====== Ogre Digest, August 26th (Last: August 24th) ======== ===== Click-base Ogre/G.E.V. From: BillA2720@aol.com From: goldman@visi.com (Goldman of Chaos) From: Lee Ajifu ===== Flunky says:Clicky-base, Oy! From: Servitor@aol.com ===== Virtual Miniatures From: Todd Zircher ===== Mines From: Pauljamesog@aol.com From: Sumnerd1234@cs.com ===== Nuclear "Grenades" From: Andrew Walters ============================== From: BillA2720@aol.com Subject: Click-base Ogre/G.E.V. << I would love to by the new Mech Warrior, neat figures, but collectible games are bad for you and I just can't use that system. Nice figures, though. I would love to hear all other opinions. >> Right now, I am working a second job part time and don't have time to paint, so pre-painted figures works well for me, and I am not paying a premium for someone to paint a few at a time. Collectable format games are expensive , but look at the cost of a Warhammer 40k figure or Battletech vs a Mechwarrior booster. The hobby has gotten expensive overall. I also get a kid like thrill poping open a booster to see whats inside. Collectable games can be bad because they can be addicting (will work for Magenight boosters),and if the game is flawed or a flashier game comes along your "investment" can devalue to worthless. I don't see Ogre or Gev going clicky-base because the game was designed to be simple and fast playing and the disable/ destroyed status works best for that. Also would you really wan't to start imposing firing arcs and facing on Ogres? (No more using the main guns on the stuff gnawing on the Ogre's hind end). :{) Now if they would take a starship based game (like Star Fleet Battles which bogs down the instant someone fires) that would work well. They could even do it in a non-collectable format where you just but the ships you want. Enough of my ramble. Enjoy whatever type games work for you. Bill Armstrong ===== [Step one: Fire main battery in front of the Ogre. Step two: Rumble into the fireball and invite the infantry to follow... -HJC] ===== From: goldman@visi.com (Goldman of Chaos) Subject: Click-base Ogre/G.E.V. > From: BillA2720@aol.com > > > << Here's a thought sure to provoke some flames aimed at me... > I wonder if SJ Games would consider licensing OGRE/G.E.V. to Wizkids to make > a "click-base" version? Since Mr. Chapman is bound to read this, I would be > interested in hearing his thoughts on the matter. >> > > The new Mechwarrior Dark Age game is N scale. How big would the box need to > be? :{) > > Bill Armstrong To scare my click-base gamer friends, I mounted the Ogre-Cthulhu MKV on a click base of a dragon for the game. It really disturbed them. Matt -- O O __ | \| O O /|\ -/- _ __\ O _\O |/ (/ O/ /\- /|\ / \ / ) / \ | /O _ O/_ _ O_ ^_ / \^_ )\ / \ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Matthew Goldman E-mail: goldman@visi.com Gallium--Arsenide: The technology of the future, as it always will be. Dr. A. Goldman, Dr. R. Goldman and Dr. E Behringer ===== From: Lee Ajifu Subject: Click-base Ogre/G.E.V. AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! NO!!!!!!!! I hope that was clear enough. ============================== From: Servitor@aol.com Subject: Flunky says:Clicky-base, Oy! > but collectible games are bad for you Uhm, and exactly what do I call a game that has resulted in me collecting a monsterous amount of minis of Ogres, tanks and infantry? :) Seriously though, I agree with every one of your points (and besides, Ogre/G.E.V. is already so simple that a click-base version really wouldn't simplify much anything, just make it different to some degree.) And you're absolutely right about players never marking their spot when they pick up a figure to "click" it. Very annoying. Of course, in my games of OGRE/G.E.V., my opponent is usually picking up MY figures to admire the paint job, and puts them back down just a leeeeeeetle bit back from where they should be... Yeah, forget the whole click-base version. Instead, when the OGRE Macrotures comes out, lets all buy them instead. And, yes, even with our original 1/35th scale Macrotures to play with whenever we feel like it (please don't hate me) I would still buy 1/60 scale (or whaterever scale they decide upon) OGRE Macrotures the moment they hit the shelves. best, John Hurtt (Servitor@aol.com) -Yes, I'm a Game Geek. How did you know? -Please visit my website at: http://hometown.aol.com/Servitor/Ogreindex/ogrindex.htm "Walk softly and carry a big stick" Personally, I prefer a taser. Lots more fun... ============================== From: Todd Zircher Subject: Virtual Miniatures > From: "David R. Crowell" > > For those who are interested in how a virtual miniatures game might work, > check out DBA on-line at www.fanaticus.org it is an Ancients miniatures game > that has been adapted to computer play with fully rendered armies. It plays > very similarly to the table top version. I would love to see something > similar for Ogre/GEV. I'm working on it. The primary visual differences will be the use of 3D models. You can leave the camera parked overhead for DBAOL style viewing, jump to an isometric perspective, or move/zoom/rotate the camera freehand. [Given the 3D API that I'm using, stuff like that is a snap.] I'm also going to play with a true line of sight calculator based on looking through the 'eyes' of a unit. Should be a hoot when all the peices come together. I've already got testbeds for 3D models and realtime chat working. But, I still need to write up some GUI elements, resource management, and some other logic besides crafting a slew of models for a number of generes. BTW, this isn't something that is going to happen next week. I'm right now in the process of finishing the rules for a space combat wargame called FOTS: Tactical Command. I hope to have that finished in month or so and then I can go tilt on the virtual miniatures project. [I really need