====== Ogrethulhuween Digest, October 31st (Last: October 24th) ========
===== Ogre Results
From: "bbell1@insight.rr.com"
===== The Ogre Design Formula
From: "Henry J. Cobb"
==============================
From: "bbell1@insight.rr.com"
Subject: Ogre Results
--Quote--
As for D results, maybe your GEV got flipped over by a near miss
(exposing the weak belly armor) and you need to get the jack out? -HJC]
--End Quote--
I have always viewed the BPC armor as much more effective, even on smaller
vehicles.
A 'D' result indicates that the vehicle was smacked so hard that the crew
has suffered multiple concussions (or possibly the airbags deployed and it
takes time to detach them). Also less armored items on the vehicle may be
damaged (tread, fans, weapons, radio, etc.)
An 'X' result represents the vehicle has lost its weapons and the mobility
is messed up (tread disloged, fans bent, etc.)
A 'XX' result represents that the hull was breached. The vehicle is now
radioactive scrap.
-----
Brian Bell
-----
==============================
From: "Henry J. Cobb"
Subject: The Ogre Design Formula
Dag nab it!
Somebody's posted a point formula that gives the Mark-IIIB a greater value
than the Ninja.
OK, I didn't want to release it yet, but here's how to apply the point
formula for Ogres.
Let's start with the Mark I.
The formula for the Main Battery is:
4 * (6 + (1 + X/2 * 1.4)) + 2 * 4 * 1.8 * (6 + X/2 * 1.4) = 114.4 + 12.9 * X
Where X is the movement rate of the Ogre in inches.
The formula for an AP gun is:
1/3 * (2 + (1 + X/2*1.4)) + 2 * 1 * 1.8 * (2 + X/2*1.4)/3 = 3.4 + 1.08 * X
This assigns a weight to the AP gun that is a twelveth the weight of a Main
Battery and GURPS Ogre says that the weight difference is 34, but it
doesn't give the weight for the turrets.
But the Mark I has an additional weapon! It can ram for one die of damage,
once per overrun. This I count as a one-shot weapon, due to the self
damage and all, but the equivalent attack strength to average that amount
of damage is 10.
So the value of the ram is:
10 * (X/2 * 1.4) + 2 * 3 * 1.8 * (X/2 * 1.4) or 14.56 * X.
So each movement point for the Mark I has a total value of 14.56 plus 17.22
or 31.78 or about 0.88 VP per tread. (Rather than carrying over the
slightly changing value for each tread depending on the year of production
and hence the load it can carry in that year I shall simply set the value
of each tread as being 1 VP and let load factors limit the year of
production.)
So the total cost of the Mark I is:
Main Battery: 10 VPs
Four APs: 1 VP
18 treads: 18 VPs
For a total value of 29 VPs or about five armor units.
To derive the speed factor of an Ogre we need the total weight divided by
the total power.
Item cost weight Hardpoints
One tread 1 1 -
Four APs 1 4 1
Secondary 6 9 1
Main 10 12 1
Ogre Missile 3 1 -
Empty Tube 2 3 0.5
Empty Rack 6 9 1
So the stats for each Ogre come out to be:
treads power Hard- LPHP Year
Ogre Cost load per inch per tread points Introduced
Mark I 29 34 3 11.4 2 17.0 2060
Mark II 54 66 5 13.2 5 13.2 2066
Mark III 94 112 8 14.0 8 14.0 2071
Mark IIIB 114 132 8 16.5 10 14.7 2073
Mark V 149 174 10 17.4 14 12.4 2076
Ninja 138 99 5 19.8 7 14.1 2080 ?!?
Fencer 146 130 8 16.3 8 16.3 2084
Fencer-B 154 136 8 17.0 8 17.0 ????
Golem 124 133* 8 16.6 10 13.3 2086?
Mark IV 143 136 7 19.5 8 17.0 2086
Mark VI 214 216 12 18.0 15 14.4 2088
Doppel 209 215 10 21.5 16 13.4 2089
Mark VII 298 308 (15) 20.6 26 11.8 ----
LPHP: Total load divided by total hardpoint factors.
GURPS Ogre says that the Mark VII would start with a speed of four inches
or two hexes per turn! Hence my guess at 15 treads per inch comes to a
total of only 60 treads. (Why you would rely on Secondary batteries when
even your top speed doesn't allow attacks on GEVs with them is beyond me,
not to mention what a pair of Fencers would do to it...)
Note that the Golem's stats were only confirmed in 2086 so there is no hard
evidence that the Israel fielded missile racks before that date. (Also the
drone bays are not factored into its total load, but I don't know how many
it has.)
The Ninja's introduction year really sticks out, even if didn't have the
stealth technology (multiply its cost by two thirds if it didn't) simply
from the power factor for that year.
However if the Ninja was produced without the Missile Rack at first (until
it was proven on the Mark-IV) and simply had the rest of its armament then
it's load factor would be less than the Mark-V. And then you could assume
that stealth was also in development until 2087 or so. The cost for this
Ninja-Minus would only be 74 VPs (2 missiles in tubes, 1 MB, 2 SB, 8 AP, 5
treads per inch times 8 inches of move) and it could have been seen as a
scout replacement for the Mark-II until the stealth and rack technologies
were available. Then when the Mark-IV was deployed, the Ninja was obsolete
as a pure scout and so redeveloped with stealth and missile rack.
Note that this formula WILL NOT WORK for any Ogre with a starting speed
less than four inches or greater than eight inches.
Also note that the Combine at least was doing about the best that it could
do and you shouldn't assume that any Ogre bigger than the designs they did
produce was practical for any given year. Also note that the Ogre Missile
first appeared in 2071 and the Missile Rack first appeared in 2084 and
these probally could not be fielded before these years.
I've got a Javascript Calculator for this formula on my webpage if you'd
like to try it out.
Example: Battlecruiser Hood, or "Speed is armor".
Four Main Batteries
Eight APs
No Secondaries or missiles.
48 treads as 8 inches of movement times 6 treads per inch.
Cost: 90 VPs Load: 104 Power Ratio: 17.3
Same size as the Mark-IIIB with a load factor less than the Mark-V so no
reason they couldn't have built it by 2076.
I would imagine that this design would have a "Fencer-B" style turret on
each of the front and aft hulls. It uses it's speed and firepower to chase
down GEVs and avoid anything slower than it.
If you like you can send me your designs for different Ogre weapon systems
and I'll run a table rating the weight, cost and silliness of each.
I'll include my thoughts on Nihon tech and how that stacks up against the
Ninja.
Henry J. Cobb ogre@sjgames.com Archives at http://www.io.com/~hcobb
All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 2001, by Steve Jackson Games.