====== The Ogre Digest, November 23rd (Last: November 20th) ======== ===== Missile Racks in Overruns From: "Paul Chapman" From: Servitor@aol.com From: Darren Breland ===== Ogre Miniatures release dates From: "Paul Chapman" ===== Light Artillery Drones and other stuff. From: Sumnerd1234@cs.com ===== Ogre Mk III-B-B From: Dave Morse ===== Mk I - Superheavy not using same mechanics From: Dave Morse ===== Shaped-Charge Nuclear Warheads From: "Powers, Michael T1" ============================== From: "Paul Chapman" Subject: Missile Racks in Overruns > From: Dave Morse > When Ogres with missile racks are in overruns, do they get 1 missile > launch per /round/, 1 missile launch per /player turn/, or 1 missile > launch per /full turn/? If the latter, and the Ogre is being overrun, > does it have to hold its fire on a future turn, or did it have to hold its > fire on a previous turn? One thing I love about Ogre is the numbered rules. GEV 6.133 Resolving an overrun attack. "Overrun combat is resolved in 'fire rounds.'" "Units can combine fire, or fire in succession on one target, just as in a regular attack, as long as no unit fires more than once per fire round." GEV 8.071 Missile rack rules. "Each missile rack can fire one missile per _turn_." In overrun combat, an Ogre may fire each weapon system once per fire round. Therefore, an undamaged Ogre Mk. IV can fire 3 missiles into overrun combat per fire round. Paul Chapman Miniatures Division Manager Ogre Line Editor Steve Jackson Games paul@sjgames.com You can't spell "progress" without an Ogre! ============================== From: Servitor@aol.com Subject: Missile Racks in Overruns > (Another option, in addition to the ones presented above, would be to only > allow one Missile Rack launch per Overrun combat, regardless of how many > rounds.) In games I run (including OGRE Macrotures) I don't allow Ogres to launch missiles in an overrun, period. I know the rules don't say it, but I believe that overrun combat is too close to use something as large as Rattler class missiles. If I did allow it, everything (including the firing Ogre) would have to undergo spillover fire as if it were a regular attack. The Ogre would suffer a 1-2 attack on EACH weapon and take 2d6 tread damage. Definitely a deterent to launching. (Although tempting if there are a lot of low defense units in the overrun...) Too simplistic? Sure, but I'm all about that... I don't have many problems with GEV-PCs loaded with HVY INF. But then again, the board game is harsh on them (lasers, towers, CRSMSLs, MK IV Ogres, etc.) while the miniature game is just now getting PCs available in abundance for both sides. Maybe I will eat cheese soon... For my site's next update, I've got a real gem. Long before GURPS OGRE was written, I wrote a tongue-planted-firmly-in-cheek article about roleplaying in OGRE. I sent it in (to SJ Games) as a joke. It got chuckles from the staff, but never saw print because I never finished all the sections. Hopefully, its still funny (in a "Paranoia" sorta way...) I should have it up around the end of the month. best, John Hurtt (Servitor@aol.com) -Yes, I'm a Game Geek. How did you know? -Please visit my website at: http://hometown.aol.com/Servitor/Og reindex/ogrindex.htm ===== From: Darren Breland Subject: Missile Racks in Overruns >From: Dave Morse > >So ... we need an official ruling on something so obvious I can't believe >it hasn't been covered before. > >When Ogres with missile racks are in overruns, do they get 1 missile >launch per /round/, 1 missile lanuch per /player turn/, or 1 missile >launch per /full turn/? If the latter, and the Ogre is being overrun, >does it have to hold its fire on a future turn, or did it have to hold its >fire on a previoius turn? Hi Dave, This isn't an official ruling, but I'll give it a shot. First we consult the Holy book of GEV c1978 ed: "6.134 Ogre overrun rules. Ogres in an overrun situation follow the above rules, except that: (1) An Ogre may fire a certain number of missiles per TURN. Therefore, if an Ogre fires its quota of missiles during overrun combat, it cannot fire more missiles either in another fire round of that overrun, in another overrun that turn, or in its regular fire phase that turn." First off, the Miniatures rule book explanation of missile launchers is a little vague and does lead to some confusion. I also spotted that description of "once per turn" and took that to mean any single launcher, not launchers as a whole. So... in my world that says an Ogre with the "one shot" racks can fire any number of missiles