to come up with a name for this thing. How does VirMin sound?] :-) -- TAZ ============================== From: Pauljamesog@aol.com Subject: Mines Another aspect of mines topic not covered in OGRE is the artillery deliverable ones. These have been around for some time, such as the 155mm FASCAM mine. Sure you may be able to deduce that mines have just been delivered to that location, but now you know that its mined you'll probably avoid it right? Just what the defender wanted... Paul ===== [Actually there's a mention in GURPS Ogre, but it's kinda flat. Here's some quick and dirty rules. Each artillery unit (MHWZ or HWZ) may be assigned up to six FASCAMs for a cost of one sixth of an armor unit per FASCAM. It takes one normal firing round (not overrun) to deploy a FASCAM, within the normal range of the carrying unit. FASCAMs can only be laid into empty hexes and enemy units within range of the straight line from firing unit to target hex may fire to intercept as per anti-cruise missile fire, but at a +3. Once laid, each FASCAM has a defensive value of three and is protected by terrain as an armor unit and is only destroyed on an X or better result. FASCAMs fire once when overrun with an attack strength of six and are then removed. -HJC] ===== From: Sumnerd1234@cs.com Subject: Mines >Where are the rules for Engineers laying minefields, rather than individual >charges? This is probably just my very liberal interpretation of the rules concerning Engineers. I based it on the capabilities of modern day Combat Engineer units, and that the rules state that Engineers have several other abilities other than the ones specifically listed in the test. I figure a squad of Engineers is probably carrying enough mines to mine one hex with six Antitank mines and two to three dozen Antipersonnel mines. Any additional mines would have to be purchased or stated as being available to the engineers in the scenario's set up. What do you think? Sound feasible? While I'm at it, check out what I've come up with for particle beams so far at: http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/board/article.cgi?2562 I'm still playing with how they will work against missiles. Also, what do you all think of board (orbital) weapons systems being used (hyper kinetic rounds, or missiles). The units they were fired at would have a chance to intercept the rounds in flight. Yeah, I know it would complicate things, but it's fun to play with. ===== [Charged particle weapons are no fun in such a dense atmosphere as ours. Yes, but how long does it take them to deploy the mines? Also that does seem like a bunch for the engineers to carry around, once you consider than an Ogre squad is only half a dozen suits. Each twenty man engineer platoon is followed by a hovertruck with 10 tons of cargo space for their gear, so that ought to factor into what they bring along. -HJC] ============================== From: Andrew Walters Subject: Nuclear "Grenades" A couple of times a year someone jokes about nuclear hand grenades, which can't be thrown far enough to avoid vaporizing the thrower. Then someone, often me, brings up the US's 50's-era nuclear grenade, the Davy Crockett. Well, I got tired of prattling on based on what I read in the eighth grade, and looked the darn thing up. The Davy Crockett was not a hand grenade, or a rifle grenade (as I believe I said). It looks like and is fired like a rifle grenade on a big recoilless rifle (oversized bazooka). The M388 projectile could be fired from either a 120mm or 150mm launcher, and looks like a watermelon with fins. The M388 can have a payload of conventional explosives, or carry the W54 nuclear warhead. It weighs 51 lbs, and has a range of 1.24 or 2.5 miles, depending on which launcher you use. The 120mm is a man-portable tripod deal, the 150mm is a jeep or APC mounted thing. The W54 is operator-selectable from 10-250 tons (*not* kilotons). Its minimum range was 1/4 mile, at which point a 20-ton yield would kill 50% of unshielded operators with radiation, though not blast. There are some other numbers on the web pages listed below, but basically I don't think you could use the W54's full yield with this delivery without killing all the users with the 120mm launcher, or most of them with the 150mm. At lower yields it was probably okay at longer ranges. However, due to the strange scale of this weapon radiation effects would probably out-reach the blast effects. Which is to say at most yield settings you would kill more enemy troops with radiation than with the blast, especially if they were in foxholes or tanks. The blast just isn't big enough or focused enough, and there's no fragmentation. There are far easier ways to get the same blast if you're going after vehicles or buildings, so you'd really have to call this a radiological weapon. For those who haven't already heard too much about it, here are pages with more details, and photos of the wretched thing: http://www.brook.edu/dybdocroot/FP/projects/nucwcost/davyc.htm http://www.atomicmuseum.com/tour/cw3.cfm http://www.guntruck.com/DavyCrockett.html http://yarchive.net/mil/davy_crockett.html Interestingly, there was also a variant of the W54 warhead, the B54, configured as a nuclear land mine. Right. A 150 lb "man portable" land mine. Smaller warheads were built later, and later ones are far more clever in their design. That's fun reading. Andrew ============================== List Moderator: Henry J. Cobb ogre@sjgames.com Archives for this mailing list may be found at http://www.io.com/~hcobb General online support for the OGRE game is at http://www.sjgames.com/ogre Ogre, G.E.V., Shockwave and other products mentioned here are trademarks or registered trademarks of Steve Jackson Games. All rights are reserved by SJ Games. This material is used here in accordance with the SJ Games online policy at http://www.sjgames.com/general/online_policy.html