============ OGREverse list, Jan 17th (Last: Jan 12th) ============= ===== Ogre Humor? From: "Andrew Walters" From: patrick.odonnell@materna.de From: ewmarkle2@webtv.net (Ed Markle) ===== OGRE motivation From: "Alan and Carmel Brain" ===== Boxed Sets From: Kevin Walker From: largecardriver5@webtv.net (e.w.markle) ===== Monster Counters From: Servitor@aol.com ===== What the OGREverse really needs... From: "Walter O'Hara" ===== Now Shipping! From: sjgames-illuminator-owner@egroups.com ===== BATTLEFIELDS From: Steve Jackson ------------------------------ From: "Andrew Walters" Subject: Ogre Humor? Humor is a psychological defense mechanism in humans, and I believe the Ogres would need it as well. For example: Guy spends all morning installing carpet in some woman's house. At the end of the day he reaches into his pocket for his cigarettes, there not there. He notices a lump under the carpet... oh, no. Doesn't want to pull it all up, so he grabs a near-by two-by-four and tamps it flat. He figures no one will notice. Walks out to his truck to leave, opens the door, and finds the cigarettes on the seat. Then he hears the woman behind him, "Have you seen my parakeet?" Human brain, sees the cigarettes and is suddenly searching for a new explanation, when chance offers the parakeet. For some reason we don't evaluate the probability of a parakeet getting trapped under carpet during the laying, but the woman's soon-to-come emotional pain and the awkwardness of his explanation cause us distress. I don't have a specific reference, but I once heard that European soldiers encountered a stone-age tribe at one point in Africa or Asia, and in the course of normal diplomacy demonstrated their marvelous muskets. On seeing the head of an animal simply disappear, all the men of the tribe fell out laughing. A computer would pop-up an error message, essentially making it someone else's problem. People can't do this, and neither can Ogres. They have no one to escalate to. One would suspect that the early Ogres, which could learn but which were not self-aware, would discount the horrible as mere facts, the nonsensical as irrelevant. In seeking success through greater adaptability, however, the neural nets become more flexible, and *stop* discounting something just because its never been important before. They were designed, intentionally or not, to consider disobeying orders, sacrificing themselves or human units, etc, in order to achieve some set of ordered priorities. They need some way to deal with analysis that concludes with several imperatives being incompatible. And, considering what Ogres spend all their time thinking about, the thought "I think, therefore I am" was probably followed two milliseconds later by, "I'm going to cease operating someday." This is also very stressful, look at all the effort humans have put into dealing with this stress. GURPS Egypt is a great place to start researching this. I understand that soldiers, firefighters, and emergency medical people have all developed rather gruesome humor to deal with the death and injury they have to face continually. Ogres wouldn't value human life or limb "emotionally", so I expect their humor would center on conflicting priorities and the end of their existence rather than injury to humans or social awkwardness. ------------------------------ "Golem, this is Mastiff. Please provide consultation on the following mission priorities I have just received from commnad: 1) Defend power plant and other structures in grid location 1329 2) Destroy enemy troops dug in in grid location 1329 3) Defend howitzers located in grid location 0722 4) Destroy bridge in 2004 after 4th and 5th platoons withdraw across it I estimate enemy arrival at 0722 and 2004 within 0.5 minutes of each other. ------------------------------ Colossus to Command: I have reviewed my recent orders and run several simulations of my attack against the divisional Howitzer battery. In addition to reducing the enemy's fire capacity in this sector at the cost of only one Mark III Ogre, I find the following benefits: 1) Personnel in our cybertank repair facilities will gain hundreds of hours of valuable experience. 2) Personnel in the enemy's artillery unit will be distracted by dozens of hours of repairs. 3) Enemy commanders will be lulled into a sense of security . 4) You will have an additional four hours to develop a new plan. 5) I will have many CPU-hours to confirm Wile's proof of Fermat's Last Theorem without any distracting sensor input or communications. ------------------------------ Logical conundrums, of course, would always work. "Gruff, this is Smaug, request confirmation of my analysis." "Acknowledged. Transmit." "I observed two enemy troops in Engineer suits enter residential structure 3400 meters my front 7.8 minutes ago." 0.16 minutes ago I observed three troops in Engineer suits exit the structure. My human behavior algorithm suggests that they reproduced. My Engineering algorithm suggests a measurement error. I have decided to accept the conclusion of my math algorithms, which state that if one more trooper enters the building, it will then be empty. ------------------------------ Of course, the arm wrestling thing shows us that another kind of humor appeals to Ogres - discomfiting humans, or bullying. This would be really easy for them. "Sergeant Coombs, this is Gameron. I estimate the enemy force will arrive at your location in 0.2 minutes. By the way, I'm getting your suit's IR signature loud and clear, but I'm not getting your IFF. Is it working properly?" "Corporal Hillman, this is Salamander. To conserve ammunition I will begin your requested fire support mission when the enemy has closed on