============ The Ogre Digest, Apr 16th (Last: Apr 11th) ============= ===== [sjgames-illuminator] Ogre Contest Closes From: webmaster@sjgames.com ===== Taiwan vs. China From: Shadowjack ===== revised coastline maps From: "Darren Breland" ===== wheeled vehicles From: "Darren Breland" ===== Darren Breland's big game From: "Darren Breland" ===== Flunky's page From: Servitor@aol.com ===== OGRE Brains Possible? From: "Herb Diehr" ===== OGRE Battlefields From: "Grogan, Paul" ============================== From: webmaster@sjgames.com Subject: [sjgames-illuminator] Ogre Contest Closes SJ Games Daily Illuminator ( http://www.sjgames.com/ill/ ) April 16, 2001: Ogre Contest Closes We got 32 entries in the Wounds Unlimited (http://www.woundsunlimited.com) scenario contest. Judging is already underway. Thanks to everyone who entered! ============================== From: Shadowjack Subject: Taiwan vs. China "Taiwan officials hope standoff helps U.S. see their view on weapons" from the San Jose Mercury News, 12 April 2001. http://www0.mercurycenter.com/premium/world/docs/taiwan12.htm Taiwan wants to buy some new weapons from the U.S., citing Chinese build-ups on the coast. Their wish list includes Aegis radar, Apache attack choppers, the PAC-3 Patriot anti-missile system, and submarines. Plus a note on 21st century warfare: "China, which has the world's largest population and its largest army, is believed to have taken the lessons of the 1991 Persian Gulf War and the air war over Kosovo to heart. Today, strategists in Taiwan believe, the People's Liberation Army would favor a rapid burst of ballistic missile attacks to destroy the command, control and communications infrastructure of Taiwan's military before any U.S. troops could come to the island's defense. Similar missile attacks could also demolish Taiwanese airfields before Taiwan's F-16 or Mirage fighter jets could get airborne." -- William Spencer williamspencer@hotmail.com Shadowjack shadowjack@subdimension.com ===== [The most interesting articles about China lately have been about their cyberwarfare capabilities. They are seeking the means to bring down the US networks at a critical moment to foil any response to their military attacks. When did Steve first mention the Chinese cyberattack through the Philippines against the Nihon? (I think it was a long time before GURPS Ogre.) -HJC] ============================== From: "Darren Breland" Subject: revised coastline maps >>Nick Elsden >>I used the following 'Salt Marsh' terrain specifically for a scenario >>derived from an incident in the 1973 Arab-Israeli war, based on information Very cool.. I like the "no bounce" GEV rule... might add that one to Marshes just to see how it plays out. ================================================== From: "Darren Breland" Subject: wheeled vehicles >White Rat >You're absolutely right about the performance of wheeled APCs in many >environments. .... >In my mind, the real prohibition against wheeled vehicles in OGRE is that >the weapons being used are meant to defeat BPC...And that even a near miss >from such a weapon is going to shred even 'solid' tires. I disagree... most shells designed to penetrate BPC will probabally be "shaped" hi-velocity penetrators that either do not explode or us a shaped charge that punches a hole through the armor. These sort of shells don't have a blast like an HE round. In a previouse article I posted Civilian Wheels -Vs- Military wheels. The wheeled mode of transport, even with the advent of viable hover craft, will doubtfully be totally removed from the military. It is simply a too versatile mode of transportation. GEV's are somewhat limited to even, flat, terrain, while even a modern wheeled vehicle can go just about anywhere. I would think that the "wheels" of future MILITARY vehicles will be made out of some combination of synthetic-rubber and "spun" or woven BPC with a hard core that doesn't require inflation to move. The HUMVEE has tires similar except they are a combo of Kevlar, Steel, and rubber and can "run-flat". Besides, I think these vehicles would be limited to transport and "low-intensity" conflicts. I don't think they would stand much of a chance vs an Ogre or mainline armor and would never have a rated defense greater than 2. >I like the Marsh terrain rules a _LOT_. One of my issues with swamp has >always been that most folks 'view' it as marsh. Now we have, it seems, >'swamp with trees' (Think cypress swamp or mangrove) which sucks down >tanks and smashes up GEVs, and 'marsh without trees (rice paddies, >etc)'which sucks down tanks but is perfect GEV territory. Good show! Thanks! It works pretty good with my group. >...LAV has a road speed of 100 kph, that's move 5. The LAV gets move 3/2 >but no road bonus, instead it pays one MP to travel along road, two per >clear or city hex and three MPs per woods or swamp hex. Swamp causes a >disrupt check as usual. The fun part is that it is listed as being >amphibious! Take a full turn's movement to enter or leave a water hex. >-HJC] I like it! But I dont think I would give it the "bounce" move, just a full 4H/8" move. Better check your math on the move. In minis, 1" move represents 7.5MPH... 100KPH=60MPH 60/7.5" = 8" or 4 hexes. FYI. ===== [Yeah, but our current APCs ain't nuclear powered either. ;-) I like a split move because it amplifies the difference between on and off road movement. Also, I'd cap wheeled defense at D1, because nobody's going to put state of the art defensive weapons and electronics on a cheap chassy. -HJC] ============================== From: "Darren Breland" Subject: Darren Breland's big game >From: White Rat >Okay. I'm drooling on my keyboard. Can you tell us just how MUCH of your opponent's armor and infantry was remaining? Me: 2 MKIII's totally diabled, 1 -No MB, 4" Move, 2SB, 8 APs left Him: "I think"... 