============ The Ogre Digest, Mar 13th (Last: Mar 10th) ============= ===== Infantry Modelling and "Making Change" From: "Andrew Walters" ===== New Scenario From: Sumnerd1234@cs.com ===== Battlesuit From: patrick.odonnell@materna.de ===== FYI - Converting Battletech Mechs For Use In Ogre Miniature From: Inire ===== New stuff From: Sumnerd1234@cs.com ===== Putting classic alternative units in OGRE to the test. From: Henry J. Cobb ============================== From: "Andrew Walters" Subject: Infantry Modelling and "Making Change" I don't have pictures of my infantry up yet, but let me be the first to say this: Possibly not the best idea ever. When you're looking at a stand in less than perfect light a "two" that has a casualty laying on the ground for ambiance looks like a three - all you see is the three white helmets, you can't really see that one is laying on the ground with a hole in his chest. Similarly, the little barricades and so on make it tough to see at a glance how many men are there. How are other minis players handling infantry "change"? Are people pulling figures from stands, marking casualties, or making up one and two man stands? I will have pictures up soon. Outside a game they look cool. I think a heavy black wash over the things that aren't active squades may improve their workability. Andrew ============================== From: Sumnerd1234@cs.com Subject: New Scenario Here's my latest little ditty, it's called Rising Sun. Let me know what you guys (girls?) think of it. I tried to keep it simple and balanced. Hopefully I've accomplished this. ===== [Added to the scenario page: http://www.io.com/~hcobb/gev/scenario/index.html -HJC] ============================== From: patrick.odonnell@materna.de Subject: Battlesuit > From: Sumnerd1234@cs.com > Snipers (The armor would have to have a very high ECM value). Hello? I'm a big fan of Battlesuit, as well and, I REALLY LIKE THIS. Let's talk about it for a bit. I've been doing some thinking about it and I can't seem to come up with a scenario in the Ogreverse where a sniper would come in handy. What is your vision of how one of these individuals would ply their trade? Today, it is done with guile suits and *VERY SLOW MOVEMENT. * (Or, are we talking about combat snipers and not the *spook and scoot* types?) In the Ogreverse speed is life. This concept even filters down to Battlesuit. How would a *Sniper Suit* stack up against, oh let's say, a patrolling squad of *Bounding Infantry? * Of course, against *Non-Battle-suited* infantry just one *Sniper Suit* would be all that is needed to basically make them irrelevant to the rest of the game. (Keep them pinned down and useless.) Whereas, a *Combat-Sniper Suit* would probably be more justifiable I would like to see some kind of *Spook and Scoot* scenario for Battlesuit. If for no other reason that simply 'cause of the serious KEW-el factor involved. Hang me, though, if I can think of one right off hand. (There could be an *I'll laze you blaze* scenario. But, then you could do that right now with a ranger or command suit. Oh well.) Best, Pat P.S. What would *Combat-Snipers* with no armor sprinkled among a formation of non-battle-suited infantry do for the Attack Value of that formation? Hmmmmm ... ===== [I'd imagine that a suit derived from the Ranger suit with Ninja-tech for stealthing, would do just dandy, if they could wait ahead of advancing infantry and then use Battlesuit rule 8.03 to cover their withdraw. -HJC] ============================== From: Inire Subject: FYI - Converting Battletech Mechs For Use In Ogre Miniature > From: jbolton@isd.net > I don't know what use you can make of the following > information, but feel free! > > > [Did you see the conversion rules on the > sjgames.com site? -HJC] No, where are they? I just did a seach using the SJG engine and found bubkus. Jeff "My dice hate me!" Miller ICQ# 57242517 ===== [Oh, that's useless, try this instead: http://www.google.com/search?lr=&safe=off&q=+site%3Awww.sjgames.com+ogre+battletech -HJC] ============================== From: Sumnerd1234@cs.com Subject: New stuff >> Did you see the SEV in the OGRE Book? Yeah, but I didn't really like them. I'd like for someone to try these out and let me know how they work in game play. >>Did you ever play that Pegasus computer game? Never heard of it before. Who makes it and what's the theme? >>The Hydrofoil patrol craft had missiles... -HJC] I'm trying to keep it simple. I figure only Ogres, and large naval craft (destroyers, cruisers, etc.) should have multiple weapon systems. I'm also not a big fan of the one or two shot weapons (HW infantry, OGRE Missile tanks), it's just to much record keeping for my tastes. I fire off my new scenario this week, and I've taken the liberty of reworking (and rewriting) your forward observer material. I'll send it along with the scenario. I also added a little ditty as an intro (my humble attempt at OGRE fiction. ===== [Here's my article about the SEV that I salvaged from Pyramid Magazine's slushpile. My stats about the patrol missile boat would simply factor the guns into the defense strength ans treat it like a floating missile tank. Atk 3/4, M3/2, D2. (Note that this is slower than any hovercraft on the water.) -HJC] ============================== From: Henry J. Cobb Subject: Putting classic alternative units in OGRE to the test. Now that the OGRE Book (http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/products/ogrebook/) has been reprinted, I'd like to evaluate the classic alternative units brought back to life in the articles therein, using my trusty unit cost formula. As the old saying goes, now that I've got a hammer, everything