your position. I will allow a three meter margin for error." "Lieutenant Travers, I have considered your request for assistance. I cannot acquire the specific enemy troops that have you pinned down, but I have calculated that if I simply rubble your half of the town I can eliminate the enemy without causing more losses to your platton that you would take if I waited to close the range." One would assume that Ogres would learn pretty quickly the dangers of the human panic reaction, and would save this stuff for non-combat situations. Andrew ----- From: patrick.odonnell@materna.de Subject: Ogre Humor? > From: "William Spencer" > Do Ogres tell jokes? (8~}) AHH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA -- HAHAHHA ha ha he -- he he ... :-) Of course they do, at least the *Self-Aware* among them. The only question is do they do *Surrealistic* or does it stay on the dark and foreboding -*gallows humor*- side of things? In other words ... would it be: A) ["HLV-0073 to TMX-6052: Posit. Hypothetical situation: I recently rolled into a repair facility where a sign was posted that stated *O'Reily's Repair Battalion -We repair better than new - Guaranteed Any time Any where.*- so I ordered a lube and alignment in the Renaissance."] (My Apologies to James Wright :-) Or B) ["HLV-0087 to TMX-6143: Query. Real-time: did any other units in the vicinity just see that one jerk and dance a split second before the fireball? I express amusement at myself."] Best, Pat ----- From: ewmarkle2@webtv.net (Ed Markle) Subject: Ogre Humor? Sure they dream of electric sheep, for a nanosecond every hour or two. TJ (Tango Julliet) my MkV, dreams about rubbing fenders with 'Lulu Belle', that hot little Alamo superheavy the Tiger Brigade is getting. If her crew would just hit the chow line. The things he could teach her. ----- [Uh Steve, Any chance of your publishing "101 Totally Tasteless Cybernetic Jokes"? -HJC] ------------------------------ From: "Alan and Carmel Brain" Subject: OGRE motivation > This suggests an unusual style of post-War role-playing campaign: a > wandering cybernetic night-club performer...(Or a biphase-carbide travelling > bard? Do Ogres sing, too? I think I need to get more sleep...) I have another question: Why do Ogres fight? The reason I ask is that I'd like to start up a GURPS Ogre campaign, with the majority of the players as Ogres. And I'd like to get some ideas for motivation. Why doesn't a sensible Ogre just go "Over The Hill?" Is there the equivalent of an "NKVD Barrage Company" behind them to encourage them? Why does that Mk III heroically infiltrate past the main batle line, then do a "charge of the light brigade" against a light batallion guarding a command post in the basic Ogre scenario? It's a suicide mission! Of course I don't actually HAVE a copy of GURPS Ogre... One thing I was thinking of: side-track the players into thinking it's a standard FRP game. One with rather restrictive rules. You are a level III fighter. You go to the Wizard's Castle, and he gives you a pair of Magic Spears. You also have a Longsword, with a long reach, but only one attack per round, and a shortsword, with a lesser reach, but 4 attacks. You have spiked armour, so the rats that attempt to swarm you can get hit, and you can always stomp any of the Goblins etc that are swarming around you. As you take hits, your number of attacks, and movement rate will slow down. Beware the Elvish Archer - who has a quiver full of Magic Arrows, fires up to 4 times a turn (with each arrow being as deadly as one of your magic spears) and Fences with a shortsword at close range (2 attacks), and has many, many hit points! Worse still is the Level V fighter... Your object is to get the treasure... Of course when they find out that the "game" is just an illusion, that's where the fun begins. Just a thought at 1.49 am ------------------------------ From: Kevin Walker Subject: Boxed Sets > From: "Alan and Carmel Brain" > >> >> Underneath the Xmas tree this year was a box of DELUXE OGRE, much to my >> delight. What a WONDERFUL job > > I had the same thing, from a visitor from the US. Thanks, Kevin! Hey! I resemble that remark. Glad you like them mate. Maybe I'll be back down under by the time the Mk IVs make it into official circulation. ;-) > It spurred me to setting about finding all of the various blister packs > I've had lying around unpainted for yonks. Plus all the minis that have > been in white basecoat, some for years. Same here. I took stock of my OGRE figures waiting in the painting queue and all I can say is I'm going to busy for a while. >> Can you purchase more individual figures (or group blisters of same) > > I'd like much the same. Thanks goodness Steve mentioned that we will be able to do so. I'm looking forward to seeing if the Combine SuprHvy and MobHwz and the OGRE Mk IV look anything like the ones that were originally sculpted years back. Thanks again SJG. I'll never get all the figures painted. ;-) Kevin Walker Horizon Concepts, Inc. Macintosh / Windows Development sage@bresnanlink.net ----- From: largecardriver5@webtv.net (e.w.markle) Subject: Boxed Sets OK, soon I can round out some units with blisters from W23. Will I ever get to buy a few Ogre MkI's or MkII's? Vulcans etc. etc.? I don't mind the idea of the support vehicles but....the game is OGRE isn't it? Shoot first. If there's any debris, you can sort it later. ------------------------------ From: Servitor@aol.com Subject: Monster Counters > What are the chances of one of the guys with all the cool tools on his > PC createing a few counters? > > Specifically... Godzilla, Mothra etc. Uhm, I was so busy thinking of the miniature version, it just never occured to me. What