====== Ogre Digest, January 29th (Last: January 18th) ======== ===== CANCON Ogre Demo From: "Alan and Carmel Brain" From: "John D. Gwinner" ===== basic research toward micronukes From: "Charles Barnett" ===== Laser Towers and the Horizon Effect From: "Gurskey, Robert J" ===== Dragon "Cyber"Tanks From: "Alan and Carmel Brain" ============================== From: "Alan and Carmel Brain" Subject: CANCON Ogre Demo 0900: Doors Open at Cancon, Australia's equivalent of Gencon 0930: Start first game of OGRE - Mk V scenario .. 1230: 20th person says "Ogre - I used to play that back in High School/College/Uni/the 80s...) .. 1240: Last of the flyers runs out (and I used a ream of paper....) .. 1915: Security finally kicks us out (doors were due shut at 1830) Stats: 5 Maximum Victories to the Ogres (Ogre gets CP and escapes back) 1 Marginal Victory to Humans ( 2 infantry, 1 CP left when Ogre immobilised 2 hexes from CP with only AP left - 2x6 yr olds playing, their father had to calculate the odds for em) 1 game called due to time. 5 Games Mk V - 4/1 1 Game Fencer-D vs a Mk-V sized defence (Fencer-D has 4 not 2 SBs) 1 Game "The Black Knight" - called due to time. BTW "The Black Knight" is a good scenario, actually quite subtle. Everyone who played had a lot of fun, wanted more games, I have another 20 who say they want to play tomorrow.... and it's a 3-day Con for the Australia day (July 4th Equivt) Long Weekend. Alas, I'm not able to give enough commitment to become an MIB, and have received no tangible help from SJG. But... they included an Ogre poster in the Scenario Book #1 that I got the day before the con, and that's helped heaps. FWIW all but one of the other Demo/Participation games scheduled for cancon are SJG products too. All done entirely independently AFAIK, no co-ordination. But it's worked well anyway, couldn't have worked better EXCEPT for the fact that the hucksters had sold out of Ogre stuff by mid-day of day #1. I'm awarding the one team that killed an Ogre a model of a Combine Mobile Howitzer each tomorrow. I didn't promise any prizes, but what the heck. Cancon Day 2 > Alas, I'm not able to give enough commitment to become an MIB, and > have received no tangible help from SJG. But... they included an > Ogre poster in the Scenario Book #1 that I got the day before the > con, and that's helped heaps. Today the local Chief MIB gave me a visit and was as helpful as humanly possible. The system works... Start at 0930. Another 6 games - one of which had to be a 3-a-side (I was going to say "slugfest", but actually it wasn't). 3 Mk III Ogres vs a standard anti-Mk-V defence, with a defending Mk V on the top row is actually very balanced, it was a cliffhanger. Eventually the guy who I'd already given the "sportsmanship award" to after his Mk III had been deliberately picked on by everything (Expert Advice was to concentrate on one Mk III - he drew the short straw ) managed to slowly creep up un-noticed with but 2 MP and 2 AP, and suddenly race for the CP, shooting it when reduced to Move 1, 2 Treads and 1 AP. A 9-year old with grace under pressure, able to endure unfairness and injustice and still congratulate opponents when they roll a 6 against him, AND win the game for his side... that's rare. Glad I met him. Gave him a spare Missile Tank I had, as an impromptu award. The other players in that one, all aged 8-10 were universally polite, and well-mannered. Intelligent too.. Other games - one against an umpire of a comp that was being run next door, who had to go every 2 minutes to give a ruling, then return. Another BLACK KNIGHT scenario, this time 3-player. And let's see, another 3, mainly 2 players vs 1 with me Umpiring, though I had a 2-a-side Mk V and a Mk III vs a Fencer and Standard anti-Mk V defence ... Finish at 18:00. Still one day to go, and I'm seriously questioning my own sanity in not just volunteering to do this, but spending so much effort preparing for it. The Table-Tennis Table Ogre Map is the star of the show though. I'd recommend anyone doing an Ogre demo/participation game get one if at all possible. Maybe SJ Games should have one made for them as a travelling roadshow? These Con reports are mainly of interest to anyone who's thinking about running a demo/participation game of Ogre at a Con. They are applicable to Cons in Australia, and may have differences from your own neck of the woods, so bear that in mind. But there are lessons learnt too. Day 3: Due to people having to leave early to get home (1000 km to Melbourne, 300 km to Sydney), and the great "Jedko Auction" where all the old unsold merchandise from 2 years ago is sold off at often ridiculous prices (some thrown to the crowd), the third day of Cancon is essentially a "Half day". We got in 4 games anyway. 2 Standard Mk V vs 20 Armour/30 infantry, 2 2xMk III vs 22 Armour, 30 Inf. I managed to barely beat a pair of 9-yr-olds, playing as the defender. 