3 Mhz, 3 MSL, 1 LTNK, 6 squads Inf., 1 GEV-PC left He started with a LOT more. >From: Michael Powers >Probably part of the reason the really big game went so well is that >you didn't have the same armor-to-infantry balance as by-the-book >Ogre matchups. Most of those float around a 60-40 or 50-50 >armor-to-infantry balance, if converted into points; I believe that >SJ actually mentions this somewhere, that they specified infantry >amounts precisely because otherwise the defender just took all GEV or >all HVY (or all HWZ!) and the game was over in a couple of turns. I agree, it makes for some "cheesy" tactics if you don't restrict unit types in certain scenarios. If you add up the point of the original Ogre game... 1 Mk III -vs- 20 points of Inf attack strength and 12 points of armor. Minis rules conversion: 1 point of armor = 6 points, 1 AS Inf = 2 points.. totals 6x12 armor + 2 x 20 inf = 112 points. Each MkIII is 100 points. 72-40 point division of 112 points vs 100 point Ogre. A fair match for attack-defend. Most of the original scenarios followed that point division closely. However, those were ATTACK-DEFEND scenarios. My scenario was a MEETING ENGAGEMENT. If there were infantry already holding terrain then I think it would have made a difference, but this was armor meeting in the field, he started from one end of the board and I started from the other. All of his infantry were mechanized and neither side had a "defender's" advantage so I gave him more armor to balance it out. >One scenario I'd like to see was mentioned earlier on the list; it >was the 'Mark III on Defense vs. Two Mark IIIs Attacking' setup. >This one had the Basic selection of units plus a Mark III on the >defender side, and two Mark IIIs as attackers. Has anyone tried this >out? (I'd do it myself, but around here interest in gaming begins >and ends with Pokemon.) Very kewl scenario... I will run it by my group and see what they think. Will have some feedback in a few weeks. (LOL! Hey, how about Pikachu vs a MkV? or better yet Pikathulu...) ===== [Ogres are shielded against lightning, as they're usually the tallest metallic thing around. And what is minimum damage from cluster nuclear bombardment? -HJC] ============================== From: Servitor@aol.com Subject: Flunky's page I've done some updating at my website. I mention it here 'cause I know a lot of people on the digest have bookmarked it. http://members.aol.com/servitor/Ogreindex/ogrindex.htm Henry, a few technical questions if I may. I submitted my website nearly two months ago to various search engines like Yahoo, Alta Vista, etc. But so far, you are the only one to have listed me (in the DMOZ). I suspect I messed things up with a meta tag for "robots" that said "index", but my index page is actually "ogrindex". Do you believe this could have caused the various search engine 'bots to uhm, "bounce"? If so, will omitting the tag and resubmitting the site solve the problem? How soon can I resubmit? (Many of the sites warned not to resubmit, but surely they didn't mean that concerning an error, right?) best, John Hurtt (Servitor@aol.com) ===== [Delete all meta tags and submit again. They only annoy robots and slowdown page loading. The best way to get to the top of a web search is with a directory listing boost. -HJC] ============================== From: "Herb Diehr" Subject: OGRE Brains Possible? Russians create 'artificial human brain' Russian scientists claim to have developed the first artificial brain with the same intellectual potential as a human. The neuro-computer is based on the workings of the human brain cell and can out perform previous brain models. It uses pioneering findings in neurophysiology and neuromorphology to produce a truly thinking machine, scientist Vitaly Valtsev has told the Interfax news agency. He has warned of the potential of the scientific breakthrough, saying the new brain could turn into a Frankenstein monster if mistreated. The scientist said: "This machine needs to be trained like a newborn child. It is extremely important for us to make it a friend, not a criminal or an enemy." Mr Valtsev, a member of the International Academy of Information Science, says the Russians have succeeded where others have failed because they used a model of the neurons in the brain in building the computer. He says earlier attempts to create advanced artificial intelligence have failed because scientists tried to create a