angle should godzilla be shown at? Side view? Top view? > Now that I have the Ogre and supplements on hand, I'd like to trash Hmm. Still have the original OGRE Macrotures set. If anyone knows of a decently priced Godzilla model in the two and a half foot range... best, flunky (Servitor@aol.com) ------------------------------ From: "Walter O'Hara" Subject: What the OGREverse really needs... First of all, thanks for the many replies concerning OGRE minis, Steve. I've got the OGRE jones going now, and have painted up my heavies and infantry units. BTW, a very nice supplement for the OGRE style infantry is the Ground Zero stuff. There's one group, I think the Israeli powered infantry or something like that, that's almost exactly the right size (and comes packaged with bases that allow 1-4 figures on them... not exactly right for OGRE but it's flexible). Question: Will SJG ever consider publishing some OGREverse fiction? I'm not an industry expert by any stretch but I do spend a lot of time in bookstores... and a casual perusal of the SF section shows entire shelves filled with Game Universe fiction (AD&D, Warhammer, Magic the Gathering, Shadowrun, now even computer games!). It can't hurt be hurting a company's sales to have a publishing sideline.. V/R, Walt ----- [The OGRE Book has several short stories. I'd say wait and see how it sells. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: sjgames-illuminator-owner@egroups.com Subject: Now Shipping! SJ Games Daily Illuminator ( http://www.sjgames.com/ill/ ) January 17, 2001: Now Shipping! -------------------------------------------------------------- Five new products are shipping this week: Combine Set 1 - Ogre Mk V ( http://www.sjgames.com/minis/ogre/combineset1/ ) (for Ogre Miniatures) The mighty Mark V terrorized the battlefields of the Last War . . . on both sides. It was introduced by the Combine, but Paneurope fielded its own Mark Vs built from captured templates. The Mark V was the biggest cybertank to see action in any numbers. It has the intelligence of a genius, the cold savagery of a shark, and the firepower of an armor battalion. This set contains a complete Ogre Mark V; a full "repair kit" - an extra tower and a full extra set of guns - in case of battle damage; a "swimming tower" to represent the Ogre when it's underwater; and a record card. Stock #10-2101, ISBN 1-55634-465-1. $19.95. Combine Set 3 - Heavy Armor Company ( http://www.sjgames.com/minis/ogre/combineset3/ ) (for Ogre Miniatures) The big tanks that rolled across Europe with the Ogres: two Combine heavy armor squadrons, eight units in all. Each squadron is made up of the squadron leader's "Alamo" superheavy tank (a brand new unit, never before available) and three "Ranger" heavy tanks. The set is packed in a reusable plastic case. Each heavy armor squadron is worth 30 points in Ogre Miniatures ( http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/miniatures/ ): one superheavy at 12 points, and three heavies at 6 each. The two squadrons in this box boost your army's value by 60 points. Stock #10-2103, ISBN 1-55634-467-8. $19.95 GURPS High-Tech ( http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/high-tech/ ) GURPS High-Tech is a sourcebook for the technology that extends man's mind and hands. On the battlefields of 14th-century Europe or in the lonely alleys of 20th-century America, adventurers need the best equipment. Whether the problem is navigating the trackless seas or stopping the monster cold in his tracks, GURPS High-Tech has the gadget for the job. This book details the period from the ascendance of gunpowder (Tech Level 4) through the modern era (Tech Level 7). 128 pages. Stock #6018, ISBN 1-55634-358-2. $20.95 The Ogre Book ( http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/products/ogrebook/ ) The best Ogre articles from Space Gamer and Pyramid (and some completely new stuff, too!) are collected in this new edition of The Ogre Book ( http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/products/ogrebook/ ). 128 pages of fiction, variant rules, new units and scenarios, cartoons, and predictions about real future warfare . . . plus introductory material and a brand-new Ogre story by Steve Jackson. This is a must for all Ogre fans. 128 pages. Stock #3202, ISBN 1-55634-461-9. $19.95. Ogre Battlefields ( http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/products/battlefields/ ) For use with Ogre/G.E.V., Battlefields contains four new "geomorphic" maps designed to link with the G.E.V. and Shockwave ( http://www.sjgames.com//ogre/products/shockwave/ ) maps. Now your Ogre games can be bigger than ever . . . combining these maps with the G.E.V. and Shockwave ( http://www.sjgames.com//ogre/products/shockwave/ ) maps lets you build hundreds of different large-sized map layouts . . . up to 2 feet by 3 feet in size! Battlefields also has eight new scenarios - two for each map - and a sheet of counters. New rules include cheap cannon-fodder Militia, Engineers to build bridges, and Revetments to let you improve a defensive position. Stock #7207, ISBN 1-55634-441-4. $14.95. -- Keith Johnson ------------------------------ From: Steve Jackson Subject: BATTLEFIELDS is out. Terry Hewitt, Paul Grogan, Henry Cobb - you have playtest copies coming. Please send a preferred mailing address to sj@io.com. Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the Secret Service case Learn Web or die - http://www.sjgames.com/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua! The heck with PGP keys; finger for Geek Code. Fnord. ------------------------------ Henry J. Cobb ogre@sjgames.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 2001, by Steve Jackson Games.