====== The Ogre Digest, November 10th (Last: November 8th) ======== ===== SATNUC plasma jet physics? From: David Walend ===== Ogre Missile Backblast From: David Walend ===== Heavy weapons infantry From: David Morse ===== Cash and Carry Infantry From: stephan beal ===== GEV-PC From: Dave Morse ============================== From: David Walend Subject: SATNUC plasma jet physics? Henry's suggestions about Rattler missile backblast raised an old question for me. Does anyone on the list know the physics behind SATNUC plasma jets? I've worked with plasmas in a vacuum before, and it took a stiff electric field to make them anything but an expanding, cooling blob. Granted, a SATNUC plasma jet doesn't have to last as long, but how does it get to be column-shaped to begin with? And why don't all the other submunitions vaporize in the blast? One of the things that I like about Ogre/GEV is that it's fairly hard science. BPC is woven strands of diamond crystal. The power systems are either RTGs, fission or fusion plants. The guns are electromagnetic cannon. The rounds are small homing nuclear weapons, and DU darts. The missiles are slow, but sneaky, and also nuclear armed. I'd like to learn about building the column of plasma. Anyone on the list from Los Alamos or Lawrence-Livermore? Thanks, Forrest ===== [OK, you know how some of the Hydrogen bombs are triggered by a fission detonation that has the radiation relected back to a point by a circular shield to start the fusion going? OK, how about a nuclear pipe bomb. You've got a pipe made up out of U238 or some other scrap material with a thin line of Tritium rich plastic going down the center. At one end of the pipe you set off the fission detonation and the near end of your plastic fuse goes into fusion and then the shockwave travels down the fuse and is pushed together and kept in focus by the radiation bouncing off the pipe walls so the result is a narrow jet of material so hot that it can't be anything else but plasma and stray particles. My current feel for the Rattler warhead is that it shifts over to carbon cycle near the far end of the fuse. (Behold the power of plastic!) All of the submunitions go off at exactly the same time, but about 50 yards away from each other so that the radiation doesn't have enough time to travel over and mess with the neighbors before they blow. -HJC] ============================== From: David Walend Subject: Ogre Missile Backblast From: stephan beal > i agree that missiles should always do spillover, even in overruns, though. It doesn't have to. We've got 1 KT/10 KT dial-a-nukes now. A rattler missile might have the same feature. Then all we'd have to do is explain why the Ogre would choose to pull its punches in an overrun... (But then why would an Ogre choose to fire uranium darts from its guns instead of nukes?) Forrest ===== [But the Ogre Missile does more, not less damage to the primary target in an overrun. (Personally I think the increase in attack strength is due entirely to the reduced time point defenses have to attack the missile, but it's clear that the warhead is not stepped down any.) As for the darts, well the reason that the Ogre is armored in BPC is that the stuff is VERY good at keeping out nuclear explosions. The only problem is that the darts are pure line of sight weapons. Anybody know which GURPS book has got the Scramjet stats? (now that they're not science fiction any longer...) I've been thinking of another weapon to fire from those Main Batteries, a dart with legs. -HJC] ============================== From: David Morse Subject: Heavy weapons infantry > [I do not like to restrict the players as to how they arrange their > units once they get to the battlefield. > > But I do have an alternative that should cut the cheese out of using > Heavy Weapons Infantry. > > In Gurps Ogre a volley of Missile Tank missiles weighs as much as a > squad of battlesuits, and if the Heavy Weapons teams carried smaller > missiles that worked as well then why wouldn't the Missile Tank use them? > > In Gurps you can design really nice nuclear missiles in the 30 to 50 > pound range so why not outfit one trooper with a launcher and one missile > and have the rest of his buddies in the squad carry three missiles and a > sidearm. (These are smaller, less effective missiles than the Missile Tank > kind) So the squad has enough ammo that you don't need to record it, at > the cost of some flexibility. > > The stats for this Heavy Weapons squad are Atk: 1/3 hexes, Move: 2 > hexes, Def: 1, cost: 4VPs with the restriction that their attack strength > is not doubled in overruns due to rate of fire and weapons concerns. I like their feel!! The non-doubling-overrun rule is beautiful. In Raid I'd mix in a squad or two into each infantry-3 in the front line cities. That way I can strike far, but in the case they actually D my D9 boyos, they've still only got 33% chance of getting the heavy weapon