============ OGREverse list, May 2nd (Last: Apr 19th) ============= ===== Strategic Rules From: Stephen Said ===== Hackers in Ogre From: VIPER394@aol.com ===== Quick Ogre question From: "Grogan, Paul" ===== Whole bunch of comments From: rtot ===== Lunar Ogre From: "William Spencer" From: Todd Zircher ===== OGRE Miniatures From: jkajpust@concentric.net ===== OGREs as three letter words From: SciGuyFla@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Stephen Said Subject: Strategic Rules hello, long time no contrib! but i have still been thrashing through a suitable means to do strategic rules! but before i get into that a question. hw infantry. if you have three squads stacked and one of them has fired their missile already, if the three squads are reduced to two, is it simply a matter of 1-2 the squad that had fired is eliminated and 4-6 one of the other squads still carrying the missile is eliminated? here's the strategic stuff... first shot, each player commands a battalion made up of 5 companies (arbitrarily) each company can be made up of 30 - 40 armour points and 12 or so squads. one battalion is the defender and the other the invader. (der...) the battalions are commanded by majors. each has a 'strategy' rating between 1 to 5. kinda like the simple character system used in car wars. on the strategic map, the overall commander with the highest strategy rating opts to move first or last, their choice. on the strategic map, companies wholly composed of gev type vehicles get a strategic movement of 3. companies with tracked vehicles 2 and companies with missile crawlers and mobile howitzers get a movement of 1. when the companies come in contact with each other, the company commander (a captain?) has a tactics rating. the tactics rating is the number of rolls during combat (s)he can request be rerolled, either his or his opponents. ie: the defender of the cp that has just been destroyed can request the killing shot be rerolled because just before he requested all tactical units attempt to jam the attacking unit, kind of scenario that more experienced tactical commanders can use their experience to alter. all of the rerolls can be used on the one shot (if you want to waste them, ie: a commander with tac 3 and the other with tac 2 can use all their requests on the one roll to be rerolled so the one roll can be rolled 6 times...) the only problem i am having is in terms of after battle reinforcements. should the companies get a percentage of their companies back as salvages or do they get assigned more forces from theatre reserve? a combination of both? does it depend on objectives, ie if you capture an ogre production centre how many can you use etc. what are your suggestions in relation to percentages etc. also the other idea was, should the companies keep track of individual surviving units at the end of a battle or should you just count up the points and then the next time that company goes into battle the player just choose forces again? maybe their should be a template for a particular company, ie: an assault company can have x amount of hvy tanks and x amount of gev's. i dunno, what do you reckon? -- Regards, Stephen | Stephen Said + Whoopi Limited | | Webcast Master + Melbourne, Australia | e: stephen@whoopi.net w: www.whoopi.net p: +613 9696-4747 f: +613 9696-9390 icq: 1854143 ----- [Each time the ruling has been that you randomly select which squad is lost, whenever it matters. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: VIPER394@aol.com Subject: Hackers in Ogre << [It is very difficult to hack a computer that has a mind of it's own. In some of the Bolo stories there were built-in worms to disable rogue units. (If only the OGRE designers had thought of that...) >> But remember in the Bolo books The worms killed Bolos who were trying to stop Treasonous Humans ------ [Lesson for future programmers being that failsafes in computerized weapon systems will only be abused anyway, so don't bother putting them in, no? -HJC] ------------------------------ From: "Grogan, Paul" Subject: Quick Ogre question SuperHeavy's How do they move related to Heavy Tanks, I though they were both affected by terrain the same. I've read that they are overcosted, and that their defence may be increased to 5 for the new Shockwave. Do you agree? - Your calculator comes out with them costed at 12.2, which seems about right. Thanks for your time Paul Paul Grogan NT Server Development and Support GlaxoWellcome Int: 782 2603 Ext: 01438 762603 ----- [Why should anybody trust my calculator? Superheavies move like OGREs, not Heavy Tanks, for the few cases it matters. They used to have a big advantage against cruise missiles, but the new rules in OGRE Minis puts even OGREs at risk against cruise missiles. Hint: Use an all-missile crawler defense against a Mark V sometime. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: rtot Subject: Whole bunch of comments Whole bunch of comments but I will try to keep them brief :) Subject Names for Ogre armor units I think you might want to go with specific names for units. Fiction aside I think they will sell better if people can identify with them. For example, people who like modern planes know the A 10 but almost everyone calls it the Warthog. Subject What about close quarters combat with nuclear weapons? When I play ogre I tend to think of the Cruise missiles as tactical and the stuff being fired by Ogres and Units as conventional. The concept that all units are firing Tac Nukes back and forth is a bit hard to deal with. Tactical Nuclear weapons are a bit of a contradictory term :) Subject Lunar Ogre Variant Loved the idea of the Lunar Ogre Variant. I have always had the idea that Ogre was a game system that could easily be used for armored combat on other planets (with even the infantry wearing suits, armored units having life support, etc). Of course I have a bunch of comments... Given enough investment the cost of sending units into space would not be as prohibative as we currently view the cost of space travel. The more stuff you want to ship the more economical it would become (within reason, it would still be somewhat pricey). As for terrain, I like the idea of cliffs but my preference would be not to include LOS rules for cliffs. Ease of play is one of the great things about Ogre and also, I think technology would tend to defeat this particular problem. You moonbase structure is a neat idea but if its available on the moon, why not also on earth? I could see the use for a structure like this. Also, you did not mention the existing structures (which I think? would work just fine...nuclear power plant, Laster, Laser tower, etc). You also had a bunch of cool ideas for units but the additional cost does not seem necessary. I realize they would be more expensive but since Lunar units would only be fighting Lunar units the additional costs would be equalized. I like the idea of Moon Buggy and Landers but I think that GEVs would be workable on the moon. I don't think they would be traditional GEVs in the sense that they 'ride on a cushion of air' like a Hovercraft but with gravity being roughly 1/10th that of earth you could get the same effect by using downward pointing thrusters. (this would be ineffcient in earths gravity but with the 10 times multiplier of the moons gravity I think it would work well). I loved the Landers concept but this is another idea I could see working on Earth (albeit with different technology). Although, this would be more of a scearnario rule (kind of like 'rolling for reinforcements'). The rules changes to Missiles and Howitzers dont seem necessary (although I can see the fun in them). If you are firing projectiles on the moon I think you could take the environment into account and modify your ordinance to suit the circumstance (actually it might be easier for missiles and such to fire since there is virtually no humidity, wind or a lot of the other variables that modern fire control takes into account). You also mentioned lasers, overruns, spillover fire ... it would depend on what kind of feel you want your Lunar Ogre to have but it seems to me that all those thing would still apply. Well thats it. If I worded things a bit forcefully please dont take offense, I was just typing without editing :) It is a cool idea and Im just kicking ideas around! Subject New Ogre/GEV game I got my new copy of Ogre/GEV the other day. Thanks Steve! :) ----- [It's out already?!? -HJC] ------------------------------ From: "William Spencer" Subject: Lunar Ogre Regarding Walter O'Hara's () lunar rules variant: All lunar stuff should definitely be created by self-sufficient lunar factories - sending rockets to the moon would be prohibitively expensive. (Either you have LOTS of ECM and stealth, or send up LOTS of decoys to confuse the anti-air lasers.) >Railways: All railways are considered to be UNDERGROUND on Luna. Therefore, >they cannot be severed by fire combat. Trains move by the same rules as >they do in GEV. Railways must connect structures together or extend >offmap. What about collapsing the railway tunnels? A big nuke at the right spot could cut the line. (Reminds me of the old Avalon Hill STARSHIP TROOPERS...) >Space Marine INFs: Like regular INF, but can move/fight on the Lunar >surface. Cost 5 per squad (use the Regular Marine Counter) Infantry should probably be allowed to make a "jump" move, due to the low gravity - for one idea on how it should look, look at Mr. Cobb's website. >Laser Towers are allowed (encouraged) Should probably have