====== The Ogre Digest, September 29th (Last: September 27th) ======== ===== Ogre: Thoughts From: AvaheilDotter@aol.com ===== The Formula and high move + range units From: David Morse ===== Opinions on a game mechanic From: "Paul Chapman" ============================== From: AvaheilDotter@aol.com Subject: Ogre: Thoughts << It's the Igo-Hugo thing. I move and shoot everything, then you move and shoot everything. I've played other games, especially miniatures rules-sets that use a back-and-forth activation, either of single units (mostly naval games) or combat groups (ground games). >> Would only work in an all-armor or all ogre combat. Mixed, and it means the Ogre fires it's weapons before any of the armor does. Even if you would shoot first, it means 1 unit fires and then his Ogre empties its magazine on you... Ad Astra! Stan Leghorn ============================== From: David Morse Subject: The Formula and high move + range units > Dave Morse wrote: > > > Nihon Armor is an article that introduces stats for Japanese armor > > units. Whereas in the west the typical armor unit costs 6 VPs, in the > > Imperial army a typical armor unit costs 9 VPs, and has a few extra > > features. I think its a neat set of units, some interesting patterns > > emerge... > > ===== > > Hmmmmm.... crunching numbers on some of these units. > > N Lt Missile Tank: 1/3 * 3 * (8 + 6) + 2 * (4 + 6) + 2 * 2 * (4/3 +4) > = (14 + 20 + 21.333) / 12 = about 4.5 VPs. > > NGEV: 3 * (4 + 8 * 1.2) + 3 * 2 * (4 + 6 * 1.2) = 40.8 + 67.2 = 9 VPs > > Well at least somebody's been doing their math. All thanks to the Javascript calculator. :) BTW you might want to change it to allow D5 and range 9. If you do the math on the N Missile GEV, you'll see it comes in very shy of 9. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 7.5. Somehow they symmetry of the situation suggests the existance of the unit: Light Tank : N Light Tank : N Missile Tank :: GEV : N GEV : N Missile GEV where the difference between a western and nihon "main battle" unit is +50% cost, +1 power, +1 D, and the difference between a western and a nihon "missile" chassis is +50% cost, + 3/4-one-shot attack. However, I'm having trouble imagining that a 4-3 move, D2, 2/2 + 3/4-one-shot GEV belongs in the ogre universe, esp at 7.5 VP. It could get a 1-1 against a mobile howitzer w/o being fired on, and when the missiles run dry you still have what's essentially a 6 VP western GEV. I'm wondering the Holy Formula sufficiently takes into account a rule of thumb: units which can strike at 7 or more hexes are either expensive and slow (MHWZ, HWZ), or are Ogres. I wonder if the formula needs a tiny-coefficent term for strength*range*speed, or strength*range*speed*speed? ===== [Zap 'em with a laser tower is what I say to these tiny defense fast long strikers! -HJC] ============================== From: "Paul Chapman" Subject: Opinions on a game mechanic Greetings! I'm working on the Ogre Scenario Book, and have come across a problem with a mechanic. I'm fairly certain it was mentioned by Keith, but I don't recall any solutions. The scenario is called "The Black Knight." The premise is, using the basic Ogre map, two forces meet and do battle. The complication is the deranged Ogre sitting in the middle of the map. The Ogre switches sides randomly throughout the game. The author wrote in a mechanic involving "highest roll gets it." A few lucky rolls and one side will have a huge advantage over the other -- a little too random for my taste. My first reaction was to say, "each side takes a turn controlling the Ogre," but that seems a bit . . . un-random? Other alternatives I have thought of: --you only roll for control if you are not currently controlling the Ogre. You take control on a 5 or better, and get +1 for every round the other guy has had control. (bookkeeping heavy, and still the potential of trouble with lousy die rolls) --all targets in range have a chance of being fired upon (say, 4 or less). (this would involve a chart to determine which weapons are fired) --the side with the fewest remaining armor points controls the Ogre. (again, un-random, and requires more bookkeeping, but nice and fair) Any thoughts/comments one way or the other on any of these options? I'll be working on this over the weekend, so drop me anytime. Thanks! Paul Chapman Miniatures Division Manager Ogre Line Editor Steve Jackson Games paul@sjgames.com You can't spell "progress" without an Ogre! ===== [Assign the two sides the colors Red and Black. At the start of the Black Knight's first turn (after the two players have moved), shuffle a deck of cards and then turn over the top card. The rogue picks the closest unit of that color (dice if multiple units from that side are equally close) and goes after it, overrunning anything else in a straight line path (but will move a little bit over to avoid an overrun if it doesn't cost any distance) until it is within range of the target unit (firing at range at nothing else) and then fires at the target with everything it's got until the target is destroyed. Once the first target is gone, flip the next card over and go after the new target. If you want a less random "more fair" game, use fewer cards but always only reshuffle once all the cards have been cycled through. (For extra fun, use a nightmare chess or INWO deck! %-) But wait, wouldn't this make it the Black Jack instead of the Black Knight? (Oh well, nevermind...) -HJC] Henry J. Cobb ogre@sjgames.com Archives at http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 2001, by Steve Jackson Games.