guys. Ogre is very sensitive to lucky die rolls early in the game. Mid strength one-shot weapons with superior range merely exaberate the problem. Removing the one-shotness from HW guys makes the game less fickle. > Now, once you've got these light, shorter-range missiles, why not put a > repeating launcher on a GEV platform, like: > > Missile GEV, Atk: 2/3 hexes, Move: 3/2 hexes, Def: 2, cost: 6 VPs. Good brainstorming! I like the six VP, but the beauty of the Cub is the the powerful strength 3 attack at a whopping seven hex reaction radius. Missile GEV: Atk: 3/4, Move 3-2, Def: 2, cost: 6 VPs! _ ___ |_) | | | |_) |_| | . . . After the MGEV fires, it is immediately disabled (until the start of its next turn). If its already disabled and firing because its in an overrun combat, firing again doesn't cause it to die, and its attack strength is halved normally to 1.5. The MGEV doesn't terminate Ogres the way the Cub does, because the Ogre can always run down a few with secondaries. On the other hand, they can swarm around it from all sides; the Ogre can easily kill a few, but all the others have such great move+fire that the survivors will undisable and hit the Ogre again next turn. On the THIRD hand, after a few turns, they'll all be trailing the Ogre in its aft arc. If they get greedy the Ogre'll turn on them and gets lots in secondary range at the same time. Dueling other armor, MGEV does well because it tends to get first shot. But if it completely misses the first shot, it will usually loose because its already disabled. Thus a good tactic would be to give ground until you're backed up into the city. Let the MGEV exhaust itself on you, then drive out and cream it. Against two light tanks, even with first shot, the MGEV has only got about a 22% chance of winning, since the second light tank will crush the already disabled MGEV. Its a pretty interesting Achilles heel. Howitzers fear the MGEV. Two MGEV saddle up to range 7. Howie takes its 3-1. Surviving MGEV glides in and 3-1s the howie. Even if the Howie is merely disabled, the MGEV recovers first and wins with the next 3-1 attack. Interesting. --Dave ===== [Now you're back to high powered first shot weapons. Also the full Missile Tank attack strength three isn't just launch the three missiles on deck and scoot. And I just don't see anybody aside from a ragtag bunch of renegades putting a weapon on a hovercraft that can't be used at speed. -HJC] ============================== From: stephan beal Subject: Cash and Carry Infantry > From: David Morse > Maybe somebody should write an article about how to handle infantry > better. It should look at the 4 classic GEV scenarios. For bonus points, > show how to use the (HW-Infless) GEV-PC at 6 vp. i would also be very interested in seeing this. SJ notes in The Ogre Book that one of the hallmarks of a good Ogre player is "how he handles infantry", but leaves it at that. So what does "good handling" of infantry really entail? i would be very interested in hearing both Ogre and GEV approaches. ----- stephan Generic Universal Computer Guy stephan@einsurance.de - http://www.einsurance.de Office: +49 (89)  552 92 862 Handy:  +49 (179) 211 97 67 "As death comes, despite our looking for it, so should be life." ===== [Oh sure, I tell you and you tell somebody else and soon everybody will be such great defensive players that we'll need to adjust the scenarios. In Ogre, put one squad per hex in a big cloud. If the Ogre dives in, it'll only get a few squads with AP and guns and then the infantry will bunch up to attack it. (Only stack next to the Ogre please.) The GEVs jump over the cloud to attack the Ogre then retreat back across it. Using the GEV overrun rules this works even better, but then the slow speed of infantry and the larger fronts in GEV games tends to concentrate infantry as shields for the missile units, which are the only armor units they can keep up with without the GEV-PCs. Infantry in GEV are very good when riding shotgun on light and heavy tanks, as they add two points of attack strength and a separate target when overrun. (Single light tanks without infantry don't even dent a Superheavy's treads when run over. ;-) -HJC] ============================== From: Dave Morse Subject: GEV-PC For people who feel the GEV-PC is a little weak, here's a suggestion to buff it up a hair: Let the GEV-PC move 4-3 when its carrying 1 or 0 squads of infantry. When its got 2 or 3 squads it slows down to its regular 3-2. ===== [That's lacking only one point of attack strength on the regular GEV and a single squad makes that up. (Attack strength 3 in overruns, vs a mixed range factor.) What do you think the cost of the Hovertruck should be then, given it's ability to drop two squads three hexes forward to attack and then back up to grab some more? -HJC] Henry J. Cobb ogre@sjgames.com Archives at http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 2001, by Steve Jackson Games.