is starting to look like a thumb. I'll be using the version of my unit cost formula from the OGRE Book and in order to illuminate my calculations, I shall restate the units in OGRE Miniatures format and twiddle the values around to better suit practical limits. In addition, I've added a new value, the Silliness Factor on a scale of 0 (part of the accepted future history), 1 (if it didn't exist, it should have) up to 5 (Monty Python's flying OGREs). If you don't mind, I'll be skipping some of the sillier units. Landing Surface Effect Vehicle (LSEV) Found in BPC Subs by Martin Halbert 80mm SB gauss cannon Attack: 1 Range: 2" Defense: 2 Move: 4"/4" Movement Mode: GEV Size: 4 Points: 6 VPs Silliness: 2 Note that the listed SEV movement values in the BPC Subs article already include the road bonus for hovercraft on water and so the LSEV can move 6 hexes a turn on water. Also the LSEV would not be built totally defenseless in case it got overrun. But the original carrying capacity is way off. The LSEV should be able to carry only up to two OGRE Minis size points of land units inside, just like a big hovertruck. (I.e. a Missile Tank or two Light Tanks or up to six strength points of infantry or militia.) It carries infantry under the same rules as the Hovertruck (just more of them) and can load or unload a single armor unit per movement phase that neither unit moves. Unloaded armor units can fire on the same turn, while units inside the LSEV cannot fire at all and are destroyed with the LSEV. Surface Effect Ship (SES) Found in BPC Subs by Martin Halbert Two 100mm MB gauss cannons, Attack: 2 each Range: 4" Defense: 3 Two OGRE Missiles, Attack: 6 each Range: 10" Move: 6"/4" Movement Mode: GEV Size: 4 Points: 17 VPs Silliness: 3 As for the SES, I refuse to believe in a hovercraft with a defense value of four, because it's just too easy to get a nuke under that skirt. Also the 175mm LB Gauss Cannon is a bit much to put on a hovercraft, but according to GURPS OGRE, the OGRE Rattler missile is quite light, even with it's launch rail. The SES has two gauss cannons of the same type carried by ordinary GEVs (Attack 2, Range 4") that can be freely combined into a single 4 point attack or split into two 2 point attacks (just like a Superheavy tank), In addition it carries two one shot OGRE Missiles. All the weapons can be fired at the same time at the same or different targets. The formula for this monster goes: 2 * (4 + 6 * 1.2) + 1.1 * 2 * (4 + 6 * 1.2) + 1.1 * 6 * 0.333 * (10 + 6 * 1.2) + 1.1 * 6 * 0.333 * (10 + 6 * 1.2) + 2 * 3 * ((6 * 0.333 + 4) + 4 * 1.2) In addition, this unit gets a 7.5 percent cost overrun because it's forward observer assisted range is 15 inches with the big missiles. So the total cost is: = 22.4 + 24.64 + 37.84 + 37.84 + 64.79 = 187.51 * 1.075 = 201.57 / 12 = 16.8 VPs or almost three armor units. Without the missiles it would be fairly useless but the point value would be 22.4 + 24.64 + 2 * 3 * (4 + 4 * 1.2) = 99.84 or 8.32 VPs. This does not indicate that an OGRE Missile is worth about four VPs, but rather that the support structures and electronics and two OGRE Missiles almost doubles the cost of this unit. Heavy Missile Tank Found in Adding Fear and Loathing to GEV by Timothy C. Wiedel, Ph.D. 40mm SB gauss cannon, Attack: 1 Range: 1" Defense: 2 One Missile Rack and two OGRE Missiles, Attack: 6 Range: 10" Move: 4" Movement Mode: TNK Size: 2 Points: 6 VPs Silliness: 2 This version of the Heavy Missile Tank is interesting, because it carries two missiles but can only launch one per turn. This makes it a two-shot weapon, so square the two thirds discount for a one shot weapon to get a four ninths discount for a two shot weapon. I ignore the subtraction for not being able to immediately respond to an overrun, because it is assigned a nominal overrun only attack. But it cannot fire more than one weapon per overrun combat round and can only launch at most one missile per complete game turn. So the price tag is simply 6 * (5 / 9) * (10 + 4) + 2 * 2 * (10 * 5 / 9) = 68.88 Plus the 7.5 percent observer bonus for OGRE missiles gives 74.06 / 12 or 6.2 VPs Which is close enough to 6 points to give it the benefit of the doubt. A Heavy Missile Tank that could fire both missiles at once would be more expensive. The Silliness factor for the Heavy Missile Tank comes from expecting full performance of the OGRE missile when launched from a platform with a tiny fraction of the electronic support that a mid size OGRE can provide. The Cub Found in The Lone GEV by Michael Stackpole Hypersmart Missiles, Attack: 3 Range: 8" Defense: 2 Move: 6"/4" Movement Mode: GEV Size: 3 Points: 9 VPs Silliness: 1 Floats like a GEV (only a little slower) and stings like a Missile Tank. The cost is 3 * (8 + 6 * 1.2) + 2 * 2 * (8 + 4 * 1.2) = 96.8 / 12 = 8.07 VPs I could be talked into taking this as a low production unit with a cost of one and a half armor units or 9 VPs, but 12 VPs is really stretching it. As for deployment, I'd attach a battery of six of these to a Combine Fast Strike Battalion, but due the difficulty of keeping these hit and run experts supplied with missiles, no more than one fifth of a player's combat GEVs may be Cubs. What about combining this with the Heavy Missile Tank idea for a Super Cub? Well, that's what the SES does. As for a scenario, try advanced RAID, with 4 Cubs, 12 LGEVs and 4 GEVs in place of the ordinary 16 GEVs for the attacker. (Hint: use the Cubs to taunt the defenders out of strong positions while the LGEVs blow away towns, bridges and RR hexes.) Henry J. Cobb ogre@sjgames.com Archives at http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 2001, by Steve Jackson Games.