====== OGRE Digest, November 25th (Last: November 21st) ======== ===== Crowding out the LGEVs From: David Morse ===== Crowding out the LGEVs From: "Chris French" ===== Fixing the Mk. VI: The Rules From: "Paul Chapman" ============================== From: David Morse Subject: Crowding out the LGEVs > [Not really, LGEVs don't stack that often. > > At least not when the other guy gets to shoot back. > > Stack to attack then put one LGEV in each of the 30 hexes that are >range 5 from the target. -HJC] Then this doesn't have a lot of consequences from a game design standpoint, no? What OGREs need is a way to deploy boobie-traps at range from themselves, and force the LGEVs to run over them and blow up like popcorn. Ideally the large numbers of D1 LGEVs should be particularly disadvantaged here (Though I secretly remain skeptical if LGEVs are actually better than GEVs in european terrain) And while you're at it, please keep on coming up with suggestions to fix the brain dead MSL. ===== From: "Chris French" Subject: Crowding out the LGEVs > Do you think it plugs the "LGEV loophole"? I assume the "loophole" in question is this: > Stack to attack then put one LGEV in each of the 30 hexes that are > range 5 from the target. since I've never heard of it before. Couple stream hexsides and/or swamp hexes (or forest) puts paid to this tactic. "OK, sir, we're dispersing to -- WHO THE *&^%$#@! PUT THAT STREAM TH-- [FWACKOOM!]". Terrain -- the Trackslapper's Friend. CF [wondering about a game using the OGRE map, but allowing the defender to build canals leading up from the "south", and having the attacker use GEVs. Crunch, crunch, crunch.] ===== [Even if they have to stack two to a hex, LGEVs are still better than ordinary GEVs. See: http://www.io.com/~hcobb/gev/2000/gevmay28.txt for the numbers on this. And while you're looking for something fun to play with the relatives this Tanks-giving, why not playtest this... -HJC] ============================== From: "Paul Chapman" Subject: Fixing the Mk. VI: The Rules The Rules (in order of importance) #1: keep the Mk. VI balanced with the Dopp. #2: remain true to the Mk. VI's mission as a front-line slugger. #3: remain true to the Dopp's mission as a long-range striker. #4: create no new weapons. #5: create no new rules. #6: change as little as possible. #7: remain true to the canon descriptions published in G:O and OM. For a real fix, you'll have to violate a couple of these rules. #7 in particular is probably going out the window for 90% of the ideas. Breaking one Rule is expected. Breaking two is also expected, but less so. Breaking three (or any of the first 3 Rules) had better result in a freaking brilliant design. Following these Rules makes the Mk. VI-Cobb and the Cobb Dopp look good. A slightly modified version of each: Ogre Mk. VI 3MB, 6SB, 4MR, 12MSL, 78TRD, all weapons get +1Def [+6 treads, +1MR, -8MSL, new rule, 225] [violates #5, #7] Dopp 2MB, 8SB, 6MR, 24MSL, 60TRD [+3MR, +4MSL, 225] [violates #7] And some scenarios: Ogre Mk. V on Defense: Basic map, basic scenario goals, defender has Ogre Mk.V, plus 140 points. Duel I: Any map, 2xMk. III plus 25 points of armor. Duel II: Any map, Mk. V plus Mk. III. Ogre Raid: GEV map, Advanced Raid scenario (9.036), attacker has one Mk. VI, defender has 48 points of INF and 60 points of armor. Defender rolls for reinforcements as per 9.036 (once on even turns, and twice on odd). Give it a shot, and let me know. -- [This has been an official message from Steve Jackson Games' Miniatures Division.] Paul Chapman Miniatures Division Manager Steve Jackson Games paul@sjgames.com ===== [Edited from his comments elsewhere by permission. It looks like a decision might come up quickly for the Mark VI so I'm going to take some time to play things through this weekend. (While waiting for servers to install and other slow periods at work.) Note that this version of the Mk VI has only three points more total defense on secondaries and heavier, but is down 14 points of attack strength on the Dopp. But it's the way those defense points are spread around that could make all the difference. (D2 AP guns are just strange though...) -HJC] ============================== Send all submissions or mailing list changes or problems to ogre@sjgames.com Archives for this mailing list may be found at http://www.io.com/~hcobb/ General online support for the OGRE game is at http://www.sjgames.com/ogre Ogre, G.E.V., Shockwave and other products mentioned here are trademarks or registered trademarks of Steve Jackson Games. All rights are reserved by SJ Games. This material is used here in accordance with the SJ Games online policy at http://www.sjgames.com/general/online_policy.html