====== OGRE Digest, November 16th (Last: November 12th) ======== ===== Opportunity Fire From: "Chris French" ===== Opportunity fire From: AvaheilDotter@aol.com ===== Strange long range fire rule. From: Daniel Gallant ===== BattleSuit From: eholmes ===== BattleSuit From: "virtualpkc" ===== VPs, "the Cisco method" From: stephan beal ===== BYOO: creating/editing appears to work From: stephan beal ===== Race for the tech lab From: David Barker ============================== From: "Chris French" Subject: Opportunity Fire > [Laser-designator-enhancing-coating? No -- laser-scattering-into-useless-beams-of-light armor. Think "laminate armor" from _Car Wars Tanks_. (I seem to recall reading of some group working on this, in order to defeat beam-rider mis- siles; can't remember where, tho'.) > If anybody has some good ideas for Opportunity Fire, I'd enjoy trying > them... > > -- Alvin Helms > wykan@siscom.net There are no "good" OpFire rules that I've seen. Every game I've played that had them turned into an overblown version of WW1's Western Front -- whoever moves, gets hosed by OpFire. Theonly units with a hope of doing anything are artillery units, which rarely move anyway; they plaster a given area, and the infantry and armor (if any) follow up. I'd sooner play chess. > From: "henry_cobb" > Subject: Strange long range fire rule. > Won't that put the terror of missile tanks back into the game, eh? The Infantry Line of Cruise-Missile Death will do the same thing to this attack as it does to CMs. Each squad gets a 15/36 (or 5/12) chance to knock down the missile; the missile never has a chance. Now you see *why* the thing wastes so much time evading. :) > Talking about it and actually achieving it are different things entirely. > Asimov was talking about colonies in space by 2000. We'd have had them by now if the Liberals hadn't blown the budget on welfare and pride programs. Heck, the technology used to put Apollo on the moon would fit comfortably into a PDA. (FCOL, the Space Shuttle Fleet uses 8 meg!) There will be space colonies -- but they'll be wholly-owned subsidi- aries of multinational corporations. (Think _Alien_.) And to tie this back to _OGRE_: Two words -- "Factory States". :) Realize that OGREs and AIs will not be swayed by public-opinion polls (if such are even allowed); the AIs will do as they deem best. If that includes new space colonies (with AI Overlords), it will be done. > [With that hungry looking claw and the thick clouds it looks more like > Ogrethulhu to me. -HJC] Reminds: Since SJG has canned publishing the game specs for the Ogrethulhu and its Spawn, does anyone know what those specs were? I want to run my Godzilla vs. Ogrethulhu game, damn it! :) CF ===== [The rules, such as they are, for OT are where they have always been. Here's the link to get to them. http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/playtest.html -HJC ;-] ============================== From: AvaheilDotter@aol.com Subject: Opportunity fire << One way this happens: Because you KNOW that the enemy unit will fire at you if you move into range, you simply DON'T move into range. And he doesn't. And you don't, and he doesn't, and nothing ever happens... This is particularly true when an Ogre is involved. Try the basic "Kill the Command Post" with the Opportunity Fire rule I just described above. If the Ogre chooses to stop just outside the range of the defenders and WAIT, you're in for a looooong game. >> Give the Ogre first shot due to cybernetic speed. Or apply a -1DRM to snap firing. But it will give MSL and HWZ units SOME reason to exist. Ad Astra! Stan Leghorn ===== [Using my Splitfire rules gives about the same effect without all the hassle of remembering who fired last turn. http://www.io.com/~hcobb/gev/scenario/foxhunt.htm -HJC] ============================== From: Daniel Gallant Subject: Strange long range fire rule. >> From: "henry_cobb" >> Non-Evasive fire. This sounds like a good optional rule to me! I'll have to try it out the next time I play. Daniel Gallant ===== [Let us know how it goes please. -HJC] ============================== From: eholmes Subject: BattleSuit Fellow GEV Jockies Can anyone give me details concerning the OOP SJG "Battlesuit?" What scale are the hexes? What does each counter represent? What kind of CRT was used? Are the _rules_ still available, either on line or photo copiable? Where might be a good source for a used copy of the game? Does the game map over to the GURPS Ogre manual? Thanks. Roll sixes, Eric Eric T. Holmes Arctic Force Command, North American Combine (ARTFORCOM) o +. | * . ' \ \\_/|\_// / ___/(o)|(o)\___ ####"""""""#### Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings. OGRE MKVI They did it by killing all those who opposed them. Make sure you've got your dog-tags with you! G. Briggs Win ruthlessly, lose gracefully, and always play the game with style. ===== [It didn't have hexes, each counter was a