====== The Ogre Digest, December 21st (Last: December 20th) ======== ===== Mk III vs III-B From: AvaheilDotter@aol.com ===== Light Ogre Raider From: "Daniel Gallant" From: AvaheilDotter@aol.com ===== Protecting MSLs from GEVs From: "Powers, Michael T1" ===== Snap together maps From: Darren Breland ===== HVY Weapons INF From: Darren Breland ===== Ogre Camo Patterns From: Darren Breland ===== Light Support Weapon For Battlesuit From: Sumnerd1234@cs.com ============================== From: AvaheilDotter@aol.com Subject: Mk III vs III-B << might give the advantage to the III and V as production units over the III-B. At least as far as combat and cost effectiveness go. As game units the III-B seems to get the advantage. >> Only in that VP wise, the III-B is less than the V. Given that the III-B is just as easy to immobilize as the III, I suspect it is not that powerful compared to the V. And, logistics problems could be a valid excuse. The specs on the T-34/85 vs the Panther would seem to favor the Panther, until real world experience comes into play... ============================== From: "Daniel Gallant" Subject: Light Ogre Raider > This is a new unit I've been experimenting with. Nasty little bugger, > great as a cheap raiding unit. > > 2 Missile Racks > 8 Internal Missiles > 1 Secondary Battery > 4 Anti Personnel Weapons > 32 Treads (M4 / 8") > Point Value = 75 > Year Introduced = 2084 > > Daniel Gallant > > ===== > > [Is there some bug in my Javascript? When I run this one it says the > load places it in 2086, unless two AP are removed. Oops, my bad. I was entering this from memory and was thinking of the two AP version, but scrapped it because it had a fractional VP value. The year should be 2086 for the four AP version, and 2084 (74.5 VP) for the two AP version. ===== From: AvaheilDotter@aol.com Subject: Light Ogre Raider IMHO, I would think 6 external missiles would be better. In my play expeience, MRs last at most 3 rounds as they are VERY hi-pri targets... ===== [Once Paul finds a "hardpoint" system that he can live with we'll be able to say "Sorry, that little bitty ogre isn't big enough to carry all those missiles". Until then replacing the racks with the six one-shot missiles and another secondary for the same price is a very good deal. If only the racks boosted missile range by one hex they'd make the rack armed Ogres a lot tougher. -HJC] ============================== From: "Powers, Michael T1" Subject: Protecting MSLs from GEVs >How do you deploy an infantry screen in front of >Missile Tanks to protect against GEV attacks? Why do the MSLs need protection? The GEVs can't attack them without being fired on at least once. Mike Powers ===== [Actually the hidden killer here is the LGEV. The LGEVs move around to the side so that quite a few of them offer a single Missile Tank on the corner a range six shot. If the Missile Tanks charge forwards only one LGEV is toasted and all the Missile Tanks die. If the Missile Tanks stand their ground the range six one is disposed of with long range fire then his buddy one hex over is overrun on the second movement phase and again the Missile Tanks only get one LGEV for the cost of two Missile Tanks. In the beginning there was the Ogre and the Ogre faced the three different kinds of armor units, except for some heretics who foolishly chose a few Howitzers. And lo the Heavy Tanks and the GEVs did prosper, producing smaller and larger variants in the Light and Superheavy Tank and the LGEV and GEV-PC, but save for the nifty MHWZ no further variants of the Missile Tank were produced for it did suck. As a partial solution, why not round out the triad of armor unit families with a Light Missile Tank at the half armor unit level? Say, Atk 2/3, D 1, M 3 as a light tank? -HJC] ============================== From: Darren Breland Subject: Snap together maps > > i would love to see snap-together maps, like some a saw a few years ago > > online (don't remember where): they come in hex-shaped plastic bits of > > different colors and you snap them together. Something with 1-3" > > snap-together hexes would be really cool. GHQ makes the "Terrain Maker" series. Same concept as GeoHex but smaller and more detailed. http://www.ghqmodels.com/M/catalog/terrain. They are much less expensive than GeoHex but you would probably have to purchase more to cover the same table area. I have never used it but it looks like a viable, and possibly less expensive alternative. -D. ========================= From: Darren Breland Subject: HVY Weapons INF > [Shockwave 3.016 and Battlefields 4.011 both say roll randomly to see >which squad is removed on a D. The Minis rules also state to roll randomly, so I guess that's the official way to do it. > I really don't like the Hvy Weapons triple mortars, but why not just >mount the mortars to represent the squads with the unfired weapons? So you >could have a stand with two mortar figures and an infantry figure to >represent two available missile attacks and a third regular infantry >squad. I had