============ OGREverse list, Feb 8th (Last: Feb 5th) ============= ===== Infantry and Anti-Personnel weapons From: "Mark Haynes" From: Dan Tulloh ===== Ogre Names (Old Guard) From: "Mark Haynes" From: patrick.odonnell@materna.de From: SRKOALA@aol.com ===== Ogre Tread Units (Future Ship Hull points?) From: "Duncan McEwen" ===== Fox Hunt From: "Henry J. Cobb" ------------------------------ From: "Mark Haynes" Subject: Infantry and Anti-Personnel weapons > In MY OGREverse, all armor have AP. As in the REALverse, they are rarely > shootable at the same time. (Almost every armor unit in the US inventory > carries at least the equivalent of a single barrel .50 cal machine gun.) > It's simply too difficult, even for computer assisted human gunners, to lay > into a squad of infantry and an armor unit over the horizon...and if the on > board computer could, it would be in an OGRE. > > The bigger the armor unit, the better/more the AP, so most non-OGRE units > drive around with a single attack number. I don't think new rules are > needed on this subject. > > The Superheavies have separate AP only because they have separate gunners > available to fire them independently. (Plus they needed something for the > dread "game balance" aspect.) > > Kirk This is an interesting chain of thought that my friends & I never really followed to full closure. In our OGREverse, the OGRE AP guns could be used in an Overrun attack against armor units at regular strength. (Hey, it was on the second printing cover back in `77 or `78 - that's where the idea came from). Later on this became one of the few ways an OGRE can survive the Light GEV "Balaclava" that occurred with some regularity in our games of Body Blow. We never gave any other units AP guns, just figured it was part of their inherent defense value - you know, the point defense system, flechette charges, etc. Were we to give an AP attack to all armor units, then I'd want to make an OGRE AP guns just regular OGRE weapons, same attack strength, defense & range but remove the Infantry/C.P. only limitations (and do the same for the ones on the Super Heavy too). Looking at the miniatures, the AP guns are rather big to be finding something comparable on a Heavy Tank or GEV. As for the AP guns on a Heavy Tank not being able to be used while the Main Gun is, I tend to disagree ONLY in that the way we imagined the AP guns of the lesser armor was along the automated mini-gun theme. Something pops up on the last data-pule within 1 km that's not responding to the IFF, has the masking of Infantry Suits so the CPU just 'hoses' the general area that the grunts are in and this interferes with their shooting at you until you can bring the min battery to bear. Picture a cross between the Phalanx system and the little gun used by the Millenium Falcon in "The Empire Strikes Back". Don't see why this couldn't/wouldn't work with the guns having an actual attack value and not being "figured in" on the D3 factor of the tank. Mark Haynes "God may not play dice with the universe, but I have to." ----- From: Dan Tulloh Subject: Infantry and Anti-Personnel weapons >===== Infantry and Anti-Personnel weapons > From: "Hunt, Kirk (Tucson)" > From: "Robert A. Knop Jr." > From: Servitor@aol.com Mmmm ... ok. Well, it was an off-the-wall idea to begin with. Thanks for the consideration! Dan ------------------------------ From: "Mark Haynes" Subject: Ogre Names (Old Guard) > From: "Robert A. Knop Jr." > > From: Nyrath the nearly wise > > I was wondering what other amusing Ogre names we could come up with. > > In the same vein as the ones you propose: > > I Brake for Nobody > Cruel and Unusal Punishment > Nuclear Free Zone > > -Rob I see we're not the only ones... I have a few, along a Military Rank vein: General Disorder - Mk V (wanted to do this for a VI) Major Havoc (named after a great arcade game) - Mk IV "Corporal" Punishment - Mk III There are some others, from random sources and satirical references (like the all white with blue trim Mk III with an "Intel Inside" logo on the front) Mark Haynes "God may not play dice with the universe, but I have to." ----- From: patrick.odonnell@materna.de Subject: Ogre Names (Old Guard) Ok, time to connect this thread to the humour thread. So, how about: Baby on Board If You Can Read This You Are Too