soldier or piece of equipment, the scale is hinted at in GURPS OGRE, the CRT was much more like Grav Armor than GEV and here's Paul's offical response about ripping off their stuff and offering it up on the net. And oh yes, Battlesuit, GEV and GURPS OGRE all strongly disagree with each other about the power of a battlesuited trooper's weapons. -HJC] ===== From: "virtualpkc" Subject: BattleSuit > What does each counter represent? A single trooper. > What kind of CRT was used? A sightly different one from the Ogre CRT. As a 'suit took damage, it was downgraded. Larger chunks of damage downgraded the suit faster. > Are the _rules_ still available, either on line or photo copiable? No. No one has permission to reproduce the Battlesuit rules, except SJ Games. This question will likely be moot in another 18 months. > Where might be a good source for a used copy of the game? Watching eBay would be your best bet this year. > Does the game map over to the GURPS Ogre manual? They're two _very_ different systems, with _very_ different levels of abstraction. [This has been an official message from Steve Jackson Games' Miniatures Division.] Paul Chapman Miniatures Division Manager Steve Jackson Games paul@sjgames.com ============================== From: stephan beal Subject: VPs, "the Cisco method" Hi, fellas, i thought this might be interesting for some of you: Everyone's familiar with The Cobb Formula, which calculates unit costs in "henries". Here's a formula which produces "ciscos", named after it's creator, Francisco Cestero (http://cisco.rootonfire.org). It only applies to Ogres but is much simpler than Henry's formula and gets "pretty close" to the published values for official Ogres. cost = 2 * (Tread units) cost += total VP cost of all equipment cost = 5.357 * cost / (10 - MP) So, as one statement: Ciscos = ( (2 * Treads) + (equipment VPs) ) * (10-MP) * 5.357 Armor Units = Ciscos / 10 Sample costs, Cisco AUs vs official costs: Mark I: 5, vs SJ's 5 Mark II: 10 vs (9 or 10?) Mark III: 16 vs 17 Mark V: 27 vs 25 (but i feel 27 is more appropriate for this beast) Mark IV: 27 vs 24(?) Mark IV: 37, vs SJ's 35(?) As you can see, it's not exact, but considering it's simplicity i think it does a pretty good job. ----- stephan@wanderinghorse.net http://qub.sourceforge.net - http://radioaqtiph.sourceforge.net http://countermoves.sourceforge.net - http://stephan.rootonfire.org "Attention is narrowed perception." -- Alan W. Watts ===== [And where do you get the equipment VPs? If you're using SJ's table, how do you add new gear? -HJC] ============================== From: stephan beal Subject: BYOO: creating/editing appears to work http://radioaqtiph2.rootonfire.org/?r_app=BYOO It needs a few touches, but appears to work. -- ----- stephan@wanderinghorse.net http://qub.sourceforge.net - http://radioaqtiph.sourceforge.net http://countermoves.sourceforge.net - http://stephan.rootonfire.org "Attention is narrowed perception." -- Alan W. Watts ============================== From: David Barker Subject: Race for the tech lab Henry Perhaps you and others on the Ogre Digest distribution list might like to try out a GEV scenario I have been working on. Any feedback gratefully accepted. Please see attachment Dave Barker ===== [Ack! A giant attachement for some strange application I don't have. Well, I've got something that can convert from that... -HJC] ===== RACE FOR THE TECH LAB By Dave Barker 9.07 Race for the Tech Lab This scenario represents a Combine raid into Paneuropean territory that reveals a more important objective than originally targeted. As the Combine ‘A’ company over-runs a Paneuropean headquarters, they discover that a nearby Tech Lab is due for imminent evacuation by train deep into safe territory. Previously held back, ‘B’ company is called up to help push for the destruction of the Lab. At the same time, the Paneuropeans realize the potential danger to the Tech Lab and rush reinforcements to the area. The race begins….. 9.071 Setup Use the GEV map. The defending (Paneuropean) player (white) gets the following: 9 strength points of infantry, 3 armour points and Command Post Alpha (D2, M0), which have to be set up on the land mass in the SE corner of the map. He also gets the Tech Lab set up in 2102 - represented by Command Post Beta (D3, M0) - which is defended by 6 strength points of infantry and 2 amour points (set up within 10 hexes of the Tech Lab). The attacking (Combine) player (black) gets 8 strength points of infantry and 12 armour points which enter from the South edge on turn 1. The attacker moves first. 