thought about that one and I just may end up doing it. I eats up a lot of figs though, but INF is cheap. :-) > Or you could fold up bits of paperclip to represent man portable >missile launchers that you can hang on the squads with missiles and remove >them when fired. -HJC] Never thought of that one. Or cut the mortar fig (very carefully) and somehow attach it to the INF figs in a manner that it easily removable. hmmmm.... Thanks! L8a, - D. ============================== From: Darren Breland Subject: Ogre Camo Patterns Although Ogre's are huge, I am of the school that "anything that big needs all the help it can get". I don't generally camo my tanks and troops because they get lost too easily on the table. Reds, blues, light greys, etc. show up much better. Ogres, on the other hand, tend not to get lost so easily so anything goes when painting them. The military generally camo's everything. I think Ogre's are no exception. What concealment cannot be achieved through electronic means would most likely be augmented with some sort of camo pattern. Now I don't believe that any camo pattern could effectively hide an Ogre. However, the idea is not hide the object, but to decrease the range that it can be effectively discerned by the naked eye. Camo on large objects also has the advantage of providing depth and direction deception, making visual targeting more difficult. On that note, does anyone have any good ideas for Ogre camo? I have camouflaged my Mk IIIB and am very happy with the results. I chose a 2 color pattern (but in hindsight, I think the rest will be 3) that met and broke in hard angles and large color swaths of dark green and black. This is very similar to the pattern seen in the Ogre Minis book and mimics the style of patterning used by navies. The US Navy during WWII had several schemes for camouflaging ships, even battleships. Again this was never meant to actually hide something that massive, but rather to prevent it's detection from a long range, and to provide deception while maneuvering. I believe that this same patterning would hold true for Ogres. I plan to adopt the Naval style camo pattern for my Ogre's from now on, but will use Army (browns and green) as opposed to Navy (blues and greys) colors. Incidentally, the US military has adopted the 3 color NATO camo scheme and is abandoning the previous 6 color schemes. See: http://www.de220.com/Camouflage/DE%20Camouflage%20&%20Paint%20Patterns.htm for some good black and white photos of WWII US Naval camo patterns. Anyone have any other ideas on Ogre camo patterns to share? L8a, -D. ===== [If I ever get a Nihon Oni, the first one gets a yellow and black tiger stripe cammo. As long as it doesn't call it's crew chief "Darling". -HJC] ============================== From: Sumnerd1234@cs.com Subject: Light Support Weapon For Battlesuit I've been on my campaign to get Battlesiut re-released and figured it was time to introduce some new material for it. So here goes. Light Support Weapon (LSW): A LSW counter represents a team-carried weapon analogous in mission to the modern M-249 Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW). It can be carried (i.e. stacked with) any armored infantryman; it adds 1 to his ECM value. Each heavy weapon can be fired once per turn (twice if the user does not move or target). It may be used by any man in an undamaged suit. Its attack strength of 12 substitutes for his own attack strength. He cannot fire both his own weapon and the LSW on the same turn. He is assumed to carry his personal weapon at his side while using the LSW. If a man is eliminated by an "X" on the CRT (or self-destructs) while carrying a heavy weapon, the weapon is also destroyed. If a man is hit for a "damaged" result while carrying a LSW, roll one die. On a role of 1, the weapon is destroyed and the man takes normal damage. On a 2 or 3 the weapon is destroyed and the man takes no damage (though if the CRT shows a "Shock" result, that still takes effect). On a 4, 5, or 6 the man takes normal damage and the weapon is unaffected and may be picked up and used by another man. Neither side may use a heavy weapon belonging to the enemy. A heavy weapon counter cannot be "dropped" (left alone) in the air. It can be dropped on the ground a picked up later by any armored man. A dropped LSW may be attacked separately, using its own ECM value of 1; an "S" result does not effect it, but any damage destroys it. ===== [What I want to see is a missile launcher with a single-warhead "SATNUC" weapon. But first we need to split armor from point defense and ECM. From Gurps Ogre the effect would be a massive shaped charge attack against a single target with a concusion wave out to a 48 yard radius. (A Main Battery attack drops 19 of these charges over the entire map.) My copy of battlesuit is packed away so I don't recall the scale or how many points wide that would be. -HJC] Henry J. Cobb ogre@sjgames.com Archives at http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 2001, by Steve Jackson Games.