taking names similar to those? > > Victor Zulu > Juliet Bravo > Papa Mike > > And others... > > What do you folks think? I think it adds a bit of color and humanizes > Ogres and their ilk. According the preface in Ogre, (this is not the exact quote, but it's something like this), "... enemy units were called 'he'... friendly units of the caller's aquaintence were simply called _it_... and most people tried to stay a respectable distance, preferably several kilometers, even from those." Undoubtedly, though, each individual unit would realistically be given a nickname by those it served with, but the official names would likely be much different. Think of it like server computers (if that's something you're familiar with) - each of them is a Solaris X.Y box, or Windows NT SP4 machine, Linux, etc., running on Compaq or IBM or Dell hardware... but we simply call each one by name: dionysos, cheyenne, zeus, chico, etc., etc. I have no doubt that Ogres (and even lesser units) would take on names of their own. > From: "Andrew Walters" > Subject Short Thoughts on Militia and Related ... > Militia are never going to go away. As Steve once said, "A navy with > nothing but battleships would be a pretty poor excuse for a navy, but > I wouldn't want to be the first person they got mad at." Your > power-suited infantry are great, but they're expensive. Militia are, > dollar for dollar, more cost effective. Of course, its not remotely > all about money, but you can't afford to have powered infantry > everywhere you need infantry. A lot of places are going to be > garrisoned with non-powered infantry, whatever you want to call them, > which would be rapidly reinforced with real stuff if attacked. Good point. The way I've always rationalized that away is that players don't play out _every_ battle - just the important ones. It's similar to the idea behind PCs in roleplaying games - they _are_ special, and they _do_ have it better that John Q. Public. In other words - let the lower-echelon officers use militia, and let the human players get on with the "really important battles." ;) > As for backward compatibility of Maps, my Shockwave set from > 1980-whatever doesn't fit my new Ogre/GEV board. Steve's making me > buy a new copy of Shockwave! Of course I know the maps aren't going > to get any larger, but I wish they were big. True, true. I've got the same problem - only two maps from the 80's, and they're not usable with the new printings. I don't see this as all that bad - when I first found GEV in '87 or so, it cost me $4.95 or so, and I think 13 years is well beyond the expected lifetime of that product. In fact, I have bought several copies each of Shockwave and the Reinforcements pack just for the extra maps. At the prices GEV goes for, I don't consider that a huge problem. > [We have (had? ;-) another game for showing the effects of Militia vs > MI. > > It was called Battlesuit. Oooh, wow! I've still got my battlesuit game. Never played it, but I've had it for well over 10 years. > From: "Andrew Walters" > Subject Ogre Unit Cost Formulas: Henrys > > I'm putting together an Ogre room for the Pyramid MOO, and one of the > little toys is a Vehicle evaluator using your formula and giving the > results in "Henrys". That is, that's what I'm doing if you don't > mind. Its all your work, and I'll leave it out if you have an > objection. Its instructions will include appropriate disclaimers and > a pointer to your web page. It should be fun. See http://byoo.rootonfire.org for a web-based Build Your Own Ogre. It scores the Ogres in in "Ciscos", but the numbers should work out pretty close to Henries, and (as far as I have ever seen) comes _very_ close to the numbers listed in Shockwave for the original Ogre models. That system was created by Francisco "Cisco" Cestero. ----- Stephan Beal Generic Universal Computer Guy stephan.beal@einsurance.de http://www.einsurance.de Office: +49 (89) 53 07 38 32 (Don't bother. I never answer it.) Handy: +49 (179) 2119767 (I rarely answer that one, too.) ------------------------------ From: "Hunt, Kirk (Tucson)" Subject: An odd idea for the Factory States era Ogres >How about Ogres taking names similar to those? > >Victor Zulu >Juliet Bravo >Papa Mike That might be their "official" names from HQ, but the troops, and the self-aware Ogres, would adopt more colorful names like Stormbringer, Excalibur, Panzerblitzen, etcetera. "YOU tell Victor Zulu his name isn't 'Deathsword'..." Without arguing the physics or numbers of MLAWS: there's how much you hit the target with, and WHERE you hit the target. The tactics of using current LAWS and Dragons requires that you pick the RIGHT spot and/or get multiple hits on the "same" spot. This requires teams of soldiers firing in tight sequence to get the hit. Maybe... Check out http://155.217.58.58/root/cgisearch.htm for additional details... Kirk ----- From: Steve Jackson Subject: An odd idea for the Factory States era Ogres >Papa Mike > >And others... > >What do you folks think? I think it adds a bit of color and humanizes >Ogres and their ilk. It's a thought. What's the song with the refrain "Mayday, this is Echo Hotel" ? Jim Kajpust - You're thinking of the Paneuropean design for the GEV. If that's the kind you want, hang on a couple of months. Sounds like you want a Paneuropean army . . . John sez: >While I have no facts, I do believe that DCP (the company that produced those >items) is currently out of business, or at least in hiatus. It's out of business, more's the pity. We intend to produce the buildings, but we are still ramping up our mastering AND production capabilities . . . Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the Secret Service case Learn Web or die - http://www.sjgames.com/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua! The heck with PGP keys; finger for Geek Code. Fnord. ----- [Hey Steve, stray computation here, will there be any effort to dual-purpose any minis for both OGRE and Traveller? -HJC] ------------------------------ From: Sethkimmel@aol.com Subject: Structures for Minis << While I have no facts, I do believe that DCP (the company that produced those items) is currently out of business, or at least in hiatus. How about it Steve? Any plans in the near future for any of those items? >> Scuttlebutt is that SJ got the molds and unsold stock from DCP when the owner (one man operation apparently...) burned out and quit casting... This is UNSUBSTANTIATED however...I too hope that if this is true, that SJ start casting again; especially the bridges and laser towers.... ------------------------------ From: Kerr Ballantyne Subject: The new odd GEVs **** The biggest disappointment is the GEVs. They look like space ships from Space 1999. I've always pictured a GEV as a hovercraft type of vehicle with rounded skirts and a couple of engine pods on the top back. These GEVs have four little "feet" thingies along with two fins poking out the top of the body. **** Hey, that's what the COMBINE GEV's used to look like. Besides there are two points. GEV (Ground Effect Vehicle) is a loose term that can be used as a generic term. Actually the Shark like body is kinda fun. According to all the fluff until the end of the Final War the Combine was supposedly slightly techincally ahead of the PAN EUROPEANS as represented by the fact that the MARK V was designed and built by COMBINE forces first. Secondly, what's to say that they don't use different skirts or more powerful/advanced fan assembles with metal skirts (aka HAMMER SLAMMERS type) or what if they successfully designed the "repulsor field" or a true Anti-Gravity vehicle. The last two possibilities would be even more tantalizing as that kind of technology would be cool and allow for some serious fun GURPS OGRE scenarios.... "Okay, there is a working Combine GEV being annaylized by Force X and we need to recover it for Force Y" Yep, definitely some fun stuff. And if you don't like them........I'll take them ;-) Kerr Ballantyne PS: As for the Militia question? Why not just give them someting like Attack:1 regardless of the defense number with an OVERRUN value of 3x Defense ratio representing those satchel charges, small signatures, and just plain numbers that would be represented. Also move of 1 hex (2" in Mini's) would be fine as it represents the normal grunt slugging it through the mud and dirt. ----- From: Sethkimmel@aol.com Subject: The new odd GEVs << The biggest disappointment is the GEVs. They look like space ships from Space 1999. I've always pictured a GEV as a hovercraft type of vehicle with rounded skirts and a couple of engine pods on the top back. These GEVs have four little "feet" thingies along with two fins poking out the top of the body. >> That's because they're Combine GEV's. The Paneuropean GEV's look just like the game counters (and just like your description). SJ did this because Ral Partha cast a HECK of lot more Paneuropean armor than Combine, so most people who still have those, have mostly Paneuro armor. The SJ site said that Deluxe GEV will have the "proper" :-) GEV's (and I have to admit I like the Paneuro GEV's better too...). ----- From: jkajpust@concentric.net Subject: The new odd GEVs Yes, you're correct. I looked at my Ogre miniatures book today and the Combine GEVs are in fact the odd looking critters that came in the Deluxe set. BTW, I dug out my old Microgame Ogre book ($2.95 back in the seventies) and the GEVs on the cover have the look of the GEV we all know and love. Jim Kajpust - Personal Responsibility - Personal Freedoms Michigan - http://www.concentric.net/~jkajpust ------------------------------ From: largecardriver5@webtv.net (e.w.markle) Subject: Picking up counters Oh! all us old, goin blind gamers. As to the picking up counters. Use the blue or yellow poster mounting stuff from a Wal or a K mart or even an office supply place. Wrap a bit around a pencil, tap it on the counter (it sticks) then move it and 'roll' the pencil with the counter against the map and deposit it where you want it. ------------------------------ From: Nyrath the nearly wise Subject: Ogre travel gameset A while ago I made an Ogre gameset for the gamer on the go. All you need is a piece of steel the size of the map, and lots of magnetic tape. You can cut the steel from a cookie sheet, or go to your local hardware store. Magnetic tape can be found in most arts and craft stores, used to make tacky little refrigerator magnets. It is slightly thick, but it is also almost exactly the width of the counters, and has an adhesive back. The obvious advantages include immunity from somebody brushing the map and scattering the counters, and easy clean up (just pick the map up and slide into a manila envelope. ------------------------------ From: David Morse Subject: missile tanks > [What? The Ajax is a great little unit for urban combat, because it > usually doesn't have to depart cover to engage. -HJC] What?, a GEV can run away into city at the same range, or run away into clear a hex even farther. And it has the 3.5x mobility advantage.... Here, we're really thinking about raising their range to 5 hexes. That'd give them the ability to at least push back an equivalent number of GEVs. Then again that kinda breaks the HVY TNK, but I was thinking of giving it range 3 as well. I know, its playing with the holy numbers, like changing pi... ----- [Everytime I look at the GEV map, I fail to see an endless wasteland. For a GEV to take full advantage of it's strike range, it has to move through almost all of the terrain in it's way, while a Missile Tank can stand back behind a stream or a patch of woods and reach over the obstacle. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: Steve Jackson Subject: Calling GEV-PCs Names Don't have a final name for either side's yet. Combine - Mercury or Roadrunner? Paneuropean - Napoleon, or Seguro (spanish for "Reliable")? Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the Secret Service case Learn Web or die - http://www.sjgames.com/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua! The heck with PGP keys; finger for Geek Code. Fnord. ----- [Combine: Bradley! (Not named after the General, but rather another vehicle that left the infantry unprotected... ;-) -HJC] ------------------------------ From: David Morse Subject: pronunciation of gev What is the proper pronunciation of "G.E.V."? ----- [Giga Electron Volt. -HJC ;-] Henry J. Cobb ogre@sjgames.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 2000, by Steve Jackson Games.