Close. Over The River and Through The Woods ... Would You Like a Spanking? Twinkle Toes Party Pooper Best, Pat ----- From: SRKOALA@aol.com Subject: Ogre Names (Old Guard) Large and Angry Not Very Lean and Very Mean I'm Bigger than You Big and Bad Dread Really Quite a Lot -Stephen ----- [It's dread filled or simply dreadful? A hyperphobic OGRE? -HJC] ------------------------------ From: "Duncan McEwen" Subject: Ogre Tread Units (Future Ship Hull points?) Hey folks, Here is something for you all to consider. Ogre Recommendation I would like to propose that several of the Ogre designs have either their size rating or their tread unit totals modified. This is based on my quick and dirty analysis of size and amount of tread units. Basically I was working on an idea for new Ogre Naval Vessels (based partly on the Invasion of San Francisco scenario BTW). To this end I was trying to connect unit size to tread units (to use as hull units for ships). I also decided that tread units should all be multiples of 12. This would allow units to move at 1, 2, 3, or 4 MP with even numbers of tread units. I was quite surprised to discover a formula that gave the tread unit totals of many of the ogres. The formula is (size – 3) x 12 = tread units for that size class. Here is a table of the results: 1 -24 2 -12 3 0 4 12 5 24 Mark I/Pikeman (18) 6 36 Mark II (30) 7 48 Mark III Chassis (48), Ninja (40), Golem (48), Steel Oni (48) 8 60 Mark IV (56), Mark V/Huscarl (60), Steel Samurai (60), Fencer (48) 9 72 Mark VI (72), Doppelsoldner (60) 10 84 11 96 12 108 13 120 14 132 15 144 Based on this finding I would like to recommend that the Mark I (+6), Mark II (+6), Ninja (+8), and Mark IV (+4) all have minor tread unit increases. There may be some game balance reason for not having the “calculated” tread units, but it would be nice for constancy. However the Fencer and the Doppelsoldner have more serious discrepancies. In their cases I would recommend that they have their size class dropped by one step to bring them back in line with the chart. This would make the Fencer more in line with the Mark III Chassis, which would make sense given the Fencers reduced secondary batteries. The Dopplesoldner however would just be a massively oversized Mark V. The other option is that it is ruled that Paneuropean technology is inferior to Combine where design of cyber tanks is concerned. For copied units (Huscarl, Legionnaire, and Pikeman) the Combine formula is used, but for wholly Paneuropean designs, us (Size – 4) x 12 = Tread Units. It will then have to be decided what formula applies to the Israeli Golem and the Nihon Steel Series. Just some random thoughts for the Ogre World. If I ever finish my ships I will post them for you all to critic. Thank you, Duncan McEwen NA Combine Ogre Engineering Division ------------------------------ From: "Henry J. Cobb" Subject: Fox Hunt I too have been thinking what a purely naval scenario and units would look like. How did the combine maintain a naval presence without OGREs? The scenario is that the new combine carrier, the Fox, is deploying from the gulf of mexico, when it's ambushed by a Euro missile sub. The Paneurope player has one Sub: One launch rack with six cruise missiles. Launch one per turn, surfaced or submerged. (Use the Shockwave cruise missile rules please!) 2 Torpedo tubes(3/4) Each may fire once per turn, surfaced or submerged, against ships, GEVs or infantry. 2 AP(1/1) Only effective against infantry and zero defense targets. Only usable in overruns while submerged. 30 structure points(Move 3 hexes, lose one hex per ten points) The Combine player has, The Fox: 2 VLMA(3/4) Vertical Launch Missile Array, a cluster of tubes that Hypersmart missiles launch out of. This weapon has the same effect as a missile tank, but naval Hypersmart missiles can engage submerged targets at half strength. 2 UVRG(1/1) Ultra Velocity Rail Gun, the final line of defense for navy ships. It fires plastic slivers at 30 klicks a second that undergo contact fusion if they hit something solid, otherwise they quickly burn up in the air. This weapon intercepts cruise missiles on a 11+, is limited to LLOS and has no effect on submerged targets. Note that UVRGs impose a gigantic drain on a ship's batteries so even the biggest can only carry a few of these. And two vehicle ramps. (See below) The Fox has 60 structure points(Move 3 hexes, lose one hex per twenty points. The ship sinks and is crushed by water pressure when it runs out.) Two Combine destroyers, each has: 1 Naval Howitizer(6/6) The same weapon as carried by the mobile howitizer. Fires at half effect against submerged targets. 