2 other players (both Ogre Grognards) took em on later in the same scenario (the 9yr olds had an Ogre-III each), and got creamed due to over-confidence. The kids cottoned on to the "sucker the defenders with one while the other sneaks around the back and hits the CP" and had great teamwork. I managed to stop both Ogres 2 hexes away from the CP, they didn't, immobilising one atop a Howitzer, but the other just came in and disposed of the CP with AP shots. Lots of repeat business - I unfortunately had to turn some away, the games were at a knife-edge and any reinforcements on either side at the time would have spoilt it for the existing players. Ogre is a game that is no respecter of ages: 8-yr-olds can, and do (after a bit of practice), beat much older players of equal experience. The very best of em beat older players with LOTS more experience. (Note to SJ games: include some prizes suitable for 10 yr olds - "Chez Geek" doesn't qualify. Include Ogre singleton minis in MIB prize packs. Also Ogre/GEV.) I got lots of thanks from parents of Future Wargamers for keeping the kids amused while Mummy/Daddy were playing WH40k or DBM or whatever. When my transport arrangements for getting the TT tables back home fell through 20 mins before the con closed, some of em volunteered to help, bringing a huge 4WD with a sturdy roof-rack from a nearby property. What was *really* good was that there was no apparent difference in humour, ability, or sportsmanship between the players, whose ages spanned 40 years. I actually didn't have to do anything... Things which didn't turn out so well: a) Too much for one person. Really. You need at least 2. I rather dropped the ball on day 3 - fortunately I had a lot of repeat business, and Veterans (with 1 or even 2 games under their belts) helped novices with the rules. b) Had we had more than 1 solitary colour poster in A4 size, I would have greatly exceeded my capacity to referee, due to demand. Cancon is a relatively small convention - maybe 400 people there. Over 40 of em played Ogre at one point, when they had byes or between games, or even while refereeing small competitions. Or just came to rubberneck. But there would have been heaps more with more publicity. Word Of Mouth did a lot, but takes time to work. c) Apart from the MIB-supplied prizes (may their Tribe Increase) that came in day 3, I gave out a few of my own unpainted minis, some to the only team that stopped an Ogre, some to the "Best and Fairest Player" ie sportsmanship award. Next time I should at least be able to give out 1 GEV, HT or MT Fig to every player. This "casting bread upon the waters" would translate into sales IMHO. But it's a bit costly for me to do it off my own bat, at something like $10 US per fig through Warehouse 23. I made a financial loss (the game was free) - but enjoyed myself so much I don't really care. Can't afford hundreds of bucks though. d) I was using old GW Space Marine figs for infantry. A lot of people noted that. I had brought along some of the unpainted Ogre Infantry figs as well - maybe it was the paint job, but everyone preferred the 5mm figs. It would have been even nicer if SJG had both 10mm and 5mm infantry available... or I may have to get some GZG or Irregular SF Powersuits, the GW stuff's too recogniseable and dilutes the effect. e) You can NEVER have too many flyers. I ran out, reprinted, ran out again, and was getting back maybe 80% of those I handed out (asking for them to be recycled). f) Transporting a Table-Tennis Table requires thought: have a backup plan in case transport arrangements fall through. And you *NEED* a TT table or equivalent to get the visual effect. Keep destroyed units on the board, marking em with the traditional dark-grey-cotton-wool smoke. Interesting Anecdote: On Day #1, someone asked if I would be interested in buying DeLuxe Ogre 2nd hand at a really low price - $60 (which is 1/2 price in Australia). I said yes, and bought it. On day #3, one of the people whose kids had played who had been unable to buy it at any of the stores asked to buy it. I sold it to him at cost. Then the guy who'd sold it to me, after playing a game, asked me if he could buy it back, and offered me a considerable profit on it.... $110 - which is the street price of DeLuxe Ogre - is still a big hit for parents though. We have few rich idiots who buy little Johnny a thousand dollars worth of GW stuff every month. Or even $100 worth. And you can count the number of gamers who drop more than $1000 at a Con on the fingers of one foot. Professionally painted 15mm armies I've seen for less than $300 (that's $150 US). All in all, apart from being far more physically exhausting than I'd bargained for ( 2nd-time players were teaching newbies, rather than me doing it on the last day), it went better than I'd hoped. ===== From: "John D. Gwinner" Subject: CANCON Ogre Demo > These Con reports are mainly of interest to anyone who's > thinking about running a demo/participation game of Ogre at a > Con. I do agree, but I have to admit that you've succeeded beyond this. My primary goal in joining this group was to do a computer graphic image of a 'real' Ogre (i.e photo realistic rendering, see the 'photo' section on the web). Your notes make me tempted to play. I'm 41, having played the original Ogre when it first came out and loved it, but I haven't tried to find anyone else in the area. I'm tempted to try and teach the game to my wife after reading your descriptions. Your play