9.072 Reinforcements The defender gets 10 strength points of infantry and 10 armour points entering from any North edge hex on turn 5. The attacker gets 8 strength points of infantry and 12 armour points which enter from the South edge 2 turns after CP Alpha is over-run. 9.073 Special Rules At the start of the game all town and forest hexes as well as bridges, road and rail hexes are intact. GEV sections 8.03 through to 8.05 should be used. Attacking forces may not proceed North of row XX09 until CP Alpha is destroyed – they need to achieve their first objective before worrying about other targets. On turn 4, the train enters from the East edge. It has to stop next to the Tech Lab, spend two turns loading the Tech Lab on-board, and then can resume its journey heading for the West edge. At this point CP Beta is removed from the map, and is assumed to be integral to the train. If the train is destroyed so is the Tech Lab. Due to the importance of its cargo, the train is armed with a 4/2 gun in each hex. These guns have no inherent defence strength – they share the same fate as the train. No shockwave units to be used. 9.074 Objectives and victory points Calculated simply from the fate of the train. If it exits off the West edge, this is a decisive Paneuropean victory. If the train is prevented from moving West by a destroyed rail road, but all Combine units are destroyed, consider this a marginal Paneuropean victory –presumably they could repair the railroad quite quickly. If the train is destroyed, this is a decisive Combine victory. If the train escapes off the East edge, this should be considered a marginal Combine victory. If the front half of the train escapes West, consider this a draw. 9.075 Escape Defenders may escape to the North side of the map, attackers to the South. The train may escape off the East edge, if the route West is blocked (but note the effect on victory in 9.074). 9.076 Advanced (Ogre) scenario Give the attacker an ogre Mk V instead of original attacking forces but no reinforcements. Defenders’ forces are unchanged. Note: I don’t think you should let the Combine forces use a Mk IV. Its extra speed and high missile quota is too advantageous. Give the defender an ogre Mk IV instead of its regular reinforcements, appearing on the same turn and place. Note: this may sound like a great deal for the Paneuropeans, but a single Ogre can only cover so much ground, leaving possible gaps for the inferior Combine forces to sneak through. 9.077 Scenario notes The attackers will rarely get through to the Tech Lab before it is loaded onto the train. Thereafter it normally becomes a race for the Northwest corner as the train tries to pick up speed, the Paneuropeans try to slow down the attackers, and the Combine forces throw everything forward. If one player is more experienced or is consistently winning this scenario, he/she can be handicapped by changing the entry turn for the train. A good defender might get his train entering on turn 5, giving the attackers a vital extra move closer before the sprint for the West Edge begins. Equally, an earlier entry turn would cause real difficulties for all but the best attackers. ===== [And while I'm thinking of strange rules, I've been looking at the SATNUC stats from GURPS OGRE and poking around a bit and it seems that if the OGRE rattler missile carried a cluster of the smaller SATNUC warheads rather than it's usual big nuke it could carry over 600 of them and that's enough to smother most of a square mile. Ogre Missile Cluster Warheads: Any Ogre Missile may be secretly designated at the time of purchase to have a cluster warhead. The missile is fired normally, but when it reaches the target hex it attacks every unit in the hex with a full strength (not spillover) 3 point attack. Each squad of infantry takes a seperate 3 point attack, resolved independently from the other squads it may be stacked with. Each Ogre takes a three point attack on one component of the attacker's choice. (So if five Ogres where stacked in a hex, each would take a single three point attack which could be on a different type of component for each Ogre.) Bridges and other structures take two separate three point attacks due to their large size. Town and woods hexes are converted into rubble after the attack. Cluster warhead attacks cannot be combined with any other attacks, but multiple cluster warheads could be fired into the same hex on the same turn, one after another. Cluster waheads cannot be used in overruns because there is not enough space for the submunitions to deploy. This same style of warhead could be carried by a cruise missile and would cause the cluster warhead effect in the detonation hex and the six adjacent hexes. -HJC] ============================== Send all submissions or mailing list changes or problems to ogre@sjgames.com Archives for this mailing list may be found at http://www.io.com/~hcobb/ General online support for the OGRE game is at http://www.sjgames.com/ogre Ogre, G.E.V., Shockwave and other products mentioned here are trademarks or registered trademarks of Steve Jackson Games. All rights are reserved by SJ Games. This material is used here in accordance with the SJ Games online policy at http://www.sjgames.com/general/online_policy.html