machine using a model of the neuron taken from the spinal cord developed back in the 1940s. ===== [Makes me wonder who'd score higher on the Turning Test, Putin or Gore. -HJC] ============================== From: "Grogan, Paul" Subject: OGRE Battlefields > I've written to Steve with a suggested fixes for a lot of things in >Battlefields. -HJC] I'd love to see what you have so I can add my own comments - Paul ===== [Here are my own very sorry notes about OGRE Battlefields. It is with great sorrow and regret that I heard that Steve had been hurt by my comments and I humbly apologize to the editor of this supplement for any implication I may have made that it was in any way rushed to market. Perhaps with all of your assistance we can arrive at a less painful document that is worthy of some slight review. Unauthorized Battlefields Repair Kit. By Henry J. Cobb The long awaited Battlefields supplement for GEV is out, and there's only a few parts that need some clarification and expansion. 3.03 Militia Movement. Militia may not enter water hexes, but they cross streams without penalty. 3.031 Militia on Roads. Forget this section ever appeared. The gameplay reason is that disposable units should only touch the dice at the moment of disposal and the explanation given is that experienced militia are too wary to group up in the open and green recruits are too disorganized to take advantage of any extra mobility. 3.05 Militia Defense. As unarmored targets, each Militia counter takes full, not spillover effect by any non-overrun attack into its hex. Single militia platoon counters are not affected by D results once they have been reduced to unready status, but multi-platoon counters loose one platoon from D results in addition to being reduced to unready status. 4.013 Bridging. A player may take one free pre-scenario stream bridge per squad of Engineers in his force. 4.017 Mine detection. Anytime an unmounted Engineer squad is about to enter an mined hex, the number of mines in the hex is identified and the squad may either abort its movement for the turn or enter the hex and suffer a normal mine attack. 4.018 Mine clearing. Engineers, but not other units, may fire on mine hexes to attempt to clear the mines. Each mine has a defense of one and is protected by terrain as if it was an infantry squad. Engineers may combine fire against mines and are doubled against mines in their own hex. An X result clears one mine and mines are not affected by spillover fire. 4.019 Marine Engineers. Marine engineer squads have the special abilities of engineers and the movement (and defense) abilities of marines. Only marine engineers may detect or clear mines in water. Marine engineers are sufficiently rare that their availability and other special abilities will be specified by scenario. 4.023 Unit defense in revetments. A Mark-I Ogre in a large revetment defends as if was in a city hex and does not get any defense bonus above that. Victory points for new units. The point value for Militia is one point per platoon and the point value for marine engineers is six points per squad. Breakthrough scenario. Map S-2. Ogre scenario. The Mark-III ogre only receives the bonus when it exits from the north edge. RAID scenario. The defender may draw reinforcement counters as long as he has drawn fewer armor units worth than his schedule allows. For example, in the basic scenario if the first counter drawn was a light tank then the defender could draw again and if he got a superheavy tank then his total would be two and one half armor units and he would stop drawing counters for the first turn and wouldn't draw any on the second turn, but if he drew another light tank on the third turn he would be caught up and could draw again on the forth turn. Disputed Crossing. The rapids effect applies for all water hexes on the map and the attacker may not take any militia. The nine marines in the attackers force are actually marine engineers and they may build a temporary ford by performing nine squad turns of work surfaced in a water hex. Fords under construction or completed have a defense of three and take full rather than spillover effect from any attack into their hex and are blown away by an X result (treat any units on the ford as having just entered the hex for terrain purposes when the ford is lost.) Once completed a ford effects movement as a city hex but is treated as clear terrain for combat. Stuck units become unstuck when a ford is completed in their hex. Ogre variant of the Disputed Crossing scenario. Add a Mark IV Ogre to the attacking side and Mark III to the defending side. The defender also gets twelve mines he may secretly place in any hexes north of the river. The attacker cannot count ogre or superheavy AP guns for victory purposes and may only count the attack strength of one ogre missile per surviving missile rack (if the Mark IV is across) also the attacker may only count half of his crossed attack strength for victory from ogre or infantry weapons. ===== Henry J. Cobb ogre@sjgames.com Archives at http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 2001, by Steve Jackson Games.