====== Ogre Digest, October 18th (Last: October 17th) ======== ===== _OGRE_ opinion wanted From: White Rat ===== Militia Equipment From: "Chris French" From: "Dan Tulloh" ===== SHVY vs LT From: David Morse ===== Idea: OGRE Merkava From: "Chris French" ===== The mighty mk3 vs. fencer From: AvaheilDotter@aol.com ===== lgevs From: "Louis Wardlaw IV" ============================== From: White Rat Subject: _OGRE_ opinion wanted > From: "Chris French" (Funky terminators in OGRE scenario deleted to save space) > Is this too over-the-top for _OGRE_, or does it seem reasonable? Too over-the-top for *my* take on the OGREverse, but obviously YMMV. I like the idea of the BOPPERS. They're about the size of a subcompact car, they're not very smart at all (I would expect INF to mop up BOPPERS easily), and they're entirely nonhumanoid, thus dispensing with worries about being mistaken for people. Ratty ============================== From: "Chris French" Subject: Militia Equipment > [Actually as you can see in GURPS OGRE, the flying drones are a > robotic "infantry" force. From their weapons and equipment they seem > designed mostly to hunt down infantry. Exactly. The drones are OGREverse "ped-shredders" (I'm a long- service Car Wars player). I was thinking of something in the T-100 vein -- in _Terminator_, bare-metal T-100s are seen wandering the battlefield, not attempting to infiltrate human lodges, but simply shooting anything that moves. Limited AI (more like the "lethetic intelligences" in Gerrold's _War Against The Chtorr_ -- enough to make simple tactical decisions), not a full Descartes package -- "I think I think, therefore I think I am, I think", and encased in battle- suits (so as not to scare the meat infantry to death!), with an OGRE for a Unit Battle Director (read "Operation Desert Fox" in _Bolos: Honor of the Regiment_).These guys can take on armor or OGREs, and show no panic at all. I envisioned the Vatican Guard employing this, as the Church Of Rome would be very keen on having troops who were both powerful and absolutely loyal.... (Cybernetic Jesuits: Holy....) > I'm working on an article about GURPS OGRE weapons and equipment for > infantry. At the moment I'm designing gear for militia and have settled > on having one man in each squad carry a "battle computer" that extends a > sensor periscope above the trench to acquire targeting information to hand > off to the guys with the missile launcher tubes. Was watching Discovery channel the other night -- they had a system like you describe that simply attaches to a trooper's rifle. The computer processor is backpack-sized, but with Moore's Law in effect, in 50 years it'll be unnoticeable. Then *every* trooper becomes a prospective FO. > (Gotta remember to > include shovels for the MIL so they can save everybody else the trouble of > digging their graves...) Having played _Battlesuit_ (and needing to find my copy, blast it!), a horde of militia is not to be taken lightly, esp. on the defensive. > Naturally the first squad to call their battle computer "Orac" is > going get a visit from a cruise missile. -HJC] "Center". Read Drake and Stirling's _The General_. (I wish I could make this read in all-lower-case bold printing.) CF ===== From: "Dan Tulloh" Subject: Militia Equipment > I'm working on an article about GURPS OGRE weapons and equipment for > infantry. At the moment I'm designing gear for militia and have settled > on having one man in each squad carry a "battle computer" that extends a > sensor periscope above the trench to acquire targeting information to hand > off to the guys with the missile launcher tubes. (Gotta remember to > include shovels for the MIL so they can save everybody else the trouble of > digging their graves...) This isn't as far-fetched a notion as you might think, Henry. We're gaming this kind of capability for the US Army right now. > Naturally the first squad to call their battle computer "Orac" is > going get a visit from a cruise missile. -HJC] I dunno .... Ogre Relay Computer has a nice ring to it. Dan ===== [ Sounds like an ORC to me! -HJC] ============================== From: David Morse Subject: SHVY vs LT > Could you please elaborate on that a bit? i'm not > contradicting you, but i > don't remember reading anything about inf riding > other units in Battlefields, > except for the notes about militia. Additionally, > i'd be very curious to hear > how an LT with hitchhikers can match the firepower > of an SHV (i missed that > thread, apparently). Henry, and I, are referring to Ogre Minis rules. MIL on O. M.s are totally different critters - must be related to mice, 'coz they're cheesey. I resent the accusation of that I want a SHVY to win a battle with LT. I'm rooting for the LT, dude! At 15 VP you can afford to dump the MIL entirely and just get 5 LTs. They will almost certainly beat the shvy. No such luck at 12 VP, I might add. ============================== From: "Chris French" Subject: Idea: OGRE Merkava After the combat debut of the Israeli Golem cybertank, one of the units was left with a smoking hole where its missile racks had been. The Israeli high command, being believers in the School Of Keep- ing The Infantry With The Armor, had complained that the large number of tanks lost in the fight with the invading forces had been the result of the infantry not being able to stay with the armor; they wanted to know if a Golem could be modified to carry infantry in- ternally, copying a practice that had used during the previous cen- tury. The request came only after two of the Golem's racks had been replaced; the engineers had to work quickly to rig the third bay to carry and deploy infantry. The next time the Arab Confederation came calling, they would receive a nasty surprise.... In game terms, the above idea swaps one missile rack and three missiles on a Golem tank for a deployment door and three infantry units. The Golem can only deploy or recover one IU per turn, and only if the deployment door is working (the door has the same D value as a missile rack). Thoughts, comments, questions? CF ===== [See http://www.io.com/~hcobb/gev/1996/gevfeb05.txt for my take on transporting infantry in Ogres and http://www.io.com/~hcobb/gev/1998/gevdec07.txt for a more detailed analysis. -HJC] ============================== From: AvaheilDotter@aol.com Subject: The mighty mk3 vs. fencer << I have seen the mk3 in action many times and have yet to be really impressed. Sure it can drive over enemies after it has lost its guns, but it really lacks killing power compared to the fencer. Does anybody else think the fencer is a little too suprerior to the standard mk3? >> It is the lack of missiles that dooms the MK3 to second rate. However, it is not bad as a screen unit for the 4 or as a protector for an artillery position. And there is the 3-B which adds an MB and two MSL... Ad Astra! Stan Leghorn ============================== From: "Louis Wardlaw IV" Subject: lgevs I think lgevs are kind of the lame unit of gev. My friend and I addopt the following house rule to make them more worthwhile. Not that they are bad, but they are really only there to be shot. How about making them move 5/4 and giving their popgun a range of one. It works out in the formula, at least when I did it. Louis J. WardlawIV Postbus 12600, 2500 DJ Den Haag, Neiderland ===== [Well a pair of LGEVs is already "better" than a GEV (see http://www.io.com/~hcobb/gev/2000/gevmay28.txt for details) and this change makes them even nastier. By the formula, a conventional LGEV is 3.00 VPs, but your version is calculated to be worth 3.43 VPs. The difference is that the holy roman cobb formula values GEV movement as being worth 20% more than GEV range. There is a good reason for this. A conventional LGEV can only attack 8 hexes per turn, without the road bonus. True, it has to overrun every hex along the way, but there's no reason it shouldn't. As an example of the mayhem that LGEVs can cause, let's look at what even the standard kind can do in the clear. Six LGEVs use their first shot to hit two out of three Heavy Tanks, at least disrupting one 8/9ths of the time, then they either pull back or go forwards to overrun the survivors. The two overruns will cost only one LGEV 78% and 67% of the time. So most of the time they only lose 6 VPs to take out 18 VPs. Now, in the conventional OGRE boardgame (which is somewhat lacking in LGEVs...) LGEVs aren't that hot, but in Shockwave or especially the current Ogre Minis they're rather effective. Now here's another article on the coming war between the USA and Europe. http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2002/11/kupchan.htm -HJC] ============================== Send all submissions or mailing list changes or problems to ogre@sjgames.com Archives for this mailing list may be found at http://www.io.com/~hcobb/ General online support for the OGRE game is at http://www.sjgames.com/ogre Ogre, G.E.V., Shockwave and other products mentioned here are trademarks or registered trademarks of Steve Jackson Games. All rights are reserved by SJ Games. This material is used here in accordance with the SJ Games online policy at http://www.sjgames.com/general/online_policy.html