by play description is fantastic - all by itself would be a good incentive if posted somewhere on a web page. You should write this up and send to SJ to see if they would add it to the 'resources' link or something. == John == ===== [I suppose I could make some space on my io.com pages by erasing some of my naughtier fanfics, but this does seem like something that could be linked from http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/resources/ or setup as a special board at http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/board/ -HJC] ============================== From: "Charles Barnett" Subject: basic research toward micronukes is mentioned in a report titled 'Fourth Generation Nuclear Weapons'. A review can be found at: http://www.fas.org/nuke/hew/News/INESAPTR1.html While this is progress toward icky cybertanks, fission-less nukes also makes Orion nuclear-pulse spacecraft propulsion more acceptable, since most of the 'dirt' in a airburst of today comes from the trigger. Regards, Charles ============================== From: "Gurskey, Robert J" Subject: Laser Towers and the Horizon Effect Henry, a while back I was thinking about laser towers and the effect the curvature of the Earth would have on their range. I found a website which provided a formula for calculating the distance to the horizon based on the height about the Earth. This table summarizes my results. Height (m) Distance (km) Hexes Hgt (ft) 10 12.17 8.1 32.8 20 17.21 11.5 65.6 21.33 17.77 11.8 70.0 30 21.08 14.1 98.4 40 24.34 16.2 131.2 50 27.21 18.1 164.0 60 29.81 19.9 196.9 70 32.20 21.5 229.7 Column one is the height of the tower in meters, column two the distance to the horizon in kilometers, column three the distance to the horizon in hexes and column four is the laser tower's height in feet. The Ogre Miniatures book shows that the laser tower is 70 feet tall which is why I included the third row in the table. Obviously, something flying above the horizon is visible from farther away, but I figure a cruise missile is flying pretty low (perhaps less than 30 feet). If that is the case then you would add the first row distance to the actually distance to show how far over the horizon the laser tower could reach a cruise missile. I believe these figures would indicate that for the Last of the Red-Hot Coelacanths scenario, with the laser tower stationed at the extreme eastern edge of the fourth map (counting from the east), that the range of the laser tower wouldn't reach across the third map. Coelacanth cruise missiles would be immune to attack from the laser tower on the first two maps. The horizon effect also explains why Jam Screens only affect cruise missiles that are within 15" of them. Robert Gurskey ============================== From: "Alan and Carmel Brain" Subject: Dragon "Cyber"Tanks > Dragon "Cybertank" > > Armament: > 1 MB (Str 4, Rng 2, Def 4) > 6 SB (Str 3, Rng 3, Def 5) > 6 AP (Str 1*, Rng 1, Def 1) > Treads: 48 : Move 3 > > Cost: 50 ?? > Comments, Criticisms? > > ===== > > [The Dragon given in that scenario has one weapon system in common with > "standard" Ogres and that is the AP guns. Everything else is different. > -HJC] Treads are the same too. AP BTW is not for commonality with Ogres, it's for commonality with Super Heavy Tanks. This thing blurs the line between manned vehicles and Ogres. Remember, this thing is manned. It should - IMHO - be different enough to be distinctive, yet close enough so that it could be mistaken for a true Ogre. ===== [Form follows function. There is already talk about putting mini radar guided anti-missile turrets on top of tanks for point defense (See "Tank - Present, Future Ogre" in The Ogre Book) that act like the navy's CIWS, so maybe Ogres will be laid out with a hierarchy of weapons control. Each weapon turrent would include a few sensors and a little bitty computer (in order to track and correct the fire from this gun with the least possible communication lag time) and bigger guns are more closely under the control of the central "brain". So AP guns get general alerts from the fiber optic network and whenever a threat comes within view of their own sensors they blasts um. Missiles and Secondary Batteries are given specific targets and then direct their own fire onto the targets while the Main Batteries are under the direct control of the main brain to direct their fire at the weakest know spot on enemy Ogres and heavy armor for maximum effect. The speed of light puts a firm limit on the distance a weapon can be controlled from for a given reflex level so the Main Batteries are mounted as close as possible to the main brain, the secondaries are nearby, the missiles are off on the back chassis and AP guns are stuck on wherever they will fit. If true this would be a limitation on possible cybertank designs. -HJC] List Moderator: Henry J. Cobb ogre@sjgames.com Archives for this mailing list may be found at http://www.io.com/~hcobb General online support for the OGRE game is at http://www.sjgames.com/ogre Ogre, G.E.V., Shockwave and other products mentioned here are trademarks or registered trademarks of Steve Jackson Games. 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