during an Overrun Round, but once they are fired they are gone for the rest of the game. An Ogre with re-loadable launchers (ie: Fencer) must keep track of the number of missiles it fires in Overrun combat phases. A Fencer could fire any or all of it's missiles in a single "Fire Round" of Overrun combat (which takes place during the Movement phase). You then make note of how many missiles it fired. If you fired all 4 missiles in the first Fire Round of Overrun then you would have none left for the remaining Fire Rounds of that Overrun, subsequent Overruns, or Combat phases of that Turn. Example: A PE Fencer overruns 3 GEV's and a HVY. Defender 1st Fire Round: Defenders take their shots the Fencer.. no effect. Attacker 1st Fire Round: a) Ram one GEV (note that the Ogre can only Ram ONE unit per Overrun combat PHASE) b) Fire 2 Missiles- vs- HVY and GEV - XX for both (dont ask why an Ogre would waste a missile on a GEV this is just an example.. :-) ) c) Fire 2x secondaries at the GEV.. XX result Ogre Moves remainder of it's movement Ogre fires it's 2 remaining missiles at targets of opportunity (say a SHVY or a juicy HWZ). I hope that makes it clear as mud. IMHO: The Overrun rules need some SERIOUS reworking, more for clarification for Ogres then for anything else. No single rule has been the subject of more debate in my games then the Overrun section. ============================== From: "Paul Chapman" Subject: Ogre Miniatures release dates > From: "Mark A. Siefert" > > > Other stuff in 2002: revetments, PE GEV-MCP, PE Cruise Missile Crawler, > > Combine Light Artillery Drone, Hovertrucks for both. > > So does that mean that the Ogre Macrotures and other related projects > are on indefinite hold? Macrotures will require a reliable, proven source of resin manufacturing. We're not there yet. We may be there in first quarter 2002, and I'll be able to schedule them for the summer, but I'm not confident enough in that possibility yet. > From: Dave Morse > Please hurry with the IV! Its a key piece, there are probably as many > scenarios for the IV as for the V. In the opinion of everyone I've talked > to, the old IV in January would be preferable to a cooler IV in July. Have you seen the old Mk. IV? The as . . . I mean _aft_ end is wide and flat, and lacks almost any detail -- which for an Ogre is saying something! Also, the details are all off center. Seriously off center. The fore hull is slightly better, but it doesn't look anything like the speedster its supposed to be. In a word, Yuck. > Cruise Missile Crawlers and lasers are also on my most-wanted list. Combine Lasers may be under your Xmas tree, as they ship in early December. The PE CMC just needs to have the masters cleaned up, but both the PE Lasers and the Combine CMC need sculpting work. All will be out in 2002. > Ok, I manually searched the SJ Ogre Discussion boards, and found nothing > on the artillery drone. Are you sure its there? "New Unit" or "General > Discussion"? Ahh, but did you check the Pyramid message board? That's where we like to do the majority of our playtesting. Paul Chapman Miniatures Division Manager Ogre Line Editor Steve Jackson Games paul@sjgames.com You can't spell "progress" without an Ogre! ============================== From: Sumnerd1234@cs.com Subject: Light Artillery Drones and other stuff. "SJ posted the LAD to the Pyramid discussion groups, but the article seems to have expired. -HJC]" How about sharing a little info with those of us who don't happen to subscribe to Pyramid? New Units & Weapons Extended Range Ogre Missiles Extended Range Ogre Missiles were originally developed by the Nihon Empire, for use at the extended ranges they usually engaged targets at. It's basically a modified version of the standard Ogre missile that gives up a little firepower for increased range. It has an attack strength of 4, a range of 7, and is worth 1 Victory Point for each missile expended. (Henry, I already know what you think about them, but I'd like to hear what someone else thinks.) Nihon "Ronin" Cybertank Using captured Combine technology Nihon production facilities were able to rush the production of an experimental "stealth" cybertank known by its Combine codename, "Ronin" to the field. Ronins were designed as raider units capable of conducting long term independent operations over vast terrain. They were first seen deployed against Chinese forces operating in Manchuria, but due to their extremely high production costs, less than a dozen were actually produced and deployed for field use. Nihon "Ronin" 3 Missile Racks (D4) 000 18 Extended Range Ogre Missiles (4/7) 000000 000000 000000 3 Secondary Batteries (3/3; D3) 000 10 AP (1/1 against infantry or D0 CP only) 00000 00000 60 Tread units: Movement starts at M4 00000 00000 00000 (Movement drops to M3) 00000 00000 00000 (Movement drops to M2) 00000 00000 00000 (Movement drops to M1) 00000 00000 00000 (Movement drops to M0) Due to its use of "stealth" technology, subtract 1 from the die roll of any attack made against it, with the exception of infantry overruns. Try using this sucker in my Rising Sun scenario and see how it turns out. ===== [And why not subscribe to Pyramid? Fifteen bucks a year isn't going to break you, now will it? Personally I'm feeling that Ogre support is a little scattered over the internet. If I behaved myself sufficiently to be on speaking terms with SJ I'd suggest to him that I move my operations over to Pyramid and the old style public Ogre Message Boards be shutdown also. It would concentrate the community of serious Ogre players so that the maximum energy could be directed at improving the products. SFBay_OGRE at yahoo groups and rec.games.board (.ogre?) would remain as the public interfaces to draw people into the community. ("Welcome to the village. We want information, information, information. Look out for Rover's treads.") -HJC] ============================== From: Dave Morse Subject: Ogre Mk III-B-B He he, I'm going to get smacked. By now nearly every Ogre has had a "-B" version proposed. We're running out of canidates. However, one Ogre that has no "-B" version is the Ogre Mk III-B! (it just so happens our El Wapo is the /reeal/ El Wapo). So without further ado: Ogre Mk III-B-B 120 VP - just like the vanilla III-B 2 Missile racks 8 Internal missiles 2 Main batteries 2 Secondary batteries 10 AP 48 treads, M3 The III-B-B was designed by the Combine during the missile rack fad of the early 2080s. The Mk III-B-B was to act as a leader for packs of Mk IIIs. Unfortunately by the time the missile rack was ready for mass production, the combine's Ogre fleet was so depleted that a "leader" would have been leading a company of one. Templates were shelved after the initial few units were built. Another small production run was done prior to the second invasion of Europe in 2091. Yawn. ===== [The "missile rack fad of the early 2080s" is one of those things I'm struggling against in the Ogreverse. It's another case of SJ writing about a long and complex development process that finally fields system X on Ogre Y then later we find that other nations (and often the same one as produced Ogre Y) had been fielding system X for years earlier. (It's not as bad as Star Trek yet, but ask me again after the psychic Ogres show up. "Highly improbable Captain.") So here's my current fix to preserve the French invention of the missile rack (They have to have added something to the Ogreverse other than bad cheese). 2071 The Combine fields the Rattler missile with the Mark III Ogre. 2074 Nihon and Israel field cybertanks with missile tank style batteries as they lack the plans for the Rattler. 2080 The Combine fields a "scout" version of the Ninja without the missile rack or stealth. The PanE captures the plans for this when the British Isles fall to them but have no interest in building an Ogre of this size. At the same time they capture the plans and begin production of the Marks I and III and the Rattler and partial plans for the Mark V. 2084 The PanE fields the missile rack equipped Fencer and the plans for the Rattler and missile rack become widely available on the black market. 2085 Nihon and Isreal start building new versions of their cybertanks with the purchased Rattler and missile rack plans. 2086 After a few "improvements" and other delays the Combine finally deploys their version of the missile rack with the Mark IV. 2087 The Combine finally produces sufficent missile racks to meet their Mark IV production targets and the "scout" Ninja is looking a bit dated so a new version of the Ninja is produced with Stealth, missile rack and self awareness. -HJC] ============================== From: Dave Morse Subject: Mk I - Superheavy not using same mechanics One thing I've never liked very much about the Mk I, is that its supposed to be smaller than a superheavy tank, Yet its incredibly much tougher than a SHVY. The "half life" of a Superheavy is around 8 attack factors. The half life of a Mk I, fully immobilized, all guns stripped, is 59. Then again, the 59 attack factor figure goes by reasonably fast, if you can overrun the beggar with (ideally) 