effectively infinite range, due to the lack of atmosphere. >Missiles are another story. Every missile, with the exception of Cruise >missiles, must perform a stability check when attacking by rolling 1d6. If >the player rolls a 6, the missile flys off into the atmosphere and is lost. >This roll applies to both MSL tanks and the missiles that come with OGREs. I think this rule should be ignored....the usual space combat weapon, if you can't get a big laser, is the missile. Missile accuracy should be no concern. (Also, they can't "fly off into the atmosphere" - there IS NO atmosphere!) >Howitzer rounds are assumed to be rocket assisted, but guidance is a key >factor in a near weightless vacumn. Therefore, every Howitzer attack must >make a target acquisition roll (another 1d6) before attacking. If the >target is acquired (1-4) the attack is as normal. If the target is lost >(5,6), the attack may not be committed. Ditto, here. In fact, howitzer range should probably be _increased_ due to lack of atmospheric disturbance...on the other hand, the range of EW units probably is also increased, reducing the howitzer accuracy...er, better leave ranges as they are. Ballistic rounds would go miles and miles and miles...but are sitting ducks for point-defense weapons. >That's all I have so far... what do you think? I'd like to dwell a little >longer on Lasers on the moon, and the effects of increased radiation and >extreme low gravity. I already mentioned lasers and low gravity. Radiation? Units in this game are pretty well shielded when it comes to that. On the other hand - you might want to extend your "target acquisition rules" to include _all_ units, and claim that this is the effect of increased solar radiation - sunspots - cosmic rays - etc. >Would Overruns still be possible? What about spillover fire in a vacumn? Since an overrun is combat at point-blank range, they are still entirely possible. Spillover fire: according to the rulebook, most units fire multiple warhead independently-targeted submunitions (GURPS: Vehicles calls it "SATNUC"), so the spillover is due to all the little submunitions which missed the main target, but still hit the general area. And nukes will still have a blast radius in vacuum (just mostly radiation, no atmospheric impact) - so, yes, spillover fire will remain. ----- [Lasers are limited to not targetting things over the horizon. (Unless you use smoke and mirrors ;-) Luna has a shorter horizon than Earth does. -HJC] ----- From: Todd Zircher Subject: Lunar Ogre > [Uh, three day trip to moon. > Earth spins under the spacecraft on the way. > Earth based lasers deep in enemy held lands take careful aim... > -HJC] Good point. Using large reflectors they could get to the moon faster by riding a beam of light, but the enemy could deflect the flight path. :-) -- TAZ ------------------------------ From: jkajpust@concentric.net Subject: OGRE Miniatures > From: "my4meowz" > Any way to have updates on the release of new Ogre minis (not the > Macrotures) posted on a bi-weekly basis or something? I hate to sound like sour grapes, but bi-decadely would be more than enough -- it would just say "still looking, nobody good enough, and don't violate our copyright (which we don't put to use) by making some on your own.... Jim Kajpust - Personal Responsibility - Personal Freedoms Michigan - http://www.concentric.net/~jkajpust ------------------------------ From: SciGuyFla@aol.com Subject: OGREs as three letter words Somewhere I have seen a three letter designation for the Ogres, either in the Ogre fiction there has been or BOLO or somewhere I cannot recall. I like this because it gives some flavor and personality to the Ogre. (Just what we need, a "perky" Ogre...) For example, unit DVD could be called David, unit KNT could be Kent, and unit BOB would be...well, you get the idea. (My personal favorite that I like to use is STG- he's known by his troops as St. George.) With the cost of Ogres being so high, I could see them being given individual names, since they would never be that numerous (thankfully, chimes in the infantry). It would make the units more identifiable to various commanders. ("Sir, INTEL reports Jason has been spotted entering our sector," sounds like it could add more drama and differing responses by commanders than "There's an Ogre Mk III entering our zone.") Come to think of it, no matter what you call it, it is still gonna give the groundpounders a case of the screamin' heebie-jeebies... ----- [You'll just love to send me out on wild reference hunts to test my backup RAMs, right? "The Compleat Bolo", Y1990, page 313. -Hull style 'H', power unit 'J', main armament code 'C'] Henry J. Cobb ogre@sjgames.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 2000, by Steve Jackson Games.