2 UVRG(1/1) 30 structure points(Move 3 hexes, lose one hex per ten points) One Combine Laser Cruiser: 1 laser(2/30) Exactly the same as a laser turret. 1 VLMA(3/4) 2 UVRG(1/1) 36 structure points(Move 3 hexes, lose one hex per twelve points) In addition the combine has 6 LGEVs, 3 Hovertrucks, 4 GEV-PCs, 4 Assault GEVs, 12 squads of Marines, 3 squads of Marine Engineers and 3 heavy weapon squads (non-Marine, find something to stand on). Three of the LGEVs are deployed on the map, the rest of these units are onboard the Fox at the start of the game. Manned ships take damage as buildings, but every time they are damaged to one third of total damage, roll a 1-1 attack on each "system" on board. For example, if the Fox was undamaged then got hit by a cruise missile and took 20 points of damage then it's speed would drop to 2 hexes per turn and roll one die for each weapon or vehicle ramp. On a 5 or 6 the system is destroyed and on a 3 or a 4 the system is disrupted and unusable for a turn. At forty points of damage, speed would drop to one hex and roll again a 1-1 attack on the surviving systems. Vehicles, but not infantry, on board the Fox roll at the same time as the builtin features and the Fox takes an additional point of damage for each GEV that is destroyed inside. Up to three squads of infantry can deploy on top of the Fox, just like a great big tank. (The other Combine ships can hold two squads each). Each vehicle ramp can load or unload a number of GEVs each turn, but each GEV after the first each movement phase pays a cost of two MPs per GEV that's already been on the ramp this movement phase. Infantry can freely move on or off the ship at no penalty. Using the ramp breaks the road bonus for moving on water. The stats for the Assault GEV are: Atk: 1/2, D2, M3/2 In addition it has two weapon bays, and may use one charge per turn. Each bay carry either a single shot hypersmart missile pack(3/4, half effect against submerged targets) or a single depth charge. The depth charge can be dropped at any point in the Assault GEV's movement and conducts a six point attack (not halved) against a submerged target as the Assault GEV leaves the target hex. Assault GEVs, Heavy Weapon squads and Engineers can reload by spending a full turn inside the Fox (without firing or moving). The other ships aren't carrying the right missiles or equipment. The sub can surface or submerge once per turn during its movement, but should find little advantage to surfacing. Combat between surface and submerged units in the same hex is conducted as if they were at one hex range and is not an overrun, but surface units suffer spillover effects from attacks against submerged targets in their hex fired by units in other hexes. The Scenario: Place the Fox somewhere in the middle of the Altanic Ocean. Then place the two destroyers, the cruiser and three of the LGEVs anywhere within three hexes of the Fox. All other Combine units are inside the Fox. The Paneurope player places his sub fourteen or more hexes from the nearest Combine unit and moves first. Due to surprise, none of the Combine infantry are ready. Roll a single die to ready 1-6 squads at the start of each of the Combine player's turns (Combine player's choice from his available types). Also on the first turn double all ramp penalties on the Fox. (No effect on the first GEV off each ramp each movement phase, but the second pays four hexes just to leave the ship.) Also, none of the Heavy Weapon squads, Engineers or Assault GEVs are armed with their one-shot weapons. (A squad could be readied and armed on the first turn and then deployed to the top of the ship or depart on a GEV-PC on the second.) The Combine wins if the Fox and one other ship survives. If only the Fox survives the game is a draw. The Paneurope player wins if the Fox sinks. Lemme know if this is balanced please. ;) Henry J. Cobb ogre@sjgames.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 2001, by Steve Jackson Games.