8 light tanks. But I'm forgetting about critical hits. The half-life of a Mk I undergoing critical hit attempts is around 16 points, regardless of the chunk size of the attack. The crit system is decently designed, but still the Mk I lasts much longer than it should, for something with its hull size and armor thickness, both of which are smaller than the SHVY. Blowing a lot of crit roles can be the last mistake your units make. What about making them a little less digital (perhaps only on Mk I/IIs)? Here brainstormed systems for bridging the gap. ________________ System 1: criticals also do damage (ugly first thoughts) When a player declares a critical hit attempt, s/he designates a spillover component target as well. If the critical misses, the attack strength is quartered and applied to the spillover component. If multiple critical attempts are staged in the same turn, the spillover points on the same target can be accumulated and rolled later in the fire round. Example: two HVYs are taking on a Mk I. They both go for critical hits, with spillover target of the main battery. The attack seperately, and both miss. Each would then get a 1 point attack against the main, (which would fail) so they're pooled into a single strength 2 attack. Thus they have a 28% chance of blowing the ogre away totally, and a 12% chance of scoring the main. If they concentrated solely on the main, they'd of course have a 55.56% chance to get it. ________________ System 2: damage increases odds of criticals For every main battery, missile rack, pair of secondaries, or point of movement blown off an ogre, add one to any critical hit roll. ________________ System 3: the modifier for critting a Mk I is +4, not +3. Now 8 points will buy you a Mk III, just the same as the SHVY. The most elegant system, no? --Dave ===== [But the Superheavy has got an air pocket inside it for the crew to breathe, while the Mark I is a solid block of armor. -HJC] ============================== From: "Powers, Michael T1" Subject: Shaped-Charge Nuclear Warheads >How about a first-stage nuclear-pumped flux compression generator >that powers a transverse vircator to set up a teravolt electrical >field, followed by a second stage nuke to supply more plasma? Supply Officer: "...huh?" Weapons Salesman: "It blows up and kills the bad guys real good, okay?" Supply Officer: "Great. Gimme eleven gross." Heck, I'd think that the EMP effect of an electromagnetic field strong enough to direct a nuclear explosion would be as damaging as the explosion itself. You basically microwave everything within a few hundred meters of the blast. -- Mike Powers ===== [Speaking of nukes, here's something else to destroy your game. In GURPS Ogre armor is squared against nuclear explosions, so it takes a very large unidirectional nuke to blast through armor, but very large unidirectional nukes aren't all that big. (Kids don't try this at home!) One Kiloton Nuke. For a cost of one sixth of an armor unit any gun of attack 1/2 or greater or any missile attack may replace one SATNUC round with a one kiloton nuclear charge. One kiloton nukes are cheaper than SATNUC rounds, but there is some paperwork for the EPA notice. Range is unaffected, and the attack strength is changed to the primary target being hit as if it was one hex from a cruise missile explosion and everything else in the target hex (including the terrain) is hit as if they were two hexes from a cruise missile explosion. No other attack may be made against the same hex during the same fire phase (The one kiloton nuke must be the first and only attack you make against that hex on your turn, other than overruns) and even Ogres are insufficiently suicidal to launch kiloton level nukes into an overrun. Each armor unit should be limited to carrying at most a dozen or so kiloton nukes. (But issuing a few to every LGEV is fun!) One Hundred Kiloton Nuke. For a cost of one armor unit an Ogre Missile or Ogre Main Battery may replace one round of it's usual attack with the same warhead as carried by a cruise missile. Again the SATNUCs are more expensive, but the EPA wants to see a lot of paperwork for this one. This must be your first and only attack against any target within six hexes of the detonation point this fire phase due to fratricide effects. Needless to say you shouldn't ever use this. When asked why big nukes aren't allowed simply mutter something about "rules of engagement". -HJC] Henry J. Cobb ogre@sjgames.com Archives at http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 2001, by Steve Jackson Games.